kyu?

[[Kensei 剣の聖者]]

i dont rele get this , that in england the first grading you do is 1st Kyu.. so what are the requirements for all the other kyu eg 5th 4th 3rd, and why in the BKA book does it have all the other grades from 6 to 1

[joekc6nlx]

According to the IKF and the AJKF, kyu requirements for 6- to 2- kyu are set by the individual dojo. Once a candidate tests for 1-kyu, then they must be graded by their regional federation. The only guidelines set are for 1-kyu and above.

As an aside, one of the members of my dojo tested for 1-kyu for his very first promotion exam, and he passed. So, he went from ungraded to 1-kyu immediately. Again, it's up to the individual dojo and the regional federation to set guidelines for that promotion.

[nikolaj]

According to the IKF and the AJKF, kyu requirements for 6- to 2- kyu are set by the individual dojo. Once a candidate tests for 1-kyu, then they must be graded by their regional federation. The only guidelines set are for 1-kyu and above.

As an aside, one of the members of my dojo tested for 1-kyu for his very first promotion exam, and he passed. So, he went from ungraded to 1-kyu immediately. Again, it's up to the individual dojo and the regional federation to set guidelines for that promotion.

huh? that's strange, here you can go from 6kyu (or 10kyu, depending on the dojo) till 3kyu before you go to a regional exam for 2kyu. (and all other exams from 6 till 3kyu HAVE to have been done, usually with a timespan of at least three months between every exam.)

@ kensei, are you saying that in Britain the 2nd exam you ever do is shodan? Because that would be strange to me...

[Neil Gendzwill]

@ kensei, are you saying that in Britain the 2nd exam you ever do is shodan? Because that would be strange to me...
In Canada it's the same, unless the dojo decides to impose any further exams. We don't, except for the exam to earn bogu.

[nikolaj]

really? wow...
so how long does it usually take someone to actually take the ikkyu exam in canada or britain?

[JSchmidt]

Both Canada and the UK follows the same system as per the IKF guidelines. First grading is ikkyu, which officially, can be achieved in 50 hours, shodan another 3 months later. In practice, however, people take about 1 year to get ikkyu and another year to get shodan, although this can vary wildly depending on commitment, skill and to some extent, ability to perform at the grading.

Jakob

[[Kensei 剣の聖者]]

yeah well my dojo just sed do the Ikkyu exam this october and thats my first exam then it goes on to first dan, but seeing as the other grades are internal it makes sense but our dojo doesnt do internal grading., but yeah, probly just a different system

[nikolaj]

still, ikkyu in one year? Sorry to say so, but I can't imagine that the bar for ikkyu must be very high then...

[JSchmidt]

Why then you just come and try one of our gradings, then?..it's only a 3 hour train journey away...
I've done my last 2 gradings in Belgium (Nakakura Cup) and as far as I can see, the level is very similar.

Jakob

[nikolaj]

heh, I'm not saying it's a better or a worse system, and I like ours.
I couldn't say which country has the best level of ikkyus, but one year just seems very soon.
And I'd love to go to the nakakura cup btw, but I heard it was quite expensive...

[Berugijin]

heh, I'm not saying it's a better or a worse system, and I like ours.
I couldn't say which country has the best level of ikkyus, but one year just seems very soon.
And I'd love to go to the nakakura cup btw, but I heard it was quite expensive...

It does seem very soon, but remember that most dojo's (those that I go to anyways) in Belgium only train once a week. I've noticed this before, in the US training is often three times a week, what it's like in the UK I wouldn't know.

[nikolaj]

It does seem very soon, but remember that most dojo's (those that I go to anyways) in Belgium only train once a week. I've noticed this before, in the US training is often three times a week, what it's like in the UK I wouldn't know.
true... (and what dojo is that btw?)

[Berugijin]

And I'd love to go to the nakakura cup btw, but I heard it was quite expensive...

Blame the foreigners :wink:.

They made it pricey (40EUR/two-hour seminar AFAIK) because kendoka from all over Europe flock to it, by raising the price they had hoped to avoid the huge crowd (it didn't work). So there's a very good chance it'll be even more expensive next year...

But my sensei told us she'd try to make it cheaper for Belgians (whom the seminar was intended for originally).

[Berugijin]

true... (and what dojo is that btw?)

I believe this is the second time you asked me this: http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showpost.php?p=108972&postcount=30

Do you train in other dojo's than Enmei Ryu? Ever went to Sei Shin Kan?

[EzzzE]

strange that every country /kendo assiciation has its own rules....in germany you start at 6th kyu, and can grade every half year max...

not really that one would need so many kyu's 2 would be enough i guess. one for beginner in bogu who starts to know his way around, one for advanced ... and then 1dan.... japan also doesn't have kyu's.. and kendo anywhy has no yellow, white, red belt etc system so what use is it to have a 6th kyu in your kendo pass?

