Who should We condemn behind The London Bombing?

[ISSAC RU]

Is it the Terrorists?
Who is the true barbarian behind all of these horrible tragdies?
Who is the one plant this terrorism seed?
Who is the one invade other country thru a violent war?
How can those who is brutally killing the innocent lives of the
others condemn this tragdy?
Who has the right to give the meaning of '' Terrorism'' when they
are acting in such way?
The deaths of the innocent men and women in this tradgy should
be remembered, but this doesn't mean their lives are more important
than the others across the world.
If we must condemn , We must Condemn the true masterminded
terrorist behind all of these killings.

[Anjin-san]

Please. Stop. Now.

[ISSAC RU]

Why stop when we can openly and freely discuss some of the world hottest
issues that may effect our lives?

[Munnin]

Well a conservitive pundent was busy smearing liberals with the blood of the victims before the blood was cold so I guess I should be fine with it. But I am not; lets try to have a little class and wait until the bodies are burried before we start finger pointing, assigning blame, and all the other petty garbage standard to politics these days.

[Anjin-san]

Because I don't know if any of my friends have been killed, maimed or embedded with peices of train or bus. As munin said can we please wait before we start the big pointless political debates? Out of maybe a sense of respect perhaps?

[ISSAC RU]

Because I don't know if any of my friends have been killed, maimed or embedded with peices of train or bus. As munin said can we please wait before we start the big pointless political debates? Out of maybe a sense of respect perhaps?

Respect? How many innocent arabs are being killed everyday?
Who gave them the respect they deserve?

[Theodore]

Respect? How many innocent arabs are being killed everyday?
Who gave them the respect they deserve?

Don't get us (Western Civilization) started. History holds a stern lesson for those who well and truly pissed off Europeans (and their kin). (http://www.mandelinople.com/2005/07/lack-of-history-classes-part-2.html)

Here's the money quote:



While London never will, we do know all to well from experience that Baghdad or Tehran could very well end up another Tenochtitlan. Combine all the force of arms of the entire Islamic world into one large army and they would stand as such: no air force, no navy, no technology, no industry to back them, no trade to sustain them. The one commodity they have is far more a curse. That they need the dreaded infidel to extract, process and ship it is testament to their weakness. That we have an insatiable appetite is testament to our wealth and strength. Don't confuse the two.

[The great I AM]

I just knew you would come in on this. You are the most hateful example of a person on this forum. People are still dying in hospitals, I haven't heard back from some of the people whom I call friends yet, and here you are using this as a way to further your little war on the west. You are the lowest of the low.


Yesterdays goings on have nothing to do with you, and nothing to do with China, so please just leave it alone. You constantly criticise the war and america and (probably following this) Britain, and are basically saying that its our own fault, but to be honest, I don't care right now. I want to know that the people I hold dear to me are all safe. This is obviously something you have completley failed to understand just by beginning this thread. Why can't you show some humanity, which you claim is lacking everywhere else? Why can't you leave alone, even for a moment, when you criticise for not leaving alone?

This is still fresh in our minds. I was scared sitting on the bus going to work this morning just in case it all happened again. I won't use the during rush hour for probably a few weeks. What about you? Has this changed your life at all? No? Not even slightly? Right, now that thats sorted, **** off.

[T.Lee]

I condemn you, ISAAC RU.

[The great I AM]

I condemn you, ISAAC RU.

Yup, me too.

[louisvandalen]

Respect? How many innocent arabs are being killed everyday? Who gave them the respect they deserve?

The difference between you and normal people is that the later do sympathise with any victim of violence: Asian, EU, US, Arab or whatever.

Then again, your reaction doesn't really matter that much since you will give us the respect we deserve, eventually. It's just a matter of time before EU/US troops march the streets of Mecca to restore order in a "gone-wild" world.

And the lamb of God returned as a Lion........

L'union fait la force (Belgium)
Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité (France)
Je maintiendrai (The Netherlands)

[louisvandalen]

History holds a stern lesson for those who well and truly pissed off Europeans (and their kin). (http://www.mandelinople.com/2005/07/lack-of-history-classes-part-2.html)

Didn't read it before my last post. Hear hear!!!

[Gregory]

I just wanted to say Issac, I have been here for less than a week, and already I find you repulsive. I am the type of person who likes everyone, and even I find you disgusting. You give Middle Easterners a bad name. Its people like YOU that are the cause of all this. The people who try their hardest to start as much shit as they can because noone loves them at home. Do you LIKE doing this? Well here little prick. Go get a life, stop staying online 24/7 and trying to start little wars between people. Noone likes you, there isnt even a moderate opinion towards you, in a forum with 4,552 members and 3 times as many people who havent signed up, not ONE person has any feeling other than hate and pity towards you. You need to get a hint, go back into the hole you crawled out of and DIE. We all have family members in that part of the world, some are now hurt or gone forever. You want to act like a little bitch? Do it in your company when noone else is around. Do you think acting like this makes you cool? Do you think that we are all sitting here saying " Damn, That kid is freaking amazing, he is my role model?" NO. Truth is, your just some scared little kid, who wouldnt DARE to say this stuff to any of our faces because you know we would beat the living shit out of you.

You think that saying stuff about politics makes you look like a smart and rebellious kid? Well you dont know SHIT about politics, you dont know shit about ANYTHING. So listen kid, go back, do some research, and then come and talk to us, because you arent worth our time.

[Gregory]

Someone had to stop beating around the bush and say it, so I did. For any of you who were offended, sorry, and to issac, you are so lucky that I pity you, you have no idea.

[Gregory]

The difference between you and normal people is that the later do sympathise with any victim of violence: Asian, EU, US, Arab or whatever.

Then again, your reaction doesn't really matter that much since you will give us the respect we deserve, eventually. It's just a matter of time before EU/US troops march the streets of Mecca to restore order in a "gone-wild" world.

And the lamb of God returned as a Lion........

L'union fait la force (Belgium)
Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité (France)
Je maintiendrai (The Netherlands)

Talk as much shit as you want about him, but dont start talking like that about a country and its people. The majority of them are peace loving. In the koran it SPECIFICALLY says : Dont kill anyone, religion or creed doesnt matter. All life is the same to god. if you do you will pay for it later. The terrorist twisted this by saying (same as what the christians said during the crusades) "oh the mean dont kill other MUSLIMS!!!!" they specifically didnt read the "anyone" part

[Berugijin]

Didn't read it before my last post. Hear hear!!!

HEAR HEAR??

Wow.

I always liked to think that Europe was civil now, considering we've seen so much bloodshed on this continent already, but in reality, it's only been fifty years since the last time we shot eachother to hell.

I, for one, am not saying "hear hear" to the destructive capabilities of Europe.

[Akai Bushi]

My heart goes out to all my English brothers. You helped us during 9/11. I hope there is a way we can help you.
***
I can't believe someone has the nerve to basically say they were asking for it. The terrorist are to blame. No one, but terrorist. Only cowards fight in such away. Al Q. and all the other groups have no sense of honor or respect. Bombing civilians; women and children, on purpose no less. Before 9/11 we weren't occupying Iraq and Afganistan. By bombing civilians the terrorists were asking to be hunted down like the dogs that they are. There is no need to talk nice about murderers. Thousands or lives gone thousands more injured. New York, London, Madrid, whats next Tokyo or Roma. What do they expect us to do just sit here and take it? I'm sorry if I offended anyone who has lost a loved one in this tradgedy, but this uncivilized stuff pisses me off.

[JSchmidt]

but in reality, it's only been fifty years since the last time we shot eachother to hell.

Far less than that..ever heard of a place called Yugoslavia?

Jakob

[KhawMengLee]

Is it the Terrorists?
Who is the true barbarian behind all of these horrible tragdies?
Who is the one plant this terrorism seed?
Who is the one invade other country thru a violent war?
How can those who is brutally killing the innocent lives of the
others condemn this tragdy?
Who has the right to give the meaning of '' Terrorism'' when they
are acting in such way?
The deaths of the innocent men and women in this tradgy should
be remembered, but this doesn't mean their lives are more important
than the others across the world.
If we must condemn , We must Condemn the true masterminded
terrorist behind all of these killings.

Whatever our political viewpoints or assumptions are on this, lets stop right now, eh? People have been killed. Thank god my friends are safe...but lets not forget those who are lost.

Whatever your viewpoint is STOP RIGHT NOW! This includes those who want to sell the War on Terror issue or you ISSAC(for starting this totally tactless and ill timed thread).

Let the dead have their peace and a nation mourn!

If not for humanity's sake then for the respect for our fellow British kendoka.

[Paikea]

Don't get us (Western Civilization) started. History holds a stern lesson for those who well and truly pissed off Europeans (and their kin). (http://www.mandelinople.com/2005/07/lack-of-history-classes-part-2.html)
...You know Theodore, you and I sit on opposite sides on the political stuff but in this I have to agree and it's something that has been in my mind since Sept. 11, 2001. I absolutely do fear what we are capable of (specifically the US, but the points about Western Europe and by inference, Canada, are very well taken) when well-and-truly enraged as a nation or as a group of allies.

Collectively, we are capable of going quite mad and have the power to "solve" the problem with extreme prejudice (read: "God's own thunder"). We will feel bad about it later, but that will not stop the madness from happening in the first place - IF the triggering event is sufficiently heinous.

Please don't take that as some kind of macho "we're gonna get you" statement, as I do not advocate this as a course of action - only as a very real possibility with an unfortunately well-founded historical precedent.

[Lil' Kenshi]

Is it the Terrorists?
Who is the true barbarian behind all of these horrible tragdies?
Who is the one plant this terrorism seed?
Who is the one invade other country thru a violent war?
How can those who is brutally killing the innocent lives of the
others condemn this tragdy?
Who has the right to give the meaning of '' Terrorism'' when they
are acting in such way?
The deaths of the innocent men and women in this tradgy should
be remembered, but this doesn't mean their lives are more important
than the others across the world.
If we must condemn , We must Condemn the true masterminded
terrorist behind all of these killings.

Being the lefty that I am, I find what you say profound. But in all honesty, it's very insesitive.

[Theodore]

You know Theodore, you and I sit on opposite sides on the political stuff but in this I have to agree and it's something that has been in my mind since Sept. 11, 2001. I absolutely do fear what we are capable of (specifically the US, but the points about Western Europe and by inference, Canada, are very well taken) when well-and-truly enraged as a nation or as a group of allies.

Collectively, we are capable of going quite mad and have the power to "solve" the problem with extreme prejudice (read: "God's own thunder"). We will feel bad about it later, but that will not stop the madness from happening in the first place - IF the triggering event is sufficiently heinous.

Please don't take that as some kind of macho "we're gonna get you" statement, as I do not advocate this as a course of action - only as a very real possibility with an unfortunately well-founded historical precedent.

Perry, thanks for understanding my post. I was in no way advocating the indiscriminate destruction of those who are not responsible for these atrocities, I was pointing out that those who do continue to exist only by our sufferance and our lack of desire to deal with this situation the same way that the medieval church did with the Albigenses (http://www.medievalchurch.org.uk/h_cath_alb.html).

A more recent analogy is the Hiroshima/Nagasaki bombing. The Japanese LEADERS during WWII overplayed their hand and thought that by running up the American death count in Saipan, Iwo Jima, and especially Okinawa, that we would rather negotiate a peace on terms more favorable to Japan than unconditional surrender.

Because of the asymmetry of information (Allied leaders knew we had the A-bomb, the Japanese did not) their strategy failed and Truman did a cost benefit analysis and made the politically decision to drop the bomb. Everyone has an opinion about it and none of them are probably right, least of all mine. In the end, however, the war was ended by means that were so terrible that we shudder to think of them to this day.

Militant Islamacists must bear the lessons of history in mind is all that I am trying to say because if sufficiently provoked they could bring down upon more than themselves what you have termed "God's own thunder."

[Paikea]

...what you have termed "God's own thunder."Actually it was Martin Sheen playing Josiah Bartlett on TV, but it's great metaphor (or simile?). Either way, it scares the hell out of me.

[Berugijin]

Militant Islamacists must bear the lessons of history in mind is all that I am trying to say because if sufficiently provoked they could bring down upon more than themselves what you have termed "God's own thunder."

You know, these people blow themselves up right? Somehow I don't think they care what happens in the long run...

And for the leaders who don't blow themselves up, a nuke on Mecca for example would be like a wet dream for them: plenty more recruits.

[drizzt]

Is it the Terrorists?
Who is the true barbarian behind all of these horrible tragdies?
Who is the one plant this terrorism seed?
Who is the one invade other country thru a violent war?
How can those who is brutally killing the innocent lives of the
others condemn this tragdy?
Who has the right to give the meaning of '' Terrorism'' when they
are acting in such way?
The deaths of the innocent men and women in this tradgy should
be remembered, but this doesn't mean their lives are more important
than the others across the world.
If we must condemn , We must Condemn the true masterminded
terrorist behind all of these killings.

Issac, I hope for your sake im wrong and your right about there being no God.....otherwise, i look forward to the day you will burn in hell(and i dont care who does or doesnt like that statement).....

You just sank to the bottom of the tank here. you bellow the bottom feeders. When this was posted, people were dying in a hospital, many of whom never even SUPPORTED actions against any country or group, but you dare to insenuate they somehow got what they had coming?

Ive said it before, and ill say it again, GROW UP. Stop copying, pasting, and then butchering the most liberal, inflamatory horse **** you can find.

I dont beleive in war, but the INTENTIONAL slaughter of civilian populations is a war crime under Geneva, if i remember correctly. Either these people were simply common murderers, or war criminals. Unfortunatly people die, even civilians in war. But to hit only a civilian target intentionaly is murder.

To the friends, relatives, and even members who were hit by this henous incident, I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

[Theodore]

And for the leaders who don't blow themselves up, a nuke on Mecca for example would be like a wet dream for them: plenty more recruits.

Attrition of their ranks is probably occurring as we type. (http://fallbackbelmont.blogspot.com/2005/07/iraq-and-london.html)

[samurai999]

Not again..... :disapp: :disapp:

Tim

[ISSAC RU]

Get back to the topic people , Stop the personal attacks.
If you can't argue the points just go home and don't come here
at all. Prove your points are better or be quite.
Personal attacks means you are as immature as some
grade 6 bully in the school.


Huh? When AL Qualda Bombed London they are terrorist but when
they bombed Russians they are freedom fighters?
When chechnya terrorists bombed Russians and kill Russians
they are fighting for freedom and independence?
When Free-Tibet terrorists bombed Chinese they are fighting
for the Human rights?
Tell me , Does this make sense?
Those people died for nothing?
Only British people and American people can feel the pain?


How can a true democractic country invade others without
asking their own people? You call that democracy and justices?
Barbarian Logic

[JSchmidt]

Attrition of their ranks is probably occurring as we type. (http://fallbackbelmont.blogspot.com/2005/07/iraq-and-london.html)

That guy is misguided on many levels. How the hell would he sneak 500kgs of explosive into a packed tube train?...I was a couple of trains behind one of those that blew up and I could barely fit with my bogu bag.

At that stage of the IRA campaign, which he refers to, could be called 'the more civilised' part. Coded warnings were given, usually with enough time to evacuate the area. Maximum disruption, with minimal casualties.
Whoever was behind yesterdays attack just wanted maximum casualties and looking at it bomb for bomb, it was just as effective as the Madrid bombings.

Jakob

[Lloromannic]

Gregory:
ISSAC_RU is not middle eastern, he is a chinese living in Canada.

[rainmaker]

For those who are new in this forum, you don't need to concern about issac. He is not Chinese. He is not jewish, even though he has Jewish name. He is not even Canadian, not worthy. He is just some dumb ass who wants to get attention. He is just poor 16 years old get beaten by grade 6 bully..




Get back to the topic people , Stop the personal attacks.
If you can't argue the points just go home and don't come here
at all. Prove your points are better or be quite.
Personal attacks means you are as immature as some
grade 6 bully in the school.


