Shinai / Year

[alexpollijr]

Gentleman,

Quick question: how many shinai do you use per year? One, two, more? I was wondering about the pros-and-cons of carbon shinai.

Cheers

Alex Polli

[lucian]

I heard that when carbon shinai go they explode was the word my sensei used,
and you can not replace parts like bamboo shinai,
but I am still using my first shinai only thing that has gone on it are nakayui and the strap on the tsukagawa but I do have several shinai which I interchange between,
sounds good that I am still on my first but I have only been doing kendo 7month it would interesting to see how shinai people use in a year but in comparison to the price 10-11 bamboo shinai for 1 carbon I think I would go for the bamboo plus I am sad I like cleaning and oiling my shinai

[J. Csensits]

I have personally used both carbon fiber (Hasegawa) and bamboo shinai. I bought the carbon fiber because of its longevity, but now that I've been training for awhile (6 years), I personally like the feel of bamboo shinai. I still use my carbon as a back up, but I usually can get at least a year out of a bamboo shinai. You can also save the good staves from broken shinai to fit together a new one, but be careful the bamboo doesn't always match up.

Jon Csensits

[Hyaku]

It was about 20 years ago that Hasegawa introduced these things. The marketing ploy at that time was the fact that they lasted longer.

A friend of mine went straight out and ordered one. They initially had problems. Being carbon fibre sandwiched in plastic the sandwich started to spit. I thought they had ironed (forgive the pun) the problem out?

Personaly I don't like the balance or feel of them. A plastic weapon seems alien to me.

Worst of all they damage! I bought a nice dark red Do. So dark it was almost black and the sunlight reflected the colour.

After one session in the dojo with two or three of the members using these my Do was badly marked. If you hit someone with these it will decidedly hurt more compared with take.

At first they were not allowed in Shia either

In buying one please spare a thought for the person on the receiving end!

A good shinai if kept well that does not dry out should last you a very long time. If used badly such as catching the top of the mengane it wont last a session.

Hyaku

[damocles]

I used to run about 2 shinai a year - causing me to buy cheap Taiwanese shinai to help the hip pocket.

Then I went out and bought a Hasegawa CF39M for 22,000 yen. The thing's lasted a while, and gives no sign of breaking any time soon. Thus it's great for general/everyday keiko.

I have a Japanese bamboo shinai in reserve that I use every now and then in training. It's the one I use in shiai.

The Hasegawa's good for durability, but it is much more flexible and that translates through the strike. Bamboo's more rigid (natch) and you can REALLY tell the difference between the two. I tried switching shinai in the middle of one session from bamboo to carbon... yes - bamboo much preferred if I could afford the ongoing cost.

Plus the Hasegawa's got this nasty clacking sound that makes it sound loose and like it's not assembled properly. Hence why I don't use it in shiai.

As for them breaking; one or two take might snap, perhaps violently as they do flex a lot more, but you can, like with other shinai, switch out take when one breaks. Of course, you have to shell out another 20,000 yen to get a whole one, and use your older one for parts... ^_^

[gszab]

A bamboo shinai lasts me for about two or three months. I have got a carbon shinai too, but I do not like it very much so I ment to use the bamboo.

Gszab

[don_lubo]

I use one shinai for tree yaears.How I can use more then one per tree years????It is CARBON-GRAFITE!!!

[alexpollijr]

Hi all

A week ago I had the opportunity to practice with member from the Brazilian team who fought the last WC. Some of them use carbon because they got them as a gift, since they can't afford to buy bamboo shinai in a regular basis.

Not one of them seemed to like it for anything besides hard practice. And I realized that, as mr. Hyaku said, they damage. My do had no scratches before that and now it has one deep scratch in each side, caused by their carbon shinai in endless sessions of Do kirikaeshi.

So, I'm not going for this stuff.

Thanks a lot

Alex Polli

[qpuppy]

Hi all

I have been learning kendo for the pass 5 months, currently go kyu and my brother have been doing kendo for the almost 3 years now, currently a shodan... I am also a kendo supplier for Meblourne.
From what I know, most people would perfer the bamboo shinais is because of the feel and that it's much cheaper. Yes it is true that Carbon last longer but if people know how to and how often they should do maintance on their bamboo shinais, it should last quite long.
Personally, I think Bamboo shinais are much better, especially during shiai. But I could be wrong.
Anyway good luck guys with the hunt...:)

[KhawMengLee]

I find the majority of my seniors use the carbon shinais because of durabilityin training. The good bamboo shinais get a hammering when beginners practice cuts like men or kirikaeshi.