[h2o]

and kendo anywhy has no yellow, white, red belt etc system so what use is it to have a 6th kyu in your kendo pass?
I think it's great to start low and then start working to pass your next grade. Then you always have a reasonable goal to shoot for. We start at 4 kyu (usually after a beginners' class) and have to go through 3,2 and 1 as well. There is no way to "skip" a grade.
I am currently 3 kyu, and will be going for 2 kyu after the summer, and I don't think that will be very much of a problem if I train hard. Ikkyu on the other hand is a goal that is very far away, and if aimed at that now, the probability of lost motivation is higher. Now I can get small confirmations that I am on the right track all the way up to ikkyu and shodan.

[JSchmidt]

I think it's great to start low and then start working to pass your next grade. Then you always have a reasonable goal to shoot for.

That is *exactly* whats wrong with using the 6-2nd kyu-system and I saw it in action, while I was living in New Zealand (which uses the kyu-system). What it does, is that it sets the bar too low.
Instead of looking at ikkyu and saying "geez, I want to do kendo like that", people look up at the kyu grade above them and aim to achieve that. Just look through this subforum, with people going "What do I need to do to pass X-kyu?".
It's setting the bar far too low and the effect is that it sets the goal of people too low.

Jakob

[joekc6nlx]

huh? that's strange, here you can go from 6kyu (or 10kyu, depending on the dojo) till 3kyu before you go to a regional exam for 2kyu. (and all other exams from 6 till 3kyu HAVE to have been done, usually with a timespan of at least three months between every exam.)

@ kensei, are you saying that in Britain the 2nd exam you ever do is shodan? Because that would be strange to me...

Why is it strange? It's the AJKF guidelines.

[Yiu Fai]

I started learning Kendo only in Nov last year and 1 month ago I got my 9th kyu. However at the moment I'm training with a non-accredited dojo, who dont really follow the Australian Kendo Federation model for kyu gradings.

As soon as I get the ok for bogu, I'll be looking to train with the Uni team here at Flinders, so I'll have to undergo my 1st kyu grading experience all over again!

[h2o]

What it does, is that it sets the bar too low.
That's strange, since I have heard that Swedes are generally "undergraded". I guess it might have to do with a low number of grading oppurtunities due to lack of high graded instructors though.
And I don't really understand your point either, the requirements to pass ikkyu is still the same no matter how many grades you need to pass on they way there. And, we don't start at 6 kyu, but at 4 kyu, so there is really not a lot of steps.

[JSchmidt]

What I mean is that when people have to go through 6-2 kyu, their initial progress is slowed down, compared to people who go straight for ikkyu.

Jakob

[Phil-co]

That's strange, since I have heard that Swedes are generally "undergraded". I guess it might have to do with a low number of grading oppurtunities due to lack of high graded instructors though.
And I don't really understand your point either, the requirements to pass ikkyu is still the same no matter how many grades you need to pass on they way there. And, we don't start at 6 kyu, but at 4 kyu, so there is really not a lot of steps.

The new grading system in Sweden though begins at 6 kyu.

[ratdeau]

In Switzerland, you have to be registrated in the federation for two years (with bogu) to test fo 2 kyu, wait 6 month for 1 kyu, wait 6 month more for 1 dan.
Dojo are free to set internal exams from 6 to 3 kyu and big dojo do it. In some dojo, the only internal exam is for allowing people to wear bogu.

[projectnavi]

is there a sort of international federation site that says what Exactly is needed to be proved aquired for the different grades ?

like, what does it take for Ikkyu, since i guess it should be the same from place to place ?

thanks for any link that gets me close to the answer...

project

[[Kensei 剣の聖者]]

still, ikkyu in one year? Sorry to say so, but I can't imagine that the bar for ikkyu must be very high then...


does that mean its really fast to be doing ikkyu in one year? because i was actualy meant to do it last october but i wasnt a member of the bka so i kinda ran out on that opportunity, and last october i had been doing kendo since that january roughly, so i guess that woudl be around 7-8 months - but the requirements are only the first 3 kata, kirikaishi and jigeiko where you only really need one or two men cuts.. is this unusual? im not so sure, but the third kata gets on my ****** nerves, i learnt number 4 and thats infnitely easier , what a paradox...

[nikolaj]

What I mean is that when people have to go through 6-2 kyu, their initial progress is slowed down, compared to people who go straight for ikkyu.