Huh? When AL Qualda Bombed London they are terrorist but when
they bombed Russians they are freedom fighters?
When chechnya terrorists bombed Russians and kill Russians
they are fighting for freedom and independence?
When Free-Tibet terrorists bombed Chinese they are fighting
for the Human rights?
Tell me , Does this make sense?
Those people died for nothing?
Only British people and American people can feel the pain?


How can a true democractic country invade others without
asking their own people? You call that democracy and justices?
Barbarian Logic

[drizzt]

Get back to the topic people , Stop the personal attacks.
If you can't argue the points just go home and don't come here
at all. Prove your points are better or be quite.
Personal attacks means you are as immature as some
grade 6 bully in the school.



Isaac, you are one giant personal assault on everyone and everything. your posts have no merrit. i will not sit and debate with a troll spouting horse excremint on an internet forum. youve gone one step beyone decency. Berugijin, anjin-san, and several others(including myself) have managed to have quite heated arguments here, but we have learned to draw a fine line at decency in intelligence. You are a troll intent on insulting others. If i had my way you would be banned for this post.

[Andoru]

I'll bite.

Having an open discussion of what is the definition of "terrorism" is one thing, but implying, being the case in Isaac RU's post, that what has happened to London is justified, is another.

I don't care what kind of political ping-pong you'd like to play, the fact of the matter is that many people have died.

Wars had been waged since the beginning of ages. Many innocent lives had been lost. How does one value lives when there are people who so strongly believe in "an eye for an eye"? Sacrificing innocent lives for political end is never a moral justification. The hatred runs so deep and the carnage is never ending. Who is the real enemy here?

So for now, Isaac RU, I strongly suggest that you let it drop. There is mourning to be done here.

[ISSAC RU]

For those who are new in this forum, you don't need to concern about issac. He is not Chinese. He is not jewish, even though he has Jewish name. He is not even Canadian, not worthy. He is just some dumb ass who wants to get attention. He is just poor 16 years old get beaten by grade 6 bully..

Is this all you can do ?
Where is your big moral standing ground huh?
Ha , comeo on. Show me all you got ~
What a loser you are. If you don't agree with me show me some points !~
Because you done something wrong you just want to avoid and stop it ?
Is this your way of living on the planet?
Put yourself in a hole of misery and can't even debt properly with a 16 year old?
Its like we play a chess game and once you lose you just stand up mess the
chessboard and start yelling like a crazy nutball.
Oh , I am sorry mister. I didn't you are just that retarded.
--Dailing-----~~~~911
A: Hi doctor , there is a crazy nutball running around on the street.
D: He is a korean and kindda of retarteded with a last name of Ro?
A: Yep.
D: Thats him , Sorry for the bother. He escaped our hosiptal about
2 days ago. Thank you for reminding me , we will come up here and pick
him up shortly.


If you want to avoid this problem , go ahead.
This kind of attacks will continue go on in the future if you don't
face it today.

[ISSAC RU]

Isaac, you are one giant personal assault on everyone and everything. your posts have no merrit. i will not sit and debate with a troll spouting horse excremint on an internet forum. youve gone one step beyone decency. Berugijin, anjin-san, and several others(including myself) have managed to have quite heated arguments here, but we have learned to draw a fine line at decency in intelligence. You are a troll intent on insulting others. If i had my way you would be banned for this post.

Whats this?
When someone in Britain died we should be feel sorry for them ,but
when Iraqis died they are just being punished for terrorism?
British are people and Iraqis are not?
You can feel the pain and others around the world can not ?

[drizzt]

Is this all you can do ?
Where is your big moral standing ground huh?
Ha , comeo on. Show me all you got ~
What a loser you are. If you don't agree with me show me some points !~
Because you done something wrong you just want to avoid and stop it ?
Is this your way of living on the planet?
Put yourself in a hole of misery and can't even debt properly with a 16 year old?
Its like we play a chess game and once you lose you just stand up mess the
chessboard and start yelling like a crazy nutball.
Oh , I am sorry mister. I didn't you are just that retarded.
--Dailing-----~~~~911
A: Hi doctor , there is a crazy nutball running around on the street.
D: He is a korean and kindda of retarteded with a last name of Ro?
A: Yep.
D: Thats him , Sorry for the bother. He escaped our hosiptal about
2 days ago. Thank you for reminding me , we will come up here and pick
him up shortly.


If you want to avoid this problem , go ahead.
This kind of attacks will continue go on in the future if you don't
face it today.



Please translate, "I didn't you are just that retarded". Is comeo a new word? Im not the spelling Nazi here, but if your going to tell someone hes stupid, please make an effort at properly(even close works) typing the language.


Isaac, in all honesty, being made fun of you is less hurtful than being made fun of by a six year old. We would debate with you if you would do something besides quote CNN and tell us were all evil american dogs, wich btw, is the basis of EVERY ARGUMENT you make. Were american, were wrong, and your right.

Do two things and ill hold a debate with you all the time.

A. speak in a semi-cohesive manner. Im not asking for a term paper, nor perfect spelling, but PLEASE try to organize your thoughts into more than random, chat room-ish crap. My posts are along way from perfect, but my point gets generaly across.
B. Come up with an original thought. I know you dont think we recognize it, but i hear the same crap your spewing on the news everynight. You dont even provide original research or evidence, you quote what the tv tells you.

Your asking us to take you seriously, but you launch rude, degrading attacks on people and subjects you have no personal knowledge of. This is not an AOL chatroom, it is an international message board full of mostly well edjucated people. Bring a subject up worht debating, grounded in FACT, and you will find your respect and debate. Otherwise please do us all a favor and bugger off.......

[ISSAC RU]

-1987 . In Gulf of Persia American Destroyer send out a cruise missle
attacked a plan carried with 300+ passengers , As Result , all of them died. American answers were : We are regretful that has happned , we thought
that was a military target.

-1999 . American F-117 Bombed Chinese embassy in Yugo. 2+ died and 30 others were injured. American asnwers : We mistakenly thought that was a
military target. We are regretful that has happened.

Those two are just some very recent things that has happened. Those two
are just simple cases. If you count how many people in the world died
direct / indirect because of American Foreign Policy since 1945, you will be surpised , but they ever said a sorry? No , all the answers are '' Regretful'' .
No , thank you.
Pain in our heart should be forgotten?

[drizzt]

Whats this?
When someone in Britain died we should be feel sorry for them ,but
when Iraqis died they are just being punished for terrorism?
British are people and Iraqis are not?
You can feel the pain and others around the world can not ?

I do feel pain every day for the inocents that are killed in conflicts around the world. Do you weep for all the children starving to death thanks to tribal warfare in africa? Do you weep for the mothers and fathers who have lost there sons and daughters, husbands and wives, in countless conflicts around the world. Do you weep for the starving children of Russia and the former eastern block countries, who barely have food because of severe depression? No Isaac, I think you feel no compassion for any of them. I think all you feel is a burning desire to cause trouble.

I do not enjoy the thought the US invaded Iraq. I dont not like the idea innocents have died because of it. I do however feel that an international threat that could have meant the death of BILLIONS, is a cause worth taking up. Wether you agree that at the point of invasion, saddam hussein had nuclear or biological weapons or not, he was a dangerous dictator with the blood of thousands of innocents on his hands.

There a question isaac. Do you feel pain for the Curds casualy slaughtered by Hussein with Bio weapons as they fought for freedom?

[drizzt]

-1987 . In Gulf of Persia American Destroyer send out a cruise missle
attacked a plan carried with 300+ passengers , As Result , all of them died. American answers were : We are regretful that has happned , we thought
that was a military target.

-1999 . American F-117 Bombed Chinese embassy in Yugo. 2+ died and 30 others were injured. American asnwers : We mistakenly thought that was a
military target. We are regretful that has happened.

Those two are just some very recent things that has happened. Those two
are just simple cases. If you count how many people in the world died
direct / indirect because of American Foreign Policy since 1945, you will be surpised , but they ever said a sorry? No , all the answers are '' Regretful'' .
No , thank you.
Pain in our heart should be forgotten?

How bought tienamen square(i beleive i spelled that wrong), or the attempted invasion of the sovereign state of South Korea with chinese aid?

No country is perfect. Not China, not Britain, Not the US, none of them. That does not give rouge terrorists the right to KILL civilian populations.

[ISSAC RU]

Please translate, "I didn't you are just that retarded". Is comeo a new word? Im not the spelling Nazi here, but if your going to tell someone hes stupid, please make an effort at properly(even close works) typing the language.


Isaac, in all honesty, being made fun of you is less hurtful than being made fun of by a six year old. We would debate with you if you would do something besides quote CNN and tell us were all evil american dogs, wich btw, is the basis of EVERY ARGUMENT you make. Were american, were wrong, and your right.

Do two things and ill hold a debate with you all the time.

A. speak in a semi-cohesive manner. Im not asking for a term paper, nor perfect spelling, but PLEASE try to organize your thoughts into more than random, chat room-ish crap. My posts are along way from perfect, but my point gets generaly across.
B. Come up with an original thought. I know you dont think we recognize it, but i hear the same crap your spewing on the news everynight. You dont even provide original research or evidence, you quote what the tv tells you.

Your asking us to take you seriously, but you launch rude, degrading attacks on people and subjects you have no personal knowledge of. This is not an AOL chatroom, it is an international message board full of mostly well edjucated people. Bring a subject up worht debating, grounded in FACT, and you will find your respect and debate. Otherwise please do us all a favor and bugger off.......

Rude attack? look over this thread , who started the rude comment.
I started a peaceful converstaion and someone in here must talk
"American ( If you don't agree with us , you are a hater you are a bastard and you should die ) '' to me . At least I m talking in a language you understand. Maybe my english is realy bad , so what?Do I care? Can you discuss something in Chinese with me ? No , so beat it .

[drizzt]

Rude attack? look over this thread , who started the rude comment.
I started a peaceful converstaion and someone in here must talk
"American ( If you don't agree with us , you are a hater you are a bastard and you should die ) '' to me . At least I m talking in a language you understand. Maybe my english is realy bad , so what?Do I care? Can you discuss something in Chinese with me ? No , so beat it .

Ha, I new you were playing games. you slipped up and almost had it going ther at the end. I dougbt very seriously you could hold a conversation in chinese either so......

Regardless, you took "rude attack" wrong. The rude attack i was referning to was this thread spewing cow EXCREMENT about people, essiantly blaming them for what happend. I was trying to be tactful, but maybe you understand a cruder term.

[Gregory]

-1987 . In Gulf of Persia American Destroyer send out a cruise missle
attacked a plan carried with 300+ passengers , As Result , all of them died. American answers were : We are regretful that has happned , we thought
that was a military target.

-1999 . American F-117 Bombed Chinese embassy in Yugo. 2+ died and 30 others were injured. American asnwers : We mistakenly thought that was a
military target. We are regretful that has happened.

Those two are just some very recent things that has happened. Those two
are just simple cases. If you count how many people in the world died
direct / indirect because of American Foreign Policy since 1945, you will be surpised , but they ever said a sorry? No , all the answers are '' Regretful'' .
No , thank you.
Pain in our heart should be forgotten?

Issac, like I said, you have NO idea about politics, copying and pasting info will not make you any less on a dumbass. Truth is, you need a LIFE. Get a girlfriend, one as twisted as you, and be happy. Thats your problem: you need a girl. Most people can cope without one, you need the attention. Maybe your mother didnt support you enough, maybe your father said that you were a disgrace. One way or another, you are damaged goods and should be dealt with as such.

In a way I pity you. To me you seem like you live a very sad life.
But at the same time, I despise you with a passion, and if you were on fire, I would help, but not to any extra extent.
Thats when you know your life is worthless. When noone will even help save your life. Your point of view, your ideas. When all of that is considered nothing to someone, thats when you need to take a second look at yourself.

I say this to you with no sarcasm of any sort and with a completely serious demeanor: change your ways, or die. Either become a better person, or go and die, because thats ALL you are good for.

[Akai Bushi]

The fact of the matter is no matter what we say or have an opinion on it really amounts to nothing. The US and UK will continue with the War on Terror.
So that is beside the point and this thread is a waste of finger strength.

This is my last post on this.

Now the real matter at hand. Making sure those 700 injured get well and the families of the dead are in some way consoled. God speed and God bless.

[ISSAC RU]

Issac, like I said, you have NO idea about politics, copying and pasting info will not make you any less on a dumbass. Truth is, you need a LIFE. Get a girlfriend, one as twisted as you, and be happy. Thats your problem: you need a girl. Most people can cope without one, you need the attention. Maybe your mother didnt support you enough, maybe your father said that you were a disgrace. One way or another, you are damaged goods and should be dealt with as such.

In a way I pity you. To me you seem like you live a very sad life.
But at the same time, I despise you with a passion, and if you were on fire, I would help, but not to any extra extent.
Thats when you know your life is worthless. When noone will even help save your life. Your point of view, your ideas. When all of that is considered nothing to someone, thats when you need to take a second look at yourself.

I say this to you with no sarcasm of any sort and with a completely serious demeanor: change your ways, or die. Either become a better person, or go and die, because thats ALL you are good for.

Say all the crap you like , I am a hater I am a twisted person..blah blah
blah..whatever you like.I am not even going to pity u a answer.
How old are you ? GFGFGFGFGF? is that all you think about? what a pity..
Ah , I can see my future enemy in here already...Hahah..


One day you will be regretful for what you said when you got killed by your own action.
Payday will come to you and your country.

[h2o]

Actually, Issac has ha point in the news coverage of terrorattacks in the west vs. other murders in foreign, non-western countries. I have too reacted on this on a number of occassions.
200 people dead in Africa?: Have a three minute report on the news.
30 people dead in London?: Cancel shows and speculate in what happened for a week.
But, that's about everything I share with Issac though :)

And, just to be extra flamesafe, I must say that I in no way "justify" murder on anyone, anywhere.

[Andoru]

Of course, news coverage has been biased in this regard since god knows when. However, that does not reflect that us individuals value lives differently.

[Berugijin]

Say all the crap you like , I am a hater I am a twisted person..blah blah
blah..whatever you like.I am not even going to pity u a answer.
How old are you ? GFGFGFGFGF? is that all you think about? what a pity..
Ah , I can see my future enemy in here already...Hahah..


One day you will be regretful for what you said when you got killed by your own action.
Payday will come to you and your country.

Terrorism is a knife that cuts both ways.

You can't beat the West because we have goverment-sponsored terrorism. And our goverments are rich. So damn rich. And the Americans have already proven that they don't need a valid excuse to invade a couple of countries.

If I were a Muslim, I'd be nice and STFU.

[mingshi]

One day you will be regretful for what you said when you got killed by your own action.
This sentence soooo reminds me of this:- (http://www.banksy.co.uk/pops/outdoors/images/monkey.jpg)

[louisvandalen]

I, for one, am not saying "hear hear" to the destructive capabilities of Europe.

Without them we wouldn't be free, wealthy and healthy.

Just to get it right (dropping a short comment that is not backed was a bit careless but the kid really stirred my stomach after again having to witness another blast between unaware commuters):

Primary statement: War=not nice!

I'll try to motivate my comment: In this case we have a rather huge problem, as long as countries promote hatred against others there is no safety, anywhere. If we disable the roots of fanatism it will turn out alright in the long run. Then again by saying this a proper alternative has to be offered (which is really the hard part) especially in the early days after conflict. But with all the money the EU and the US have to spent we have the posibility.

It's still to early for Iraq but if you look at the events in Yugoslavia: Big bombs brought peace. The UN troops down there with minor firepower took a real beating for years while the killing of thousands continued. The EU/US then came to a basic agreement in Dayton. This was not a very nice solution for large groups of people since they had to be relocated to other areas defined by the Dayton agreements. I guess you could call this ethnic cleansing (thats considered a crime against humanity, but we did it anyway). Ofcourse the Serbs oposed but where forced back by NATO bombs. The "wartime governements" where replaced and slowly peace returned. Everyone can travel down there freely and safely now. The same thing is happening in Iraq, a looneytoon governement is being replaced by a much less radical entity. After any conflict the economical situation will improve greatly (since it hits rock bottom at the beginning) providing jobs, food and stability (the foundations of peace). Governemental instititutions like the police and military are reorganised providing a much better system preventing totalitarian powers. And yes, also in the former Yugoslavia there are still a lot of people pissed especially with the US since they pulled the short end. But the anti-US demonstrations we did see in the past in Belgrade are history. The ones that still reject events are diminishing fast. All sides are starting to realise that some wars shouldn't be fought, to bad they took the hardway to find out. Especially not when civies are the main target (like in a civil war or like now, again, in London). This can not be tolerated.

