Bringing mainstream style to Kendo

[bronxjragon]

Before people flame on me for being a "newbie," I want to say that I have a somewhat respectable position in Kendo. I'm a Shodan, 17 years old, and have won some medals. Anyway, onto the post.

Although some people don't mind Kendo being a mainstream sport, I do. But I can't complain that its not a mainstream sport like lets say (on the martial arts level) Karate or Boxing. Why? Because when people watch Kendo I can be very boring.

When I'm fighting in a match it always is fun, but when I watch it on tape it usually ends up boring. Thats why I've been experimenting with Kendo for a while now.

When I fight I try to do "crazy" and unsuspecting things. The crowd actually enjoys it and I end up winning the matches (on some occasions:))
In fact, in my last tournament (Shidogakuin, February 2003) I did this spinning manuever to get out of being stuck with my opponent. The people laughed and clapped.

I don't know if you guys agree, but we gotta bring some extra spice to the sport.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Plonk.

[stinkyKote]

I've been thinking along the same lines myself for some time now...hey, maybe we can get some neon lights and some liquid smoke going- and how about some race queens with big ass umbrellas? Hell, while we're at it, why don't we make it like the WWF? We can each have our own heavy metal or hip hop/rap theme songs to play as we bow in, and when someone gets ippon they can set fireworks off in the rafters! ... and then, maybe when someone has just hit a point and is doing their zanshin, one of the other guys mates should run in from the audience and hit him in the back of the head with a steel chair and ruin the point! YAH! Do you think that would be crazy and unexpected enough? I dunno...maybe I should take it up a notch ... :alien:

[Phorest]

I'm with you 100% on that, except I think light-up shinai and some glow in the dark bogu would cap it off nicely.

Also I think we should add in ropes and turnstyles so that you can do flying leg-drops onto your opponent.

[nodachi]

Adding some extra spice to the sport sounds nice, except the some of the things that draw me to Kendo are the traditional, ritual, etiquette kinda things that have been done for years and years. Adding to the growth and popularity of Kendo is always a plus, but not at the expense of the traditions.

I still prefer the boring, slow Kendo style of looking for that perfect one hit point. I can't do it, want to learn how, and think being able to do that is more important than flashy moves.

[bronxjragon]

Well first off, most of those posts weren't funny. Just because you have 200+ posts don't mean your Kendo experts. In fact, you probably are little punks who have nothing better to do.

Anyway to those who actually posted something legit, I actually do enjoy the "one shot" matches. It requires lots of skill and all but it has to be done perfectly to make it look good. No one wants to see a bunch of guys smacking each other with "sticks"(yeah, i know its really a shinai doofs). They wanna' see skill with style.

[Phorest]

Actually...

One of the main reasons I like Kendo is that it is one of the few martial arts practiced today that does not worry about HOW COOL YOU LOOK doing the moves, but instead the practicality of them. Kendo is more about how well a move works vs. how amazing it looks to the audience.

In a combat situation (like Kendo), looking spiffy should be your last priority.

I mean really...who cares what the audience thinks? I personally don't give a crap if anyone "wants to see" a bunch of guys "smacking each other with sticks". It sounds to me like you'd do better in something like Wushu or modern Tae Kwon Do.

[Paburo]

just when i thought kendo kashin would die without a succesor...

[ben]

Bronxjragon, maybe you should try Sport Chanbara?

[bronxjragon]

Sport Chanbara?
What the shizzle is that?

[nodachi]

Bronx,

Relax with calling people punks. It's true that number of posts doesn't relate to how much Kendo knowledge someone truly has, but take some time to get used to the online personalities of everyone here. For the most part, everyone here is nice, knowledgeable, and friendly. Everyone has their moments, but learn to just laugh at rants like those above. It's just people's quirky personalities and people being goofy. They may disagree with you and that is their goofy way of expressing themselves.

If I took people too seriously, I would have been burnt a long time ago. Have fun with it.

[bronxjragon]

So your saying.....I should kill?!