Jakob
Actually I don't think that's true...
In our dojo, you can tell the difference between a 3kyu and a 4kyu.
Also, The aspiration to become 1kyu or shodan is just as big, only because of the number of exams ahead of you, it seems even more far away and something to work for for a long time.

[tokon]

strange that every country /kendo assiciation has its own rules....in germany you start at 6th kyu, and can grade every half year max...

not really that one would need so many kyu's 2 would be enough i guess. one for beginner in bogu who starts to know his way around, one for advanced ... and then 1dan.... japan also doesn't have kyu's.. and kendo anywhy has no yellow, white, red belt etc system so what use is it to have a 6th kyu in your kendo pass?

well, german kendo federation is going it´s own way. i don´t no why they have desided to use a more severer grading-system than hole europe and even japan!

of course japan uses kyu-gradings, but only for children and not for adults!

i find the system is quite good...10 kyu gradings for beginners. you can use it to motivate the youngsters and ofcourse the older ones ;-) to train harder and to come frequently to training. and if skill gots a good developmet why not skipping a kyu-grade

[Kingofmyrrh]

of course japan uses kyu-gradings, but only for children and not for adults!
Do they? I've never met a Japanese kid that wasn't either ungraded or 1kyu or better. I don't think they bother with all the minor ones beneath that (and like Jakob, I think this is for the best).

[h2o]

The new grading system in Sweden though begins at 6 kyu.
Yes, but if I understood it right it was not mandatory and mostly meant to be used for children. I personally don't understand why you need a 6 kyu for adults, since the requirements for 4 kyu are quite low.

[nikolaj]

Yes, but if I understood it right it was not mandatory and mostly meant to be used for children. I personally don't understand why you need a 6 kyu for adults, since the requirements for 4 kyu are quite low.

again, that depends what dojo you're in. There was a 4kyu exam in my dojo not too long ago, and even though he passed, the guy taking it had to show quite some skill for such a grade...
(then again, maybe my sensei does have high requirements when it comes to exams...)

[h2o]

again, that depends what dojo you're in. There was a 4kyu exam in my dojo not too long ago, and even though he passed, the guy taking it had to show quite some skill for such a grade...
(then again, maybe my sensei does have high requirements when it comes to exams...)
Perhaps. From what I remember from the 4th kyu gradings I have been on (both times participating, but grading on only one, "fill out" on the second) what you had to do was (if I remember corectly) uchi-komi, suburi, kote-men and one other waza which I have forgotten. Nothing complicated and everyone passes. As I said, lower levels than that seems to me to be unnecessary.

[nikolaj]

Perhaps. From what I remember from the 4th kyu gradings I have been on (both times participating, but grading on only one, "fill out" on the second) what you had to do was (if I remember corectly) uchi-komi, suburi, kote-men and one other waza which I have forgotten. Nothing complicated and everyone passes. As I said, lower levels than that seems to me to be unnecessary.
oh no, that's what we have to do for 6th kyu...
for 4th kyu, I remember having to do kirikaeshi, the first 2 katas, some suburi, several wazas and uchi komi (the long version)
maybe something else too, but I don't remember.

[samurai999]

You guys are lucky.. (i guess?) We in Cali (norcal atleast) have to grade regionally for each kyu. From rokkyu to ikkyu. But, they give us chances to skip a kyu if your skills are higher than the rank your dojo requests. I took 2 years to get to 1dan and I skipped 2 times!

Tim

[Andoru]

Australia is similar to Germany - we start from 6th kyu and there are 2 (regional) gradings per year. Theoretically the max number of jumps is 2, and no jumps from 3rd, 2nd and ikkyu onwards. First dan can be attempted after spending 1 year as ikkyu.

So..it would take 2-3 years to get to ikkyu here, or 3-4 years to shodan.

I wonder if the levels of ikkyu or shodan are higher in Australia given the fact that they had to spend more time training to get there. Look at ikkyu for example - 1 year for UK, Canada and Japan versus 2 to 3 years here.

[Phil-co]

Yes, but if I understood it right it was not mandatory and mostly meant to be used for children. I personally don't understand why you need a 6 kyu for adults, since the requirements for 4 kyu are quite low.

I don't agree that the requirements for 4 kyu in Sweden is low. Quite the opposite (I believe); the reason they suggested 6 kyu as a starting kyu was that the step from nothing to 4 kyu was too difficult, and many failed.

However, perhaps in some dojos it's easier than in others. I've been to different dojos in Sweden, and the requirements, although same on paper, differed greatly. In my dojo, they were quite strict.

[Phil-co]

Perhaps. From what I remember from the 4th kyu gradings I have been on (both times participating, but grading on only one, "fill out" on the second) what you had to do was (if I remember corectly) uchi-komi, suburi, kote-men and one other waza which I have forgotten. Nothing complicated and everyone passes. As I said, lower levels than that seems to me to be unnecessary.

