Gratest samurai

[mononokifool]

who in your opinion was the gratest samurai during the gempei(i was not sure how to spell) wars.

[ISSAC RU]

Tom Cruise

[mononokifool]

haha funny funny but that isnt even close in the last samurai that was during the meiji era looks like you know your history

[mononokifool]

i dont hink you will get very much respect talking about that movie eaither

[Jacynth]

umm, you spelt Greatest Wrong.

[Pan-Chan]

i dont hink you will get very much respect talking about that movie eaither

I don't see why he would get respect talking about any movie, first of all; unless he made the movie and it was well done. I'm also not sure if you meant that to mean 'The Last Samurai' wasn't a good movie of something, but it was actually the most accurate portrayal of samurai in a movie for some time, in my opinion. So I think mentioning that movie is fine. Besides, I'm pretty sure he was joking around.

Anyways, that was just my two cents, I didn't mean any disrespect incase you were offended by my comment. ^^;

[nikolaj]

wow, 6 posts allready and musashi hasn't been mentioned yet^^
Seriously though, I don't know, I know very little of actual japanese history...

[WolfofMibu]

musashi was one of the greatest samurai there ever was. i couldnt say he was the greatest because everyone has opinions but he was certainly one of the best. Tsukahara Bokuden was also one of the best swordsman of the sengoku period.

[mononokifool]

no disrespect but the last samurai does not represent that time very good because if you know anything about that time you would know that the opposing samurai hated foreigners and would never have let one join there side. i mean the foreigners were the ones trying to change the way japan was being ruled...but anywase i dont know if this samurai was in the gempei wars but of course oda nobunaga or uesugi kenshin

[Miles]

Kato Kiyomasa. Establised his reputation at the battle of Shizugatake and was know as one of the Seven Spears of Shizugatake. His motto and war cry was "Hail to the Lotus of the Divine Law." Kato Kiyomasa was commander of the Japanese Second Division during Hideyoshi's invasion of Korea, also known as the Imjin Waeran in Korea (1592-1598). He also was known from time to time to take up his spear while on campaign and go hunting for tigers! He is sometimes pictured with tiger skins.

[Pan-Chan]

no disrespect but the last samurai does not represent that time very good because if you know anything about that time you would know that the opposing samurai hated foreigners and would never have let one join there side. i mean the foreigners were the ones trying to change the way japan was being ruled...but anywase i dont know if this samurai was in the gempei wars but of course oda nobunaga or uesugi kenshin

I understand that, but like I said, in my opinion, it most accurately portrays samurai, as in the devotion and passion to and for budo. Especially for something that was meant more to be a cinematic feature rather than a documentary; it was based on historical events, though. Also, though this is somewhat off the topic I was explaining my perspective on, I'm not sure how just you are in saying they would "never have let one join their side." I mean I can agree with that on many levels, but if the situation shown in that movie was infact the true happening, then I could see the samurai using every available resource to up their odds of doing just what you mentioned, stopping the rule of Japan from changing.

But to stop this topic from becoming one of those "Kendoka vs. European Fencer"-like threads, I'll end my commenting there; nothing wrong with a good conversation, but it seems somewhat pointless to keep going when opinions are what is really being talked about, since it's really nothing that can be proven right or wrong. :)

[hamish]

Yeah, he grated a bit, didn't he? :)

Tom Cruise

[Philippe]

who in your opinion was the gratest samurai during the gempei(i was not sure how to spell) wars.
For that period, I'd have to say Nasu no Yoichi Munetaka.

[SkippyDaStudent]

Kato Kiyomasa.

My vote as well.

[mononokifool]

ok here is another question what time peroid produced the best samurai. was it during the wars when they could test there skills in battle or during peactime whent they had there whole lifes to perfect the art of the sword.

[Taisaburo]

I would say Minamoto Yoshitsune.

[Philippe]

I would say Minamoto Yoshitsune.
But that's too easy! Besides, Benkei did all the cool stuff... :wink:

(Pedantic aside: It's Minamoto no Yoshitsune.)