[TheBraveFencer]

Hey Bronx,

I kinda know how you feel about making kendo exciting to others. While not going so far as to have "kendo raves" or rap sponsors, I agree with putting a fun, interesting spin on things. I myself like experimenting with different kiai...it throws my opponents off sometimes. I think during keiko is the best time to experiment with things like that. Just grab a buddy and start coming up with new techniques. I have a couple I like to use on the new kenshi, but most of the time in a real shiai the coolest thing to do is to have good form. As a kyu, it's alright to try to act cool and show off crazy techniques, but as a yudansha the "crazy techniques" don't work as often. I'm not saying I'm a master or anything...I just became a shodan so I'm new to the whole yudansha scene too...but those are my "two cents"...I never thought I'd use that phrase haha...

Yuhki

[bronxjragon]

Speaking of "cents," the Fifty Cent album is pretty hot.
Oh yeah TheBraveFencer, thats pretty much my take on Kendo....however....rap sponsors sound pretty damn cool.

[aru-ma]

Here's the link if you want to know what it is
http://www.internationalsportschanbara.net/index2.html (Sports Chanbara)
One thing that I dont get is, why woud you care about how cool, spiffy or funky your kendo is to the audiance(sp)? I personally care how my kendo looks like from the shinpans point of view in a shiai/match (ooh looks like a good cut, flag up). though maybe you definition of a good kendo differs slightly.
Generally you dont watch kendo video's for entertainment (though sometimes people do) Martial arts shiai video's generally have very little entertainment value and have a certain degree of educational value, a bit like a documentary. I find the meiji mura video really boring but I fnd points that I can use in my own kendo.
What I think is better is to have poeple know and be interested in kendo for what it is rather than molding it into something else just to follow the popular stream.

kendo kashin? agh damn you Paburo I'm gonna kill you for making me remember that!

[KhawMengLee]

No one wants to see a bunch of guys smacking each other with "sticks"(yeah, i know its really a shinai doofs). They wanna' see skill with style.

No offence but what are you doing kendo for? To develop your own growth or to entertain people?

Skill with style? I think you haven't seen enough kendo. I'm no expert but training in Australia, Malaysia and Singapore I have seen some amazing kendoka. The style and skill is in how they execute waza....eg. a well executed suriage dou always real good.

[kendokamax]

haha this is a pretty cool thread!

I enjoy doing crazy kendo in jigeiko with my dojo friends, but hmm in shiai I'm not sure. I'm pretty serious during shiai matches.

It's true that kendo looks boring, but eh that's life. It's so much fun to play! That,s always what I say when I want to show a kendo tape to friends....: "sorry but i think you will find it quite boring" sometimes they like and that always make me happy hehe

One thing thought, when I do that crazy whatever kendo it's not for the sake of people looking at me..it's only because it's fun to try different fun techniques! Give an example that our sensei often show us : Sureage gyaku do and do again from the other side! It's far from being ippon but it's just so himulating for the other person! It's all good :D

[Ares2907]

You are either a very poor troll, or generally have an overly high opinion of yourself. In any case, welcome to my killfile.
PLONK.

[AlexM]

Congratulations!
You've managed to piss off Ares in under 6 hours! (And quite a few others)
That's a new record! (hands over bouquet of flowers)

Don't take it too hard. No one here gets along. We'd all kill each other if we had the chance. For instance, I've sent Neil several letter bombs this month alone.

As for wrestling-style promotions to bring kendo into the mainstream . . . . . . . . Whoever proposed this (I'm looking at you Stinky) should be dragged out into the street and beaten around the head with lead pipes. . . and then have a grand piano dropped on them from the CN tower (gotta be a use for that eyesore). Or maybe have the piano dropped on them first..... I can never decide.

BTW, do we really want a pro-wrestings clientele for kendo. Have you SEEN the mainstream lately. These are the people who gave us reality television, fast-food, WWE, cheese made with pasteurized milk, SUVs clogging our roads (and skies), talk-radio, etc.