What about dai ichi kihon? At the different gradings I've been to, at different dojos, dai ichi kihon has always been part of the 4 kyu grading.

[JSchmidt]

I wonder if the levels of ikkyu or shodan are higher in Australia given the fact that they had to spend more time training to get there. Look at ikkyu for example - 1 year for UK, Canada and Japan versus 2 to 3 years here.

With my relativly limited experience with Australian kendo: No, not really. More crafty perhaps, but in terms of kendo, it was pretty much the same.

Jakob

[h2o]

I don't agree that the requirements for 4 kyu in Sweden is low. Quite the opposite (I believe); the reason they suggested 6 kyu as a starting kyu was that the step from nothing to 4 kyu was too difficult, and many failed.
I have never heard of anyone failing a 4 kyu exam in Sweden. I should point out that I am fairly new in kendo, but everyone I've spoken to says the same. No one fails.


However, perhaps in some dojos it's easier than in others. I've been to different dojos in Sweden, and the requirements, although same on paper, differed greatly. In my dojo, they were quite strict.
Would it be impolite of me to ask which dojo you attended, and where? There isn't exactly a huge number of dojos in Sweden :)

About the "dai ichi kihon", am I right when I translate this to "large basic cutting techniques"? If that is correct then it is part of the uchi-komi. I am sorry if I have misunderstood and misused any of the japenese terms, still trying to learn the names :)

[Phil-co]

I have never heard of anyone failing a 4 kyu exam in Sweden. I should point out that I am fairly new in kendo, but everyone I've spoken to says the same. No one fails.

Would it be impolite of me to ask which dojo you attended, and where? There isn't exactly a huge number of dojos in Sweden :)

About the "dai ichi kihon", am I right when I translate this to "large basic cutting techniques"? If that is correct then it is part of the uchi-komi. I am sorry if I have misunderstood and misused any of the japenese terms, still trying to learn the names :)

I attend GAK Enighet. And I am Swedish, despite what my location says :). may I ask you in return what grade your trainer/sensei has? I'm just curious.

In the years I have been training and attending gradings, I've seen several people fail (of course, the majority don't fail, but nonetheless), due to the strict grading procedures at my dojo. I guess not all dojos in Sweden are that strict on the first grading. People who fail do so for example when they don't use large cuts, when they don't show any zanshin, when they don't have kiai or when they haven't bothered which cut is which, and for example do kote when the dojo captain shouts men!

Dai ichi kihon is something we emphasize. It is, like you said, large basic cutting techniques, but it's not quite uchi-komi. Uchi-komi (I'm not speaking for the dojo, so I can be mistaken) is when you do the basic cuts against an opponent more often than not in bogu (he could of course be without bogu, and instead holding his shinai as a target, if you know what I mean?), then run pass him and then back to chudan-no-kamae, showing zanshin.

Dai ichi kihon however, is when you do a certain program of the basic cuts on the spot, and you do them first in three steps (ichi: you lift your shinai, ni: you do the cut and move forward; your shinai doesn't actually touch your opponent, san: you go back to chudan-no-kamae) and then you do it in one step. In dai ichi kihon you go through men, hidari-men, migi-men, kote, do, tsuki, renzoku sho-men, renzoku sayu-men, kote-men, kote-do and finally kote-men-do. And then you switch roles, and your opponent now gets to do this on you. I wouldn't call this uchi-komi though, although it's basic cuts.

Oh, almost forgot: did you by the way by any chance attend this year's Oslo open?

[h2o]

I attend GAK Enighet. And I am Swedish, despite what my location says :). may I ask you in return what grade your trainer/sensei has? I'm just curious.
2 dan going for third if I am not mistaken.

People who fail do so for example when they don't use large cuts, when they don't show any zanshin, when they don't have kiai or when they haven't bothered which cut is which, and for example do kote when the dojo captain shouts men!
Uhm, requiring zanshin for 4 kyu seems quite hard.


Oh, almost forgot: did you by the way by any chance attend this year's Oslo open?
Nope, sorry. I am still quite much of a beginner so I haven't attended any tournaments. I hope to be able to attend this years Swedish championships in Umeå though. I just have to grade 2 kyu first ;)

[nikolaj]

Uhm, requiring zanshin for 4 kyu seems quite hard.


not really, I think A level of zanshin should be atained for 4kyus...
You shouldn't be an expert at zanshin, but at least show SOME...

[Phil-co]

not really, I think A level of zanshin should be atained for 4kyus...
You shouldn't be an expert at zanshin, but at least show SOME...

Exactly...