There is no way we can beat terror without adressing the countries where this starts.

3 times is enough.

I really don't see another solution. Discussion is definatly not going to work since there is no one to talk to. If I would offer a safehouse to bombs, detonaters, money or suicidekillers what would you do to me. Wouldn't I be found guilty? If I allow you, or worse support you, in recruiting any of the mentioned before I'm more guilty as the brainwashed idiot pushing the button.

Then again with so many "rouge" countries this approach will be a rather destructive one to begin with. Maybe it is a better idear to just sit and wait for Al Qaeda and whomever are behind them to get their hands on a nuke. With the financial support of a country this is definatly going to happen. Sooner or later. For the record: http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-06-26-iran_x.htm?csp=34 And to add to the threath: http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/06/30/iran.president/ . We ARE at the edge of dawn.

I am not saying that it will be impossible for some scumbag terrorist to get a nuke without the support of a country but man these things are expensive and hard to fabricate. It will reduce the chances greatly, adding to my and your personal safety. Not to forget the ones we love and our surroundings that could be turned into a nuclear wasteland..

How do you think this problem can be resolved otherwise? I'm really curious since I am neither keen on sacrificing the lives of the people I care for. But if necessary: rather in batlle as unexpected sitting in a trolleybus with my family.

I'm not talking an eye for an eye here. It's a million thoughts for 3 eyes. Let's hope they opt for the easy way out this time. But it doesn't look like it.

Peace

But not unconditionaly.......

p.s. For the anti-US/EU lot: I do think the western democracy is the best it gets in average. Not flawless but at least it provides shelter for EVERYONE. We can work, study, love and live in relative freedom and peace no matter what color or religion you might have. Radicals are locked behind bars and re-educated. No matter if they are Arian supremists or wacko Mullah's. There is no tolerance towards the ones that separate and harm others. But even if they do, they will never be treated without decent respect, tortured or worse. (though necessary violence is tolerated depending on the situation) Close to heaven. (mind you, the US still has some issues to resolve on that level, like capital punishment). To me any country that doesn't embrace peace, freedom and equality as the foundation of it's existance can be considered rouge. And the later 3 are not to be there on a local level only. This is my world. This is your world. Let's brush away the remaining pieces of yesterdays life.

[louisvandalen]

In the koran it SPECIFICALLY says : Dont kill anyone, religion or creed doesnt matter. All life is the same to god. if you do you will pay for it later. The terrorist twisted this by saying (same as what the christians said during the crusades) "oh the mean dont kill other MUSLIMS!!!!" they specifically didnt read the "anyone" part

I wasn't really refering to religion and don't care much about written words. Actions I can judge, interpretations not. Since many of the Al Qaeda terrorists have been identified as Saudies Mecca seemed like a good start. For a brief second. Looking at the recent events in Iran we might as well start with Teheran. Please read my previous post on why.

[louisvandalen]

You can't beat the West because we have goverment-sponsored terrorism. And our goverments are rich. So damn rich. And the Americans have already proven that they don't need a valid excuse to invade a couple of countries.

If I were a Muslim, I'd be nice and STFU.

I hope your not bragging about our destructive capabilities here? ;)

Best regards,

Louis

[Hisham]

If I were a Muslim, I'd be nice and STFU.

You're getting into his game and i won't comment on this but don't mistake it as me SingTFU or being nice because i'm a muslim, first and foremost, innocents have died, lets be respectfull and in due time we'll debate/flame whatever.

[Gregory]

Say all the crap you like , I am a hater I am a twisted person..blah blah
blah..whatever you like.I am not even going to pity u a answer.
How old are you ? GFGFGFGFGF? is that all you think about? what a pity..
Ah , I can see my future enemy in here already...Hahah..


One day you will be regretful for what you said when you got killed by your own action.
Payday will come to you and your country.


Firstly, you just did give me a response, so that part of your message wasn't thought out, now was it? and it is "An answer" not "a" answer. Learn some grammar.

Here are your answers:

1) I am 16; birthday June 2 1989
2) I have NO idea what "GFGFGFGFGF?" means. It has a question mark but isnt a sentence. Please fix that up
3) No that isnt what I think about, I also think about Girlfriends, women, ladys, girls, chick, hot people. The list goes on and on.


Bush is completely alien to me. His supporters to me seem amazingly distant in every way. I never said that we wouldn't pay for the stuff we are doing, did I? I dont remember saying I did.

LEARN ABOUT POLITICS BEFORE YOU TALK ABOUT IT. PLEASE

And also. You give all this talk about death and guns, have you ever shot a REAL gun? Have you ever killed anything other than your cousin the cockaroach?.

All you do is be a media whore, you, like most of the others in the world, just listen too fox, or cnn, nbc news and just go around talking about what they said.

You hate our president right? WHY? Give me reasons besides "he stearted a war" and 'he is Stooopid"

Do research before you speak, and if I scare you enough to be considered your enemy, thats your problem, go see a psychologist, not freudian. Ill help you if you want.

[drizzt]

We all know what game isaac is playing now. hes aleady slipped up and forced his hand:).

What berugijin(please tell me how to pronounce that man) said is probably excellent advice, just a tad tacky. Personaly if i were a radical muslim right now, i would step back and learn to play nice. were not demanding you give up your religion(if you notice, the americans who are on a "holy crusade" supposedly, are respecting muslim culture and have not stopped muslim worship in any country they have been involved in.), but we do demand you stop attacking US, British, Spanish, and every other country hurt by terrorism's citizenry. What these people fail to realise is that diplomacy would go a LONG way. Did you notice after we paid the least bit of respect to North Koreas leader, he suddenly decided he might be willing to play nice? its amazing what saying things like "we would be honored if presidnet XXXXX, or thank you president XXX" or whatever polite tital, can do for a diplomatice situation. If these people would try to communicate there message in something but explosives and death, the entire western world might just listen.......


But no there all going to be loony toons(kinda like what isaac is trying to play at).

isaac i notice you still havent answered me. do you feel compassion for all the people i listed in that post? Are you realy concernd about what happens to the suffering of the world? Or are you so centered in on the media you dont know whats happening in the world? I think the later rather than the former is the case......

[Musashi898]

Im so sick of hearing about the london bombing, sorry for offending anyone, but look the Governement had this coming for a long time, NO im not justifying that these terrorists were right, but Tony Blair joined with president bush, his daddy didn't finish off the job so junior is doing it, and our PM joined him, it is no concern of Britain to interfere with other Countries problems. and come on if Blair was so concerned with people's well fair u have alot more trouble in other countries i.e. Zimbabwe to sort out the reason is simple Oil and Allying with the most powerful country America, God i really hate politics so corrupt

[Gregory]

We all know what game isaac is playing now. hes aleady slipped up and forced his hand:).

What berugijin(please tell me how to pronounce that man) said is probably excellent advice, just a tad tacky. Personaly if i were a radical muslim right now, i would step back and learn to play nice. were not demanding you give up your religion(if you notice, the americans who are on a "holy crusade" supposedly, are respecting muslim culture and have not stopped muslim worship in any country they have been involved in.), but we do demand you stop attacking US, British, Spanish, and every other country hurt by terrorism's citizenry. What these people fail to realise is that diplomacy would go a LONG way. Did you notice after we paid the least bit of respect to North Koreas leader, he suddenly decided he might be willing to play nice? its amazing what saying things like "we would be honored if presidnet XXXXX, or thank you president XXX" or whatever polite tital, can do for a diplomatice situation. If these people would try to communicate there message in something but explosives and death, the entire western world might just listen.......


But no there all going to be loony toons(kinda like what isaac is trying to play at).

isaac i notice you still havent answered me. do you feel compassion for all the people i listed in that post? Are you realy concernd about what happens to the suffering of the world? Or are you so centered in on the media you dont know whats happening in the world? I think the later rather than the former is the case......

I agree with you, issac just spews the stuff he hears from others here.

He cant think for himself

[KhawMengLee]

Personaly if i were a radical muslim right now, i would step back and learn to play nice. were not demanding you give up your religion(if you notice, the americans who are on a "holy crusade" supposedly, are respecting muslim culture and have not stopped muslim worship in any country they have been involved in.), but we do demand you stop attacking US, British, Spanish, and every other country hurt by terrorism's citizenry. What these people fail to realise is that diplomacy would go a LONG way. Did you notice after we paid the least bit of respect to North Koreas leader, he suddenly decided he might be willing to play nice? its amazing what saying things like "we would be honored if presidnet XXXXX, or thank you president XXX" or whatever polite tital, can do for a diplomatice situation. If these people would try to communicate there message in something but explosives and death, the entire western world might just listen........

I think the problem here is the lack of diplomacy on the part of the US. The British are always a lot more resourceful in conflicts because they take the time to study their opponents rather than just running in and shooting in all directions screaming "HOOOAAH!".

Take the post 9-11 speeches from Bush. "If you are not with us! You are against us!"

You call, invading a country, destroying its infrastructure, occupying it and then saying "oh, we don't stop them worshipping islam" respect?!?!? The war in Iraq was a rushed unplanned mess.

Respect is understanding the culture firsthand before going into their country. Respect is knowing first hand that US male troops must not search female iraqis. Respect is knowing that the Koran cannot be thrown on the floor when you are searching people and then stepped on.

I'll say that the US forces today are getting this now. They use female troops to search women and are a lot more aware of the culture. But this is a little to late into 2 years of occupation.
************************************************** ***
God i hate saying this(especially after London) but you think these terrorists give a damn what your moral viewpoint is? Take the Iraqi wedding party at the start of the year that the US bombed. They claimed it was a terrorist training group, even though right after the news teams there clearly showed it wasn't. Now how do you think the survivors feel? Do you think he'd have any qualms about dropping a bomb in time square NY?

I hate playing the devil's advocate but this situation is not black and white. It is not good and evil. It takes a lot to drive someone to kill. It takes a heck of a lot to take someone to blow themselves up. This isn't some irrational psycho...its hatred that has been borned through something more than ideology...If you think that having better bombs and bigger guns will stop these killers, think again. You've been bombing Iraq all year long and the insurgents are still going strong...

I agree. Respect and Diplomacy goes a long way. Bush should learn to use it...Afghanistan = Yes. Iraq = well, Bush basically did a better job recruiting for Al Qaida than Bin Laden could ever hope to do.

ps. seriously, tho' this argument is ill timed. Let Britain mourn a bit before pointing fingers.

[Gregory]

Here is the sad part:

If you want to stop all terrorism, you wipe out EVERYONE and everything that is evenslightly linked to the terrorist. If you just kill them, their children will want to kill you. So you have to kill them. You kill the children, their friends will want to kill you. You kill them. You kill them and their family will want to kill you. It cant be stopped. There will ALWAYS be that one person.

[KhawMengLee]

Im so sick of hearing about the london bombing, sorry for offending anyone, but look the Governement had this coming for a long time, NO im not justifying that these terrorists were right, but Tony Blair joined with president bush, his daddy didn't finish off the job so junior is doing it, and our PM joined him, it is no concern of Britain to interfere with other Countries problems. and come on if Blair was so concerned with people's well fair u have alot more trouble in other countries i.e. Zimbabwe to sort out the reason is simple Oil and Allying with the most powerful country America, God i really hate politics so corrupt

Isn't Blair the only PM who refuses to walk 500m from Downing St to Parliament?

[KhawMengLee]

Here is the sad part:

If you want to stop all terrorism, you wipe out EVERYONE and everything that is evenslightly linked to the terrorist. If you just kill them, their children will want to kill you. So you have to kill them. You kill the children, their friends will want to kill you. You kill them. You kill them and their family will want to kill you. It cant be stopped. There will ALWAYS be that one person.

Jesus! that sounds like the vendetta straight out of the Godfather! Don Corleone's mother begging the local Don in Sicily not to kill her son after he killed her husband. And the young child Don Corleone fleeing to America after they gun down his mother. Then he returns a big bad ass mafia boss and stabs the old Don to death.

[The great I AM]

Im so sick of hearing about the london bombing, sorry for offending anyone, but look the Governement had this coming for a long time, NO im not justifying that these terrorists were right, but Tony Blair joined with president bush, his daddy didn't finish off the job so junior is doing it, and our PM joined him, it is no concern of Britain to interfere with other Countries problems. and come on if Blair was so concerned with people's well fair u have alot more trouble in other countries i.e. Zimbabwe to sort out the reason is simple Oil and Allying with the most powerful country America, God i really hate politics so corrupt

Well I do beg your sodding pardon, we'll do our very best not to get the shit blown out of us in the future. And they didn't bomb the government, they bombed us, the people of london. Not one of the 4 bombs was anywhere near the houses of parliement, the mayor's office or buckingham palace. Neither did they attempt to go for Blair at Gleneagles. I didn't vote for Blair and I am against the war in Iraq, but they still tried to blow us all up on our way to work.

Thank you very much.

[Andoru]

Indeed. Terrorism does not discriminate does it? They absolutely have no qualms blowing up their supporters. No wonder they're not popular at all.

Anyway, Sydney, you're next. Be prepared.

[Andou]

Indeed. Terrorism does not discriminate does it? They absolutely have no qualms blowing up their supporters. No wonder they're not popular at all.

Anyway, Sydney, you're next. Be prepared.

Quite the ominous warning. I'm suprised that the US hasn't been hit once more. But...stay safe everyone.

[Gregory]

Indeed. Terrorism does not discriminate does it? They absolutely have no qualms blowing up their supporters. No wonder they're not popular at all.

Anyway, Sydney, you're next. Be prepared.

yes, In fact, one of the less talked about things is that one of the bombs were in an arab neighberhood

[drizzt]

Quite the ominous warning. I'm suprised that the US hasn't been hit once more. But...stay safe everyone.

yea, but im afraid he right on the money. that or Paris or one of the major US cities. Illd like to see me attack south of the masondixon line though. there will be open season on anyone suspected of terrorism(way to many rednecks around here....)

[litige]

LEARN ABOUT POLITICS BEFORE YOU TALK ABOUT IT. PLEASE



I'm gonna repeat myself.
STOP TALKING ETHICS BEFORE YOU TALK ABOUT IT. PEHLEASE.

I'm always dispointed when I hear some bad news like this anytime. I'm with every British now, so as I'm with Iraqis, Spanish, Americans, Yugos, Tibetains, Afghans, etc.... I'm really sorry that my country is part of a vicious circle has every country in the world is. I really don't like any of the killings I heard about or know about. A lot of them are not justified.
I don't know what kind of argument your waiting for ISAAC. But this is not a political debate. It's morality at it's highest, and I don't think at your age you would comprehend stuff that would be said (same goes for greg, you speak in a very violent manner. Is your violence justified? if you think so, then ISAAC's "one" is too. If it is then justified, why would you have anything to say?).

[Musashi898]

Im sorry but that is my opinion, yes i feel sorry for those who died and im sure the peope of London are devastated, but it was going to happen sonner or later, Terrorist i get your point do not discriminate but from their point of view not just the Government but the whole of Britain is a target, but Tony Blair led us into that trap, we are devastated about 50 people dieing, go to Iraq how many have died of car bombers, sucide bombers etc, thousands upon thousands, but i do feel sorry for londoners.

[Satan]

Why stop when we can openly and freely discuss some of the world hottest
issues that may effect our lives?

It seems we have an appointment.

