family crest sticker

[nothing]

If I knew the term for the familily crest sticker you placeon your DO I'd do a search.. so don't jump on me for posting this thread...

We all know the small sticker that goes on the do.... I was told that it is often a family crest of sorts... does anyone know where to get a costom one made?? As I am not Japanese.. I know my family name will not be easy to find.. I have my family crest.. and want to have it made...


help anyone??

[Vortex]

The crest you are speaking of is called a "Mon" or "Kamon".. As for where to get them, that I do not know.. But atleast I could get you started off with the name.

[nebosuke]

Since your family name is not Japanese, looking for kamon will not be much help. Probably the cheapest and easiest thing to do is get a custom cut vinyl sitcker, which you can get almost anywhere including booths at most shopping malls. You'd have to provide a properly prepared vector file, or pay them to do it for you.

However, it may not be all that durable on your do, but at least where they go on the do is not a regular point of contact, so it might last fairly well. Should be cheap enough to replace anyway.

[binni]

Speaking of crests, how long do you think one should train under a sensei before asking permission to wear his family kamon?

Also, are there family crests for Chinese surnames? If so, what are they called and could they be used on the do?

[enkorat]

I spoke to Eguchi regarding kamon once, and their reply was that if one was to have a custom kamon done, it would be "very expensive".

As we're talking about the regular sticker being $6, the deluxe sticker being $12, a paint job on bogu being $90 dollars... well you can interpret for yourself what the meaning of "very expensive" would be.

You can always ask a bogu retailer for the xerox sheet of the already available ones, there aren't that many of them. As to the meaning of them, I imagine that its a personal issue. I have one mostly because its my father's, and is part of my family's 200 year history. My sister's is actually from my mother's side of the family. The way they decend across genders is something I'm not too clear on....

There are a few chinese character mon, mostly from either families who originally came from china, or japanese who adopted one when things of chinese origin were in vogue.

As for asking a sensei's permission as to when you can put it on, I don't know if its something which is required. It has no significance in terms of ranking or position (at least that I'm aware of). It merely identifies your gear as your own in a traditional way, which becomes a big issue when you're at a tournament and all of a sudden there are a hundred sets of bogu that look like yours. That being said, I personally would be uncomfortable wearing the mon of a famous historical family if you were not descended from them. There are plenty of others and variations to chose from...

As is the standard disclaimer in all informational posts on this board, you should ask your sensei, as regional differences in rules and nationalities may come into play that I am not aware of.

[mark]

As for asking a sensei's permission as to when you can put it on, I don't know if its something which is required.... I personally would be uncomfortable wearing the mon of a famous historical family if you were not descended from them...

I have heard of situations were it was a very very big deal! (Getting kicked out of club big deal!)

If you wear your sensei's Mon you not only need his permission, but you should also wait until sensei suggests it! You are being adopted into his/her martial family, sensei will evaluate your character in addition to your ability and promiss.

If you have a family Mon, I am not sure what the process is- do you earn your sensei's mon or do you wear your family's? I have never seen anyone wear both. If your sensei does not have a mon, you will probably get permission to wear your own. I don't know if there is still anymosity between Japanese clans.

If you create your own Mon, and stick it on, it would be no different than adding your signature, a happy face, or some other tag to the front of your DO. Most people mark their equipment on the back. If you want a spiffy do why not pick one of the great colored ones? :cool:

[Lockie Jackson]

Speaking of crests, how long do you think one should train under a sensei before asking permission to wear his family kamon?

Also, are there family crests for Chinese surnames? If so, what are they called and could they be used on the do?

Assuming you are not a member of your Sensei's family, why would you want to do that?

[enkorat]

I have heard of situations were it was a very very big deal! (Getting kicked out of club big deal!)

If you wear your sensei's Mon you not only need his permission, but you should also wait until sensei suggests it! You are being adopted into his/her martial family, sensei will evaluate your character in addition to your ability and promiss.

Ah sorry, misread the post. Yes wearing the sensei's mon without permission would not be good...

[joekc6nlx]

If you were so honored as to be "inducted" into your sensei's family, you would then be responsible for maintaining the honor of his/her family, and that's a pretty tall order for someone to endow that much trust in a person who's not related by blood or marriage.

There is a great example of someone being inducted into a sensei's family, in Darrell Max Craig's "The Heart of Kendo", he describes what was done, and his reaction to the honor bestowed upon him and his son.

I believe that in order for one's sensei to induct someone into their family, that person would have to show exceptional skills in kendo. It's hard for me to explain, since I'm not really in a position to even contemplate having that done for me, and I don't want to sound like a "hachikyu". :wink:

[Akai Bushi]

My wife is Japanese would it be ok to wear her kamon as long as it's ok with her father(head of house)?