[Phil-co]

not really, I think A level of zanshin should be atained for 4kyus...
You shouldn't be an expert at zanshin, but at least show SOME...

...But then again, is it possible to show some zanshin? Isn't it more like 'either you show zanshin, or you don't'?

[h2o]

not really, I think A level of zanshin should be atained for 4kyus...
You shouldn't be an expert at zanshin, but at least show SOME...
If you consider that 4 kyu is the FIRST grade you attain in Sweden, and the exam is often placed in the end of the beginners course (3-4 months).
From what I understand you are just supposed to know how to do the different techniques, you are not required to do them perfectly.
If we are lucky a higher graded swede can perhaps explain this in more detail, since I am merely 3 kyu and have only trained for a little more than a year. Preferably someone who've graded people themselves.

[Phil-co]

If you consider that 4 kyu is the FIRST grade you attain in Sweden, and the exam is often placed in the end of the beginners course (3-4 months).
From what I understand you are just supposed to know how to do the different techniques, you are not required to do them perfectly.
If we are lucky a higher graded swede can perhaps explain this in more detail, since I am merely 3 kyu and have only trained for a little more than a year. Preferably someone who've graded people themselves.

Well, you don't have to do the techniques perfectly, but you have to show that you at least understand what it's about. If you e.g. hold your shinai with your left hand at the top, either you haven't understood, or haven't payed attention at class. As for zanshin, if you follow through after your men cut, try to kiai, and then turn around, you will probably pass that grading. It's not perfect, but you show that you understand. Understanding is vital. If you however don't kiai, or don't follow through (no matter how bad it looks when you try it), you haven't understood and you're not fit to pass the grade. That's my experience, after watching different gradings, and asking sempai and sensei.

I, too, welcome a more experienced high grade Swede, who can tell his/her views on this. Not many on this forum though :wink:

[nikolaj]

If you consider that 4 kyu is the FIRST grade you attain in Sweden, and the exam is often placed in the end of the beginners course (3-4 months).
From what I understand you are just supposed to know how to do the different techniques, you are not required to do them perfectly.
If we are lucky a higher graded swede can perhaps explain this in more detail, since I am merely 3 kyu and have only trained for a little more than a year. Preferably someone who've graded people themselves.

well, to me, attempting 4kyu after 3-4 months is REALLY soon...
I'm a 3kyu as well, but I only took the exam after 2 years or so, now I'm training for 2kyu...

[h2o]

Well, you don't have to do the techniques perfectly, but you have to show that you at least understand what it's about. If you e.g. hold your shinai with your left hand at the top, either you haven't understood, or haven't payed attention at class. As for zanshin, if you follow through after your men cut, try to kiai, and then turn around, you will probably pass that grading. It's not perfect, but you show that you understand. Understanding is vital. If you however don't kiai, or don't follow through (no matter how bad it looks when you try it), you haven't understood and you're not fit to pass the grade. That's my experience, after watching different gradings, and asking sempai and sensei.
Then I guess we are agreeing :)

[D'Artagnan]

I've been doing kendo for about 2 and a half years now, and I'm graded to 2nd dan. fortunately I live in the UK so this is possible.

It strikes me as a bit counter productive to hold back progress in the early stages of kendo. Thus taking several years to achieve 1st dan (itself still a beginner's grade).

In other words, I agree with JSchmidt. :)

[Phil-co]

well, to me, attempting 4kyu after 3-4 months is REALLY soon...
I'm a 3kyu as well, but I only took the exam after 2 years or so, now I'm training for 2kyu...

2 years for sankyu is exceptionally long time.

[Phil-co]

Then I guess we are agreeing :)

Indeed we are :)

[h2o]

well, to me, attempting 4kyu after 3-4 months is REALLY soon...
I'm a 3kyu as well, but I only took the exam after 2 years or so, now I'm training for 2kyu...
You still have to understand that the requirements we have are so low that failing 4 kyu after 3-4 months training is virtually impossible (if you attend most of your classes, that is). 3 kyu after 2 years here means you have missed all gradings. In the beginners class I joined this autumn (2004) all "active" kendoka have graded 3 kyu. Those in our club that have trained 2+ years and were still 3 kyu had for different reasons not been able to attend any gradings.

[h2o]

It strikes me as a bit counter productive to hold back progress in the early stages of kendo. Thus taking several years to achieve 1st dan (itself still a beginner's grade).
Agreed. But I still believe it is god to have several "steps" to pass on the way there. Small steps, but still steps. 4 kyu grades seems to me to be enough.

[Neil Gendzwill]

In most countries, kendo shodan is a beginner's grade. In some other martial arts, it indicates a fairly high level of skill. I think the problem comes in when people regard a kendo shodan the same way they do a judo shodan - they're apples and oranges.