[stinkyKote]

[flameOn]...ah to be 17 again eh boys? I wish I was a 17 year old shodan with some plastic trophies.. then I'd be the 'shizzle'. -better start working on my 'drop-kick-uchi' ...Pass the steel chair please, thanks! [/flameOff]

[stinkyKote]

oh psst.. alex, that wrestling post was sarcasm- guess they don't have much of that out east-

[AlexM]

We live in the same time-zone you idiot.

You should still have a grand piano dropped on you..... I'm curious, I want to see the sound it makes.

[KhawMengLee]

IT"S WKF TIME!!!!!

[bronxjragon]

Originally posted by AlexM
Congratulations!

As for wrestling-style promotions to bring kendo into the mainstream . . . . . . . . Whoever proposed this (I'm looking at you Stinky) should be dragged out into the street and beaten around the head with lead pipes. . . and then have a grand piano dropped on them from the CN tower (gotta be a use for that eyesore). Or maybe have the piano dropped on them first..... I can never decide.


Actually, I started this thread. I'm the man!:beard: :bandit:

[stinkyKote]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AlexM
We live in the same time-zone you idiot.


ah, I see what the problem is now, it's not that you don't understand sarcasm, it's that you don't understand english!

I said 'out east' smart guy- which part of your brain equates that with a 'time zone'?

[bronxjragon]

only 15 posts and I'm the center of hate...don't worry though, I'm usually bored with forums in about a month...just learn to put up with me!

[AlexM]

So let me get this straight, Toronto is now a part of Western Canada? Now I get it! That explain a few things.

I've got news for you, Ontario to the Atlantic is considered "the East". I was assuming you'd be aware of the meaning of such expressions. My mistake. I thought you were smart enough to comprehend. I'll never make the same error again.

You are just too smart for me.

:D

[bronxjragon]

Yes children, fight! My work here is done....actually I'm only 17 so I shouldn't call you children.

[stinkyKote]

wow ...death by semantics, and dropping pianos ... I'd love to continue this little battle of wits with you alex, but I make it a rule never to fight an unarmed man-

if you wanna continue this discussion, go ahead and pm me, otherwise, go get yourself a piano and come down to toronto- you know where to find me-

[/flameoff]

[munenmuso]

Originally posted by bronxjragon
only 15 posts and I'm the center of hate...don't worry though, I'm usually bored with forums in about a month...just learn to put up with me!

Hey dude, nobody hates you in this forum, their views are just different and dissenting from your own. Some of the members here are even in fact members of The Care Bare Society or the Winnie the Pooh Friendship Club. Their also a happy lot with trigger happy shinai.

BTW, welcome to KW

[stinkyKote]

indeed- I don't hate you bronxjragn, although I confess I'm a little hurt you didn't find the wrestling post amusing, I thought it was at least a little funny-

AlexM on the other hand, I think I hate a bit, but he's from Montreal, and I'm from Toronto, federal law requires us to hate eachother- :D

[bronxjragon]

Yeah, you Canadians are kinda weird....its called soda, not pop!
Anyway just to clarify things, in shiai I do fight straight and try for the "one shot" points, but I do like to goof around sometimes just for the hell of entertaining not only the crowd, but myself. At the end of the day it makes me feel good:)

[alexpollijr]

Plonk.

[Kingu]

Originally posted by bronxjragon
I want to say that I have a somewhat respectable position in Kendo. I'm a Shodan, 17 years old, and have won some medals.


I don't want to sound rude but I think you have no idea of what martial arts are about...

[Tato]

Neither do I, and I'm twice older, half experienced, and zero rewarded. But here I am and here I will stay (with a little help from my friends, of course).

Rei

[bronxjragon]

Originally posted by Kingu



I don't want to sound rude but I think you have no idea of what martial arts are about...

Bonjour?

[bronxjragon]

Oh yeah Kingu, I think we can all agree that martial arts are about hurting people and trying to look cool while doing it:)

[sminki]

bronx,

just out of curiosity, where in NY do you train?

[Kingu]

Originally posted by bronxjragon
Oh yeah Kingu, I think we can all agree that martial arts are about hurting people and trying to look cool while doing it:)

??????

