Shin Ken-do..what do you think??

[kawa]

Have any person here visited “shinkendo dojo”?! I’ve met one of senior student from California Dojo. They seems to all oppose to our Kendo technique. According to this person, his Sensei (the founder) -Obata Toshishiro Kaiso says, “Kendo is a sport of stick fighting and our moment is all base on linear moment which no real applications”. True / False??


He is… 4 Dan in Shinkendo
I am… 2 Dan in Kendo, therefore I chose not to confront him with my limited knowledge of his art.


Like to know what you guys thinks?
:confused:

[Charlie]

I understand. I have actually gotten to know quite a bit about it from hanging around www.e-budo.com and www.swordforum.com . One of Obata's senior students, Nathan Scott, posts there quite frequently.

I disagree with shinkendo's philosophy but it's a "to each his/her own" situation, although you will run into people from both sides who think their way is the only way.

If you want to get under your shinkendo buddy's skin tell him in an innocent voice that you thought shinkendo was "movie sword fighting* mixed with aikido" and no real combat applications. Also, ask him why they don't "spar" or do some other kind of "randori." He'll give you the usual line about "better to do pre-arranged forms with intensity than to 'spar' with sticks."

When I first got on the internet I thought there was only one true path to swordsmanship, now with a bit more experience I realize that's not true. Of course there are frauds (Tew ryu) but the difference between shinkendo and kendo is a matter of differing philosophies. My opinion: kendo + iaido + koryu (if possible) = swordsmanship.


*Obata kaiso has been an actor and consultant for martial arts in films.

[Charlie]

P.S. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but many or most of the senior sword masters in Japan are active kendo-ka as well as koryu practitioners. So that would put Obata on the fringe rather than in the mainstream. I respect him, of course, but don't buy into an American inflating his ideas and coming off that theirs is the only true version.

[kawa]

Few minuets ago I’ve visited their Web site http://www.shinkendo.com/pics.html
Charlie- I think you are 100% correct. I have nothing to say. Perhas I should ask this guy “our client”, to put on a Bogu for a little Keigo? Hehhe…Let’s see who’s application “REALLY” works. lol

[CEB]

I understand where Shinkendo people are coming from. If you attempt tamashigiri with a properly executed Do strike with Kendo Ki Ken Tai you may have some problems with your cutting. Kendo attacks are strikes and not cuts. The use of the hip and various other elements of cutting just are not there. My Eishin teacher has done some Shinkendo and he will pull out some of there kumitachi exercises once in a while at class. Shinkendo has some interesting drills. If I could only study one sword art it would be Kendo. I enjoy kendo even though I really really suck. But as far as actually application it seems that any sword art seem to be lacking in that department in the 21st century. A forty five stops all jive :)

Since I'm not really a kendo-ka I'll go back to lurk status now. Have a good weekend.

[kawa]

My Sensei(s) always remembers us that we are using a “SWORD”. You use hammer to STRIKES and your sword to CUT. We spent average of no less than a half of hour every practice, learning how to push and release our grips, right before and after the cut to prevent the heavy hitter developing bad habit of striking a target rather than cutting.


It seems to me that Shinkendo concentrated on the cutting down “stuff” any stuff, even tatami floorboard rather than when to cut?! Is that a correct observation?

[Charlie]

QUOTE]Originally posted by CEB
If you attempt tamashigiri with a properly executed Do strike with Kendo Ki Ken Tai you may have some problems with your cutting.[/QUOTE]

True, you may have some problems cutting a tatame roll, but I'll wager you cut flesh just fine!

This is not to mock what you said, CEB*, so forgive me. As I said earlier, a compleat practice of swordsmanship, in my view, would include, under the best of circumstances, kendo + iaido + a sword koryu (if possible). As it is, we take what we can get when we get it.

But CEB also makes a good point. Shouldn't a dialogue with arts like shinkendo encourage kendo-ka to re-examine their own arts and strengthen them? If we as kendoists don't know what it means to wield a live blade, maybe we should take steps to do so.

BTW, here's a great link to some videos of shinkendo.

http://www.tsuki-kage.com/library.html






*Are you the same CEB of e-budo, my friend?

[Old Warrior]

"A forty five stops all jive"

And you become a black belt the instant you learn to load the magazine and rack the slide.

Nevertheless, the mindset one develops from sword art training, is most useful when the stuff hits the fan. Even then, with 45 in hand, you need to have your wits about you.

[kendokamax]

Shin kendo? looks like it's not for everybody!!
well not for me at least.