I think it would be nice to have a consistent standard across all IKF countries. I don't understand why some countries choose to make shodan such a tough standard when even the Japanese don't do that.

[KevinF]

I agree with you Neil. I think many countries feel they have something to prove, and make the requirements more difficult than Japanese testing. Also, because many people have experience with the kyu system from karate and other martial arts, some countries/dojos/federations feel the need to match levels of skill and difficulty to the other marital arts.

I assume the extra time between rankings and the extended kyu system was designed for countires and areas where people can't practice as much as in Japan. But for those kendokas who are serious, and who live in places with access to regular practice and a large number of senpai and practice partners, its a bit unfair.

Oh well.

[[Kensei 剣の聖者]]

This guy told me that in Japan 1st dan is like super hyper easy

[nikolaj]

2 years for sankyu is exceptionally long time.

not here it isn't, in fact, my sensei told us (me and a friend who did our exams together) That we were evolving pretty fast..
then again @ D'Artagnan, in Belgium 2dan isn't conscidered a beginners grade... (it's definitly not a master's grade, but it does indicate some experiece..)

I guess it's just different... too bad really, it does make international standards a lot more difficult.

[Paburo]

last year i fought with a belgium kenshi around my age, but yondan...

do you skip kyu tests or something?? :D

[Neil Gendzwill]

Minimum age for yondan here is 21.

[Gerald Audette]

Yondan at 21? That would make shodan at something around 14...assuming that they pass every exam on the first try. Wow. I wonder how often that happens?

[JSchmidt]

Here's the time/age guidelines from AJKF/IKF

GradeMinimum DelayMinimum Age
1st Kyuabout 50 hours12 years
1st Dan3 Months after 1st Kyu14 years
2nd Dan1 year after 1st Dan
3rd Dan2 years after 2nd Dan18 years
4th Dan3 years after 3rd Dan
5th Dan4 years after 4th Dan
6th Dan5 years after 5th Dan
7th Dan6 years after 6th Dan
8th Dan8years after 7th Dan45 years

(Taken from the BKA website)

Jakob

[nikolaj]

last year i fought with a belgium kenshi around my age, but yondan...

do you skip kyu tests or something?? :D

Nope, no skipping kyus in Belgium....
Do you remember the name of that kendoka? (or maybe the city or dojo he's from, I think I might know who you're talking about...)

[D'Artagnan]

The youngest 4th dan I know (non Japanese) of in Britain, is one of my teachers, he passed on his first attempt when he was 26 years old.

[misterkurukuru]

I was 20 and 2-3 weeks old when i got my 4 dan. geez 5 dan is next year. :ko: good lord, are they going to take my rank back?? hahaha
a 31 year old 6 dan...they would never! hahah

[jmarsten]

I was 20 and 2-3 weeks old when i got my 4 dan. geez 5 dan is next year. :ko: good lord, are they going to take my rank back?? hahaha
a 31 year old 6 dan...they would never! hahah Actually you should not receive 4 dan until 21 because the requirement is 3 dan & 18 years old, so + 3 years=21 minimum age for 4 D. So SCKF broke the AUSKF/IKF regulations in awarding a 20 year old 4 Dan. Don't worry I won't rat you out. On the other subject of 31 and 6th dan, I would have to convert to some religion if this sort of miracle happened in the AUSKF. Generally they are waiting for grey hair to appear before such lofty ranks or you could...........

[misterkurukuru]

my mistake, i took a look at my menjo, i had just turned 21 a few weeks before. my beard boasts many white, blond , red, and black hair...and also crumbs from baja fresh nachos.

[Neil Gendzwill]

On the other subject of 31 and 6th dan, I would have to convert to some religion if this sort of miracle happened in the AUSKF. Generally they are waiting for grey hair to appear before such lofty ranks or you could...........
We've had a couple of pretty young 6th dans here. I think Taro got his around 32 or 33, and Dave Mori was close to the same age. Both under 35 for sure.

The people getting yondan at 21 are mostly nisei kids who have been in the dojo since they could walk. They pass every test through sandan because their skill is already well beyond it. Think about it - for these kids, their shodan test comes after sometimes 8 or even 10 years in the dojo. At yondan and godan they start failing sometimes as their rank finally catches up with their ability, and also because those ranks start to become more than just executing waza.

[Obulco]

In most countries, kendo shodan is a beginner's grade. In some other martial arts, it indicates a fairly high level of skill. I think the problem comes in when people regard a kendo shodan the same way they do a judo shodan - they're apples and oranges.

I think it would be nice to have a consistent standard across all IKF countries. I don't understand why some countries choose to make shodan such a tough standard when even the Japanese don't do that.