[KhawMengLee]

But that's too easy! Besides, Benkei did all the cool stuff... :wink:


Yeah, Good old DevilBoy (http://www.planetgeorge.com/images/martial/benkei.jpg) rocks!

[Miles]

Benkei doesn't count, he wasn't a samurai.

[Yiu Fai]

wow, 6 posts allready and musashi hasn't been mentioned yet^^
Seriously though, I don't know, I know very little of actual japanese history...

Musashi may have been a legendary swordsman, but he wasn't a good samurai, as most of us should know he was a ronin

[nikolaj]

Musashi may have been a legendary swordsman, but he wasn't a good samurai, as most of us should know he was a ronin
right, my bad, I interpreted tyhe question as who was the better japanese swordsman^^

[Philippe]

Benkei doesn't count, he wasn't a samurai.
Precisely!

Musashi may have been a legendary swordsman, but he wasn't a good samurai, as most of us should know he was a ronin
A rōnin is still a samurai, merely one on the lowest rung of that particular social class' ladder.

He doesn't qualify because the original question specified the Genpei wars as a time period. That's about 400 years before Musashi. It also disqualifies a few other notable samurai mentioned elsethread, such as Katō Kiyomasa.

[SkippyDaStudent]

It also disqualifies a few other notable samurai mentioned elsethread, such as Katō Kiyomasa.

Gar! Then I have to go with Minamoto no Yoritomo.

[Kingofmyrrh]

... rōnin... Katō Kiyomasa...
Nice macron skills!
Err, anyway, I'll choose Taira no Koremori. What a refined chap!

[Philippe]

It also disqualifies a few other notable samurai mentioned elsethread, such as Katō Kiyomasa.Gar! Then I have to go with Minamoto no Yoritomo.
He could have done a better job of ensuring his succession, however. :)

... rōnin... Katō Kiyomasa...Nice macron skills!
I'm a 10th dan macronist! :D

Err, anyway, I'll choose Taira no Koremori. What a refined chap!
Refined? Perhaps, but for the period, he doesn't strike me as much of a samurai. He'd have made a great aristocrat, though.

[Daidreken]

no disrespect but the last samurai does not represent that time very good because if you know anything about that time you would know that the opposing samurai hated foreigners and would never have let one join there side. i mean the foreigners were the ones trying to change the way japan was being ruled...but anywase i dont know if this samurai was in the gempei wars but of course oda nobunaga or uesugi kenshin

Uesugi kenshin was indeed a great Daymio and a Lord to his ppl and as my hero i can say manythings about Uesugi Kenshin but first id like to state that
Oda was a Diplomatical Coward who would

A. poverdise his own ppl to attain futher status whith the wealth
B. abandon his morality and his verry own religion just to gain advanced military support from foriegn countries

or c. taking up the recruitment of simple farm boys only to place them on the front line of his battle field wiht no training or pretty much even body armor for that matter

sorry the correct answer would be D. all of hte above and about the first one, if you dont want to believe me go ahead and trust the books.. if you dont do ur reasearch you may even get ur name in one of em.. despite what was reccorded by hystorical documentaion im putting to geather two on two aobut how he treated hsi ppl.. and believe me they were poor ^^


back to Uesugi Kenhin.. i have alot to say over time but not here and now if you want to kno why i love him so much read him up on wikipedia.. also try playingteh takeda game for pc and im not alone when i mention

"if Uesugi and Tekeda had not gone to war" Takeda would not have fallen
i follow it up by saing

"if Uesugi Kenshin had not passed away so soon the Wda would not have won"

[mononokifool]

Uesugi kenshin was indeed a great Daymio and a Lord to his ppl and as my hero i can say manythings about Uesugi Kenshin but first id like to state that
Oda was a Diplomatical Coward who would

