Drinking in the dojo

[iand]

Ok, so it's not what you think. I'm talking about water, or something similar. Has anyone ever been to a dojo where players are permitted to have bottles of water on standby for them to have a quick drink between exercises? This would be particularly useful (and beneficial to health and performance) in some of the hotter parts of the world, but I've yet to come across it in the three countries I've studied kendo in. Why is that?

[StormTyrant]

Here in northern california my dojo in mountain view lets us bring water.

[Anime12478]

At Purdue, I know we don't take separate water breaks but I don't know about bringing water bottles to take in between short breaks due to taking turns or anything.

The reason why some may not let people bring water or something is because water bottles might get in the way. Not to mention, if you don't have short breaks in between where it wouldn't interfere with the normal training schedule then they may not bring any bottles in.

To combat this, on the day of practice, I make sure I drink LOTS of water. That way I don't get thirsty and I don't pass out from dehydration, especially when I have bogu on that day.

[Andoru]

It all depends on the dojo. Taking small breaks maybe acceptable to some, but frown upon by others. I suggest that you tank up before training.

Of course, no dojo will stop you from having water breaks on hot days and/or for medical reasons.

[Nanbanjin]

Our instructor permits it. It gets pretty bloody hot up here in summer and not all of us are super-fit.

In Japan students are traditionally not allowed to drink water during practice. In high schools it is not uncommon for this to lead to students pissing blood; something to do with the membrane of the kidneys breaking down. There is a medical name for this condition and I think Mingshi wrote it somewhere in another thread.

[ISSAC RU]

Weak Babies drink water during Keiko.

[nikolaj]

I never really asked... I just make sure to drink enough before keiko, and have some with me to drink afterwards. I don't think our sensei would dissaprove of drinking during the training, but I don't know, I wouldn't do it if it's not neccesary.

[don don]

We used to allow it until some idiot spilled water on the floor and a Japanese guest slipped and landed on her back, (luckily without injury.) Now, you can bring water but you must take it outside to drink, and only during an officially mooted hot weather re-hydration break. I believe this is the same in most Japanese Dojo where drinking or doing anything casual or sloppy in front of the shrine is bad manners?

[don quixote]

We have water breaks, one or two in three hours of practice. In fact we are encouraged to bring bottles so as not to waste time going out to the tap. People only drink water during the breaks.

[Paburo]

in our dojo we only train one hour or one hour and half. so we don't usually do water breaks.

eventually at seminars and classes lasting 2+ hours, theres a 5 min break, to take men off, dry sweat and drink something if you may.

in summer, we sometimes also take about 2-3 min break before starting jigeiko (last part of class usually).

drinking or stopping between exercises and when there's no official break is considered to be rude and off-good ettiquette.

[Pauly]

In Japan students are traditionally not allowed to drink water during practice. In high schools it is not uncommon for this to lead to students pissing blood...

Wow, never heard of this. Our club never restricts water breaks. In fact, I feel sometimes US dojos (at least) are much more demanding of dojo etiquette than those in Japan. What use is it to deny water to those who are thirsty? It would make me want to quit kendo, especially if I were 16 years old.

[Anime12478]

It shouldn't be a problem if you are warned of that ahead of time. If you know then you can prevent problems by drinking water beforehand.

[jmarsten]

All my students are encouraged to bring water with the bottle that has a straw in the cap. They can stick it right through the mengane. If we are doing mowari keiko and they are in the out position then they have permission to take water. They are never allowed to bow out in the middle of drills or what ever and leave their partner standing. The activities are also scheduled to allow for short breaks if it is a long session. 2+ hours.
If you want people to perform at their best level why in the world would you deprive them of water or sports drink. You do not see professional teams or college/high school teams doing this. Why would kendo be different?

[Andou]

Hmm...water and drinks are going to get pretty popular as we get into June now. But...as everyone said and will say drinking before practice will prevent you from taking a break during practice. There are lots of different dojos out there and lots of different rules. The only way any of us can get a water break usually is if its dire...meaning on the verge of just falling over. Kinda harsh...but it also pushes you to the max...Either that or they just never told me we could get a break. Heh, hope that helps.