[CEB]

Originally posted by Charlie

True, you may have some problems cutting a tatame roll, but I'll wager you cut flesh just fine!

This is not to mock what you said, CEB*, so forgive me. As I said earlier, a compleat practice of swordsmanship, in my view, would include, under the best of circumstances, kendo + iaido + a sword koryu (if possible). As it is, we take what we can get when we get it.

But CEB also makes a good point. Shouldn't a dialogue with arts like shinkendo encourage kendo-ka to re-examine their own arts and strengthen them? If we as kendoists don't know what it means to wield a live blade, maybe we should take steps to do so.
...

*Are you the same CEB of e-budo, my friend?


Yes, Charlie it me. I didn't have a sig setup because I don't post here but I do like to read peoples the post on waza and training drills.

Your pont about dialogue is a good one. Cross training after a certain point is cool if you have the time. It also depends on your personal goals regarding Kendo. If your goal is to being the best kendo player then you should just focus on only Kendo. I'm just a social kendo-ka I like to to play and learn so cross training is good for me. I think it is important to have a firm foundation in your first art before you go out investigating others. (or in my case you do kendo so long and after a while they say no hope for you go do iaijutsu :) ) We have had Kendo newbies trying to start in out in our MJER class about the same time. I know it would have been too much for me but I am a bear of little brain. I started out in Kendo first.

Actually the tatami used for tamashigiri are soaked in water over night. These are used because this is suppose to accurately simulate the cutting of flesh. I can't really vouch for the true accuracy of the comparison. I haven't cut human flesh, ( well i cut my thumb a little bit with a careless noto once) so I don't really know.

Back to lurk mode.

Take care everybody.

Ed Boyd

[Hyaku]

Perhaps I can help as I have more than Yondan in Battojutsu, Kendo, and Iai.

Sword ways have developed into facets. Kendo is one, Batto is another. There are more of course Iaido etc. All these facets have similarities and also things we can practice and learn if we wish to become adept in more than one or try to understand and improve the facet we do.

So I would add Battojutsu to Charlies list...

There are many areas in Japan that go for this more than Iai. But it does have a post war image that it has a job to shake off connected with satsujinken and katsujinken. As the possible image of the sword as a weapon for execution are self evident some would want to shy away from it and some will tell you that its not necessary.

Obata Sensei's background is in Aiki and Toyama Ryu (Sword techniques taught to Japanese Military) and other things. Not only can he use a sword but he can quickly take yours off you and have you on your back before you can blink. He specializes in cutting ability and not fencing. Obata Sensei had moved to America some time ago and formed an association based on his experience.

His old boss was Hayashi Kunishiro Sensei who is also the man that runs my Batto Association.

Hayashi Sensei runs Wakakoma Pro. A group of tatateshi they are very experienced martial artists that do all
the fight sequences for films and TV Dramas as stand ins and also teach the lead roles a few basics to make them look good.

Anyone watching the latest Musashi drama will be looking at Hayashi Sensei's recent big project. This is well respected work. A lot of well known Iai teachers including some of Oe Sensei's students did this work and sadly one of the reasons that silly things like chiburui and noto are so flambouyant nowadays. If any thing batto is far more cut and dried (forgive the pun). You cut, move out of range, wipe the blade and put it away.

What differs is as somebody mentioned the Kikentai-ichi. But how would every one wish to interpret Ki, Ken, Tai, Ichi? Cutting as one? All together with the same timing?

In Batto, Kenjutsu and classical forms it is essential that power is generated from the hips/hara. Old techniques involve physical avoidance along with a cuts which can be made on the spot, pushing or pulling. As some people point out in other threads in a straight on free-for-all both parties would be injured.

Therefore its essential that the foot is placed first to generate this power. To cut with kahanshin (lower body power) So Kikentai-Ichi is present, but it not with the same timing.

Do all swords people have experience in Kendo? No. As Kendo is taught in schools to everyone as Kakutogi (Combat sports?) it would be true to say that most Japanese boys born after WW2 have experienced either Judo or Kendo, but not to a high degree. Perhaps its true to say that the ones that have excelled have done both and more.

Certainly there are few Kendo people that have experience with a real sword. I have seen Kendo/Iaido Nanadan attempt to cut a roll of tatami and bend the sword so badly that it could not be replaced in the saya.