I strongly agree. I have been practicing Judo for almost 20 years and recently I began training in Kendo. While both Martial Arts share an important feature (they both put critical emphasis in free practice and therefore in the replication of the “feeling” of real combat) they are very different in form and consequently in the acquisition of rank.

Not even three months into my Kendo training, Sensei advised me to go to a promotion event organized by the USA federation. I went as no rank and came back 3rd Kyu. Applying a Judo (and perhaps other martial arts) mentality, this would make no sense to me since it took me almost two years to achieve the same in Judo when I began. However, a simple look at the Kendo practitioners and their ranks at the dojos I had the fortune to practice give a clear picture of why is that.

A rank system is, after all, a method of communication within a context. It tells you that a group of judges has considered your technique and overall skills at certain level and it gives you some incentive to achieve more. You know that and everybody else around you knows it too. In the context of Fahrenheit, 212 degrees means boiling water while in Celsius is 100. It is the same in these two martial arts. I see a Sandan Sempai in Kendo and I recognize similar comparative skills and capabilities of a Shodan in Judo. It seems to me that this is due to the nature of both. Kendo is minimalist in comparison with Judo. Its goal (and the reason it fascinates me) seems to be the constant refinement and perfecting of a relatively small set of wazas. Judo is vast in comparison. Ippon is achieved by the application of nage, katame, shime and kantsetsu waza (throwing, pinning, choking and joints attacks) and each one is composed of dozens of techniques. In other words, the student of Judo needs to learn a high number of techniques in every step of the rank. So it does not surprises me that in Kendo, the tradition around rank promotion has developed in a slightly different way.

Obulco

[ReKru]

strange that every country /kendo assiciation has its own rules....in germany you start at 6th kyu, and can grade every half year max...

not really that one would need so many kyu's 2 would be enough i guess. one for beginner in bogu who starts to know his way around, one for advanced ... and then 1dan.... japan also doesn't have kyu's.. and kendo anywhy has no yellow, white, red belt etc system so what use is it to have a 6th kyu in your kendo pass?

Well, I think I remember the official reason of the DKenB is, that even if you start as adult, those kids that can go for shodan at 14 and started kendo at 6 or 8 (and you have more and more of them in germany) have a lot of experience when they reach shodan and just 'giving' it away to adults after two years does not guarantee a high standard.

The unofficial reason would probably be, that every exam costs 10€ and making kyu 6-2 optional, would net the association a loss of 50€/kendoka that can skip the exams. That 'Vereins/Verband' stuff is quite particular in Germany, as you should know (versuch mal in der Gesangsverein 'Politik' durchzusteigen) :D

[Isak]

I dont think different standards in kyu are such big a deal. The format for Kendo Shinza is perfectly apt to even out the score eventually. Having to do keiko with other people aspiring to the same grade when grading makes it pretty standardized what level of skill one has after, say, 2nd or 3rd dan.

The difference would maybe be greater if it wasn't for the fact that at least in Europe, most of the higher graded kendokas has to go abroad to grade which I guess makes them aware of the general standard their pupils has to live up to when shodan shinza is closing up.

[JSchmidt]

Well, I think I remember the official reason of the DKenB is, that even if you start as adult, those kids that can go for shodan at 14 and started kendo at 6 or 8 (and you have more and more of them in germany) have a lot of experience when they reach shodan and just 'giving' it away to adults after two years does not guarantee a high standard. :D

Don't give it away then...but follow the ZNKR guidelines..here's the shodan guidelines from the BKA, which should be similar to the ZNKR ones:
Shodan

as above and in addition
Be tidily dressed and wearing bogu correctly

The dress code has been covered but look for baggy keikogi at the back, do himo that aren't tied at the back, for over-long men himo and for kote himo that seem to be coming unravelled. Also pay attention to men himo that are tied trapping the ears. In kendo kata you can see if the keikogi is correctly tied with the yoko musubi. Beginners are very often using club armour and its condition is not always under their control but it's all part of being prepared for the grading. It may be that the dojo leader needs to be approached about preparing his beginners adequately.
Correct chudan kamae and issoku itto ma ai

The shinai tip should be kept in the centre and not allowed to wander around. We should encourage techniques that are planned from toi maai and executed from issoku itto maai and not planned from issoku itto maai and executed from chika maai. Obviously there is an overlap between this and the next requirement, without the correct maai a correct strike cannot be made. Please pay attention to the maai on striking.
Correct cutting