[KevinF]

Akai Bush,

That might be okay, but I echo the responses of those above who ask, "why would you wish to do it?" The kamon is the mark of a family name, and seeing a kamon on the do of someone who is obviously not Japanese leads most people to belive that they either received the do as a gift, bought it secondhand from a Japanese kendoka, or are currently borrowing the do from someone becasue their do broke (or something along these lines).

As to the original poster, don't ever ask for this. Just don't.

There is no established meaning or signifiance to the wearing of a kamon in the kendo world other than its the personal mark of a family. It's largely akin to puting your name on your kote or on your men, and doesn't mean anything to anyone other than you and the person whose kamon it is.

Please remember that kendo is a sprot and martial art which does not have obvisou outward signs of rank. It is for a reason. To seek a badge or special status through a kamon is to really fly in the face of this sentiment.

[enkorat]

I think that perhaps we are all assuming that everyone who is not of direct japanese decent have the same motivations for wearing a kamon.

Perhaps Akai-bushi's sentiment is that he feels that he is part of his wife's family. It is something he did not explain, and is probably is more of a personal issue that I certainly won't pry into on a public forum. Although not common, sometimes the wife's family name is adopted when that family is of greater status (its happened in my family). And honestly, my mother's kamon is not her father's kamon because my grandfather said "oh my kamon isn't too appropriate for a woman (arrow fletchings), use your mother's (some flower)". My mother told me she was quite disappointed.

Also in modern day japan these things aren't held in that high regard. When I was younger and I asked at a department store if they had something with kamon on it, the sales-woman's response was a wrinkled nose and a "why are you interested in such an old fashioned thing? I think we may have something in the gaigin-yo (for foreigners) section."

And besides, if one wants to be the "nail that needs to be hammered down", a small kamon in the corner of the doh doesn't seem to be that ostentatious, flashy or inappropriate. There are plenty of other ways to be much more flashy in kendo....(perlescent orange to green transition paint on doh comes to mind).

just my $0.03

p.s. besides if someone is really upset about someone wearing a kamon they'll just aim high during uchikomi and tear off the sticker <cough>

[binni]

Assuming you are not a member of your Sensei's family, why would you want to do that?

To identify one's association to a family-like group, a group taught and nurtured by Sensei. What sensei teaches us is handed down from the heart and we take it into ours. If a sensei gives us a piece of him/her self and our kendo is a result of his/her teachings, what's wrong with identifying with that sensei's symbol?

[mark]

If you were so honored as to be "inducted" into your I don't want to sound like a "hachikyu". :wink:

Hi Joe,
What do you mean by "Hachikyu"? I never heard that expression before.. just goes to show...:)
take care,
mark

[joekc6nlx]

Hi Joe,
What do you mean by "Hachikyu"? I never heard that expression before.. just goes to show...:)
take care,
mark

There was a thread last week about "Hachikyu", in other words, people who have no clue about what kendo is or what it means, but have all the answers to every question. I really have to watch the things I say, because I'm never sure if I'm acting in that manner.

[mark]

"Hachikyu", people who have no clue... I really have to watch the things I say, because I'm never sure if I'm acting in that manner.

Hi Joe,
I would not worry to much about that.
Every so often my wife reminds me that I don't have a clue ...period :)
I think that once we believe we understand ... that is when we are really in trouble.

If one of my comments is off base I am absolutely sure it will be promptly corrected :redface:
take care,
mark

[Katonk]

Akai Bush,

That might be okay, but I echo the responses of those above who ask, "why would you wish to do it?" The kamon is the mark of a family name, and seeing a kamon on the do of someone who is obviously not Japanese leads most people to belive that they either received the do as a gift, bought it secondhand from a Japanese kendoka, or are currently borrowing the do from someone becasue their do broke (or something along these lines)........

Please remember that kendo is a sprot and martial art which does not have obvisou outward signs of rank. It is for a reason. To seek a badge or special status through a kamon is to really fly in the face of this sentiment.

100% agree. Enough said on this topic. Kevin F. Haven't we discussed this before?

[LNGUYEN]

I have a question,
Let say I am Vietnamese by birth. I don't want to put Japanese kamon on my do but I really love to put a Vietnamese bird (National symbol, not officially though) because I am proud to be Vietnamese. Is it ok?

[Yaiba]

I have a question,
Let say I am Vietnamese by birth. I don't want to put Japanese kamon on my do but I really love to put a Vietnamese bird (National symbol, not officially though) because I am proud to be Vietnamese. Is it ok?
I'm not in any position to dictate what is right or wrong on this particular matter but my opinion is that this should be deemed okay because Kendo has become a martial sport that has been embraced by so many around the world. If the bird is a symbol of Vietnam and it represents something as noble as your motherland then I would respect you for wearing it. I've seen one person with a Kamon of a kangaroo (national symbol of Australia) similar to that of the QANTAS logo and I have no problems with that, although I admit I was a little surprised when I first saw it as it was totally unexpected. I hope you can somehow get it arranged with your bogu supplier.