I used to shudder as each biginner hit out with all his strength at the shinai...

[Hagakure]

Tyoically, moat prefer the traditional bamboo shinai, as it is the classic version. It is also comparativley lighter.

[ben]

Hard to say. I think maybe I buy two new bamboo each year, but during the course of the year I probably remake another four shinais about six to ten times from old parts. BTW I've been really disappointed with Tozando's shinais. Not for balance or weight but longevity. The tokusei-tozan and zen shinais I've bought have all had slats break (in half) in less than four months. I've had much longer use out of Taiwanese shinais which are the staple at my club for general use because of price and availability.

[Keith Hong]

Being a mere beginner, I am still on my second shinai.
The first one lasted over six months(not quite ten months, really). It might have lasted longer except that the rubber thingy between the staves broke. Without the thingy's cushioning effect, the bamboo split not too long after.
Even though I didn't start to actually hit things with my shinai for two months(swinging, stepping, seeing myself in the mirror), I sort of figured that I could get through a year with a maximum of two shinais.
Moreover, all of the seniors at my dojo who have carbon shinai use them solely for solo practice. Hence, I feel that getting a carbon shinai would be a gross overspending on my part.

Now the question...
I use a practice shinai that cost me less than 20 dollars. But I see these really gorgeous looking shinais that cost 70, 80, 90 dollars or more. What's the difference? Are they worth the additional cost?
Anybody who's used them, please let me know. Thanks!:cool:

[qpuppy]

Hi there Keith

Good question there you have!

[quote]
I use a practice shinai that cost me less than 20 dollars. But I see these really gorgeous looking shinais that cost 70, 80, 90 dollars or more. What's the difference? Are they worth the additional cost?
[quote]

There is a difference in those shinai. Practice shinais usually cost much cheaper (should say, they are the cheapest) is because they are made by a lower grade bamboo. Also, this counts for the weight of the shinai (if you take notice, some shinais are quite light compare to practice shinais - many seniors I know uses the lighter shinai for shiai use. This is becasue its gives them a slighter increase in their speed). Another is the type of bambaoo it's made from. Also the most important, the balance weight on the shinai (this means knowing if it's heavier at the front of the shinai or the back). Usually, the increase of cost is more to do with the balance on the shinais, becasue balance of the shinai gives you a greater control with the shinai. The best wieght balance would be in the center of the shinai.

My sensai has a shinai which was given by a 8th dan sensai when a whole group of 7th and 8th dan sensais came down to watch and help Judge the Australian National Championship.... and man was that shinai so light and well balanced. It was like no matter which part of the shinai you hold, you cant even feel any heaviness in the shinai.
And guess what.... I did some reseach on the shinai, and it turned out that shinai was a very rare shinai and only a hand full was ever made. Each shinai cost over $300. That shinai was made by the most well known shinai maker in Japan.

Anyway.. enough of me going blah blah blah....
I hope that answers your question :)
Happy training my follow kendokas;)

Alvin

[qpuppy]

Oh yeah Ben

How are ya? Forgot to ask you. Do you want to have a look at catalogue? If so I can give it to Chiaki so she can pass it on to you and you can have a look at the things you might want to get.
She wants to have a look at the catalogue herself becasue she needs to order for the club.

Alvin

[lewis]

I have found that it depends on the environment as well as use. In New York that has reasonable humidity, shinai lasted well (over 1 year without any special maintenance). However, in Colorado where it is very dry year round, some cheap shinais can begin to splinter very quickly if not oiled a lot, regardless of how much they are used.

[Keith Hong]

I can see from your posts on this thread and the one on buying equipment over the net that you are very knowledgeable about kendo equipment.
I am looking to get a good set of bogu as the one I have now(a hand-me-down) is falling apart.
You stated in your post that I should contact a manufacturer, not a small retailer, to get quality equipment that is all it claims to be(made in Japan by Japanese craftsman from Japanese material).
Could let me know who these manufacturers might be and how I could get in contact with them? Sure would appreciate your help. Thanks.:)

[alexpollijr]

Hi there,

Congratulations for the Korean win in the World Cup

Anyway, my two cents on the topic

If you want 100% japanese bogu, I'd stick with Khaw. Get a mid-level one from Moribudo (www.moribudo.co.jp). They're the favorite store of some of the police dojos in Japan.