Look at the position of the left hand (in the centre) and of the height of the right arm (extended from the shoulder) on men cuts. Left hand must come above eye height when raising the shinai for a men cut. It is unlikely that do cuts can be made as a shikake waza at this level (if it.s an oji do then it.s more likely to be a panic reaction on being caught half asleep). Look for the position of the elbows on kote cuts which will indicate if the grip is correct or not.
Good kiai, posture and ki ken tai

Kiai shouldn't only be heard when making a strike or thrust but also for building energy and confidence. Posture shouldn't be confused with posing, putting on an act just looks stiff and wooden. Look for changes in direction to indicate good balance, i.e. when starting to cut backwards in kirikaeshi after the tai attari.
Show effective zanshin

Two big indications of poor zanshin are
turning after a men attack with the arms already in chudan kamae - compounded clockwise instead of anti- clockwise and
passing through to the left after a kote attack - compounded by holding chudan kamae while doing so.
Make at least one good point with strong spirit in each shiai A good point in each shiai is, I believe, enough, provided that the point is clean and clear, and not a 60-40 "just about" kind of ippon.
Show the appropriate kata level for shodan



Jakob

[ShinKenshi]

Growing up in Japan, I took judo for several years and everyone followed the kyu system, even adults who just started. My first sensei stressed repetition of very basic moves no matter what rank you are. He said that rank is meaningless if the technique is poor and sloppy. When I told him once about a friend at a different dojo how he, starting from nothing, held my rank within a few weeks (I had been practicing for five years at that point), he said that unless he was exceptional, the potential for him to develop very bad habits was very high and would be difficult to break. The whole purpose of the kyu system, my sensei said, was to ingrain into your mind how to correctly execute the basics and form a very solid base from which you build upon as you improve.

I feel this same mentality should apply in kendo but in this case, it seems to me that young children benefit more from a 6th to 2nd kyu system because they're still developing their hand-eye coordination and they need to develop their strength. For adults that begin kendo, I can see why some dojos don't have an extended kyu system and allow their members to test directly for 1 kyu, provided they have practiced hard and are prepared for it.

That being said, I am preparing to test for 1 kyu in the fall and have been practicing for just a year and a half but have been told by my sensei and a sensei from a neighboring dojo that I look ready for it. I have been told that for 1 kyu, at least under the MWKF, that you are required to put on your bogu before a pannel of judges, perform Ipponme through Sanbonme, and do kirikaeshi. The AUSKF website is a little nebulous as to what is required and says that the test taker has to, "...enter and leave the court correctly, strike with ki-ken-tai-ichi, good energy and 1 or 2 yuko-datotsu." Can someone clarify this for me please?

[Black-Eagle]

In France every one has the 6th kyu at the begining, its like the white belt, then you pass all kyus in your home dojo, a plus and minus system is also used, you have 6th kyu, 6th plus, 5th minus, 5th, 5th plus.......
YOu can only pass the shodan in front of a jury composed of 5 sensei from your region, you must be a licenced kendoka for 3 years and must be 1st kyu for about one year.
This is how grading works in France :)

[Black-Eagle]

OOops i forgot, how can I use a custom avatar?? I just see those stupid animals

[nikolaj]

In France every one has the 6th kyu at the begining, its like the white belt, then you pass all kyus in your home dojo, a plus and minus system is also used, you have 6th kyu, 6th plus, 5th minus, 5th, 5th plus.......
YOu can only pass the shodan in front of a jury composed of 5 sensei from your region, you must be a licenced kendoka for 3 years and must be 1st kyu for about one year.
This is how grading works in France :)
then I guess our system is almost thesame, only we have to take an exam before we're even 6kyu.
((for an avatar you need a specific amount of posts, but you can allready take off the animal one in your profile.))

[Andou]

When my father still lived in Japan, he went to a private dojo that this eccentric (as he put it). This man taught all of the basic things of Kendo and much more. Apparently, he denounced the entire grading system (which means he could still technically be a kyu graded person...) but was very skillful. As ShinKenshi's Judo sensei said, rank can potentially be useless unless the person who holds it can perform up to it. Just my thoughts though.

[piggy]

rank should not matter to one who truely enjoys kendo. they get the best rank they can get but do not obsess over it.

[joekc6nlx]

Back in the mid 70's when I took shotokan karate, my sensei said that for every belt up to shodan, the work was just preparatory. Kind of like you learn your abc's before you learn to read. Once you made shodan, you started to really learn karate. I have discussed this with several other members of my dojo, who are all shodan or higher, and they agree with that assessment.

I look at my studies in kendo as all preparatory work. I missed the last promotion exam for medical reasons, an extreme kendo injury which sidelined me for 6 weeks. Our next promotion opportunity will be sometime this fall, and I will be undergoing my promotion exam then. From there, I will continue to learn, and maybe once I make shodan, the learning curve will steepen.