Role of breath control

[Kendo Spirit]

In reference to your breathing techniques article, I would just like to add some stuff I learnt from watching documentaries and reading.

you wont find that much on breathing by just researching budo martial arts because it isn't emphasied as much as it is in shaolin martial arts.

if you look into shaolin kung fu, they study chi and internal breathing you can find a lot more info on the 'true role' of breathing and how it serves in kung fu! e.g. how breathing relates to gathering chi, meditation, energizing the spirit etc. Shaolin monk are the true masters of Chi.

I dont know if you really want to go into that since its not japanese martial arts though.

most martial arts today originated from shaolin temple, when styles of martial arts were learnt from shaolin, a lot of knowledge carried away from the temple was lost or modified, details were lost as it was handed down from master to student. That is probably why its not so much emphasized in some Dojos today and also the spiritual side of things too, again that depends on your master.

but I think it would help your kendo a lot if you were to learn it, since kiai is part of it already.

Apart from just kiai, most dojo's wouldn't even understand much about breathing, zen or chi, they would just know to kiai. to do something and to understand it are two different things.

but your right about one thing in this article, it does tie into kendo if you were to look at the samurai how influenced they were by Zen and its philosophy.

[Paikea]

This is interesting - the guy who has ripped off this site as his own has the stones to lay down commentary on legitimate research?

[Hisham]

This is interesting - the guy who has ripped off this site as his own has the stones to lay down commentary on legitimate research?
Tell me about it.

BTW KendoSpirit, the "masters" of chi and internal martial arts are from Wudang shan originally or Chen village not Shaolin which arts are mostly considered external since they involve hardening the body though of course they have chi gung exercises in there curiculum. Shaolin monks at many points in time invited masters to learn from them, so saying that all martial arts stemed from Shaolin is an overstatement which even the shaolin monks wouldn't utter.

[kendospirit]

woah theres alot of unfriendly people here. (but I wont sink to your level).

Paikea theres really no need for that attitude
'I did copy' text of an article and saved it, but before I even got a chance to read it or even edit it to completion, I suddenly was this evil plagurising monster, which was upsetting because it wasn't my intent.
I assume the person at the time couldnt control his emotions and lashed out in a irrational manner which I understand wouldn't be surprising.

hisham your right about what you said about wu shu. I am merely discussing so take it easy we can have a intelligent conversation, I should clarify better that I didn't mean that shaolin temple invented it all, I was just speaking in reference to kungfu with shaolin influence.

if you are interested:
At the beginning the monks of shaolin got slaughtered by bandits and suffered being good people, however it was a budhist monk who came to their rescue and taught them how to defend themselves. from then on everyone from all over the place came to the temple to share knowledge with teach each other, think of it as a global library.
anyway Moral of the story is its good to learn from everything, not 1 style holds it all.
Then on, the emperor got so scared of monks being so powerful they ambushed the temple killing all the monks, the young and old. Interesting isnt it?
Wu shu wasnt the only school to practice those breathing chi techniques, there where many other schools of shaolin, and other temples located in the north and south I think.


ummm kendo is in a different area though, I was just commenting to the editor about some stuff I have heard of in relation to breathing. I do know this is KENDO WORLD
so take it easy, I'm not out to criticise, although it seems to be a trend in here.

And I would like to know is there something that should be taught in kendo
for breathing as well, all I know is that kiai will help you to continue to breath while practicing.

but anyway like I said i'm in the wrong forum to discuss this topic.
It seems that if you dont conform with the majorities views in here you get crucified.

so I would dare not to speak anymore. peace

[Paikea]

You play the "innocent martyr" poorly. "The person at the time" was the man who owns the copyright on the material. I'm not being unfriendly, it's just that you seem to have nothing (original, insightful or otherwise) to say - beyond instigation of another round of poor-poor-pitiful me. You make unfounded, ludicrous statements as if they were fact, then backpedal and try to claim that you're just trying to start a discussion, and how your true and noble intentions are just misunderstood.

I repeat, you've got one hell of a lot of nerve posting that tripe in critique of people who actually do research and publish their findings after you've already ripped these same people off.

[kendospirit]

I wasnt criticising. I ddint say poor pity me, it was just a misunderstanding.

I didn't mention anywhere along the lines that the articles was bad or poorly written. I thought the article was interesting and this was just some other stuff i would like to add on in relation to it. this thread was here to discuss articles and im discussing it.

your one angry fellow arent you? hahahaha

[#2 mouse]

Inhale.....hold....exhale....(repeat)

[kendospirit]

lol @ mouse.

mouse do you have any other interesting breathing technique similar to that one?

[#2 mouse]

In my dojo during practice we often do some breathing exercises.

After we have done suburi or some other exercise to really get the respiration rate up we will stop and do this:

Chudan, then slowly raise to Jodan while breathing in. Hold for a couple of seconds. Then exhale while going to Sonkyo. Hold. Then inhale while going from Sonkyo to Jodan. We usually repeat this 3 or 4 times and then move on.

Our teacher stresses that you should control your breathing during kendo. When ever you prepare to strike you should inhale. This is so that when you strike you can exhale. Makes sense because you are supposed to kiai. Also that you are vulnerable when you inhale, so do it wisely.