[Infinity]

Im sorry but that is my opinion, yes i feel sorry for those who died and im sure the peope of London are devastated, but it was going to happen sonner or later, Terrorist i get your point do not discriminate but from their point of view not just the Government but the whole of Britain is a target, but Tony Blair led us into that trap, we are devastated about 50 people dieing, go to Iraq how many have died of car bombers, sucide bombers etc, thousands upon thousands, but i do feel sorry for londoners.

come on guys. no one can use logic to explain terrorism.
it is illogical by definition.
it doesnt matter what the leaders of our nations do there will always be people out there who hate us and want us dead and we will never understand why.
people kill people and it is a sad fact of human nature.
we should be devestated by the deaths of the people in london, bali, madrid, iraq, afganistan, usa and every other country that has suffered from act of terrorism.
if everyone was so devestated (and not desensitised) there would be much less hate and killing.

[KhawMengLee]

come on guys. no one can use logic to explain terrorism.
it is illogical by definition.
it doesnt matter what the leaders of our nations do there will always be people out there who hate us and want us dead and we will never understand why.
people kill people and it is a sad fact of human nature.
we should be devestated by the deaths of the people in london, bali, madrid, iraq, afganistan, usa and every other country that has suffered from act of terrorism.
if everyone was so devestated (and not desensitised) there would be much less hate and killing.

No. The scary part of the issue is that the attacks can be explained with logic. What makes it so scary is that if you actually think about it, you'd realize that this was a long time coming.

Hate is not a random emotion. Everything has a cause and effect.

[JSchmidt]

Hate is not a random emotion. Everything has a cause and effect.

Are you saying that there's reasonable logic behind terror attacks?

Be careful how you answer...

Jakob

[The great I AM]

Im sorry but that is my opinion, yes i feel sorry for those who died and im sure the peope of London are devastated, but it was going to happen sonner or later, Terrorist i get your point do not discriminate but from their point of view not just the Government but the whole of Britain is a target, but Tony Blair led us into that trap, we are devastated about 50 people dieing, go to Iraq how many have died of car bombers, sucide bombers etc, thousands upon thousands, but i do feel sorry for londoners.

That is all well and good, but I'm sure you could have said that in the first place without saying "I'm sick of hearing about London" not even 2 days after it had happened. Would you be saying the same thing if it was your home town that had been targetted and you were now wary of using public transport I wonder?

As for the stuff in Iraq with the car bombers and the suicide bombers, I personally would not mind if there was more of it on the news, as we as whole should see what we are being held responsible for, but also remember that although the british troops may have done some pretty rotten things and killed innocents along the way ( a very sad bi-product of war) the suicide bombers and car bombers and what have you are the people that live in those places, not the occupying troops. The mojority of the bloodshed now is from these people,　not the armed forces from overseas that are still there. Does that mean that the suicide bombers colleagues are now going to take revenge on each other for the continued needless killings? Like the police forces picking up their pay packets, or the women and children queing to buy bread and vegetables? No, they won't. The response will be that the west has driven them to it (think about it, driven to kill their OWN people by others?! Does this honeslty make sense?) and they will then blame us for that as well. I belive that we as a country are responsible up to a point, but you can't bring suicide bombings in iraq into this conversation without losing the point of your arguement.

[The great I AM]

Dear All,

I don't know how many people even care about this, but I am so incensed by this oiks posts that I am starting a "Lets ignore the stupid little twat campaign" Starting now, with me. I7m gonna start a thread with this on it as well. I don't really care if you do or not, but I would like people really to know just how much this guy has gotten to me!

Enjoy, and ignore away!

And finally now, because I will never see the reply, to ISSAC RU, you are the biggest **** I have ever had the misfortune of coming across, and I hope you get "Cum across" very soon when you end up in prison.

[Berugijin]

And finally now, because I will never see the reply, to ISSAC RU, you are the biggest **** I have ever had the misfortune of coming across, and I hope you get "Cum across" very soon when you end up in prison.

Yes, because prison rape doesn't even begin to compare to the horrors of trolling on an internet message board... :rolleyes:

[The great I AM]

Yes, because prison rape doesn't even begin to compare to the horrors of trolling on an internet message board... :rolleyes:

Just stick on the ignore list! It'll give you a nice warm glow inside!

[KhawMengLee]

Are you saying that there's reasonable logic behind terror attacks?

Be careful how you answer...

Jakob

2 areas:

1) The terrorist's mindset. Hate is a driving factor but as I said, hate is not something random. I mean hell, I hate Singaporeans and Singaporeans hate us Malaysians. But this is just the typical wish wash hate of rivals. eg. English and the French.

Where you hate a man/race/country enough to kill. That is something else...heck, take an example like this. During the Iran/Iraq conflict, the US, Britain and France gladly supplied Saddam with Chemical weapons. And condoned his use of them(tactically sound because Iraq was on the verge of being overrun).

Now I'm an Iranian whose brother/father/sister/etc has been killed in the gas attacks. Do you think I'd be happy with the US supplying arms to Iraq.

Take it a step further with an Iraqi civilian in Mosul. I watched a live broadcast of a US gunship firing on unarmed civilians. The arab reporter was killed outright. The Iraqis were dancing and cheering around the wreck of Bradley Fighting vehicle. The gunship then opened up on them.

At first the army said it was trying to destroy the vehicle because it might fall into insurgent hands. Then they said its munitions were dangerous to the civilians around. And finally, they said they were being fired upon and just returned fire. But on the video you only hear one source of gunfire and that was from the 50 cal canon on the gunship. How do you think the civilians/insurgents/terrorists feel about the US after that? To them, incidents like this justify their actions.

What I'm trying to say here is that the mindset of the attackers can be understood very easily. Its not just some random blind rage. There is a reason behind it.

2) Second, the objective of the terrorist's are to bring attention/victory by destrupting your lives. They can't fight your military...hell no. And in the bigger picture its no point to them. Kill a soldier...another one comes along. Soldiers are meant to fight and die. When a soldier dies we feel sad but still its their job. When a civilian dies suddenly its "our lives" on the line. Its us the everyday people, who see war as miles away, that are suddenly in the front line.

You need to understand this because its no good thinking "OMG! its madness, irrational etc!" because all this does is add to the panic. You got to understand 'why' they do this. One of the first things I said after the bombing was get back on track and don't let them distrupt your lives. If you understand then you can avoid giving them what they want from these attacks.

************************************************** ********
I definately don't agree with these acts of terrorism. But then again, they have no military muscle. When you are attacked by a nation with superior a navy, airforce and army. How do you fight then? Fighting the armed forces would be suicide. I fight your ground troops you send a bomb by plane.
There is a logic behind why they attack civilians. Albeit being dispicable to us, to them its survival. How else are they going to hurt their enemies?

As they say, war is the sum of all evil.

[JSchmidt]

Erhh, it's all very well talking about Iranian and Iraqis, but they got *nothing* to do with the major terror attacks the last few years. 9/11 was mainly Saudi Arabians, Bali was mainly locals, Madrid mainly Algerians and sofar, the UK is pointing towards British subjects. These guys are not fighting any wars or anything remotely like it...There is no justification for these attacks. None.

Jakob

[KhawMengLee]

Erhh, it's all very well talking about Iranian and Iraqis, but they got *nothing* to do with the major terror attacks the last few years. 9/11 was mainly Saudi Arabians, Bali was mainly locals, Madrid mainly Algerians and sofar, the UK is pointing towards British subjects. These guys are not fighting any wars or anything remotely like it...There is no justification for these attacks. None.

Jakob

Jakob. On our side there is none. But on the bombers end they have their own justification for it. If its Al Qaida influenced...then we need to understand what these buggers are thinking and we either put a bullet in the perps head or we change that ideology and get the Al Qaida foothold out of the UK.

If its something else, like Tim McVeigh, as in homeland terror. Then that's scary on a bigger scale because that means that the person is a psychotic...now that's irrational and even more scarrier bacause he's killing with no real justification behind.

I mean I can understand a militant. But if its a nutter...well how do you rationalise that? He may have done it because he hates the collour of the bloody seats on the tube.

[Mugu]

Jakob. On our side there is none. But on the bombers end they have their own justification for it. If its Al Qaida influenced...then we need to understand what these buggers are thinking and we either put a bullet in the perps head or we change that ideology and get the Al Qaida foothold out of the UK.

If its something else, like Tim McVeigh, as in homeland terror. Then that's scary on a bigger scale because that means that the person is a psychotic...now that's irrational and even more scarrier bacause he's killing with no real justification behind.

I mean I can understand a militant. But if its a nutter...well how do you rationalise that? He may have done it because he hates the collour of the bloody seats on the tube.

I totally agree with you KhawMengLee that we're adding fuel to the fire, but the thing is those "terrorists" told their men it's a Jihad, and some of them think that is just enough justifications just to kill westerners as much as the westerners crusaded against them. Though, I agree Jihad is not the only reason they go after us, but we just keep giving them reasons to kill us (all the stuff you said about a gunship shooting at civilians). Though, to me those civilians shouldn't be there the first place, normal civilians don't dance around after someone was killed, they should have been running and screaming. In a way, they were asking for it. How I see those "civilians" and probably the troops saw those "civilisans" were like Viet Con, you can't tell the differences until they dance around after your troops were killed. This is just as complicated as the Vietnam war; Viet Con vs US troops. You just can't tell the differences. Now, do you still call those "civilians" being killed? In some of our eyes, maybe. But to the arabs, they were civilians and they were heros being killed because they danced around us troops' dead bodies, it's just another good reason to kill the westerners. In another word, they find an excuse to kill us anyway...

[JSchmidt]

I mean I can understand a militant. But if its a nutter...well how do you rationalise that? He may have done it because he hates the collour of the bloody seats on the tube.

Your first mistake is to call the people who commits these attacks "Militants". You are just by doing that, justifying their attacks (seen from their POV). They are just as much nutters as Tim McVeigh or the Soho/Brixton bomber. There is no difference and there is no justification and you cannot rationalize their attacks. That you even attempt to do so, disgusts me.

Jakob

[KhawMengLee]

Though, to me those civilians shouldn't be there the first place, normal civilians don't dance around after someone was killed, they should have been running and screaming. In a way, they were asking for it. How I see those "civilians" and probably the troops saw those "civilisans" were like Viet Con, you can't tell the differences until they dance around after your troops were killed. This is just as complicated as the Vietnam war; Viet Con vs US troops. You just can't tell the differences. Now, do you still call those "civilians" being killed? In some of our eyes, maybe. But to the arabs, they were civilians and they were heros being killed because they danced around us troops' dead bodies, it's just another good reason to kill the westerners. In another word, they find an excuse to kill us anyway...

Those civilians don't want the US in their country. Sorta like those civilians who dragged the corpses of the Security contractors killed in Fallujah around the streets then strung them up in the bridge. In the west we think they are bastards for cheering when we loose one of our boys. To those guys, they say we shouldn't be there...

Iraq was a big mess. First the Americans were seen as liberators, then they became occupiers. Bad planning, big mess.

Take this scene from the first few months after Saddam was beaten. There were a bunch of protestors(peaceful) asking the US to get out. The Sgt in Charge of the picket said to one of the protestors asking him to get out.

"The reason you can protest is because we gave you the freedom to do so!"

"We want you out. American go out!"

"Look, if you don't get lost we're going to take you away."

"What?"

"We will take you away."

************************************************** *******
I personally think they should have supported a faction within first. Let them start the ball rolling and then support later with troops. Going in as an outside force will always make you a target and no matter how much good you do...one missed bomb and one dead iraqi innocent will kill your image totally.

[KhawMengLee]

Your first mistake is to call the people who commits these attacks "Militants". You are just by doing that, justifying their attacks (seen from their POV). They are just as much nutters as Tim McVeigh or the Soho/Brixton bomber. There is no difference and there is no justification and you cannot rationalize their attacks. That you even attempt to do so, disgusts me.

Jakob

Why did they attack London then? New York? Madrid? Bali?

Why not Hong Kong or Malaysia or Shang Hai?

There must be a rational behind it. If rationalizing murder and killing disgusts you then you might as well petition to have the entire criminal psyche dept. of you police disbanded. Heck I don't like the bombings any more than you do. I got family in London and I sure as hell was worried for the 24 hours I couldn't reach them.

If you can understand the problem's origins, you can avoid it or prevent it. Rather than try and deal with it only when it becomes a problem.

[JSchmidt]

If rationalizing murder and killing disgusts you then you might as well petition to have the entire criminal psyche dept. of you police disbanded.
Wtf does that have to do with it and you have still completly and utterly failed to explained why the Iranians and Iraqis got anything to do with it.


Heck I don't like the bombings any more than you do. I got family in London and I sure as hell was worried for the 24 hours I couldn't reach them.


Why worried?..if they had died, you already had a rational explanation for it.

Jakob

[KhawMengLee]

Wtf does that have to do with it and you have still completly and utterly failed to explained why the Iranians and Iraqis got anything to do with it.

Iran/Iraq and Al Qaida. I based my comments on the immidiate link the Authorities gave between the bombing and AlQaida. Right now the happenings in the mid east is a direct rallying point and recruitment drive for the group.

Take the Crusades. The Church says Christians are being murdered in Jerusalem and 30,000 people march off to kill muslims. Al Qaida says the same thing and from all around the world ignorant/impressionable muslims go off to kill westerners.

The link between the mid east and the bombings at home. Well, if the perps were AlQaida influenced or members. The link between Iran/Iraq is pretty plain and simple...Al Qaida using the incidents and tragedies in Iraq to influence their operatives in London.


Why worried?..if they had died, you already had a rational explanation for it.

Now that's just being spiteful and immature.

[JSchmidt]

Now that's just being spiteful and immature.

No, it's putting your attacks on the UK and the USA on this board into perspective. They havent even pulled all the bodies out of the tunnel and you are busy 'rationalizing' the attacks.
I was just around the corner when the bus on Tavistock Square blew and I can assure you that no amount 'rationalizing' can justify this...try as you may.

[KhawMengLee]

No, it's putting your attacks on the UK and the USA on this board into perspective. They havent even pulled all the bodies out of the tunnel and you are busy 'rationalizing' the attacks.
I was just around the corner when the bus on Tavistock Square blew and I can assure you that no amount 'rationalizing' can justify this...try as you may.

Hey, I didn't start with this whole rationalizing business. Read my first post on this bloody thread for god's sakes. The only difference is I played the devil's advocate. And since bloody when have I attacked the UK?!??! Mate, did I say you guys deserved it?WTF?!

For the last time. I am not agreeing with the terrorists. And there is no way in hell I would justify it. All I said is you feel what you feel and they(the terrorists) feel what they feel.

************************************************** ********

You're right. No amount of rationalization can justify this. That's because rationalization gives us a reason, not an excuse. Please the the difference between the two.

I am giving a reason. And there is no excuse for the actions of the terrorists.

[Gregory]

I'm gonna repeat myself.
STOP TALKING ETHICS BEFORE YOU TALK ABOUT IT. PEHLEASE.

I'm always dispointed when I hear some bad news like this anytime. I'm with every British now, so as I'm with Iraqis, Spanish, Americans, Yugos, Tibetains, Afghans, etc.... I'm really sorry that my country is part of a vicious circle has every country in the world is. I really don't like any of the killings I heard about or know about. A lot of them are not justified.
I don't know what kind of argument your waiting for ISAAC. But this is not a political debate. It's morality at it's highest, and I don't think at your age you would comprehend stuff that would be said (same goes for greg, you speak in a very violent manner. Is your violence justified? if you think so, then ISAAC's "one" is too. If it is then justified, why would you have anything to say?).


I REALLY feel my violence is justified, if you want to know why, pm me, I am not going to say it here

[Mugu]

"The reason you can protest is because we gave you the freedom to do so!"

"We want you out. American go out!"

"Look, if you don't get lost we're going to take you away."

"What?"

"We will take you away."