By the way, just out of curiosity, what kind of bird is it? :)

[Andou]

There are many things you can put on your do that can symbolize other things. (The airbrushed dragon mentioned somewhere kind of strikes me as overdoing it though...). High schools have their own symbol which some kendoka have on their dos. Police stations do too--I think they do at least. So long as you have a good reason to wear what it is you wish to wear and can express to anyone who asks with full sincerity, I think one should be allowed to have some representation of their pride. That's just me though--hope that helps.

[KhawMengLee]

Speaking of crests, how long do you think one should train under a sensei before asking permission to wear his family kamon?


Family kamon are very personal...asking if you could use your Sensei's kamon is like asking if you could use his family name. I would approach it in another angle, tell him you want to place a kamon on your dou and what common kamon could you use(the koei catalogue has a nice range). He'll know what is appropriate or if he wants, he may allocate his kamon for you to use. Its better than just going up and asking directly if you can use his kamon...which really is an sticky sort of question.

I use a manji as my kamon, representing my faith. I particularly like the Takeda, Hojo and Mori kamon but felt it wasn't right to use them.

Using other symbols is up to you, things like school crests, heralds etc are fine but remember, if you do something as extravagant as an airbrushed dragon, Dou's get hit...nice large decorations will get destroyed...

[Katonk]

Rather than potentially confuse someone with a non-traditional kamon or a dragon painted on your do, why don't you create a custom patch to be stiched to the sleeve of your keiko-gi? I've seem quite a few dojo's have their own patch.

I've also seen some hakama's with embroidered lettering on the back along the left or right side. This is usually the kenshi's name in kanji or in english. I've also seen other verbiage such as Team USA Kendo, or their dojo name.

Why not try that? Rather than confusing someone or open themselves up to questions or snickering, do what you can within tradition to personalize yourself in kendo.

[nikolaj]

heh, personally, before I read this thread, I had no clue kamons were that big a deal, or had anything to do with japanese family crests... ^^°
I don't have one myself, and I never really thought about getting one. I allways thought it was no more than a personal decoration.
Anyways, in my personal noob-opinion I don't think asking a sensei for his permission to wear his kamon is such a great idea. If you want to wear it out of respect and pride, I guess it's okay to wear his kamon, when he offers it.
otherwise, I don't see the point. [/doesntknowwhatthehellhestalkingabout]

[Andou]

Anyways, in my personal noob-opinion I don't think asking a sensei for his permission to wear his kamon is such a great idea. If you want to wear it out of respect and pride, I guess it's okay to wear his kamon, when he offers it.
otherwise, I don't see the point. [/doesntknowwhatthehellhestalkingabout]

Heh, it's good to know someone can admit when they don't know what exactly they're talking about. There isn't really a point, as you say, to wearing a kamon of another person outside of respect and a form of admiration--In my opinion at least.

[LNGUYEN]

Just to resurect an old thread.

As above, I asked about Vietnamese bird logo on Do. Now, check out my new DO with the bird. What do you think?

Password: 1447072
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v491/lnguyen/

[Ignatz]

Nice.
Where have you been? Eating?

[LNGUYEN]

Nice.
Where have you been? Eating?


Construction site, my friend. The construction is so busy that I hardly have time to surf anymore. Do you know how many change order I submit everyday? This thing's driving me nut.

[sam.i.am]

I don't know about kendo or any JSA protocal for the use of "mon," but in kyudo student will take the "mon" of their teachers unless the student has a "mon" already. When kyudoka reaches a certain rank, they will need to perform ceremonial release of arrows that must be done wearing kimono rather than keikogi. In such case, the non-Japanese kyudoka wears kimono emblazoned with his teacher's mon.

[Curtis]

I spoke to Eguchi regarding kamon once, and their reply was that if one was to have a custom kamon done, it would be "very expensive".

As we're talking about the regular sticker being $6, the deluxe sticker being $12, a paint job on bogu being $90 dollars... well you can interpret for yourself what the meaning of "very expensive" would be.

....

Not, at least not through Koei. I have had several done and no they are not Japanese. I use the family crest from my English family background.

Cost depends on whether you want the raised gold or flat. The flat one wears off after a few years. Last time I paid less than $100 dollars I think for a raised one.

[Ignatz]

I can't decide between the rose from the Greatful Dead "American Beauty" album or one of their truckin bears.

I'm leaning to the rose because it is more dignified.

[LNGUYEN]

This is what I got for my bird

(extract from exchange email)

This can be drawn on Do in "Maki-e (gold drawing on Urushi-resin base)",
on the upper left (of who puts it on) of Do.
Kamon means Japanese family crest, but you can put your special sign on your Do.
This will cost adittional 6300yen for hand-drawing by a specialist using Urushi and gold powder, and the making takes 2 weeks.

[Anonymous]

Now I want to put a hello kitty thing on my do...

[DCPan]

Somebody I know attached this onto her doh:

http://www.underhilljewelers.com/itemDetails.php?xprodid=117&cat=8