First time Iaido

[kendokamax]

For some odd reason tomorrow morning during kendo practice we will have an iaido class for the first hour. Swing bokken etc..

Will be my first time trying iaido....I wonder how it will be, will I like it or not? I think it will be interesting actually! :)

[Phorest]

Post an update.
I'm curious too!

[alexpollijr]

well

It's a tad more .. hmm.. 'truncated' than kendo. It's like kendo kata with loads and more loads of small details to worry about. The Seitei Iai 13 forms are ok, but the fun begins with koryu practice.

You know, for one hour it's ok. More than this and I start to get a little bored. Maybe it's just me, after all I'm all about kendo.

Enjoy,

[rottunpunk]

i do MJER iai and i can spend like 3 hours one one form i like without getting bored cuz theres sooo much to think about

but i do have a short attention span so the 3hrs is split up with random swionging my iaito around stuff

not that im biased (well i sort of am) but i tried a seitei form and got bored with it straight away, just cuz it wouldnt kill anybody

glad ur enjoying it tho

iai is well funky

:p

[kendokamax]

the Iaido class was interesting. I was so lost but I still liked it. We were using bokken of course but they made me try the iaito a little. That was like.....too tough!! I had no idea how to draw in and out the sword corretly. hmm and good thing it wasnt sharp because when I tried to put it back in , i messed up to see that my thumb was on the wrong side of the blade.. oups!

[roar]

Originally posted by rottunpunk
i do MJER iai and i can spend like 3 hours one one form i like without getting bored cuz theres sooo much to think about

but i do have a short attention span so the 3hrs is split up with random swionging my iaito around stuff

not that im biased (well i sort of am) but i tried a seitei form and got bored with it straight away, just cuz it wouldnt kill anybody

glad ur enjoying it tho

iai is well funky

:p

Hopefully, your iaido is better than your spelling:D
(U arr sou lucky you have a dojo where yu actually can kill people):alien:

[rottunpunk]

hehe
not really

:p

[rottunpunk]

as for the being able to kill peeps-they are invisible, which is kinda good cuz im a weak ickle girly so im not that gud at cutting, esp. cuz im not the size of tim so i dont hav the same hara power-hehe

:p

[chidokan]

"Tim" will be at your dojo this coming weekend and will be 'discussing' your attention span during the session. Naturally YOU will be doing ALL the demonstrations on how NOT to do iaido after the comment on my hara.
Size is not everything, skill is, and after the six hours I'll be putting you through, hopefully your skill will improve.....:D

p.s. I will be bringing earplugs this time so I cant hear you moan and talk all the time... (hope you will stay South for the easter break as well, don't want you putting off the new SENSIBLE students)

Tim ( that's SENSEI to you madam) Hamilton

[rottunpunk]

neil doesnt like the idea of brits being called sensei esp. out of the dojo-do you not read obi? hehe

okies i'll be there this sunday then-i wasn't gonna bother otherwise

if u get lost u can just ring me-basically aim for one of the big church spires and its the one thats not the library

sensible students? what are they?

pre-emptive excuse-my shoulder is sooooo bad at the mo-grr arg its really getting on my wick

:p

[chidokan]

There will be quite a long discussion on the use of the word sensei in the club magazine as you will find out! Perhaps a good one for a thread on here would be "when do you become a sensei?"!!!:D
Bad shoulder? read my quote....the second bit especially..
Or alternatively I will quote Iwata sensei..."If you are injured on the field of battle what are you going to do? Have a rest and die, or keep fighting?"

Tim Hamilton

[rottunpunk]

erm id prefer to have a rest and die than be crippled for a long slow painful life-hehe :D

thanks for sunday btw
everyone seemed to enjoy your training aids
somehow nick managed to make them boring in the session on monday tho

:P

[chidokan]

Originally posted by rottunpunk
erm id prefer to have a rest and die than be crippled for a long slow painful life-hehe

it can be arranged for your next home visit.....:D especially if you stole my cadbury's cream egg on Sunday.:angry: I think a demonstration of kaishaku will come in handy...

Tim Hamilton

[rottunpunk]

i swear i didnt steal it

have you checked ur sword case
i found mine in my bag

like id deprive you of chocolate-i do know where to draw the line and value my life just a little

:p

[chidokan]

you are officially hired as a private investigator.. leave no stone unturned until my lost treasure is returned to me...
Missed a good seminar up in Scotland, you'd have been moaning about being really tired out and your head swimming...