[kendospirit]

oh yeah we do that as well.
I still find it hard to keep the breathing steady when Im all puffed out.
:S
I guess I have to work on it a little more

[#2 mouse]

You're not the only one. Our teacher worked us so hard the other day that I just about got sick from going into oxygen debt. Of course if I learned to breathe a little bit better then I wouldn't have quite that problem.

[joekc6nlx]

Since I'm a bit more advanced in years than most of the people on this forum, I find my stamina is somewhat lacking. I started kendo about 16 months ago, and during that time, had built my stamina up to where I could keep up with most of the training during keiko. Then, the evil groin pull monster attacked.....when it finally healed, my stamina was completely gone.

I started riding my bicycle for time, not distance, and tried to keep my pedalling about 70 cycles per minute. I live at the top of a hill, so anywhere I go, it's downhill, but then, to get home, I have to pedal back up the hill. I won't say it's easy, but it certainly has helped my stamina, my legs (especially quads and calves), and best of all, I'm losing weight!!!!

I find that during the warmups, in which we do haya suburi near the end of warmups, I can breathe better, and I'm not so short of breath. I've also tried to yell during keiko, so that I'm forced to breathe. When I first got into bogu, I would be so self-conscious of the do around my midsection that I'd forget to breathe, or would start to hyperventilate and would almost pass out.

I would be running, but my orthopaedist forbids it because I have a partial removal of the medial meniscus cartilage in my right knee. So, I do the next best thing, hit the road on my bike. I'm no Lance Armstrong, and don't even try to emulate him. My routine is for my benefit, not to win a trophy. I also take a kayak out onto the local lakes and paddle around to help build up my oblique muscles. I try to do exercises that are fun as well as beneficial, and those are mostly cardio exercises.

My stamina has improved over the last few months to where I am able to continue keiko in full bogu and perform two 5 minute matches in jigeiko. After that, I'm so beat, I can hardly move, but I keep trying to get to that 3rd match in jigeiko, maybe with my sensei.

Long post to this thread, don't mean to sound long-winded, but anything that I do outside of kendo that improves my kendo is great.

[#2 mouse]

Time....

It's my biggest reason for not doing other training. There is just not enough of it in a day.

At least now I usually get to practice kendo twice a week instead of only once a week as I did for the first four months I was practicing.

[Mokuso]

perhaps you could ride a bike to work every morning if you cbf lol

[#2 mouse]

Although I do enjoy cycling and have been an avid cyclist in the past I don't think that I coud do the 36 miles EACH WAY back and forth to work. Also it's about 25 miles to my dojo from either home or work.

Even if I could make it I don't have the time it takes (2+hrs) each way.

[Alidax]

IMHO the breathing is very important in kendo. However as I realised you can't control it only by building stamina. My senpai(/sensei) told me once that I should use abdominal breathing during jigeiko. It would make a big change. Obviously I can't do it. There are so much going on during the jigeiko, the breathing is the last thing what I can control... So I started to use it when I do kirikaeshi. I wouldn't say I would be able to do kirikaeshi for 20 minutes continually but already can feel the difference. The best advice what I can give is try.


joekc6nlx, we are all so proud of you! However I think kendo needs different stamina. The only way how you can improve it is more kakarigeiko and jigeiko. You have to throw yourself to the training. Give everything. Using the old words 'Always train as hard as you can'.

[mad_god]

And I would like to know is there something that should be taught in kendo
for breathing as well, all I know is that kiai will help you to continue to breath while practicing.


Kata in any forms: kendo kata, kenjutsu, iai will help you to coordinate and improve your breath and mind control.

MG

[Hotei]

I sit zazen* every morning (for about 26 years, now), and several times a week I do an excersize that could best be described as "running suburi". Now that we're in the new dojo (http://www.springwinddojo.com/) (shameless plug) I can go in whenever I want to the gym and do my excersize. I jog slowly with my suburito alternating swings. It has built up my stamina, but even more so it has built up my timing.

Hasn't been too bad for the biceps, either. :)

*For those with zero experience with zazen, it's a very simple (well. . .) seated meditation that focuses on the breath. That is a gross over-simplification, but you get the idea. Regardless, I feel as though I have really good breath control because of it.

These excersizes in conjunction with the fact that the gym where we "warm up" before entering the dojo (gym big, dojo small) has no climate control makes breath control a matter of "you can practice or you can't practice".

Abe-sensei likes the gym, because it reminds him of the school dojo where he started kendo. That being said, if it's 90 degrees in the shade, it's 90 degrees in the gym, minus what I like to call "air flow". :wink: If your breath work is bad, you simply can't keep up.

I can't speak to breath/ki during shiai; I simply don't have enough experience. I'd like to hear someone's take on it, though ~

[don don]

lol @ mouse.

mouse do you have any other interesting breathing technique similar to that one?

1) Stand one foot in front of wall
2) breathe in
3) breathe out and bang head against wall
4) repeat until calm and your "chi" is once again balanced

I sometimes feel a strange need to do this after reading some threads here. It's great.