However, since you live in Korea, it might be smarter to spend your money on a top-top level one from www.kendoshop.com, which is a korean store which has nice stuff for nice prices and a very nice manager. get a tezashi (hand made) one from them and be happy. Or stick to japanese stuff if you afford the prices, shippping and taxes.

I have a 2mm machine stiched bogu from e-bogu. It's very very nice stuf, and I paid about U$400 on it brand new. It looks liek it's going to last awhile. I had a 4mm one previously but it didn't last long. I was (and in a certain manner still am) a beginner anyway, so why spend my bucks on nice stuff.

Cheers! Go Korea!

[qpuppy]

Hi Keith

It's always nice to hear from a junior member considering buying a bogu for oneself. Hehehehe.... Okay I notice you said your "hand-me-down" bogu is falling apart. (One advice, you should learn fix the bogu first before you return it to your senior or sensei or your club - it wouldnt be nice to return a have broken equipment to anyone, besides great experence for yourself in the future if you need to do some maintence on your own bogu.)

Okay.... My brother used to be a supplier for Nakauishi Budogu Co Ltd and they are usually very good, and majority of their bogu are made by themselfs. Only a few cheaper bogu sets are made by a different bogu maker.
This is their website: http://www1.ocn.ne.jp/~kendougu/contents.html

This is the company that I currently supply from. Koei budogu Co Ltd. I found their equipment to be very high standard with their price.
This is their website:
http://www.koei-budogu.co.jp/
if you write them an email, Ask them for Terada-san and tell them I ( Alvin Chen ) have refer you to them.

anyway... happy huntering..:)

Alvin

[qpuppy]

Heya keith....... back again...

Here is the updated website of Nakauishi Bodogu Co Ltd
http://www.kendougu.co.jp/index.html

But the other website is still working... check both of them out if you can...

Alvin

[ben]

nice site! v smart flash animation keiko :) (btw namae wa "Nakanishi" desu ka?)

b

[qpuppy]

opps...

your right Ben it is "Nakanishi"... not "Nakauishi"
Gomene!!!.....:P

*woof woof*

[Kendoka]

I use a carbon fibre shinai for the first part of training. like in kihon, kiri kaeshi etc., then change to a nice bamboo shinai for keiko and for shiai. The carbon shinai of course gets a good workout !

I have been a bit lucky it seems form the above comments, because I haven't had to pull my bamboo shinai apart for ages.

I check it after evry training, never leave it where it well get hot or dry and occasionally wet it with water, then apply a thin wax like coating every now and again.

I never apply oil as i believe that water is more appropriate for a bamboo.



(Hi Alvinq and Ben)

[mingshi]

???

Sorry I must admit that I'm very confused......
So what should be applied on the shinai after practice? Water or oil? Does that depands on humidity of where you live too?

I thought with water it'll crack the shinai up!? And how often for shinai maintainance? I've been using oil... maybe I'm overdoing it.... I think my shinai is getting a darker colour....

[Keith Hong]

I recently ran into a buddy from college. He started kendo as a freshman and was a member of the school kendo club.
Anyway, I asked him where to find some good bogu at a reasonable price, and he recommended the shop that the school club buys from.
The shop(and workshop) is located in and takes up an old, small(fairly dingy) building in downtown Seoul. My friend told me that the company's over sixty years old. The present owner's father went over to Japan and learned bogu making from Japanese craftsman during the 1940's(before liberation?).
I talked to the owner and examined their ware. Of course, I don't have the expertise to really comment on the technical aspects of craftmanship and material. Still, everything looked fine.
Some questions, though. The futon on their bogu seemed very thick and stiff to my eyes. The bogu that other members of my dojo use are relatively thin and soft. Is the thick futon a good thing or a bad thing? Is this some old style of making bogu? Is it easier to use? Or will it take intolerably long to break in?
Some advice would be appreciated.

[Simon Chien]

Hi Keith,

So you are living at Seoul !?

Why do'nt you try http://www.sehyun-kumdo.co.kr ?

I've contact them and seems to me that they are quite good at the business !