A. poverdise his own ppl to attain futher status whith the wealth
B. abandon his morality and his verry own religion just to gain advanced military support from foriegn countries

or c. taking up the recruitment of simple farm boys only to place them on the front line of his battle field wiht no training or pretty much even body armor for that matter

sorry the correct answer would be D. all of hte above and about the first one, if you dont want to believe me go ahead and trust the books.. if you dont do ur reasearch you may even get ur name in one of em.. despite what was reccorded by hystorical documentaion im putting to geather two on two aobut how he treated hsi ppl.. and believe me they were poor ^^


back to Uesugi Kenhin.. i have alot to say over time but not here and now if you want to kno why i love him so much read him up on wikipedia.. also try playingteh takeda game for pc and im not alone when i mention

"if Uesugi and Tekeda had not gone to war" Takeda would not have fallen
i follow it up by saing

"if Uesugi Kenshin had not passed away so soon the Wda would not have won"

wow that quote of mine is from like 2 years ago and i am embarrassed by my grammar :confused2. But you have to understand that there were no rules in war and Oda wanted to unite Japan under one shogunate. I dont think he was a bad man, i think he was a great general.


Also my favorite samurai would have to be the 47 ronin.

[Lady_Kitsune]

I have to say Tomoe Gozen, she was a great archer, but also an incredible swordsman, a great general and a leyendary warrior.

[ScottUK]

I think it is this guy:

http://www.weloveart.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/kyuzo_comp.jpg

[ScottUK]

Hmm, the [IMG] tags don't work...

[samurai80]

Actually, Nobunaga seems like any other leader. He was also pretty intelligent, and unifying Japan under one shogunate doesn't seem like too bad of an idea. He also went out like a badass (if the story is true). Anyway, can't believe I even typed in this thread. "Who was the greatest samurai?". This whole conversation can only get dorkier (new word).

[mononokifool]

I think it is this guy:

http://www.weloveart.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/kyuzo_comp.jpg
i think we have a winner

[yoda-waza]

Many responses are off just a tad in time. The Gempei War (1180-85) was toward the end of the Heian era, hundreds of years before so many of the persons mentioned.

An example of the error:

Question: Who do you think was the greatest general of the American Revolutionary War?

Response: Dwight Eisenhower.

[Kenzan]

The greatest Samurai would undoubtedly be the one that no songs where sung of,
no poems written of,
-and no lasting histories recorded.

Such is most always the way with the truly remarkable.

[absenteekendoka]

The greatest Samurai would undoubtedly be the one that no songs where sung of,
no poems written of,
-and no lasting histories recorded.

Such is most always the way with the truly remarkable.

I agree. Some men lead, yet many more did the fighting, fought for change, fought for many things......

[yoda-waza]

The greatest Samurai would undoubtedly be the one that no songs where sung of,
no poems written of,
-and no lasting histories recorded.

Such is most always the way with the truly remarkable.

... and if a tree falls in the forest but no one is there to hear it, does it still make a sound?

[Kenzan]

... and if a tree falls in the forest but no one is there to hear it, does it still make a sound?

The tree still produces vibrations through the air as it falls, but since "sound" is the interpretation of the brain to stimulus of signals received by auditory apparatus designed to do so, then answer is that no sound is heard if there is no auditory/brain apparatus present to interpret it as such.

But since we are to kill the buddha on the road if we ever where to meet him, the correct answer to that koan would be:

A fluffy lemonade-flavored squid.

:D

[yoda-waza]

Ahhh! Such is most always the way with the truly remarkable!

[corwyn]

I think my brain just exploded. (there was a small pop in my head)

[Kenzan]

.....fought for change.

You are not kidding.












I think back in the day I made something like $600.00 a month as a soldier.

[Kagerou]

The greatest Samurai would undoubtedly be the one that no songs where sung of,
no poems written of,
-and no lasting histories recorded.

Such is most always the way with the truly remarkable.

He's the guy who did his job and said nothing about it. Didn't become famous and thusly a target then lived a quiet retirement with his wife and wee ones.

...I think his name was Joe.