Look, I don't and a lot of Americans don't agree with Bush, but what can we do? We got a guy with a rich daddy as president. We're stuck with him for a few more years. The war should never have started, but now it's already started, I don't think we should leave. This is how I see the war no matter how much the Iraqis want us to go. If you take your dog and shit on my lawn, I want you to clean it up. This is how I see this whole Iraq war. I'm one of those people who usually just goes, "Fine! We'll leave. Do whatever the hell you want." Then can you imagine what's gonna be happen to that country? It's not an excuse the US uses, but it's a fact. And some Iraqis do want the US to stay because they either think the same as me, or they really want the US to help them to build a new country. Though, I wanna see what happens if the US leaves now, and then what those Iraqis say and bitch about later that the US didn't help clean up.

Btw, mutilate and drag a corpse around isn't a good way to protest, if I was there, I'll just shoot them also. Because they have no respect even for a dead person, they don't deserve respect at all.

[KhawMengLee]

Look Jakob, I apologize.

Its the worst possible time for this sort of debate and I wasn't thinking when I wanted fight this one out. Sorry for the comments and the angry words.

Could we pull back and just let it be.

[Stealth]

1) The terrorist's mindset. Hate is a driving factor

This is where most make the first mistake: It's not hate but FAITH that makes a suicidekiller to flick the switch.

Without a prospect on several virgins and a place next to Allah people wouldn't get into the sh*t that just happened.

[JSchmidt]

Fair enough.

Jakob

[Mohammad]

ISSAC, I am ashamed of you.

God told me he was disappointed to have created something so dispicable. He is contemplating suicide.

[Commander]

I know what i'd like to do with ISSAC

[KendokaJim]

So ISSAC RU is telling all of us to sotp insulting him for having an opinion... seems to me that the terrorists are attacking innoncents for having an opinion that differs from their own. Sucks to be on the receiving end (on a much, much, smaller, incomparable scale), eh ISSAC? My condolences to all the Londoners here.

[James]

This is very soon after tragic events and I think some wires are getting crossed here.

It is not my place to speak on behalf of anyone, but It seems obvious to me that Meng is not 'justifying' attacks but saying that there is cause and effect (which should be self-evident).
The media (any country's media / religious leaders) like to talk about these acts in terms of 'EVIL' and 'TERROR' side-stepping attempts to analyse the causes. It is easy to talk like this, but it is naive.
The results may seem random mayhem, but a failure to try to understand, or a willingness to ignore the causes of atrocities, does not solve anything.
--
Here's an example of cause and effect:

First some Violence/Evil/Terror

EFFECT: "Rosa had her bre*sts cut off. Then they cut into her chest and took out her heart. The men had their arms broken, their test*cles cut off and their eyes poked out. They were killed by slitting their throats and pulling the tongue out through the slit."

Not what you want in your village, right?
An eyewitness record of a raid in Jintega province Nicaragua.

Were they 'Evil Terrorists?'
Well if you were having your breasts cut off probably.

or Good Guys?
Yes to the President of the 'Free World' who funded the 'Contra Freedom Fighters'
(despite Congress having passed a set of laws making it a crime to give aid to the Contras).

IF it was outlawed where did Reagan get the money?
In spite of a weapons embargo, Reagan authorised illegal arms sales to Iran, a country he had himself declared to be a "terrorist state."

CAUSE: Why did he do this? To attempt 'Regime Change' of another country (from Communism in this case).
--
Believe me this isn't an anti-American rant, it is just that US foreign policy leaves such a trail of easy examples.
We could as easily join the countless debates on what changed the highly-ordered Japanese army to embark on a month-long frenzy of rape, torture and mutilation once they reached Nanking. Or why British 12yr old boys carry Cricket bats and Rawandan 12 year old boys carry AK47s.

Historically it seems humans can quickly be goaded to commit atrocities, whether they are doing it, for religious, political, ideological or basic psychological reasoning, like revenge.
It is easy to say the perpetrators are doing this without logic because they are Evil; however to them there is a justification through a sense of in/justice or by whatever brainwashing or fanaticism they have been inculcated with.
Say you are going to your daughter's wedding and the entire wedding party is slaughtered.
What do you do? forgive and forget ? or get all Uma Thurman on the bomber's ass ?
Okay what if that bomber was a military plane of a foreign country?
Does it make it better that it wasn't a terrorist but a 'legitimate' army who later apologised for the 'mistake' ?
To the father of the corpse, that was possibly and act of 'evil'.

Although there is nothing new about wanting to strike terror into one's enemies, modern terrorism is born of the media, and the ability to get million plus viewing figures for your cause. One group's 'Terrorism' is another's 'Shock and Awe Tactics'.

Saying there is no logic to terrorism, is not logical. The vicitms can be random but it is orchestrated for very specific effects, usually in direct response to the foreign policy of the target. Is terrorism really escalating for no reason? If it is random acts of hatred, then why doesn't Switzerland get bombed and when was the last bloody Buddhist uprising?

In London, remember, we have lived through years of terrorism before 911, this has waxed and waned through changes in foreign policy, military intervention, negotiation. There may be little chance of stopping an isolated terrorist cell with a secret target; but there is hope of analysing and tackling the causes.

I am more than saddened that these events are back in London. Let us hope our leaders everywhere don't squander the long-term progress we have made for short-term political goals.

[Wes Nazo]

All cultures are beautiful and we cannot judge. ;)

[Alex]

KW extends our heartfelt commiserations to all in London.

[Kaoru]

Is it the Terrorists?
Who is the true barbarian behind all of these horrible tragdies?
Who is the one plant this terrorism seed?
Who is the one invade other country thru a violent war?
How can those who is brutally killing the innocent lives of the
others condemn this tragdy?
Who has the right to give the meaning of '' Terrorism'' when they
are acting in such way?
The deaths of the innocent men and women in this tradgy should
be remembered, but this doesn't mean their lives are more important
than the others across the world.
If we must condemn , We must Condemn the true masterminded
terrorist behind all of these killings.

Issac, I am so disgusted with you, that I casn't think of anything to say to you, other than "Shut Up." Nothing that I can say can express what I think of you. (And none of it is nice, unfortunately.) This was so tactless and unkind, it's not even funny.

How can you be so unfeeling and so mean? If the only thing you know how to do is say nasty things, why should you be allowed to stay on this forum? I think there needs to be a stronger moderator presence, and stronger rules for what can be posted. This post and thread is just beyond nasty.

Anyway, I think you are terrible Issac, for posting such horrid thoughts. You should be ashamed of yourself. You should be profusely apologising to everyone here for your callous words. What happened in London is a horrible tragedy. Your words are beyond cruel.

Kaoru

[Alex]

This is the Flames section, Kaoru. If you don't like it, don't come here. The reason why we set this section up is to keep rubbish out of the serious forums, and that is why we don't keep a strong presence here. As far as I can see, ISAAC has expressed an unpopular and grossly inappropriate opinion, but should he be banned for that in this section?

[Gregory]

yes he should, one day he will piss off the wrong person.

I know I am new here and have no right to give my 2 cents but this guy is a prick and should be dealt with as such. One way or another he will get what he deserves.

[drizzt]

This is the Flames section, Kaoru. If you don't like it, don't come here. The reason why we set this section up is to keep rubbish out of the serious forums, and that is why we don't keep a strong presence here. As far as I can see, ISAAC has expressed an unpopular and grossly inappropriate opinion, but should he be banned for that in this section?

I think a temporary ban might be apropriate. Malicious trolling(not the stupid stuff that "God" "jesus""satan" and all the others do....thats done in jest,his is done to be nasty.) should come with at least a temp ban.

[piggy]

i would let it slide if this was his first post but unfortunately, he always posts such negativity regardless of the feedback that he gets from other members. in my oppinion, i think he does it because he feels that he needs the attention so desperately that he needs to say horrid and terrible things so that we will give him the attention he wants. so yes, i think a temporary ban would be appropiate in this case.




This is the Flames section, Kaoru. If you don't like it, don't come here. The reason why we set this section up is to keep rubbish out of the serious forums, and that is why we don't keep a strong presence here. As far as I can see, ISAAC has expressed an unpopular and grossly inappropriate opinion, but should he be banned for that in this section?

[Kaoru]

This is the Flames section, Kaoru. If you don't like it, don't come here. The reason why we set this section up is to keep rubbish out of the serious forums, and that is why we don't keep a strong presence here. As far as I can see, ISAAC has expressed an unpopular and grossly inappropriate opinion, but should he be banned for that in this section?

Hi Alex-san,

I know this is the Flames section, and I do know what it is for. This is not about what I do or don't like. This is about the fact that Isaac has been VERY hurtful and unkind in regard to the London attacks. Also, Isaac never has anything nice to say about anything, and he says mean things that are totally uncalled for and unprovoked, to people all the time. I haven't complained about him yet because I kept hoping that he'd turn into a nice person after settling in here, but he has not. This was the last straw for me. He should not be rewarded for saying nasty things. He is rewarded when we put up with him and allow him to continue.

The Flames section is not, IMHO, to be used to abuse people or, to say things that are very hurtful to others. This post, IMHO, was out of line. London was just bombed. Why should he be allowed to say what he did when people have just been traumatised by this attack? Many here live and/or work in London, or have friends and family there, and are very affected by it. I do not like to see people needlessly hurt by insensitive comments by a kid who appears to support the people behind the bombing when a serious attack has just occurred. This is wrong.

There is a line that has been crossed, though this is the Flames section, IMHO, when Isaac posted this thread and his "opinion."

I am sorry if I have offended you, but there really is a point where something just should not be posted or tolerated.

Please accept my apology for my opinion, but I stand by what I say. Others have suggested a temporary ban. That sounds plenty fair and appropriate to me. E-budo has such a ban, and I think that fair in this case. And, if he can't clean up his act, then I'd just ban him permanently. There just is no reason for him to be so rude to everyone in nearly every post he makes.

Again, I am sorry if I offended you. That was not my intention. *bow*

Kaoru

[Kaoru]

I think a temporary ban might be apropriate. Malicious trolling(not the stupid stuff that "God" "jesus""satan" and all the others do....thats done in jest,his is done to be nasty.) should come with at least a temp ban.

I agree with you. There really is a difference between malicious and just stupid trolling. I can't tolerate the nasty sort of trolling. The other, I can deal with.
I hate it when people are out to hurt others and that sort of thing.

Kaoru

[KevinF]

Kaoru,

I was frankly disgusted by Isaac Ru's post here as well. However, it's not the first time. In fact, I'm not sure which one of his post has annoyed me the most. I'm not sure which is worse, his insensitivity to the recent bombings in London or his gross ignorance regardnig world history and the history of his own country (P.R.C.).

Ticking people off is his m.o. and this is more of the same. For a time, I believed that he was a guy who does judo or some other martial art and just wanted all the kendo-ka to waste time on his threads and over the past few months, I have grown into acceptance regarding his age, his youthful ignorance and his need for attention. (By the way, Issac, these aren't insults - these are subjective truth which are proven every time you sit in front of a keyboard). After all, Issac is the guy who wants to raze a religious site in a foreign country and wants to join the Chinese army in hopes of being able to put a stop to all the Tibetan terrorist bombers that prey on the benevolent peace that envelopes all that is China.

He shouldn't be banned from the forum. He should be spanked by his parents. Somehow, IMHO, they have failed to produce a good human.

[Gregory]

If he doesnt get banned, and is allowed to misuse the flame forum, others will too. If he isnt stopped it just sets a little spot for others

[Mohammad]

I being a prophet, believe that we need to PERMENATLY ban him. A temporary ban means he will come back and do it again.

[drizzt]

I being a prophet, believe that we need to PERMENATLY ban him. A temporary ban means he will come back and do it again.

no a temp ban might encourage him to behave and become a contirbuting member of the KWF society. i wouldnt have a problem with his views if he wasnt an insensitive annoying little prat.

[Gregory]

What can he contribute?
In his time here he hasnt contributed anything uselful. Do a search on his posts if you dont believe me

[drizzt]

What can he contribute?
In his time here he hasnt contributed anything uselful. Do a search on his posts if you dont believe me

beleive me ive seen alot of his stuff. If he realises ther are consequences to his assanine-ness, maybe he'll chill out. I'll give anyone another chance, but they need to use it properly

[h2o]

Banning him would be the stupidest thing to do.
1) It's technically hard. Most people are behind a dynamic IP, and banning a whole range might make other, non-irritating people, not being able to view the forum. If you ban the user he will probably just sign up under a different name. Repeat into absurdity.
2) It's really a form of censorship which I myself find disgusting. He has some weird believes by most peoples standards, yes, and he is being totally insensitive, yes, but he is actually allowed to have them. If he was violating some kind of law, then go ahead, but if not let him be and don't reply to his posts.
If his views are considered bad, then why not ban everyone who wrote bad things about God, or France, or ...

The best way to deal with an insensitive troll is to just ignore him. Trolls feed on attention.

And, as has already been noted by the KW-staff: If you don't like flames, then don't visit the flames forum.

[Gregory]

you know anyone that is dead because of the london bombings?

[h2o]

you know anyone that is dead because of the london bombings?
Can you please explain why that would be relevant?

[Berugijin]

Can you please explain why that would be relevant?

Backyard-syndrome. (Nobody wants a nuclear power plant in their backyard.)

If it's close to home people tend to care more. Thirty people just got killed in Iraq, I see no Iraq sympathy threads.

[litige]

I REALLY feel my violence is justified, if you want to know why, pm me, I am not going to say it here

No, please do tell openly, so people might contribute.

[Sepiraph]

Is it the Terrorists?
Who is the true barbarian behind all of these horrible tragdies?
Who is the one plant this terrorism seed?

The terrorists, in this case, are the one who planted the bombs.
The barbarian behind 'all of these horrible tragedies' are human beings.
The one who planted the seed of terrorism is known as hate.


Who is the one invade other country thru a violent war?
How can those who is brutally killing the innocent lives of the
others condemn this tragdy?
Who has the right to give the meaning of '' Terrorism'' when they
are acting in such way?

There are countless wars, no one single war has started this and no one single war will end this.
Killing of civilians and innocent lives should always be condenmed, irregardless of whom and when.
Everyone and anyone has the right to give the meaning of terrorism when innocent people are murdered for personal/political/religious reasons.


The deaths of the innocent men and women in this tradgy should
be remembered, but this doesn't mean their lives are more important
than the others across the world.
If we must condemn , We must Condemn the true masterminded
terrorist behind all of these killings.

All lives are precious, but attention is usually pay to those tragedies that hit closer to home. It is a human trait, for surely you'd mourn for your mother but not necessarily as much for a stranger from a different country.
There is no 'true' masterminded terrorist, ultimately terrorists are human beings, just often mis-guided in how they should carry out their ideals to help for a cause.

I believe I'm the only one who answered your questions, I hope you'll find what you seek.

[Mugu]

Backyard-syndrome. (Nobody wants a nuclear power plant in their backyard.)

If it's close to home people tend to care more. Thirty people just got killed in Iraq, I see no Iraq sympathy threads.

Let's just say we know things closer to home better. I can't say anything for the Iraqis because I am not there, I know how I feel right now because of where I live. Therefore, I don't know how the Iraqis feel and I can't say anything for them (yes, they feel angry and pissed off, but that's pretty much I know). Not that we don't have sympathy for them, I don't wanna say anything wrong then accuse of being ignorant later.

[Hyaku]

Isaac Ryu or whatever your name is, where ever you come from:

Have you ever been to London? Last time I checked there were around 12% of British actually living there. Mosty visitors and foreign nationals. But so saying they all live together in multicultural harmony.

Like you these terrorists did not do their homework. If this was aimed at the British community it was a mistake. All it has done is stir up conflict with people from other countries. I am not saying I agree with what has happened in Iraq. Bearing in mind the possibity of the present events happening I thought it was a bad idea going in there in first place.

But if some crazy muslim faction, even someone who's family has been killed wants retribution, this is a pathetic attempt.

[ISSAC RU]

Pfft ~

Some 40 British died and you see it everyday on the media.
If that were Iraqis most of you in here won't even care. Why?
They died because of terrorism too. American+British Terrorism.
You will say most British People don't support the War in Iraq , but
you chose Blair right? If you people really hate this PM who started
a nonsense war with the Americans. you guys should not vote for him
at all. I bet the gas in your car is from Iraq too. In a way you supported
this war like all the Americans.

