Origins of Atarashii Naginata

[Jakob Ryngen]

Hello,
I have heard that Atarashii Naginata is a reconstruction of the Mombusho forms from 1943. Does anyone know more about the Mombusho forms and how like they are the Shikake-ooji Wasa and Zen Nihon Kata of Atarashii Naginata?

[R A Sosnowski]

I have heard that Atarashii Naginata is a reconstruction of the Mombusho forms from 1943. Does anyone know more about the Mombusho forms and how like they are the Shikake-ooji Wasa and Zen Nihon Kata of Atarashii Naginata?

According to Ellis Amdur in his essay "Women Warriors of Japan" from his anthology Old School: Essays on Japanese Martial Traditions, the Mombusho Seitei Kata (Standard forms of the Ministry of Education) were created by Sasakida Yaeko of the Tendo Ryu and others as a way to train large groups of school girls on an intermittent basis in a simple set of waza that would not interfere with Koryu training. Unlike most standard Koryu Kata, which emphasized Naginata vs. Tachi, these emphasized Naginata vs. Naginata.

When the AJNF was forming in 1953, the Mombusho Seitei Kata were adopted as the first level of forms (up to Sandan) with some minor modifications, and are now known as Shikake-Oogi.

The second level of forms, the Zen Nihon Naginata Kata, which are learned at the Sandan level, are derived primarily from Koryu Waza, primarily Tendo Ryu and Jikishin-kage Ryu Naginata-jutsu.

HTH.

[Jakob Ryngen]

Thank you for the information! That brings me to ask another question.
While cuts in koryu often are aimed at unprotected parts of the body, almost all strikes in Shikake-ooji Wasa are aimed at the Datotsu-bu in shiai. The exception is the do strike to the back and the ebu-thrust to the do. Have these strikes ever been Datotsu-bu in Mombusho shiai or in early Atarashii Naginata?

[R A Sosnowski]

Originally posted by Jakob Ryngen
Thank you for the information! That brings me to ask another question.
While cuts in koryu often are aimed at unprotected parts of the body, almost all strikes in Shikake-ooji Wasa are aimed at the Datotsu-bu in shiai. The exception is the do strike to the back and the ebu-thrust to the do. Have these strikes ever been Datotsu-bu in Mombusho shiai or in early Atarashii Naginata?

Shikake-Ooji are referred to "Oyo Waza" or "applied techniques" rather than "Kata" (which refers to the Zen Nihon Naginata Kata only); the purpose of S-O is to emphasize the Datotsu-bu in Shiai.

I don't know about the Do-uchi, but I do know that the Ishizuki thrust to the Do is a modification from the original forms. The original target was the Nodo or throat, but this was changed for safety reasons.

I had also heard that there was a thrust to the Suigetsu at some point, but given the structure of the Do, it was not very practical (hard for the Shimpan to judge a clean score), and it was unsafe (sliding off the Do and into the shoulder or the throat under the throat-guard).

If some one else has this documented, I would like to hear about it. There are my recollections from conversations several years ago.

I also seem to recall that recently the INF had removed the Ishizuki Tsuki from Shiai as a legitimate scoring Waza for safety reasons.

HTH.

[Jakob Ryngen]

Yes, Ishizuki Tsuki in Shiai was removed last year. It is still in the Illustrated Naginata, though.

The Do-uchi to the back is strange in Shikake-Ooji if it ever was a Datotsu-bu. Given that players did shiai in with a full oak naginata in the early days it must have been very dangerous if it ever was done :hurt:. The Tsuki to the Suigetsu however would be a safe way for beginners to train Nodo Tsuki.

Regarding the ZNN Kata, they are said to be made out of Tendo Ryu and Jikishin-kage Ryu. I do recognice the Kamae (with small modifications) from Tendo Ryu but many strikes are at Datotsu-bu here as well. Is this from Jikishin-kage Ryu? The very little I know from Tendo Ryu is that Tsuki is done with the backhand at solarplexus (ichimonji no midare) but it is executed more from below in ZNN Kata (ippon-me). Is this from Jikishin or is it an adaption for Atarashii Naginata? It would be very interesting to know.

[R A Sosnowski]

Originally posted by Jakob Ryngen [SNIP]
Regarding the ZNN Kata, they are said to be made out of Tendo Ryu and Jikishin-kage Ryu. I do recognice the Kamae (with small modifications) from Tendo Ryu but many strikes are at Datotsu-bu here as well. Is this from Jikishin-kage Ryu? The very little I know from Tendo Ryu is that Tsuki is done with the backhand at solarplexus (ichimonji no midare) but it is executed more from below in ZNN Kata (ippon-me). Is this from Jikishin or is it an adaption for Atarashii Naginata? It would be very interesting to know.

I have no knowledge about the Kata in Jikishinkage Ryu. Neither have I begun learning the ZNN Kata.

However, I do know a little something about Tendo Ryu. First, the majority of the Kata are Naginata vs. Tachi; there are no Naginata vs. Naginata Kata. In waza used in ZNN Kata, they would have to be modified for Naginata vs. Naginata.

The particular movement you mention in the first TR Kata is not a Tsuki in the conventional sense. In the final move of Ichimonji no Midare, the naginata has engaged the bokuto (monouchi to monouchi), sliding down the blade (shinogi to shinogi) to the tsuba (TR bokuto have a large, thick leather tsuba to receive this, and Uchi-tachi wears Naginata-style Kote); the naginata blade is then turned sideways and locks the tsuba of the bokuto in place at about the tanden level - the hand position reinforces this lock. Advantage naginata.

Uchi-tachi has no option but to retire; Shidachi only needs to move forward (analogous to Morotezuki, the two-hand thrust, in Ropponme of the Seitei Iai Gata) to pierce Uchi-tachi's tanden, but this does not happen as part of the Kata. This ending occurs in the first four of the eight Shoden-level Kata.

HTH.