The ZNKR did attempt to remedy things some time ago. We have a Kendo teachers club on Friday evenings. There are about 30 of us in all. Our Prefectural Iaibu Sensei brought along about 30 Iaito an got everyone doing Iai for a year (except me as I was already do it). Only two of them managed to continue through to Shodan. Everyone is far too busy with Kendo

I would not run down any of the facets. To do so I think would be a lack of understanding.

Hyaku

[Charlie]

Wise words from one of my favorite "cyber-senseis." Like I said, when I first ventured onto the "cyber dojo," I thought there were rights and wrongs of swordsmanship, but since have learned that there are "facets," as Hyaku put it. So, to each his own, and Ed chimed in with some good thoughts about cross-training. I agree, it is better to have a foundation before reaching out to another! To that end, setei gata has been veddy veddy good to me.

"Cut and dried." Howl!

[ben]

I have no problems with Shinkendo. As I've mentioned elsewhere in this forum one of my favourite pieces of wisdom is Rinzai zenji's "Personally I dislike nothing." However there are definite reasons why, after investigating it, I decided not to invest my time in studying it. FWIW here they are...

One of the things I love about kendo is that as a community it is a collective. There is (still) only one world governing body and no single founder/guru at the helm. There are however many knowledgeable, dedicated and inspirational people involved who make you want to be like them. There are some wankers too (although not many in my experience) but at least in kendo you're not stuck with the wankers.

Secondly it is admirable to want to sythesize aspects of various "koryu" (if Obata's background can be called koryu which it probably can't) into a new form, but I would have to question the need that it is fulfilling. The extant lineages of sogo bujutsu hail from times when they were necessary "trades". They were once used and were developed and refined according to strict utility. Shinkendo has no use value whatsoever. There is of course nothing wrong with having activities with no use value (the performing arts fall into this category), but the raison d'etre ('scuse my French) of Shinkendo seems to be "realism". I am used to the "make-believe" of kendo, but kendo does not purport to be training for combat. To what end the "realism" of Shinkendo?

Why establish a new tradition? What does it add? I would say nothing that can't be gained through any extant artform, be it budo or bujutsu. Which for me then makes Shinkendo start to smell just a little of self-aggrandisement. IOW Obata sensei has established his own style mainly in order to have his own style. Not that there's anything wrong with that, as Jerry says. It's the normal Western approach to accumulating some expertise: make it pay.

b

[Nishi]

Very well said Ben!!!

Its hard for anybody to understand what true kendo is. Even in this day and age, kenshi with unlimated years of experience may never trully know what it means to be beneith the blade and facing death. Even dojo that use shinken as training tools, the intent has changed.

I enjoy kendo because it develops the interior of the student. How would you react to a perfectly executed men cut done with shinken? I believe most of us would curl up in a ball and recieve it!And that goes for whatever stlye of budo is practised today. We have a very different lifestyle than the japanese did X amount of years ago, and we are not at risk of losing our lives on a daily basis. Kenshi from days gone, had accepted the fact that they where going to die one way or another, to themselves, they where already dead. How they reacted to that same men cut we can only imagine.

In those days, to face your opponent was to face death, and if any budo today can claim to teach this lesson today, i would advise you to skydive instead:), its as close as you may get, legally! It appears that shinkendo claim to offer "a more realistic approach", so i question its place also! The question rises then, can shinkendo teach what traditional koryu can not?

[kendomushi]

I agree with Hyaku and Charles, kendo is only one part of studying the sword. And many of the different thoughts of training and use have value in some way. Kendo, iai, batto are all parts of each other.

People often seem to forget that we are not living in a period of civil or feudal warfare. Kendo is an element of swordsmanship that while we still teach and train as a martial or military discipline, we practice and use it as a sport. While this would seem to eliminate the usefulness of kendo in the modern world, remember the concept of kendo:

The concept of Kendo is to discipline the human character through the application of the principles of the Katana.

And the purpose of practicing kendo:
To mold the mind and body,
To cultivate a vigorous spirit,
And through correct and rigid training,
To strive for improvement in the art of Kendo,
To hold in esteem human courtesy and honor,
To associate with others with sincerity,
And to forever pursue the cultivation of oneself.
This will make one be able:
To love his/her country and society,
To contribute to the development of culture
And to promote peace and prosperity among all peoples

To me at least, every statement listed there is of value. That is the real strength of kendo, it goes beyond simple cuts and thrusts. It is meant to help foster and develop us into right thinking, responsible, capable people of action.

[Charlie]

Well said, kendomushi!