[Niitsu Kyuzo]

I honestly don't know of more than a few famous warriors from the Gempei War. Nothing compared to the Sengoku Jidai or after. I would actually like to know more about that myself. You have to really dig deep to find an abundant source of information on samurai before the 1300s.

[absenteekendoka]

You are not kidding.












I think back in the day I made something like $600.00 a month as a soldier.

Must spread rep......... :)

[Calimar]

Kyuzo from the Seven Samurai isn't it? Definitely agreed.

EDIT: I missed a couple pages, I'd say.

[Berserker]

You are not kidding.












I think back in the day I made something like $600.00 a month as a soldier.


I found a picture of kenzan's soldier days... good old times!!! (http://newmedia.funnyjunk.com/pictures/squirrelarmymedal.jpg)..

[Manuka]

The greatest Samurai would undoubtedly be the one that no songs where sung of,
no poems written of,
-and no lasting histories recorded.

Such is most always the way with the truly remarkable.

I agree, may have had such awesome zanshin he never even had to draw his sword.

[Dervish]

The greatest samurai is that one in ancient Japan who attacked giant enemy crabs by hitting their weak spots for massive damage. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g1fr5vk72M)

[absenteekendoka]

I found a picture of kenzan's soldier days... good old times!!! (http://newmedia.funnyjunk.com/pictures/squirrelarmymedal.jpg)..

Hahahahahaaa!!!!!! He is the squirrel master!!!! This thing just wont die. :) ;)
Kenzan, master of the holding my nuts ryu.

[absenteekendoka]

I have realized who the greatest samurai is....truly it is Kenzan......for surely he's going to tsuki me to death for helping keep the squirrel suit legend alive..........sorry man, and yes your welcome to tsuki at your convinience.......and even wearing a squirrel suit.....how do you tie the tare with that tail in the way though? :)

[Takezo]

Minamoto is probably the only one I'm familiar with enough to give such a claim, but thus is the nature of difference. Musashi to me just stands out as being that unearthly sword-saint, not so much what I picture of Samurai. And its also a question of what you're judging the samurai by, success in battles (to which Musashi's experiences were questionable (?)) or their overall image of the samurai caste, such as the 47 ronin.
Either way,
The greatest Samurai would undoubtedly be the one that no songs where sung of,
no poems written of,
-and no lasting histories recorded.

Such is most always the way with the truly remarkable.

Such is true, especially concerning giant crab battles in Japanese history...

And the unsung war hero, Jimmy McPerson...
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk288/IamPlaneHURR/nguyen2.jpg

[Dervish]

Miura Anjin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miura_Anjin)

[Kendoka_Han]

Hiroyuki Sanada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroyuki_Sanada)

[ScottUK]

William Adams (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Adams_%28sailor%29)

[Dervish]

William Adams (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Adams_%28sailor%29)

That's who I said. :laugh:

[Ookami7]

Since a previous post touched a bit on Shishi vrs Bakufu forces. Actually not all shishi were anti foreigner during the bakumatsu. Case in point is Sakamoto Ryoma. All though intially supported the party line persay of expelling the foreigners. Later on before being assinated, he actually became friends with Thomas Glover, a Brit national living in Nagasaki doing international trade and of course gun running as well. Glover actually hid Ryoma a couple of times in his house. Has a hidden trap door into loft if I remeber correctly. Can still see it today in Nagasaki. Also Glover helped arm the shishi factions with rifles, (maybe cannons) and at least 1 naval boat that Sakamoto actually commanded in a naval engagement. As far as I know there are 2 books in print in English that details Sakamoto`s life.

[yoda-waza]

Well that about wraps up this thread: The Greatest Samurai from the early period of Japanese history from before they were called samurai to the waning years when they became extinct as a class. The same dozen or so names continue to show up for those eight-plus centuries. "Reader's Digest Condensed Samurai History" or "Cliff's Notes on Greatest Samurai of Japan" - I'm not sure which we have produced here.

[rookie3]

Lone Wolf and Cub