[Ninjujinkaku]

Alot of Ma has diff rules on drinking, In muay thai they suggest you dont eat or drink anything an hour before practice, which is good if you remember to keep yourself hydrated the rest of the day. In judo we get a break time off the mat after randori, I used to drink, now i just swish a little bit of water around in my mouth and drink that little bit, otherwise you risk cramping up and cant get back in to do some more randori. In my kung fu class your not allowed to drink until before and after unless you really need it, some people forget to drink something before class or dont drink much dureing the day. Of course if you feel dizzy and dehyrdrated you should always ask to get water no matter what formalities.

[kendomushi]

Taking breaks to drink in the dojo I have been to is highly discouraged. The idea being that you should come to practice hydrated and ready to go for as long as you are scheduled to go. Knowing that, and making it part of your practice goal helps to build endurance and stamina.
That being said, in very long or very hot weather, a good instructor watches his students and can see when they need a break or drink and makes sure they get it.

[Old Warrior]

Taking breaks to drink in the dojo I have been to is highly discouraged. The idea being that you should come to practice hydrated and ready to go for as long as you are scheduled to go. Knowing that, and making it part of your practice goal helps to build endurance and stamina.
That being said, in very long or very hot weather, a good instructor watches his students and can see when they need a break or drink and makes sure they get it.

I'm 57 and it was 80+ degrees in our dojang on Saturday. We had some guests and I gave it everything I had to do my best. After about 15 minutes of straight sparring, my fingers started to tremble (I knew exactly what was happening). I asked permission to leave the floor and began to drink water. In a few minutes the trembling stopped and I was able to continue. I don't understand the point. We are not training to be soldiers and some of us are a bit too old to deny ourselves adequate hydration.

[nikolaj]

We are not training to be soldiers and some of us are a bit too old to deny ourselves adequate hydration.

Myeah, In that situation I also think it's important to make a difference between the average non-japanese dojo (containing people of all ages)
and, for instance, a japanese high-school dojo.
I still feel drinking in a dojo during training should be avoided, but denieing yourself water in th situation you just described would indeed be stupid and even dangerous.

[samurai999]

Our instructor permits it. It gets pretty bloody hot up here in summer and not all of us are super-fit.

In Japan students are traditionally not allowed to drink water during practice. In high schools it is not uncommon for this to lead to students pissing blood; something to do with the membrane of the kidneys breaking down. There is a medical name for this condition and I think Mingshi wrote it somewhere in another thread.

I heard of this too.. Isn't it when there is nothing left to piss out of your body, your body pisses out blood instead. Also i heard a while back that somebody down here in california died at one kendo practice because of heat stroke caused by "excessive practice". i don't exactly remember where though.

In norcal, we are allowed to leave squeeze bottles with long straws sticking out of them. We can stick them into our mengane quickly and take a sip at any time during the practice. I need that too.. I start to sweat when we stretch out. By the time we are into suriashi drills, I'm already dying....

Tim

[nikolaj]

well, we HAVE had trainings when it was extremely hot and there was no airco, but we just took it easy then.

(and by easy I mean, a lot of katas and excercises without bogu, a little keiko)

[gsx1100s]

Weak Babies drink water during Keiko.


.....and intelligent people make sure they are hydrated ( before or during training) so as to concentrate better and stop resulting health problems :):wink:

cheers michael

[Neil Gendzwill]

Taking breaks to drink in the dojo I have been to is highly discouraged. The idea being that you should come to practice hydrated and ready to go for as long as you are scheduled to go. Knowing that, and making it part of your practice goal helps to build endurance and stamina.
That sounds like you're making excuses for the old-school hard-headed mentality. There's no way to prehydrate for a 3 hour practice in 35C with 100% humidity. Not only that, but it is now becoming known that performance is affected by dehydration long before there's any health risk.

Nanbanjin I think the term you're looking for is "march hemoglobin".

[kendomushi]

On the contrary, I am not making excuses, although I have been reprimanded for pushing myself too hard on several occassions, "school yard kendo" as some of my instructors have called it.
I simply state that you should show up ready in every sense for the practice you anticipate, to include adequate hydration.
Further, a good sensei will be aware of the state his students are in and make sure they get any breaks for whatever purpose that they need.
In the desire to improve ourselves through kendo, we are bound to suffer some discomfort and injury. This includes pushing ourselves beyond our limits from time to time and setting new limits. I do not advocate anyone keep going should they feel weak, faint, or ill. But I personally feel a bit of "gaman" is always a good thing.