Tim Hamilton

[roar]

how is iaido-practise, kendokamax? Still hangin in?

[kendokamax]

no no

we just had one "Demo Practice" from our sensei, to show us what is Iaido. But maybe in the future there will be an Iaido class teached by some other teacher somewhere...this is all mysterious.

Personaly I think I will do some Iaido when I am in Budo University, but still not sure, depends on schedule etc..

[Richie224]

Do they teach Iaido at the Budo Uni or is will that be something to do in your spare time?

[kendokamax]

I guess someone teaches it? it's like an other club of the university.

[Richie224]

Ah I see, I thought Iaido might have been apart of the course.

[kendokamax]

ah ya it is apart of the main course which is kendo and japanese

[rottunpunk]

budo university?

is that where you can do degrees in martial arts

or is it just a japanese type school

sorry ive just never come across it before-sounds funky tho'

:p

[kendokamax]

just a normal sport university I think

degree in a particular martial art? sounds pretty useless to me.

[Richie224]

Depends really to be a BA or BSc or equiv. it would have to be validated by an educational authority. Just think of all the subjects related with the study of Budo ...... Zen and other philosphies, history, sport science.....etc etc. In fact samurai had to have been seen to be educated and talent in other fields for instance look at the talent of Musashi and Ryoma. So perhaps the combination can be justified ....improve one's Heijou shin so to speak.

[rottunpunk]

coolies

thanx for clearing that up

im at preston ex poly-a tad bit different i feel

:p

[Richie224]

The University of Central Lancashire sounds more impressive ...... It's good to see you found the right side of the Pennines too;)

[chidokan]

personally I'd prefer her in Queensland uni, Australia.....that would be the right side of the Pennines for me....:D
Not sure how well a degree in MA would go down for a normal job though, wouldnt cut it with me if you applied for an engineering job for instance. might be o.k. for Phys Ed though.

Tim Hamilton

[ben]

I've just started iai and was hoping to find this thread informative... getting back on topic for just a mo, I'm glad to find the "b" word mentioned (as in "boring") because I can't find a huge amount to keep me interested. Is this normal for a beginner? At least I'm not doing seitei *ducks for cover*, but even though I'm doing a well interesting koryu style (lots of other weapons too), I find iai practice really boring. No doubt an indication of my shallow mind. It's the imaginary nature of it that I find difficult. And the fact that there is so much to learn (there's 80-something kata in this ryu). Can anyone tell me where I can find ma'ai (as in engagement) in iai?

b

[chidokan]

its something you will have to develop over time. If you need to get this sorted to make your own practise more interesting, use bokken with a partner to work out where you should be looking to aim for each cut. Make sure you do it slowly and CAREFULLY, I dont want to be blamed for you braining someone!!!
I must admit its one of the harder parts to pick up though...

Tim Hamilton

[roar]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ben
[B]I've just started iai and was hoping to find this thread informative... getting back on topic for just a mo, I'm glad to find the "b" word mentioned (as in "boring") because I can't find a huge amount to keep me interested.

The clue is to have a personal life that is even more boring. Iaido-practise is the definitive highlight in my own personal schedule.:)
Sore kneecaps, dirty floors and slaughtering imaginary enemies suits me just fine.

I think that most beginners have a somewhat strange picture of swordsmanship, and I am happy that iaido and kendo in a small degree have been adjusted and "flashified" to fit into this picture.

Maybe kendo is better for you.

[munenmuso]

How about iaido with shiai? I'm sure those boring days will be over as you pump your heart out everytime you engage in an iaido shiai.

[chidokan]

good point...Its got me thinking about doing an embu with ALL the people I know watching, including my teachers. No way is that ever going to be boring...try it Ben, I'm sure it will be enlightening for you.

Tim Hamilton

[roar]

Can anyone tell me where I can find ma'ai (as in engagement) in iai?