Over 10,000 Iraqis have died since the American Invasion. Who give a
half flag salute to those? You people would go day after day about
War on Terror..Blah..Blah....Who is the real terrorist who started all this?
If the we should take look at the root of terrorism. We could date
back to the age of early 20 century. You guys planted this seed , now
you are just getting what you did.
Oil doesn't come free.

[Gregory]

Issac, I thought I told you this already. Why do I need to keep repeating myself?
Learn about politics before you talk politics.

You never answered my reason as to why you hate the current administration. (NOONE ELSE ANSWER) After you give your half baked answers Ill give you mine

Now until you answer this and do some research

Shut the hell up

[Hyaku]

You sound a bit demented and are ranting. You didnt read what I said. I don't live in the UK voted for no one and I said I did not agree with Iraq.

If you are going to post that talk revenge dating back to the middle ages your a troll or your talking like a terrorist. You said moocow visted your club in a previous post. Are you in The USA? I think your ip should be checked and you should watched (better still medicated). I'ts all a sad, sick state of affairs that needs to be resolved, not made worst.

Is this a Kendo forum? Where's your Kendo spirit? Seems you have not learned much up now.

I had a Professor from UEA that teaches Islam visit last year. Thank God/ Allah he does "not" share your feelings

Don't bother answering. Like the others you just went on my ignore list

[ISSAC RU]

Ha Prove me that I am wrong.Prove me now! or else you should STFU.
I am just gonna repeat this over and over again like
you americans do.

What? YOu don't want to hear about the current situation in
Iraq? Iraqis are dying and obviously you don't care because
it didn't happen to you right? Why should people around the world
care about some british people died? Why should we care about
some americans died in some trash towers? You ask people across
the world to care about you but you don't pay the same respect back
but instead you go around and hit their faces.

Tell me Why you Americans invade Iraq? WHY WHY WHY WHY ~
It proves to the world your country is based on a barbaric system
which embrases the deaths of the others.

[ISSAC RU]

Is this a Kendo forum? Where's your Kendo spirit? Seems you have not learned much up now.



Kendo and this are different. Kendo is Kendo. American Terrorism is American Terrorism . Lets not get these two mixed up.

[Mugu]

Tell me Why you Americans invade Iraq? WHY WHY WHY WHY ~

You should ask Bush, not the American people... okay, maybe the right-winged republicans... and maybe you should read some of the news or come to one of the towns and see how many signs are up to demonstrate about it...


It proves to the world your country is based on a barbaric system
which embrases the deaths of the others.

And yours not? You know you can't just say yes, you know you have people you don't like much in your country also

[Walras]

I wouldn't argue with this guy Mugu. His idiocy will prevail, regardless of our attempts at rationale arguments ^^

[Mugu]

Kendo and this are different. Kendo is Kendo. American Terrorism is American Terrorism . Lets not get these two mixed up.

I agree, but I hope you can use less offensive wordings maybe this discussion would have turned out nicer even though it is hot topic... I understand that you're angry, you can vent all you want... some of us listen and have a peaceful discussion. But come right out saying "YOU BASTARDS! YOU KILL MY PEOPLE!" is NOT a discussion, it's called an accusation. Why can't you be peaceful and being angry all the time ain't good for you... try some heavy metal to calm you down...

[Mugu]

I wouldn't argue with this guy Mugen. His idiocy will prevail, regardless of our attempts at rationale arguments ^^

mmm Minnesota... let me guess which one you were... Eric? :)

I'll let him talk... I enjoy reading his "stuff" and if I call him a idiot and walk right out, maybe I'm just as ignorant. Even Christians can't win me over to their side, you think this kid will win? :)

[Walras]

Close Aaron ^^. But Isaac is really just a schtick and is posting this stuff in jest, although it isn't very inspired :P

[Mugu]

Close Aaron ^^. But Isaac is really just a schtick and is posting this stuff in jest, although it isn't very inspired :P

Oh I got a boring job and I have all the time in the world to post stuff... I could be just as nasty as he is, but what's the fun in that and I'll lose all my energy agruging... this way, I can still kiai after this after having a little fun. My asthma won't allow me to get angry, angrier = less kiai = get yell by sensei Cochran :)

[Walras]

I didn't read the whole thread but I'm sure someone simply replied to Isaac's original query, the thread title;that the persons we should condemn are those directly responsible and any other person,group, or country that knowingly supported the action.

[Walras]

Oh I got a boring job and I have all the time in the world to post stuff... I could be just as nasty as he is, but what's the fun in that and I'll lose all my energy agruging... this way, I can still kiai after this after having a little fun. My asthma won't allow me to get angry, angrier = less kiai = get yell by sensei Cochran :)

I have oodles of time as well, I have no job ^^

[KendokaJim]

Kendo and this are different. Kendo is Kendo. American Terrorism is American Terrorism . Lets not get these two mixed up.

America may be "attacking" Muslim extremists, but it's because they are attacking innocents who have opinions that differ from their own. DO NOT cheapen the victims of terrorists' lives that were lost by saying that Iraqis lose more every day. Those Iraqis/Islamic extremists choose to fight against American, English (and various others to whom I give my utmost respect) troops. They aren't attacking civilians that have nothing to do with the conflict. It's cheap, sad, and dirty way to fight; if you caneven call it that. By the way, what are you doing to help the situation? Posting on a kendo forum. Good job.

[Mugu]

what are you doing to help the situation? Posting on a kendo forum. Good job.

I think he wants to create a Kendo army? :rolleyes: But looks like he's losing...

[Gregory]

ISSAC. ANSWER MY QUESTIONS, DONT SHUN THEM AWAY.


WHY DO YOU HATE BUSH?
ANSWER ME

WHY DO YOU HATE THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION?
ANSWER

WHY DO YOU THINK THE WAR IS BEING FOUGHT?
ANSWER


I know what your answers will be, so come on. Dont be a pussy, answer the three questions. GIVE ME REAL ANSWERS, and I will let you speak your mind without a further comment. Give answers that show you know something.

[Gregory]

America may be "attacking" Muslim extremists, but it's because they are attacking innocents who have opinions that differ from their own. DO NOT cheapen the victims of terrorists' lives that were lost by saying that Iraqis lose more every day. Those Iraqis/Islamic extremists choose to fight against American, English (and various others to whom I give my utmost respect) troops. They aren't attacking civilians that have nothing to do with the conflict. It's cheap, sad, and dirty way to fight; if you caneven call it that. By the way, what are you doing to help the situation? Posting on a kendo forum. Good job.


This is where I have to step in.

We ARE killing innocent people in Iraq and Afganistan. We bombed a wedding, killed people with our shock and awe, droped bombs on civillian homes, and killed people and put people in comas by dropping crates with guns for OUR troops on their heads.

Would YOU like to answer my questions that I gave to Issac?
PM them to me. I want issac to come up with them on his own

[drizzt]

sok, he woint even pretend to answer me so :)

[Berugijin]

ISSAC. ANSWER MY QUESTIONS, DONT SHUN THEM AWAY.


WHY DO YOU HATE BUSH?
ANSWER ME

WHY DO YOU HATE THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION?
ANSWER

WHY DO YOU THINK THE WAR IS BEING FOUGHT?
ANSWER


I know what your answers will be, so come on. Dont be a pussy, answer the three questions. GIVE ME REAL ANSWERS, and I will let you speak your mind without a further comment. Give answers that show you know something.

Easy breezy.

1) Because he's a pathetic excuse for a human being. I don't consider him a human being. He's one of the few examples where we should just skip the whole legal system and shoot him on sight.

2) They represent the American people. More than half of them obviously agreed with the Bush Administration and everything it stands for. They are a bunch of dirty capitalists with blood on their hands. Your fellow countrymen are dying so the board members of Halliburton can build another mansion.

3) Money and oil.

[KendokaJim]

I'm not sure why you want me to answer the questions you posed to Issac. I'm a supporter of the Bush administration.... and I know why the war is being fought: it's trying to prevent things like this from happening in the future. Yes, I understand that it may be a losing battle, but does that mean that it should not be fought?

I'll admit I'm a bit confused here, Gregory. I'm not sure where you're going with this regarding my post.

[Berugijin]

I'm not sure why you want me to answer the questions you posed to Issac. I'm a supporter of the Bush administration.... and I know why the war is being fought: it's trying to prevent things like this from happening in the future. Yes, I understand that it may be a losing battle, but does that mean that it should not be fought?

I'll admit I'm a bit confused here, Gregory. I'm not sure where you're going with this regarding my post.

Wow. Did you know that Iraq has absolutely nothing to do with what happened on 9/11? Do you ever stop and think "hmm why are we there again?" or "when will we finally see some WMD evidence"?

[Anjin-san]

Yeah! Go team! Lets debate some more!

[KendokaJim]

Wow. Did you know that Iraq has absolutely nothing to do with what happened on 9/11? Do you ever stop and think "hmm why are we there again?" or "when will we finally see some WMD evidence"?

Yes, actually I was aware of that fact. I am under no misconceptions as to why the US is in Iraq right now. I'm sure you're all thinking oil, oil, oil. But you'd be mistaken, as the average gas price is $3.21 a gallon here... it's gone nowhere but up since the war started. It's really convenient when villifying Bush to forget that Hussein was committing genocide in Iraq, isn't it?

You're not saying anything I haven't heard before.

Regardless of all this, someone is being disrespectful of lives that have been lost in London. That's disgusting.

[Berugijin]

Yes, actually I was aware of that fact. I am under no misconceptions as to why the US is in Iraq right now. I'm sure you're all thinking oil, oil, oil. But you'd be mistaken, as the average gas price is $3.21 a gallon here... it's gone nowhere but up since the war started. It's really convenient when villifying Bush to forget that Hussein was committing genocide in Iraq, isn't it?

You're not saying anything I haven't heard before.

Regardless of all this, someone is being disrespectful of lives that have been lost in London. That's disgusting.

But you still don't get the point, do you? Your goverment has LIED to you. Now they're just brushing it off saying "oh but Saddam was a naughty man so it's okay".

It's also really convenient to forget that your goverment used the excuse of terrorism to turn the USA into a police state: PATRIOT act, dep of homeland security, arresting people indefinately without charging them of anything, censoring the media, ...

Land of the free?My shiny metal ass indeed.

[drizzt]

But you still don't get the point, do you? Your goverment has LIED to you. Now they're just brushing it off saying "oh but Saddam was a naughty man so it's okay".
\


No saddam hussein was a war criminal, and guilty of human rights violations. If the dictator of the country you were living in was gassing your relatives, and he was overthrow, you wouldnt be bitching would you?

[Gregory]

Easy breezy.

1) Because he's a pathetic excuse for a human being. I don't consider him a human being. He's one of the few examples where we should just skip the whole legal system and shoot him on sight.

2) They represent the American people. More than half of them obviously agreed with the Bush Administration and everything it stands for. They are a bunch of dirty capitalists with blood on their hands. Your fellow countrymen are dying so the board members of Halliburton can build another mansion.

3) Money and oil.



Those are the common answers. You my friend are a media whore. Another democrat who makes democrats seem like uneducated parrots who spread their ideas like a virus. When Issac gives his answers (Ill bring the popcorn) then Ill give you my little speech on why I dispise him.

You dont hate someone because they are idiots, you just call them idiots

[rainmaker]

Alas... I have to blame your mom for your stupidity. Yes, I am Korean. Yes, my name is Sungmin Ro. In Chinese, it is 魯 聖 民. My ancestor was Chinese but I was born in Korea. I have Canadian cistizenship. But living in USA due to my work. Too complicated for you ? Well, I don't expect, you wouldn't understand what I have just wrote here...

I am trying to avoid you because you are studpid, not bacause I have done something wrong. Your joke is not even funny. Nobody understand your logic because it doesn't make sense. And finally, you are ignorant......

My 6 year old son is smarter than you....




Is this all you can do ?
Where is your big moral standing ground huh?
Ha , comeo on. Show me all you got ~
What a loser you are. If you don't agree with me show me some points !~
Because you done something wrong you just want to avoid and stop it ?
Is this your way of living on the planet?
Put yourself in a hole of misery and can't even debt properly with a 16 year old?
Its like we play a chess game and once you lose you just stand up mess the
chessboard and start yelling like a crazy nutball.
Oh , I am sorry mister. I didn't you are just that retarded.
--Dailing-----~~~~911
A: Hi doctor , there is a crazy nutball running around on the street.
D: He is a korean and kindda of retarteded with a last name of Ro?
A: Yep.
D: Thats him , Sorry for the bother. He escaped our hosiptal about
2 days ago. Thank you for reminding me , we will come up here and pick
him up shortly.


If you want to avoid this problem , go ahead.
This kind of attacks will continue go on in the future if you don't
face it today.

[Andou]

...Wtf...Aside from all of the weird branching out this thread has done, I'm going to have to say that there are a few things that stand out to me. Of course, one being that issac's arguments are just a bunch of angry words miraculously put together to form a barely coherent argument and the "media whore" comment. I'm going to have to say this is a little off. If Berugijin was a media whore, many of the views he expressed would be consistent with what I could see on television. (Aside from known bias stations). However, for the sake of conversation and before I form some sort of one-sided opinion on you, Gregory, I'd like to see your own answers for why you hate Bush, why you hate the administration and why this war is being fought.

[KendokaJim]

But you still don't get the point, do you? Your goverment has LIED to you. Now they're just brushing it off saying "oh but Saddam was a naughty man so it's okay".

It's also really convenient to forget that your goverment used the excuse of terrorism to turn the USA into a police state: PATRIOT act, dep of homeland security, arresting people indefinately without charging them of anything, censoring the media, ...

Land of the free?My shiny metal ass indeed.

Man, you must be one depressed person. Oh, where do you get your information about the US? The media? Guess that makes you a media whore, too. Like I said, I've heard this a thousand times before. It's very obvious that you hate the US. Oh hey, do you live here, by chance?

Yeah, that police state has severely inhibited my freedom. I get to go to work, do kendo, spend time with my girlfriend, travel anywhere I want, etc. Damn that Patriot Act.

[Andou]

Man, you must be one depressed person. Oh, where do you get your information about the US? The media? Guess that makes you a media whore, too. Like I said, I've heard this a thousand times before. It's very obvious that you hate the US. Oh hey, do you live here, by chance?

Yeah, that police state has severely inhibited my freedom. I get to go to work, do kendo, spend time with my girlfriend, travel anywhere I want, etc. Damn that Patriot Act.

Patriot Act doesn't necessarily constrict your freedom. From what I've read on it, most of it allows the federal and local law enforcement greater freedoms. Not so much not letting YOU do anything, but it's letting THEM do it. Things like taps, enhanced jurisdiction, court ordered warrants, etc.

[The great I AM]

One thing that I fear will happen to Britain as a result of this is the onset of "Fortress Britain". Its started in the states already, with the biometric infomation that people are being asked to provide (someone in the states please fell free to correct this, I only saw it in the news briefly over here, and there wasn't much in the paper either). Obviously there are many police searches taking place, particularly at places like Kings Cross, and its only a matter of time that I have to get the rozzers to "smell my men" before they belive its not going to blow up on the train after I "forget" it. Its lead me to think that I can probably expect this to be a permanent part of my life for the forseeable future, as well as a much more increased and visible presence on our streets. Did any NY'ers have the same thing in the prolonged future after 9/11?


Al this talk about homeland laws and patriot acts has lead me to wonder what that fool Blair and his cohorts are planning to impose upon us. I'm sure that the governments ill-fated ID card scheme is going to be pressed upon now sooner rather than leter and it will of course be an offence to walk around without carrying one of these little 300quid beauties. Dam. This attack means much more long term to Britain and the brewing "Big Brother" society that is growing around us than a little inconvinience at rush hour short term, and that is without even mentioning those that lost there lives, and those that are still waiting for news out of all of this.