[Kingu]

Originally posted by Tato
Neither do I, and I'm twice older, half experienced, and zero rewarded. But here I am and here I will stay (with a little help from my friends, of course).

Rei

That's exactly what I meant, martial arts are not about victories in tournaments or defeating others...
I didn't post to tell Bronxjragon he was not experienced enough to tell his opinion: he's a better kenshi than me!! :)

[Phorest]

Oh yeah Kingu, I think we can all agree that martial arts are about hurting people and trying to look cool while doing it

Oh, can we now? So the spiritual side of martial arts doesn't count for anything eh?

I'm sure that ages ago when Martial Arts were being pioneered someone sat down and said "Wow, lets figure out a way to fight that not only does damage but looks cool at the same time. The cooler we look to bystanders watching the fight, the better off we are."

I mean come on...seriously. I could keep going with this for 3 pages but I just don't feel like it.

[aru-ma]

Originally posted by bronxjragon
I think we can all agree that martial arts are about hurting people and trying to look cool while doing it:)

I just hope you're being sarcastic about this:angry: If you're not you're gonna have to call a fire truck 'cuz you're gonna burn.

Oh and just because you're a shodan and won some tournaments several times dont mean jack shit if thats your attitude to kendo or any martial arts for that matter. For once I wish Confound was here to see this thread

[bronxjragon]

Bwahaha! You guys take all this "warrior" stuff to heart!

[bronxjragon]

And yes I was being sarcastic about beating people up and looking cool. But I'll keep that standpoint just to make you "warriors" aggravated. Oh yeah, I train with Hudson River Kendo Club

[nodachi]

One reason for taking all this "warrior" stuff so seriously on this forum is that there are a complete lack of Kendo forums out there so this is a great and rare chance to discuss serious Kendo issues with other Kendoka since Kendo is not a mainstream sport and these opportunities to discuss these issues are rare outside of one's dojo (depending on where you live of course).

If it is going to degrade Kendo, then I think it is better that Kendo is not a mainstream sport then. If it will improve it then great, but there is that big risk of damaging it by bringing it into the mainstream.

When I lived in the States, all I could see were Karate dojos as far as the eye could see. Some were serious, some were McDojos, and others taught martial arts, but a bastardized mix of all different styles that it was like a mut. You couldn't really tell what it was. Not saying it was ineffective, but it wasn't quite as strong as a dojo that sticks to traditions and good solid techniques without blending in other crazy things.

I would rather Kendo not enter the mainstream if this bastardization of mixing styles is going to enter into things and ruin it like it has for Karate in the States for example.

Disclaimer: If you train in a dojo in the States and it is a good dojo, my apologies, I know many of you train seriously, but my experiences have shown me a lot of hokey dojos there that in my opinion are degrading Karate.

[TheBraveFencer]

Hey Nodachi,

I completely agree with you. One of the reasons I started kendo was because it was so different. I mean, karate and judo is great as long as they're not "McDojos" (I like that...quite funny :D ). But I thought kendo was cooler (yeah I know it sounds kiddy but I'm sticking with it) because not many people knew about it. At first kendo was just a "cool thing" to me, but it's a lot more now. I think it's ok to see kendo as something cool and want to make it cool, but I also think you need to know that coolness isn't the goal of kendo...just an added bonus.

[nodachi]

"McDojos" is not my creation. I learned it from this forum.

One thousand apologies for not referencing the original creator of the phrase. Whoever your are, you are awesome!

[taiwnezboi]

I don't think everyone should be so hard on bronx.. he's the same age as me and most people our age or younger just practice Kendo/Kumdo without really thinking about the all the "warrior stuff".. doesn't mean we're all horrible at Kendo/Kumdo and missing the whole point of it.. I mean, he got his shodan.. must mean he's doing something right..

[sminki]

What would be the exact definition of a McDojo?

[bronxjragon]

taiwnezboi, thanks, but no need to back me up. Its just a forum...it can't really hurt anybody. I live in the Bronx for crying out loud! As long as there isn't a thug by the corner of this forum, I'm cool.