I see from your profile that you are a yondan in kendo. What kind of "engagement" did you expect in iaido? Shinken shobu?
Proper understanding of maai is crucial to iai, as the moment of decision.
You dont need a panting and screaming opponent to learn that. (I do not dis kendo, I have practised kendo for 12 years, and have enjoy it all the time)
I guess its right that the imaginary nature makes iaido boring for most people, and you dont have to be shallowminded to think that.
About the number of kata: A koryu-sensei in Kanegawa said that all there was to know about swordsmanship was in their first kata, the rest was just to entertain the students, and keep them form getting bored. Hmm.
A guy I know started with iai in 1970, did shohatto fron MSR for two years straight, 4 days a week, two hours each day. From 40 beginners, only two remained. They became quite good, though, and learned the remaining forms rather quick.


:)

[ben]

Thanks for your replies everyone. I'm trying to learn something that's new to me and it's not easy. However maybe I can put my query another way: what is the objective of iai kata and how do you know when you've succeeded?

b

[roar]

At my own current level, sucess versus failure is decided by how well I cut, if I have good flow in the katas, maintainment of zanshin, and good seme, keeping up the "martial pressure"until the opponents "have departed to the higher dojo". Avoiding any suki during kata. Relaxing/breathing correctly, moving from the center not the extremities, correct looking(metsuke). Accelrating the cuts with jo-ha-kyu, slow, faster, fastest. etc etc
I find it hard to break iaido down to one major technical or "esoterical" point, other people can do that much better. As one iaidoka heard from a(perhaps unpedagogical) iai-teacher: "Iaido is saya-banare.Your saya banare suck." (saya banare: moment the swordtip leave the opening of the saya.)

Even though the opponent is only imaginary, I do not succeed as often as I would like :(

[chidokan]

My teacher, Iwata sensei, told me that he was really pleased the first time he did a waza the way he actually wanted to. A member of the crowd told him that it was obvious what was going on and he had learnt a lot watching.
That was two years ago, just after his 88th birthday......I think it may take the rest of us some time to get it right....

Tim Hamilton

[ben]

I suppose I'm having trouble after kendo, recognising the factors that make a 'successful' execution of an iaido kata. Obviously, in kendo, if you get something wrong you'll get cut. I've lost count of the times where I've *felt* strong, centred, etc and still my opponent has stepped in and cut me. In iai I keenly feel that it is possible to exist in this blisslfully unaware prior state and never know whether the cut would have been effective.

I've seen many people demonstrate iai in Australia and Japan (seitei, MSR, MJER) but mostly they seem to be striving to perfect outward form. Their movements are usually terribly self-conscious, postures are exaggerated, feeling is overly serious. And this is yudansha.

Roar: I agree with your sensei's comment: even at my lowly stage I know saya banare is the thing I'm gonna have the most trouble with.

Tim: Iwata sensei sounds like an excellent role model. However from my POV his comment sounds a little disingenuous (in that typically Japanese way) - i.e. he must have had some goal in mind or some successes along the way to get to where he is. What I want to know is, what were they?

b

[roar]

Their movements are usually terribly self-conscious, postures are exaggerated, feeling is overly serious.

I have also seen a lot posing, and notos that keeps going into the next millennium, and as my own level has developed somewhat, I feel that I better can recognize shit from chocolate, and choose the best technical rolemodels in iaido. Dont be discouraged by shallow performance.

[Chusan]

Originally posted by ben
what is the objective of iai kata and how do you know when you've succeeded?

b
I do not really know for sure. Anyway, I`ve been practising Iaido for twentythree years now, and the one thing I know is: I just got used to it. I`m not good, do not visit exams anymore, don`t participate in iaido-shiais (one european championship way back in 1993 was enough), so what`s the use of it?
I guess- there is none. And yet it makes sense, these strange and useless routines, but there`s no chance of rationalizing about it.
One thing is certain: Iaido can lead to a better understanding of kendo.
Just my POV, of course...

[chidokan]

I partly understood his comment, think of it like this. If during a kendo bout, you get that kote in with everything there, like he's on the wrong foot, kikentaichi is spot on, etc etc. you can be quite pleased with yourself. Now think of that happening ALL the time during the match. Iaido waza is the same. There are a lot of things you are trying to do perfectly, and at my level I am happy to get a portion right. In fact if I can get a couple of good cuts using my hara and spirit right in one nights practise I am over the moon!!Can you imagine being able to say I did everything right during my match/ embu???!!! Maybe in forty years or so...I live in hope....

Tim Hamilton