Kansai Style Men Himo

[soapdish]

Greetings

I had a talk to one of my Sensei and am investigating changing to Kansai tying men himo.

I know that one of the benefits to Kansai is that it is a really really tight fit.

However one of the downsides is that your always one of the slowest.

Has anyone here changed from Kanto to Kansai? If so was it worth it? Also I don't know what to look for when I look for the Kansai tsukugawa, its supposed to be a cross ?

Right now my men fits snug and tight when I use Kanto but when i get hit it does slip now and then. Hence instead of buying a new expensive perfect fitting men I want to invest in Kansai.

Don't get me wrong I tie using Kanto and it is extremely tight. However the stronger members of my dojo can make my men loose after some gigeiko.

Any thoughts?

[Stephen]

Hey William, as your probably aware, I know nothing about tying my men kansai style (although i got the same prob as you with my men slipping after a bit of sweat and a few heavy hits, so I'm interested to hear how you go), but found this pic at http://www.halifaxkendo.org/men.html , so I dont know if one needs a Kansai tsukugawa? I'm hoping someone who ties their himo this way will post soon though



http://www.halifaxkendo.org/images/Men/Men%20016.jpg

[The great I AM]

You need one long menchigawa that goes around the central bar at the top of the men gane, and you need longer men himo as well (8 shaku I think, but I'm not sure, whenever I order I just ask for kansai style men himo, which sucks. I should know!).

As for the fit, it is tighter and alot snugger. I've not had any problems with a moving men since I changed, about 4 years ago. And once you get used to tying it on you can get it on quick as you need to, its only slow if you re thread it every single time you put your hat on!

Hope that helps.

[JSchmidt]

I used it for awhile with my old men, as it started to lose it's shape, but eventually I had to tighten that to headache levels too.
I threaded mine everytime and eventually, could do it faster than most people using kanto-style.
Now, I got a men that fits perfectly and I don't need to tie it tight at all. (And it's tons more comfortable).
Anyways, as Gibbo said you need a 8-shaku men himo and a special menchigawa.

Jakob

[Theodore]

Hey William, as your probably aware, I know nothing about tying my men kansai style (although i got the same prob as you with my men slipping after a bit of sweat and a few heavy hits, so I'm interested to hear how you go), but found this pic at http://www.halifaxkendo.org/men.html , so I dont know if one needs a Kansai tsukugawa? I'm hoping someone who ties their himo this way will post soon though
http://www.halifaxkendo.org/images/Men/Men%20016.jpg

Here is a kendo manual (http://http://www.idaho-kendo.com/Kendo/Bogu/kendo_equip_manual.pdf)which Stroud-sensei has posted on his website. See page 41 of same for how to tie your men Kansai style. BTW, Stroud-sensei has (at least) 2 men and one of them he ties Kansai style. Good luck.

[Paikea]

I switched recently and (for me) it's much better. I used to have to put a folded tenugui under my chin to get my eyes looking through the mengane properly, had trouble with the men loosening up late in practice, etc. and all of these have been corrected. Yes, it takes longer to tie, but I'm finding some tricks to make it go a bit faster. I'm also making a blunt "hook" from an old shinai take (that will fit in the nafuda) to see if it will help speed things up. I also have found that I can get the men to feel more secure, but with noticeably fewer pressure points that tended to give me a headache - I'm guessing that that's because the increased number of himo contacts spreads the force out over a larger area.

[projectnavi]

Here is a kendo manual (http://http://www.idaho-kendo.com/Kendo/Bogu/kendo_equip_manual.pdf)which Stroud-sensei has posted on his website. See page 41 of same for how to tie your men Kansai style. BTW, Stroud-sensei has (at least) 2 men and one of them he ties Kansai style. Good luck.


could you possibly send that link again, it doesn't seem to be working.

[Berugijin]

could you possibly send that link again, it doesn't seem to be working.

http://www.idaho-kendo.com/Kendo/Bogu/kendo_equip_manual.pdf

(Found through google at Idaho Kendo Kai's website)

[Mamma Mia]

I switched recently and (for me) it's much better. I used to have to put a folded tenugui under my chin to get my eyes looking through the mengane properly, had trouble with the men loosening up late in practice, etc. and all of these have been corrected. Yes, it takes longer to tie, but I'm finding some tricks to make it go a bit faster. I'm also making a blunt "hook" from an old shinai take (that will fit in the nafuda) to see if it will help speed things up. I also have found that I can get the men to feel more secure, but with noticeably fewer pressure points that tended to give me a headache - I'm guessing that that's because the increased number of himo contacts spreads the force out over a larger area.

I also have to put a folded tenugui under my chin. Do you use a special Kansai style leather strap or just the standard one?

[projectnavi]

http://www.idaho-kendo.com/Kendo/Bogu/kendo_equip_manual.pdf

(Found through google at Idaho Kendo Kai's website)


thanks alot, berugijin.

[Paikea]

I also have to put a folded tenugui under my chin. Do you use a special Kansai style leather strap or just the standard one?I use the kansai style one. You can use either, but the "special" one is a bit longer and has a third slot cut in it so that the strap can wrap around the top of the mengane and not slip to either side. It cost about $12-14 I think.

[Mamma Mia]

I use the kansai style one. You can use either, but the "special" one is a bit longer and has a third slot cut in it so that the strap can wrap around the top of the mengane and not slip to either side. It cost about $12-14 I think.

Thanks, will try that tonight.

[binni]

2 questions about kansai:

Do you always have to start from the complete beginning when tying the himo (i.e., from the menchigawa),or can the himo be pre-wrapped around the back already (into the X)? I mean, do you put your head in first and then wrap it around the back, or can you bring the himo around back first, then stick your head in and continue to wrap around the nodo, etc. Does anyone pre-thread it completely and then just stick their head in and tighten all the appropriate places before tying? (sorry about the awkward phrasing! don't know how else to describe it...)

Also, how low should the himo be tied in the back? I retied my men in kansai tonight, and the himo was a little lower than when I tie in kanto. It felt pretty tight around my throat... kinda felt a bit choked. Was wondering if that's because the himo level is too low or if it's normal for kansai and something you get used to.

[Masahiro]

personally, i think the issue you have with himo(s) being too tight around the neck is just something you are gonna have to get used to. However, I would also like to suggest that the himo should be crossed at the very top of the nodo. Just touching or over lapping a little of the black lacqured part of the mengane. Also, I know there are ways you can pre-thread the himo so that it you can put it on faster. But I personally start from the very beginning every time, because that's how I make sure the himo doesn't press against my years and also helps me to achiever the optimum tightness I want. Remember though, there is such things as tying your men too tight, especially with the himo being wrapped 3 times around the top of your head. So just practice with it every night and you will get the hang of it.

oh and the knot is suppose to be lower than the knot you would form with the Kansai style tying method.