[qpuppy]

Hi people.... :D

Originally posted by mingshi
???
I thought with water it'll crack the shinai up!? And how often for shinai maintainance? I've been using oil... maybe I'm overdoing it.... I think my shinai is getting a darker colour....

Hi Mingshi~~~~
Yes, that is true. using water all the time could lead to the shinai cracking up easier. I would recommend people to use 'linseed' Oil. Pull your shinai apart, and use a cloth or cotton bad and give it a light oil, leave it over night or two, then use a dry cloth to wipe off any excess oil, and leave it to dry for the rest of the day or night.
If your shinai is getting darker each time you oil it. I think you are overdoing it. depending how much you use the shinai. but average usage (3-4 trainings per week), I think oiling it once every 2-3 months would be good enough. (Well also this also depends how hard you hit :P)

Originally posted by Keith Hong

Some questions, though. The futon on their bogu seemed very thick and stiff to my eyes. The bogu that other members of my dojo use are relatively thin and soft. Is the thick futon a good thing or a bad thing? Is this some old style of making bogu? Is it easier to use? Or will it take intolerably long to break in?


Hi Keith~~~~~
yeah, having thick futon is a good thing, this means it is more durable. But yes it might be abit harder to move at first. Remember on thing. It might seem thinner and softer is maybe becasue of the long usage. It's like buying a pair of leather shoes. At frist it seem that the leather in really stiff and hard, but after wearing abit longer.. the leather becomes softer. It is the same concept for the futon on the bogu. Its great to hear that there is a bogu master there in Korea who learned the skill from Japan. :)

[Confound]

I have been studying almost 10 months now, and I am on my 4th shinai. Albeit, we haqve practice almost everyday for 2 - 4 hours, which may result in heavier wear on my shinai than is normal. Also, I tend to hit a little hard. one splintered on the crazy student teacher's mem. (however, it served him right, he'd just sent me flying across the budokan a few minutes before. it's not funny to use your full strength on someone whop really is inexperienced. it's good to teach them the limits of their skill, but sending someone slamming into a wall then rolling across the floor is not cool. i don't care who you are.)

I've been considering the pros and cons of buying a carbon shinai as well, but the ones here are heavier than bamboo. since the bamboo ones are bloody cheap, i'm sticking with them for now. how do the prices compare in north america? here it's about 2,200 yen for a new 38 inch bamboo shinai, and 27,000 yen for a new carbon.

c

[Hagakure]

Confound,

In the States
25-35$ for a bamboo
65-85$ for a carbon

[alexpollijr]

U$ 65 for a carbon shinai? Where?

For 65 bucks in most US stores I know you can only get one of the four slats of carbon fiber, or a nice Kyoto madake shinai.

Please point me this store 'hagakure', it's one bloody hell of a deal!


PS. For those who have been in the thread before, sensei just gave me his CF39 carbon shinai. It has one year of use so i think I can get away for a good time with it. The weight and balance is also nice, and since i'm not a heavy hitter my dojo mates haven't complained - yet.

[Confound]

Originally posted by Hagakure
Confound,

In the States
25-35$ for a bamboo
65-85$ for a carbon

That's a honey of a deal. where are you shopping? Let me know, because I'm going to start shopping there too...

c

[Hagakure]

Sorry Confound, I shop thru Sensei.

I could, if its not too much trouble, I could buy one for you and then you could pay me via snail mail or paypal? I have to place another order thru him anyway, so maybe I can get you what you need too.

If you are interested in carbon shinai, then I might be able to get it at that price. I heard that one thru others, and I haven't confirmed it though. My sensei makes regular trips to Japan though, to get extra equipment. I might be able to hook you up with some equipment.

I am not well versed in the exchange rates though. I don't know how much Yen translates into.

You can get in contact with me by emailing mark.g@juno.com
Just e-mail me your address and I'll get back to you if I can get the gear. I'll try, what's to lose?

[Hagakure]

Thanks to Ian Russel for the conversion rates!

Regards,
Mark

[inner_cent]

*sigh*........ I just broke 4 slabs of my bambo in 2 weeks... that makes 1 whole shinai.. ouch..........
Australian weather is really killing my shinai... :(

[Shiro]

*sigh*........ I just broke 4 slabs of my bambo in 2 weeks... that makes 1 whole shinai.. ouch..........
Australian weather is really killing my shinai... :(

I think I'm lucky living in Europe then :p