[Kaoru]

On the contrary, I am not making excuses, although I have been reprimanded for pushing myself too hard on several occassions, "school yard kendo" as some of my instructors have called it.
I simply state that you should show up ready in every sense for the practice you anticipate, to include adequate hydration.
Further, a good sensei will be aware of the state his students are in and make sure they get any breaks for whatever purpose that they need.
In the desire to improve ourselves through kendo, we are bound to suffer some discomfort and injury. This includes pushing ourselves beyond our limits from time to time and setting new limits. I do not advocate anyone keep going should they feel weak, faint, or ill. But I personally feel a bit of "gaman" is always a good thing.

Hi Kendomushi-san,

What's "gaman" please?

Our dojo is run the same way. We are not allowed to drink anything during practice either. Sensei told us to drink water beforehand. But, he did tell us to let him know if we feel sick due to the heat, since Summer is now here.

Kaoru

[kendomushi]

Hi Kaoru-san,

Gaman is a Japanese word meaning patience, perseverance, self-control, and self-denial. If you can see Japanese characters, its is written:

我慢

[ratdeau]

In our dojo, people are not supposed to stop training to drink, but when it's to warm, we do a break before the ji-geiko or before to put men on.

[Yaiba]

What's "gaman" please?

Hi Kaoru,

"Gaman" (Japanese) means patience, endurance, perseverance... i.e. to bite the bullet and put up with discomfort, annoyance, etc.

Yeah, a little bit of "gaman" is okay but I think it's better to be safe than sorry as some people just don't know where their limits lie... asking the sensei politely to be excused for a sip of water is the smartest thing to do. As long as it's a sincere request then a sensei should understand.

[Yaiba]

Haha... kendomushi-san, you beat me to it. ^^;;

Anyway, for everyone else who's reading this, my post should serve to back up kendomushi-san's definition of "gaman".

Cheers.

[Kaoru]

Hi Kaoru-san,

Gaman is a Japanese word meaning patience, perseverance, self-control, and self-denial. If you can see Japanese characters, its is written:

我慢

Thank you Kendomushi-san. I understand now. :)

Kaoru

[Kaoru]

Hi Kaoru,

"Gaman" (Japanese) means patience, endurance, perseverance... i.e. to bite the bullet and put up with discomfort, annoyance, etc.

Yeah, a little bit of "gaman" is okay but I think it's better to be safe than sorry as some people just don't know where their limits lie... asking the sensei politely to be excused for a sip of water is the smartest thing to do. As long as it's a sincere request then a sensei should understand.

And thank you too, Yaiba-san. Both of you were very helpful! Your definition is much appreciated too. Put the two together, and it's just perfect. :)

Thank you again for explaining what it means Kendomushi-san and Yaiba-san! :)

Kaoru

[kendomushi]

Haha... kendomushi-san, you beat me to it. ^^;;

Anyway, for everyone else who's reading this, my post should serve to back up kendomushi-san's definition of "gaman".

Cheers.

Always good to know someone has got my back Yaiba. :) lol

[samurai999]

Gaman? Shoot.. gaman.. i'm so sick of that word. My parents used that as they smacked me silly when i was a kid, forced me to study all hours of the day, and forced me to practice 4 hours of piano a day..

Gaman is good to a point to me. You don't quit because it starts to feel uncomfortable.. You go until you can't take it anymore and maybe a bit more.. then you take a rest. I think that works better for me than just going "till you drop".

Tim

[samurai999]

Weak Babies drink water during Keiko.

Are you the second coming of haihai?? Try going through 4 hours of our team practices and see if you won't be wanting water during that. We go through all of our water during the first 2 hours of keiko.

Tim

[Mowvran]

I have not been able to train for 6 months now due to a injury and complications however I always took water to the dojo and drank before jigeiko as did most of the dojo. Dehydration affects performance and focus long before you collapse, I have found as I get older I recognise symptoms earlier and rehydrate to gain the most out each class.