[elfboy]

QUOTE]Originally posted by CEB
[B]

BTW, here's a great link to some videos of shinkendo.

http://www.tsuki-kage.com/library.html



I just watched some of the battodo(?) clips on that site and one thing stuck out in my mind: I've never seen anybody preform iai kata with one hand, and so seeing this guy whack apart a tameshirigiri pole repeatedly, holding the shinken with only one hand seems kind of odd, almost.... silly. But then again, maybe I'm missing something. The whole shinkendo renmei site seems kind of strange too - very unorthodox kendo. If anything, it resembles some type of kenjutsu koryu, with all the emphasis on forms rather than keiko - and there are other strange little details on the site, but hey, it looks a whole lot more legit than Rick Tew! :rambo:

[stevemcgee99]

I wonder where Hokushin Itto Ryu fits in with these definitions?

[AlexM]

I agree more or less with what Ben and Nishi have said. Kendo is usefull for personal development (whatever you want to get out of it). However, it is in all practical terms totally useless. That's the beauty of kendo among modern budo: there are no pretensions to actually serving any purpose in real life such participating in the Olympics (like judo), or self-defence (like aikido or karate). So in the end you have to concentrate on the "budo" aspect of kendo. Uselessness is bliss at times.

These people (shinkendo) that say that kendo isn't budo or that it's useless because you don't learn to cut properly have missed the point entirely in my opinion. Kendomushi said it best by simply quoting what the ZNKR says: Kendo goes beyond just cutting and thrusting at things.

If they feel like cutting things let them, but they're really missing something in my opinion. To paraphrase Marie-Antoinette (who never actually said it but is still quoted as saying it): "Let them eat bamboo".

[SirFingerLickin]

That guy was in the Ninja Turtles movies!

I'm sorry, but I just had to say that.

[jmarsten]

Some really great perspective by everyone.
When I was new at kendo after a couple years we had test cutting at the dojo one day. It was a tremendous eye opener for me. The sensei that had talked so much about cutting couldn't actually do it. One rokudan actually bounced the sword off of the makiwara. A couple bent the sword really badly. I was shocked by this after listening to these sword experts for the last 3 years. I went out a got myself a sword and started to learn how to cut. I was convinced that you needed to study the kata, tamashigiri and keiko if you were to understand anything about kendo. I even took up iaido (reluctantly) to add to my knowledge base.
But the bottom line is that kendo is a very personal application and is for your development as a person. It is a martial sport if you compete but it still is unlike other "sports" even when you compete.
I do look at it as the world population of those practicing Japanese sword arts is 99% kendo/kumdo and that speaks volumes to me. Even though I find some of these "new" arts entertaining I try to avoid bad mouthing them and in particular the koryu. But the fact is no one is out there fighting duels so it is all academic. I have no problem with them so I find it hard to understand why practicioners of these arts feel they have a problem with kendo. We are generally pretty oblivious to their existance. I do recommend that you try test cutting and learn how to do it.

[elfboy]

But the bottom line is that kendo is a very personal application and is for your development as a person. It is a martial sport if you compete but it still is unlike other "sports" even when you compete.


jmarsten, that really hits the true point of kendo, and the reason which i love it so much. the fact that it is a completely unseen synthesis of major elements of martial art and sport makes it completely unique. I guess as you said, martial sport is one way to describe it. just thought you said a whole lotta truth right there.

On a completely different note, shinkendo reminded me of another varitant of kendo that existed in the occupation years called shinai kyogi or something like that. i heard its a synthesis of european fencing and kendo but i don't know too much. anybody care to fill me in on some specifics?

[nox]

new here but i actually met a guy in shinkendo once
was cool enough
had about as much "place" in budo as any kendo person i thought

i figure its place is pretty much the same as kendo really
why does one go train in the older forms of kenjutsu??
its a different experience, you learn new and interesting things
i would learn shinkendo if i had the time

as for why shinkendo people feel the need to badmouth kendo **shrug**
can't say
i've found a lot of aikido people do the same thing. "no one knows how to really use a sword but us aikido people. O-Sensei says you can't understand the sword unless you understand how to use the empty handed techniques. That means we're better then any kendo person"
i chalk it up to "budo affiliation"
it's unavoidable i think
karate and judo people deride kendo as useless since "when would you be walking around with a sword"
people just tend to prop up their interests and claim they're better then all else. even in martial arts.

its like people and sports (not trying to draw up that "kendo a sport or budo" thing). soccer peopel think all other sports are stupid and never match the strategy and skill of soccer. basketball people feel the same way about bball, etc etc etc

it happens

[mingshi]

i've found a lot of aikido people do the same thing. "no one knows how to really use a sword but us aikido people. O-Sensei says you can't understand the sword unless you understand how to use the empty handed techniques. That means we're better then any kendo person"
Erhm, isn't it the other way round?
(at least that was what I was told) :ermm: :ermm: :ermm:

[JSchmidt]

Erhm, isn't it the other way round?
(at least that was what I was told) :ermm: :ermm: :ermm:

Nah, most MA's only introduce weapons later on. The concept kinda makes sense, although kendo seems to strive to make the sword apart of your body.