Oh yeah, nodachi, I agree with you to some point about "Mcdojo's" and "bastardization." I think Tae Kwon Do has been through much bull shit lately, but not Kendo. I do Kendo in my high school (The only All American High School to do Kendo: whoopa!) and my sensei is awesome. I also looked at other dojos and everyone was great too. Even though some of them had 4th dan senseis, the technique and forms were in the right state of mind. None of this BAMBAMBAM nonsense....occasionally they mix it up a bit but its all for fun.

So just because people mix it up a bit doesn't mean their a "McDojo" or whatever its called.

[stinkyKote]

Originally posted by sminki
What would be the exact definition of a McDojo?

how about this:

McDojo:

1. a martial arts school whose primary purpose is expansion and/or financial gain.

2. a martial arts school bearing resemblance to 'McDonalds' in it's business ethic.

[sminki]

highschool in new york with a kendo team??? is that possible? is it in manhattan? do you guys have a full time instructor?

[bronxjragon]

sminki, the Kendo Team is part of an after school activity in my high school. You can check out the website at www.allhallows.org

The site doesn't say much about Kendo and its under the "clubs and activities" section rather than sports. You can also see a congratulations to Alfonso (me) for getting my shodan in November....oh yeah, our Instructor also teaches Hudson River Kendo Club and West Point Academy(army)

[Tato]

¡Cielos Alfonso, parece un instituto del barrio de La Latina en Madrid, de la cantidad de nombres y apellidos castellanos que hay!

Means that this high school looks like one in Madrid, so many Spanish names!

:D

Sorry, I had to do the remark!

Rei

[supernils]

p
l
o
n
k

[bronxjragon]

Yeah Tato, I live in Bronx, NY so there are tons of Spanish, Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, Asians, ....well, every ethnicity!

And the "plonk" remarks on this forum are VERY gay whoever is using it.

[KhawMengLee]

what the hell does this "plonk" thingy mean. Sorry for the ignorance but to stay ignorant sorry.

[Tato]

A men? An experssion that means that Supernils thinks that my previous post wasn't very brigth? A message from beyond? All the three at a time.

I belive that he didn't liked my comment, don't know why, I tried to provide a translation. May be he wanted the post in French.

:rolleyes:

Rei

PD: Ok, I'm far from the subject, but I can't resist to comment. Sorry

[inner_cent]

Originally posted by bronxjragon
only 15 posts and I'm the center of hate...don't worry though, I'm usually bored with forums in about a month...just learn to put up with me!

Something you might want to learn in Kendo....

1. Sho-dan means jack shit....... I know a 5th Kyu can beat the hell out of a Ni-dan.....
2. Never get so "macho" around here... you bound to get "put down" like a stray dog.....
3. No body hate anybody, but people just don't accept Cocky young fellow think he can take over the world with "Sho-dan". Even a 4th dan are humble in this forum.
4. Learn to be humble, and you will be surprise wat you can get out of this Forum........


PS - Learn to be see what you want to get/learn out of Kendo, not how many medals or how many head you can crack.

[Ares2907]

fwiw, 'plonk' tends to mean that the previous poster (or plonkee) has been added to the 'plonker's' killfile.

[KATSUJIN]

hahahah....it seems that there r more people out there quite like me..hahaha....now i am not so lonely......

[dorkusxmaximus]

it's a nice idea.

[bronxjragon]

Well, this post has certainly gone wrong.

[Raígma]

Err... Huh?

[qpuppy]

One word that can explain his way of thinking......

"KID"

[Kuri]

Originally posted by qpuppy
One word that can explain his way of thinking......
"KID"

What have goats got to do with it????
In sacrafices in the pipelines.... ;)

[samurai999]

I've been in Kendo for 3 years and I'm a shodan, but that doesn't mean too much. I still have a lot to learn. Since I was only playing pickup bball in college, it was okay to go with the mainstream and do the trick moves and talk the trash.