[Utotin]

Maybe England should not be so tolerant anymore. Maybe its time to start keeping an eye on some of those firebrand militant anti-western Imams over there in Londonistan.

[Berugijin]

Man, you must be one depressed person. Oh, where do you get your information about the US? The media? Guess that makes you a media whore, too. Like I said, I've heard this a thousand times before. It's very obvious that you hate the US. Oh hey, do you live here, by chance?

Yeah, that police state has severely inhibited my freedom. I get to go to work, do kendo, spend time with my girlfriend, travel anywhere I want, etc. Damn that Patriot Act.

Typical ignorance. I get my information from Belgian media, BBC, Al Jazeera and CNN (descending order of trustworthiness), so my viewpoint is pretty un-biased.

Funny how everytime someone criticizes the US, the common reply is: "Why do you hate America? Why do you hate our freedom?".

Travel anywhere you want? Remember the days when the Americans made jokes about Soviet Russia: "Papieren, bitte!". Guess what's happening at your airports right now?

The draconian laws aren't affecting you... yet. You just eat burgers and watch Bill O'Reilly.

I wouldn't be surprised when I hear the Chinese goverment say "America is being run by dictators, we must free the American people!".

[Utotin]

Europe is getting overrun by angry muslims who want the world to be governed by sharia and will aparently stop at nothing to acheve that goal. Yeah one day soon the french will be begging to be our freinds when we have to bail them out AGAIN!!!

Looks like my prediction in the "Why do people hate Americans" thread has almost come to fruition.

[Gregory]

Typical ignorance. I get my information from Belgian media, BBC, Al Jazeera and CNN (descending order of trustworthiness), so my viewpoint is pretty un-biased.

.



CNN is up there with fox on the "conservitave media" spectrum

Conservative news network.

And Kendoka needs to do research, he is the reactionary version of Issac.

[Berugijin]

CNN is up there with fox on the "conservitave media" spectrum

Conservative news network.

And Kendoka needs to do research, he is the reactionary version of Issac.

Then what channel do you suggest? I've heard figures that most of the american media is controlled by one or two corporations...

[Charuzu]

Then what channel do you suggest? I've heard figures that most of the american media is controlled by one or two corporations...

The Daily Show..... lol (Just lidding, not too good for news but very funny)

By the way ISSAC in short are you saying that one group of prople deserve to die and others dont? Hasnt anyone seen the live action movie 'cassheren'. The whole point of that movie was to say that killing just leads to more killing.

Hope I didn't say anything stupid on my part. If I did sorry.

[Paikea]

Patriot Act doesn't necessarily constrict your freedom. From what I've read on it, most of it allows the federal and local law enforcement greater freedoms. Not so much not letting YOU do anything, but it's letting THEM do it. Things like taps, enhanced jurisdiction, court ordered warrants, etc.Andou,

When law enforcement no longer has to abide by a strict interpretation of your rights - that's where your freedom is restricted. If what you say, write or read may be loosely interpreted to mean you might have "terrorist" leanings, then you become a target, subject to relaxed standards of search and seizure, privacy, arbitrary detention, extraordinary rendition, etc. Probable cause is degraded to simple suspicion. Next, innuendo and hearsay become good enough, and we're jailing people we don't like - because we think, maybe, they're involved with the bad guys.

In my neighborhood, they did exactly that to Brandon Mayfield, a local lawyer who happened to have represented another terror suspect in a child custody case - that, and he's a converted Muslim. His fingerprint was supposedly found at the scene of the Madrid bombing, he was locked away for a couple months while the FBI figured out that they had the wrong guy. Godd guy/bad guy, I don't know. I do know he was jailed on extrordinarily flimsy evidence and kept there while law enforcement desperately tried to find more - and failed.

Gibbo's fears of Big Brother are well founded, and a very real danger throughout western society these days.

[KendokaJim]

Typical ignorance. I get my information from Belgian media, BBC, Al Jazeera and CNN (descending order of trustworthiness), so my viewpoint is pretty un-biased.

Funny how everytime someone criticizes the US, the common reply is: "Why do you hate America? Why do you hate our freedom?".

Travel anywhere you want? Remember the days when the Americans made jokes about Soviet Russia: "Papieren, bitte!". Guess what's happening at your airports right now?

The draconian laws aren't affecting you... yet. You just eat burgers and watch Bill O'Reilly.

I wouldn't be surprised when I hear the Chinese goverment say "America is being run by dictators, we must free the American people!".

You know what? I'll deal with a little extra time at the airport in exchange for somone not highjacking the plane I'm on. I'm sure Al Jazeera is extremely un-biased information. BBC is pretty credible. I can't comment on Belgian media, but if the general opinion in your country is in line with your own, then I'd say they are biased, too. There are conservative and liberal media. They report opposite viewpoints all the time, depending on their target audience.

By the way, when did we start with the generalizing and the insults?

[Ninjujinkaku]

Violence is a circle and condemning people will not do any good to stop the circle. A country with true understanding would move along and do its best efforts to stop these things from happening again but still stay honorable and not go into some sort of hatefull rage and attack someone else.

[Andou]

Andou,

When law enforcement no longer has to abide by a strict interpretation of your rights - that's where your freedom is restricted. If what you say, write or read may be loosely interpreted to mean you might have "terrorist" leanings, then you become a target, subject to relaxed standards of search and seizure, privacy, arbitrary detention, extraordinary rendition, etc. Probable cause is degraded to simple suspicion. Next, innuendo and hearsay become good enough, and we're jailing people we don't like - because we think, maybe, they're involved with the bad guys.

In my neighborhood, they did exactly that to Brandon Mayfield, a local lawyer who happened to have represented another terror suspect in a child custody case - that, and he's a converted Muslim. His fingerprint was supposedly found at the scene of the Madrid bombing, he was locked away for a couple months while the FBI figured out that they had the wrong guy. Godd guy/bad guy, I don't know. I do know he was jailed on extrordinarily flimsy evidence and kept there while law enforcement desperately tried to find more - and failed.

Gibbo's fears of Big Brother are well founded, and a very real danger throughout western society these days.

Yeah. I seriously and truly agree with what you're saying. My final English Essay was about the Patriot Act and all of the "justifications" that are now put into play. I don't want you all to get the wrong idea...look at my profile favorite quote. I bolded your first sentence since I think that's what makes the biggest impact on the argument. Yes, this is honestly true. What I was trying to say, though, is that it's not as though you can't go out and do ______ because of the Patriot Act, but yes...the repercussions for being _____ or doing ______ can be grossly exaggerated because of this Act. Hopefully that can clarify some things...Mainly what I'm trying to say is that you can still do what you could do before 9/11 but now, people will be watching and possibly act on the slightest action.

[The great I AM]

But the tolerance that you speak of (which we simply call "living together") is a part of London life. In fact without it I for instance wouldn't have met the woman I am marrying in 3 and a half weeks, because she would not have been allowed here. This, I don't think, is the issue.

Edit: Sorry, forgot to quote someone here!

[KhawMengLee]

In fact without it I for instance wouldn't have met the woman I am marrying in 3 and a half weeks, because she would not have been allowed here.

Congratulations!!! Does this mean that on your stag nite, George gets revenge for your evil deed in Edinburg? Hahaha...butt naked Gibbo running down Leicester Sq...scary stuff indeed.

[The great I AM]

Congratulations!!! Does this mean that on your stag nite, George gets revenge for your evil deed in Edinburg? Hahaha...butt naked Gibbo running down Leicester Sq...scary stuff indeed.

Cheers, but George is still running around with the unshod monkey children of the seto inland sea....nowhere near my stag unfortunately!

One of my kohai who is coming on my stag though said that I would be "Purple" by the end of it....I'm not quite sure what he meant....

[KhawMengLee]

One of my kohai who is coming on my stag though said that I would be "Purple" by the end of it....I'm not quite sure what he meant....

One assumes...nay...hopes he means as a result of drinking.

[h2o]

There are conservative and liberal media. They report opposite viewpoints all the time, depending on their target audience.
Actually, that would be totally up to the country in question. At least our media is not easy to put into a "conservative" or "liberal" corner. Newspapers, yes, since they often state their political view, TV-channels, no.
We have, on the other hand seven parties represented in the parliament, so it is not always as easy as left<->right, liberal<->conservative.

[Paikea]

Mainly what I'm trying to say is that you can still do what you could do before 9/11 but now, people will be watching and possibly act on the slightest action.Exactly. Little by little we've moved toward "neighborhood defense committies" like they have in Cuba and (dare I say it?) the PRC where everyone is watched, all the time.

[Utotin]

Exactly. Little by little we've moved toward "neighborhood defense committies" like they have in Cuba and (dare I say it?) the PRC where everyone is watched, all the time.

Thats not true. First of all the majority of americans are to worried about being called racist. Second of all those who don't care would would just be denounced as racist & probably not taken too serious. FInally most of us Americans are a little too lazy and self absorbed to bother.

[Utotin]

But the tolerance that you speak of (which we simply call "living together") is a part of London life. In fact without it I for instance wouldn't have met the woman I am marrying in 3 and a half weeks, because she would not have been allowed here. This, I don't think, is the issue.

Edit: Sorry, forgot to quote someone here!

Center of the Jihadist World: They call it “Londonistan” for a reason. (http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/katz_kern200507110810.asp)

[ISSAC RU]

London Bombing is done by British.

[Andou]

Go! Go! Iirs!

[Utotin]

Good for Blair!!


Blair acts on radical Muslims
By James Blitz, Cathy Newman and Jimmy Burns
Published: July 13 2005 19:11 | Last updated: July 13 2005 21:17
http://news.ft.com/c.gif
Tony Blair on Wednesday promised urgent action to exclude or deport radical Muslim clerics who "incite and instigate" acts of terrorism in response to last week's London bomb attacks.
He encouraged Britain's religious leaders to stand up to "the poisonous and perverted interpetration of the religion of Islam" shown by the terrorists.

[Utotin]

Good for Blair!!


Blair acts on radical Muslims
By James Blitz, Cathy Newman and Jimmy Burns
Published: July 13 2005 19:11 | Last updated: July 13 2005 21:17
http://news.ft.com/c.gif
Tony Blair on Wednesday promised urgent action to exclude or deport radical Muslim clerics who "incite and instigate" acts of terrorism in response to last week's London bomb attacks.
He encouraged Britain's religious leaders to stand up to "the poisonous and perverted interpetration of the religion of Islam" shown by the terrorists.

The full article is here (http://news.ft.com/cms/s/c191971a-f3c7-11d9-af32-00000e2511c8.html).

[The great I AM]

Silence is golden!

Aaaahh, peace at last!

[Lucien]

Well, I am going to be visiting Vancouver this summer for holidays and kendo training. I'll keep an eye out for any 16 year olds called Issac. Can't be too many of those around....

A Londoner

[The great I AM]

Well, I am going to be visiting Vancouver this summer for holidays and kendo training. I'll keep an eye out for any 16 year olds called Issac. Can't be too many of those around....

A Londoner

Do me a favour, just before you set about him, ink my name backwards onto your knuckles so that when he inspects the damage in the mirror he gets a big hello from me!

[Theodore]

Just so Isaac doesn't continue in his delusion that we do not care about the deaths of Muslims at the hands of terrorists I would remind all of you of this massacre of the innocents (http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/25953.htm) at their hands (requires registration) which is also an abomination. We mourn the deaths of all innocents killed.

[The great I AM]

Just so Isaac doesn't continue in his delusion that we do not care about the deaths of Muslims at the hands of terrorists I would remind all of you of this massacre of the innocents (http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/25953.htm) at their hands (requires registration) which is also an abomination. We mourn the deaths of all innocents killed.

I'm not going to register to that so I can't read it, and if this is a duplicate I apologise, but do we think Issac is going to try and tell the world (someone tell me if he already mentioned it, hes on my ignore list so I can't read his crap...) about the suicide bombers in iraq yesterday who killed 26 people, most of whom were children, and do we think that he'll mention the fact that the invading american infidels were commiting the heinous crime of giving those kids some sweets, for which they died?

It may not get as much press as an attack on home soil, but it does still recive some air time over here, despite all the time still being given to the London incidents.

How does Issac feel about this one guys? Do we all think he'll mention this in his praise for the terrorists, because they are essentially working towards the same end (the war on the west).

However I don't expect him to post anything about this because its got nothing to do with westerners being killed in their own country. Funny how he never mentions the suicide bombings in Iraq. They kill more people than the London bombings, but he never gets all fiery about those deaths does he?

[Gregory]

Well, Im in Montreal for a few weeks, Ill make a pit stop at vancouver and beat the living shit out of him if you guys want. Even if you dont Ill do it anyway ;)

[ISSAC RU]

Come on White boy ~
I am ready for you at Zosokan and VKC everyweek.
Some Ji-keiko will wake ur American Whoopy ass up.

Oh Btw . I sent u a PM about how to make a stop at our places.

[ISSAC RU]

you can talk big , but can you walk tall ?
I dare you to come ~ I dare you...

[drizzt]

Come on White boy ~
I am ready for you at Zosokan and VKC everyweek.
Some Ji-keiko will wake ur American Whoopy ass up.

Oh Btw . I sent u a PM about how to make a stop at our places.

isaac i dont thnk he was infering using a kendo stick in a match.....a baseball bat would be so much more fun....

[eXact]

Come on White boy ~
I am ready for you at Zosokan and VKC everyweek.
Some Ji-keiko will wake ur American Whoopy ass up.



you can talk big , but can you walk tall ?
I dare you to come ~ I dare you...

...he's probably too pussy to even go...i bet he wont show up..what a pussy...later he's probably gonna make up some lame ass excuse
PUSSY!!!

[kendo-boi]

Hahaha..Issac
nice! nice! but i bet no one would show?

[KhawMengLee]

Come on guys...threats over a forum? What's the point?

For those threatening to whoop ISACC...guys, that's a direct violation of forum rules. A threat of physical harm for words he has posted...that is bringing yourself down to a low low level...If you don't like what he says, then do what Gibbo did and put him on the ignore list.

And as for ISSAC. Grow up!

[rainmaker]

Now he is an racist too... All white boy is your enemy now ??



Come on White boy ~
I am ready for you at Zosokan and VKC everyweek.
Some Ji-keiko will wake ur American Whoopy ass up.

Oh Btw . I sent u a PM about how to make a stop at our places.

[Hisham]

This thread has gone farther than flaming.

[stephanie dee]

Whats this?
When someone in Britain died we should be feel sorry for them ,but
when Iraqis died they are just being punished for terrorism?
British are people and Iraqis are not?
You can feel the pain and others around the world can not ?

What the hell are you on? If your head wasn't stuck so far up your arse you would notice the whole deal on the Iraqi war. Most English people were and are dead against that war, hence the sensitivity of this subject in relation to what you are saying. Don't you dare go ranting on about how the British are the only ones who feel pain when it is most of you who were dead against that war in the first place!


Huh? When AL Qualda Bombed London they are terrorist but when
they bombed Russians they are freedom fighters?
When chechnya terrorists bombed Russians and kill Russians
they are fighting for freedom and independence?
When Free-Tibet terrorists bombed Chinese they are fighting
for the Human rights?
Tell me , Does this make sense?
Those people died for nothing?
Only British people and American people can feel the pain?

You obviously do not know the history of all of those wars. You have no idea of the concept and difference of the meanings of terrisom and fighting for human rights. You insolant little boy; I may only be a year older than you, however I know more about this perticular subject than you. You have the same amount of decorum, compassion and sensitivity as a brick.

You have no right to make those kind of accusations without first knowing the history and the politics behind all of this subject. Go away, learn basic manners and the actual history of this subject, and come back and re phrase what you have said in a more compassionate way.

As for everyone else, get a goddamn grip. He is a pathetic wimp of a soul who deserves everything he gets. However, he is not worth your time and aggrevation. As for racial descrimination and abusive threats, if you can do and say those things even on a forum, then you are lowering yourself to his level.

[tattooedasshole]

Put him on ignore. I did. It's just not worth the time and effort to read his posts.