On a different note, I was suprised by the amount of force used in those clips. If anyone hit me that hard, I would tell them to stop or refuse to practice with them. Fairly slow, but very forceful.

Jakov

[R A Sosnowski]

...

Obata Sensei's background is in Aiki and Toyama Ryu (Sword techniques taught to Japanese Military) and other things. Not only can he use a sword but he can quickly take yours off you and have you on your back before you can blink. He specializes in cutting ability and not fencing. Obata Sensei had moved to America some time ago and formed an association based on his experience.

His old boss was Hayashi Kunishiro Sensei who is also the man that runs my Batto Association.

Hayashi Sensei runs Wakakoma Pro. A group of tatateshi they are very experienced martial artists that do all the fight sequences for films and TV Dramas as stand ins and also teach the lead roles a few basics to make them look good.

Anyone watching the latest Musashi drama will be looking at Hayashi Sensei's recent big project. This is well respected work. A lot of well known Iai teachers including some of Oe Sensei's students did this work and sadly one of the reasons that silly things like chiburui and noto are so flambouyant nowadays. If any thing batto is far more cut and dried (forgive the pun). You cut, move out of range, wipe the blade and put it away.

...

Hyaku

FYI: A subthread of Obata-s.'s Toyama Ryu books and the practice of Shinkendo appears in an SFI thread,
Toyama Ryu Books? (http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22789).

[Thomas_#1]

One thing I think you are all mising is that each person has there own strengths and weaknesses so it makes sense that some people think shen_kendo is better, i mean for instance, While one person is strong the
other is fast, it has to do with what you are and what your "attributes"
are. so the saying "to each his/her own" might need to be applied here
I myself am not too strong but I use speed and accuracy to my advantage
thats why im strongly considering shen-kendo I read about it and it dosnt
seem half-bad, but here in the 21 century dont count on anything great
thats why I think its foolish to argue about it, but honestly who do you think would win in a real fight, the person cutting simulated flesh or the guy with the stick... I mean no disrespect and if that offended you im sorry and im sure ill here the arrogant "YOUR WRONG". Dont get me wrong Kendo is popular and i enjoy it but thats what i think please if you have any comments id be glad to hear ^^

[litige]

but honestly who do you think would win in a real fight, the person cutting simulated flesh or the guy with the stick...

If we stay in your philosophy of the "real fight", I would say the guy with the stick. Because the guy with the stick knows how to behave in combat. You can do kata all your life, but if you don't practice the mindset of combat, you'll do squat in a battle. Picture it like this: you shoot out with a gun (a real), on a target, for months in backyard. You only do that. On an another streets, there's a guy, doing the same thing as you (he's got a bb gun), but from time to time, he goes to war. Now, one day, you and the other guy are sent to war (in opposing teams) with real guns. Be frank and aswer seriously,who do you think will win?

You know, that's something that is great about kendo, it doesn't have real-battle-war-call-it-what-you-want application, but you get to put in use what you are taught. against a real opponent. That is what is called, facing adversity, and dealing with it (And It DOES serve a purpose in life)

PS: Hey Max, or alex, or anyone interested. Remember seeing a rimouski kendo dojo?? well, I've found out it's not kendo, but shinkendo. Here's the link
http://www.libertel.org/site/kendo/index2.html

[Kichigai]

I must admit, the stance of this martial art vexes me.

I recently visited the Shinkendo website, and was quite displeased with what I saw. Toshiro's stance towards Kendo, going as far as to mock Kenshis and Iaido practitioners, is not only offensive, but ruptures the basic tenets of Bushido. Respect is to be maintained, and to mock the direct descendants of the art in which you emulate (yes, Emulate, Shinkendo is NOT a koryu) is in my opinion, totally stupid.