Kendo was and is always going to be a more "civilized" activity. After a hard fought victory, shouting out "yeah biootttccchhhh. Who da man.. Who da man.." while pumping your fist in the air is going to be frowned upon by other sempai and sensei because it shows blatant disrespect to your opponent and your sensei. But people aren't totally prohibited. People do their own congratulatory rituals like body bumps, high 5s, etc. Again, it ok to do somethings, but other things are way out of line.

Last but not least, bronxjragon, if you do some sort of flashy move without getting the "it's cool, go ahead" from your sempai or sensei, it usually translates into being motodachi for tsuki practice where I go.. :D

Tim

[kendomushi]

Shodan only indicates the bearer is proficient with the bare bones most basic techniques and skills in question here in Japan. It is not the level at which someone decides to rework kendo into their own new path.
In any event, kendo is what it is, development of self through practicing the ways of the sword. Some will be flashier than the majority of us. As long as their focus is on bettering themselves, and as long as they stay within the rules for the sport aspect, let them do as they please. The overly flashy will quickly grow tired of the regimen and discipline the rest of us apply to kendo and eventually fall away. Real kendo is not for them. But hopefully it will at least help them find a different path that is right for them.
Flash usually seems to fail from what I've seen when matched against a dull kendoka of superior skill (no matter the kyu or dan carried).

[bronxjragon]

This post has become boring. I'm gonna' start another offensive one.....well, offensive to you "warriors" anyway.

[Paburo]

too bad almost noone agreed with your chanbara pokemon kendo...

better luck next time!

[Marine_Boy]

Damm it! Have just missed a big fight!:D :dead: :devious: :hurt: :ko: :ninja: :rambo:

No really, after having read some abusive writing and offencive behaviour from misterkurukuru on the "A better person?" tread, I think that we should have a "sin-bin" on this forum where people get nominated to go in. This sin-bin would ban those members from posting anything for a period of time. The criteria for being sent there would be disrespect to the rules of the forum, and inappropriate behaviour, just like bronxjargons' in this thread. Although this is really the job of the moderators, they can't read every thread or entry.

Just my thoughts.

Stan

[Ares2907]

That's what your killfile is for. You can put trolls in there permanently if you like, or not. If enough people killfile a troll, it tends to die from lack of sustenance or seeks nourishment elsewhere.

[munenmuso]

Let's make this forum for adults only so that those over-eager kids will have second thoughts in sending kiddie stuff or better yet let's post boring threads so as not to excite those overcharged testosterone during their puberty stage.

BTW, who are the adults?

[Tako-kun]

I look like an adult...

[kendomushi]

I absolutely refuse to be an adult unless I can be childish about it. :p

[nodachi]

I think I fit the age group for adult, but that word feels like an oversized pair of pants, it doesn't seem to fit when I use that word to describe myself.

[aru-ma]

I'm at my evolving stage, sort of like being a kid in an adult body, HELP I'm getting old!!:D :D

[Goyaman]

Well, after reading posts on this forum for a while I suppose now's as good a time as any to jump in...
I confess that after 41 years I probably qualify as an adult though I'm in no hurry to grow up; maybe that's one of the reasons I'm a kendoka.

[Ares2907]

Far be it for me to assume or imply any sort of elitism on the board, but admission of one's lurker status is definately a positive sign. Welcome.

spose I'd better say something OT.
I don't think being adult has a great deal to do with not being child-like (as opposed to childish).
I also think that being adult and being stupid are, unfortunately not mutually exclusive.

[munenmuso]

I'm on the third stage of my Peter Pan-syndrome.:D

Your right Ares. Also, if a child commits stupidity we don't call it ignorance...the child is being innocent. But if an adult commits ignorance, he is simply stupid.:D

[mingshi]

"After nine years, do you know what I realize?"

"Ignorance is bliss."

[Goyaman]

G'day Ares and thanks for the welcome. Yup-you'll find no elitism here...just cold beer after practice. See you on the boards again soon...

[crabbi]

I know that this thread has been long dead (nearly 2 years!!!) but I found it hugely amusing... what an interesting bunch of people! I only wish that I had been around on KendoWorld earlier...

crabbi