The gateless gate.

[Light Samurai]

How many of you read the gateless gate? How many of you actually try to answer it? I'm trying to answer it, and am currently on Echu's three calls. Just wondering if some people here read Zen stuff.
Peace and Love.
PS. Tell me what case# and the name of it that your on ^^

[Light Samurai]

You can find a online version here: http://www.terebess.hu/english/gateless.html

Peace, love, Metta, Shanti, etc.

[ZealUK]

I've read a few Zen texts out of interest. I don't purport to be a Zennist or Buddhist, I just wanted to find out more about Zen.

By far the clearest were the sermons of Bankei. I recommend you read "The Unborn" by Norman Waddell.

It seems koans are actually fairly advanced practice, as they are not supposed to be solved using cognitive logical thought.

[Light Samurai]

I've read a few Zen texts out of interest. I don't purport to be a Zennist or Buddhist, I just wanted to find out more about Zen.

By far the clearest were the sermons of Bankei. I recommend you read "The Unborn" by Norman Waddell.

It seems koans are actually fairly advanced practice, as they are not supposed to be solved using cognitive logical thought.
This is very true. I'll look into the book, as I have many to buy. If koans are advanced practice, what would be the basics? I don't have a Zen sensei.
Peace.
EDIT: To me, it seems that in the Rinzai tradtion, you start working on the gateless gate right away, through the numbers. In the Soto sect, it is different.

[don don]

I've got a really good book on koan. I know it's good 'cause it's got all the answers in the back.

[ben]

In Zen, the basic practice is sitting. Learn how to sit on a cushion and meditate. Koan cannot be chosen, let alone practiced without a teacher. You must have a teacher who can verify whether you have "answered" the koan.

Do you know the story of the young monk (maybe your age) who saw someone answer a koan by holding up one finger? He thought that seemed a cool way to answer so he started going around answering everyone's questions this way. One day when he had "mondo" (Zen interview) with his teacher, his teacher asked him whatever koan he had been assigned to work on (probably Joshu's "mu", nearly always the first koan given). The boy of course held up one finger. His teacher quickly pulled out a tanto and cut the finger off. Whereupon the boy had a realisation...

Answering a koan is a life-and-death proposition. Keep up your study!

b

[ben]

Zen is no more able to be self-taught than kendo. Reading about it is good. Finding a good teacher is infintely better.

b

[Light Samurai]

In Zen, the basic practice is sitting. Learn how to sit on a cushion and meditate. Koan cannot be chosen, let alone practiced without a teacher. You must have a teacher who can verify whether you have "answered" the koan.

Do you know the story of the young monk (maybe your age) who saw someone answer a koan by holding up one finger? He thought that seemed a cool way to answer so he started going around answering everyone's questions this way. One day when he had "mondo" (Zen interview) with his teacher, his teacher asked him whatever koan he had been assigned to work on (probably Joshu's "mu", nearly always the first koan given). The boy of course held up one finger. His teacher quickly pulled out a tanto and cut the finger off. Whereupon the boy had a realisation...

Answering a koan is a life-and-death proposition. Keep up your study!

b
Thank you very much ben :p I'm glad you helped in such way.

[GoldenShinai]

How many of you read the gateless gate? How many of you actually try to answer it? I'm trying to answer it, and am currently on Echu's three calls. Just wondering if some people here read Zen stuff.
Peace and Love.
PS. Tell me what case# and the name of it that your on ^^
Yes, I have been trying to answer it, and have had no luck at all.....I still can't answer that first damn koan...

[tanueirin]

Not to be flippant, but I saw the thread of this title and thought "A-ha! It's a force-field, of course!" (Too much Star Trek, methinks...)

I admire Zen concepts but am too lazy and not selfless enough to implement them :)

[Vortex]

I see that once again.. I have much reading and thinking to do in my future...

[Light Samurai]

Yes, I have been trying to answer it, and have had no luck at all.....I still can't answer that first damn koan...
I think you solved the first one. In fact, I'm sure you have. But that's a illusion, you never truly grasp anything, your always learning.

[GoldenShinai]

I think you solved the first one. In fact, I'm sure you have. But that's a illusion, you never truly grasp anything, your always learning.
Yes, with a lot of help from someone *cough *you *cough

[gsx1100s]

Q. What is this?
"If you have some ice cream, I will give it to you.
If you have no ice cream, I will take it away from you."


A. An ice cream koan.
:wink: :)

cheers Michael

[Donkey]

Zen is no more able to be self-taught than kendo. Reading about it is good. Finding a good teacher is infintely better.
I've read about Zen a bit as well as Buddhism (I realize they are not the same thing) and I was inspired to begin sitting and meditating on my own. The one thing I truly admire about Zen is the concept that a man has everything he needs already within him. Maybe having a teacher is great, but to say it cannot be self-taught, I believe, is to put a limit on it and as far as I understand, Zen has no limits. Besides, who figured it out in the first place?

Since this is a kendo forum, I feel obligated to say something about kendo. I certainly believe that zazen goes a long way in kendo by keeping the mind free of distractions- that really helps me out alot when I can manage to achieve that during practise.

I am neither kendo or zen master...these are just my 2 cents.