First, Aikido does not teach you half as much about the sword as you need for real combat. The first and second dans of this are restrictive to suburi alone. Suburi! The first day of Kendo you learn suburi! Don't let this detract from the vaule and worth of Aikido though, but to say you've developed a Koryu from techniques learned from a mixture of this and a pithy amount of watching a sensei that is superior to Kendo in all forms is fallible. I have no problem with people inventing their own styles, and, on the contrary, I find it refreshing. However, just the same, when people go totally off the handle believing that their style is infinitely better than hundreds of years of koryu, much less koryu's contemporary zen counterparts, they deserve to get struck in the side of the head with a bokken.

Also, students of Shinkendo who think that Kendo is pathetically weak and totally impractical to combat, remember that the ZNK kata is directly from Kenjutsu,not a deviation or style that is similar to it. If one wants to look for Kendo's combat applicability, they have but to study the kata, and they will see where the "bu" and "budo" comes from in relation to this art.

I also have read on their site that shinkendo practices the general study of the combat art of the blade, while still being a true ancient sword art directly from the Samurai. Tell me then, where is the shoto? I read on the site the story of the famous sensei mocking Iaido practitioners for striking from Seiza (a maneuver directly from iaijutsu, thank you very much) because of the daito's restriction within certain places. However, the shoto was still worn in ancient times, even when in places such as monestaries and temples, within which the daito's wearing was a mortal offense (cf: 47 ronin). ZNK has within it the proper arts for the shoto, which was crucial in the forming of the Daisho (two swords), and thus the symbol of power for all Samurai. Also, for the whole mark of bashing an iaido practitioner, perhaps the shinkendo sensei should question to himself why he'd run willy-nilly around everywhere with just a daito, and expect in antiquity to survive his weapon being taken from him, or sitting down and mocking a real practitioner of koryu and expecting to live to walk out and drop 20 mon as payment for his tea.

Also, as for Kendo's inability to cut, I have but one thing to say: ki-ken-tai-no-ichi. At least in NCKF, we learn to hit and cut, which works just fine in cutting practice, trust me.

I'll sum up the rant into something legible (much less comprehendible): no one martial art is better than the other one, and to say that Kendo is totally unapplicable and unworthy to call itself a true combat martial art is bullsh*t.

[jmarsten]

In the world of these sword arts there are hundreds(even if it were 2000) who do koryu, kenjutsu, battojutsu and only a few thousands that do iaido. Millions do kendo why do you suppose that is?
You want to be a ninja? Join your countries special forces and become a real ninja.
Bottom line for the sword arts is kendo is vastly preferred around the world over these others. Just do the math. As some one who has been doing kendo for a little while now I really don't care what any of the "real" martial arts say or think. None of them have real matches so it is all supposition as to what they can or can't accomplish. If you study the fitness reports on the samurai at the end of the Tokugawa period they were basically in a terrible state of training. Dr. Jeff Dann's thesis is a wonderful read on the subject.

[Stimpson J. Cat]

The concept of Kendo is to discipline the human character through the application of the principles of the Katana.
While I think Obata Sensei's goal of more realistic training is admirable (I have myself spoken on these boards that when we as kendoka apply the principles of the katana, we do so rather loosely. E.G. A cut that would remove a persons arm above the elbow or their leg doesn't count. Why? Well, because that's the way we do it.) I have to disagree with his apparent conclusion that unscripted competitive fencing is worthless. The shinai and the pieces of the bogu were after all invented by traditional swordsmen who were much closer to common use of the katana in lethal force situations than anyone alive today and were looking to add another aspect to their training. They apparently thought it useful to do "free form" fencing in addition to kata and all the other training they did, which fits with how modern athletes train for combative sports, boxers for example spend most of their training time on conditioning, drills, and working different types of punching bags, but they also spend time doing live sparring, same with every other sport or physical activity, part of the training is doing. The shinai and bogu allowed them to train by doing without having training partners killing and crippling each other all the time.

I wouldn't argue against the assertion that some of what they gained by the introduction of the shinai and bogu we have since lost in other areas, in particular if you go back to pre-WWII kendo, it included things like leg sweeps and grappling techniques we simply don't do any more, things which it sounds like shinkendo includes based on Hyaku Sensei's post. I admit I am one of those kendo people who has never cut with a shinken and probably couldn't. I've also never studied iaido, koryu or battojutsu, and with the possible exception of iaido probably never will and I recognize those as holes in my swordsmanship education, along with many other holes, like never having studied traditional European sword and shield or sword and dagger techniques. If there was a shinkendo dojo near me I think studying it alongside kendo would go a long ways towards my education, but there isn't, perhaps just as well, it sounds like I may not be particularly welcome as long as I continued to train in shinai kendo.