[KhawMengLee]

Put him on ignore. I did. It's just not worth the time and effort to read his posts.

Btw, Mr Tribelmarkedbumhole...are you a fan of Matt Wagner's Grendel?

[Joshua Smith]

Issac,

I joined to just take a look around here and I found this thread...

Issac, may I ask what psychotic, sadistic and twisted individual pumped these beliefs into your impressionable head?

Let me try and address the main "comments" you have made:




Respect? How many innocent arabs are being killed everyday?
Who gave them the respect they deserve?



So you're saying we should curse innocent, dead people just because others are dying as well? Is your brain so tiny that you are physically incapable to respect and mourn for *all* innocent deceased?


Huh? When AL Qualda Bombed London they are terrorist but when
they bombed Russians they are freedom fighters?
When chechnya terrorists bombed Russians and kill Russians
they are fighting for freedom and independence?
When Free-Tibet terrorists bombed Chinese they are fighting
for the Human rights?
Tell me , Does this make sense?
Those people died for nothing?
Only British people and American people can feel the pain?

"Al Qualda"???? There's a new one!!..... Issac, it seems to me that you have no knowledge or idea on what warfare is, do you? A few of the people you describe above were fighting an enemy that was already attacking them and their families. This is called "war", not terrorism, because it targets government and military officials and not civilians who have no say or position in any of it.

Terrorism is the deliberate and *cowardly* attack on *innocent civilians* who have no say or no hand in any of the conflicts around the world. To bomb innocent people for the simple pleasure of death and chaos is terrorism and terrorism is just that...terror...for no logical or ethical cause whatsoever.


Whats this?
When someone in Britain died we should be feel sorry for them ,but
when Iraqis died they are just being punished for terrorism?
British are people and Iraqis are not?
You can feel the pain and others around the world can not ?

You don't seem to even understand the war you hate so much. This is not a war *against* Iraq. It is a war being fought against people who delight in slaughtering, gassing, raping and dismembering their own people who *happen to be* in Iraq. Unfortunately, just like every other war in humanity's history, civilians can get caught in the cross-fire and everyone, who understands the war and its cause, *does* mourn them because they are the *true* people of Iraq who support our troops and actually appreciate them for trying to give back their lives free of the persecution of a mad, sadistic and evil "leader". Is that clear enough for you, Issac? Hmm?


Rude attack? look over this thread , who started the rude comment.
I started a peaceful converstaion

:laugh: :laugh: :rolleyes: Good one!!...You actually wanted to have a peaceful discussion when you *mock* the innocent who have died by the hand of people you seem to support? My God! You are a seriously disturbed and warped individual! :D


Over 10,000 Iraqis have died since the American Invasion. Who give a half flag salute to those? You people would go day after day about
War on Terror..Blah..Blah....Who is the real terrorist who started all this?
If the we should take look at the root of terrorism.

I don't call them Iraquis, I call them terrorists. Why? The terrorists in Iraq are not *true* Iraquis. I salute all the *true* Iraquis who have lived and died trying to save their country from the barbaric and homicidal insurgents and those who support the troops that die for *them* everyday. You wouldn't know what it is to truly fight for a cause if it kicked you right in the ass.


What? YOu don't want to hear about the current situation in
Iraq? Iraqis are dying and obviously you don't care because
it didn't happen to you right? Why should people around the world
care about some british people died? Why should we care about
some americans died in some trash towers? You ask people across
the world to care about you but you don't pay the same respect back
but instead you go around and hit their faces.

You are truly a sick animal. You're f*cked up life of trying to mourn for ever other human *except* the Western World paints an extremely accurate portrait of your polluted and diseased mind and soul. Yes...we should mourn for every innocent that dies in war or conflict (and we do), but why do you refuse to mourn for those who are *not* part of a war or conflict? Why do you actually *mock* innocent people who have died?

You claim we are ignoring other people dying around the world, but aren't you doing this, Issac? Hmm? You're hate for America and the Western World has blinded you from all logic and all compassion that you say *we* are lacking.

You say we place other human's lives over others? Aren't you doing this as well? Hmm? You're placing the lives of your *beloved terrorists* (who actually *deserved* their fate) over the lives of the people who have died in America and Britain. Why? What in your insane mind forces you to curse and even make fun of the killed innocent men, women and children of America and Britain?

Issac, you are nothing but a racist, delusioned, warped and disgusting individual.

You love one people and love the *deaths* of another simply because they conflict with your beliefs. You lack everything that anyone would need to take anything you have to say seriously such as compassion, logic, understanding, humanity and intelligence.

You have no idea what it is like to actually lose someone while they're simply going to work, going to school, etc. and you have no idea what it is like to lose your father, or your mother, or your son, or your daughter, or your brother, or your sister and then some jackass comes on after watching Fahrenheit 9/11 decides, to start making fun of and even enjoying their family members death. You are truly an evil person. God forbid Canada is next on the list, because as we've seen, terrorists do not discrminate. Who knows... maybe that's the kind of level it takes to lodge your head out of your ass.

You believe everything that people with your belifes tell you and you ignore the ones that actually have a valid opinion on the matter. You are so selfish and so ignorant on everything pertaining to this matter that you only concern yourself with *yourself* and laugh at everyone who has died fighting for a cause that you disagree with and one that you couldn't possibly comprehend... much less have a valid opinion about it.

I as a teenager as well, find you as nothing but a disgrace and an insult to the youth of this world and that of Canada's. You're simply a fresh minion and a fresh addition to the *cancer* that has been spreading over this world at an alarming rate composed by the same lunatics as you.

You are in my prayers, Issac, as I *truly* pity you as you are nothing but a flea of the Earth whose mind and heart is filled with nothing but corruption, hate, anger and unresloved *personal* issues.

You're simply a spolied and ignorant brat that lives his *cozy* life without ever actually accomplishing anything that will "help" his "causes".

You think you're some kind of "martyr that's fighting un uphill war against all that is evil and noone understands your kind." :( :rolleyes: (violin playing in background) ...

May God bless you, Issac. I pray He has more mercy on you than we could ever possibly muster. You are an *abomination* of His creations. God have mercy on your twisted mind and soul.

God bless,
Joshua Smith

[ISSAC RU]

What a typical American....When you can't debt with me properly you
people just call other diguesting , racist...etc.
I guess I can't talk to you people unless you learn how to talk in a Human
language , not American.

[ShinKenshi]

What a typical American....When you can't debt with me properly you
people just call other diguesting , racist...etc.
I guess I can't talk to you people unless you learn how to talk in a Human
language , not American. Then how about you tell us where you get your information. Where do you get your facts and figures from? Show us some of the information you have gathered to support your arguments. Rather than screaming your head off at every person who actually HAS credible information, or any information at all, perhaps you should respond with some concrete information that you have gathered from sources that anyone else can find. I mourn the death of every single innocent Iraqi that has died since this war began but those who kill innocent people in the name of religion, revenge, or hatered, I condemn to the farthest depths of hell. Those who spread hatered are doing nothing to help the situation. YOU are spreading hatered and are not helping the situation either. Instead of screaming your hate for Americans and the rest of the Western world, why not use a more constructive method? Ever thought of trying to convince others that suiccide bombers and other terrorists are not doing anything to help the situation? Ever thought that maybe it's because of people who spread words of hate that war persists and innocent people (of all countries involved) continue to die needlessly? How about this: ever wonder what it's like to NOT act on impulse and instead act rationaly and after you have really thought about what you want to do? Hate only brings more hate, destruction, and ultimately death.

[h2o]

Terrorism is the deliberate and *cowardly* attack on *innocent civilians* who have no say or no hand in any of the conflicts around the world. To bomb innocent people for the simple pleasure of death and chaos is terrorism and terrorism is just that...terror...for no logical or ethical cause whatsoever.
If you believe that people build bombs and blow themselves up just for fun and "hate of the free world" then you are actually more sad than Issac.
Not to plant a flame-bait, but the western world has actually been doing quite a lot of terrorism by your definition. At least, I find bombing civilians barbaric and terrorizing regardless whether it was detonated in a backpack on a subway, or dropped from a B2-bomber from 10.000 meters.

Actually, this thread is fascinating. First Issac writes something really disgusting. And then people complain just to write even more nasty shit about Issac. Am I the only one who sees a nice never-ending circle?

[Joshua Smith]

What a typical American....When you can't debt with me properly you
people just call other diguesting , racist...etc.
I guess I can't talk to you people unless you learn how to talk in a Human
language , not American.

That's your response? :D :laugh: Somebody hand this joker a dictionary! He can't speak the English language if his pitiful life depended on it.

That's pretty funny because you keep telling everyone to "answer your questions" and when I actually do, all you do is.........call me American????? That's your response???

How about you actually address what I said to you ...Oh that's right. You have that *slight* problem with the English language...

You actually think calling me a typical American is an insult?? :laugh: I should actually thank you for calline me a typical American. That's the nicest you thing you've said all day! Thanks. :)

That's pretty typical actually. You are the aggressor in this argument and you actually *try* to attemtpt to turn the tables and make us seem like we're the aggressors. As always, you constantly confirm your cowardly behavior in every comment and action you take. You lose in the argument and you call me...my nationality :laugh:...and you completely ignore someone that has answered your questions. You realized that you had lost and you had nothing more to say without looking more and *more* like a complete jackass.


London Bombing is done by British.

First off that sentence *barely* makes sense (learn English dummy) and actually you are right in a way...

The United States, Britain and all other democratic countries are beacons of hope to all countries under tyrranical and homicidal rulers.

As long as there are contries that *refuse* to "look the other way" when people are suffering under a tyrant there will always be targets for terrorists.

So in an sense it is Britrain's fault...

It's Britain's fault that they are a democratic and free society.
It's their fault that they refuse to just be *idle* when people are being killed and tortured everyday by their *own* leader.
It's their fault that they actually decided to *do* something and liberate a country that has not seen the light of freedom for *all* of its history.

Because they have these *achievements of mankind*, the terrorists are furious and *scared* because they know that their grip on the fear and terror of their *own people* is coming to an end.

Every terrorist attack now, is an attack for a blank cause. They aren't trying to free a people, they aren't trying to free a country and they aren't trying to achieve anything for the good of humanity. They simply delight in the killing of innocent people of countries that stand for everything they *do not*: freedom, liberty, and justice. This includes their own people...

The saying that sums all of this, is this: "The right decision, is never the easiest".

The decision of helping a population being held hostage by it own government *is* the right decision and it is the *ethical* and *just* decision. It wasn't an easy decision and war will never be easy regardless of the amount of honor and nobility in its cause.

It is people like you, Issac, that *enjoy* making things difficult when it is completely unwelcomed and unwarranted. You are part of the group of people that spit and mock the very people that are fighting and dying for the lives of the innocent that you say you mourn for.

Let me tell you something Issac. It's one thing to debate the war or to debate something esle....but what *you* are doing is *laughing* at dead, innocent people that have nothing to do with the war or anything esle pertaining to that matter.

Do *you* support terrorists, Issac? Better yet, are you one? Your ideals match theirs pretty well.

You're a pathtic person and one of the many idiots responsible for Canada's undeserved bad reputation. You are truly a pitiful and sad animal that deserves as much respect as the terroroists themselves.

I pray that, with age and experience, you soon realize the stupidity and ignorance that each and every one of your comments are composed of.

May God help you, Issac. You are *truly* in my prayers tonight.

God bless,
Joshua Smith

[Joshua Smith]

If you believe that people build bombs and blow themselves up just for fun and "hate of the free world" then you are actually more sad than Issac.

Oh God! There's two of 'em!

I never said fun. I said sadistic delight in killing those that fight for the end of their homicidal rule. Clear enough, pal?

Tell me then, oh knowledgable sifu, by what insane and demented cause do these animals fight for? Hmm?

:rolleyes:

God bless,
Joshua Smith

[stephanie dee]

Over 10,000 Iraqis have died since the American Invasion. Who give a half flag salute to those? You people would go day after day about
War on Terror..Blah..Blah....Who is the real terrorist who started all this?
If the we should take look at the root of terrorism.


Erm, flip the coin over Issac. Those troops and soilders who went to Iraq, those who have died by the hand of these terrorists... has the Iraqi flag been lowered in respect for them?

But then, why should it?

This is not a war on Iraqis or the middle east, Issac. It is against terrorists, and anyone who is willing to take innocent human life and destroy the things that it had taken us as a world so long to build. There are British terrorists, Irqai terrorists, US terrorists. You are only looking at this from one point of view. Do your homework before you post something like this and read up about it all, from everyone else's POV. Then go ahead and make your decisions and rash judgements.

[samurai999]

Chicken and the egg people... chicken and the egg...

Tim

[h2o]

Oh God! There's two of 'em!

Strange, last time I checked, there was only one of me. Maybe you are seeing double?



I never said fun. I said sadistic delight in killing those that fight for the end of their homicidal rule. Clear enough, pal?
You said "pleasure". And I donät think they find any particular sadistic delight in blowing themselves up. Maybe some kind of pride for their "cause", but what do I know.[/QUOTE]



Tell me then, oh knowledgable sifu, by what insane and demented cause do these animals fight for? Hmm?

Actually, If you don't can't think up one reason why people would like to attack the UK or the US, then you really should pay a lot more attention to the news. Your countries do have a quite aggressive foreign politics policy, which obviously drives people insane with madness. If it was only random freedom-hate, then how come people have not been blown up in Sweden? Perhaps because we haven't invaded anything or went to war for the last 200 years? :rolleyes:

[stephanie dee]

Chicken and the egg people... chicken and the egg...



Erm... what?

[KhawMengLee]

This is not a war on Iraqis or the middle east, Issac. It is against terrorists, and anyone who is willing to take innocent human life and destroy the things that it had taken us as a world so long to build. There are British terrorists, Irqai terrorists, US terrorists. You are only looking at this from one point of view. Do your homework before you post something like this and read up about it all, from everyone else's POV. Then go ahead and make your decisions and rash judgements.

Yes...Osama Bin Ladin was a terrorist. Since when was Saddam? Did he have WMDs?

No one made a sound with Afghanistan because it was legitimate. But by invading Iraq, you just made Al Qaida's dream...basically they don't need to fork up cash for a recruitment campaign because the USA is paying for them with that act.


Then how about you tell us where you get your information. Where do you get your facts and figures from? Show us some of the information you have gathered to support your arguments. Rather than screaming your head off at every person who actually HAS credible information, or any information at all, perhaps you should respond with some concrete information that you have gathered from sources that anyone else can find. I mourn the death of every single innocent Iraqi that has died since this war began but those who kill innocent people in the name of religion, revenge, or hatered, I condemn to the farthest depths of hell. Those who spread hatered are doing nothing to help the situation. YOU are spreading hatered and are not helping the situation either. Instead of screaming your hate for Americans and the rest of the Western world, why not use a more constructive method? Ever thought of trying to convince others that suiccide bombers and other terrorists are not doing anything to help the situation? Ever thought that maybe it's because of people who spread words of hate that war persists and innocent people (of all countries involved) continue to die needlessly? How about this: ever wonder what it's like to NOT act on impulse and instead act rationaly and after you have really thought about what you want to do? Hate only brings more hate, destruction, and ultimately death

Ironically dude, while this describes ISACC, it also describes Bush and his cronies on the War in Iraq.


That's your response? Somebody hand this joker a dictionary! He can't speak the English language if his pitiful life depended on it.

Is it a laughing point if someone can't speak English? Its pretty arrogant and petty to attack someone's argument because they can't speak English(this after all is an international forum).


The United States, Britain and all other democratic countries are beacons of hope to all countries under tyrranical and homicidal rulers.

As long as there are contries that *refuse* to "look the other way" when people are suffering under a tyrant there will always be targets for terrorists.

So in an sense it is Britrain's fault...

It's Britain's fault that they are a democratic and free society.
It's their fault that they refuse to just be *idle* when people are being killed and tortured everyday by their *own* leader.
It's their fault that they actually decided to *do* something and liberate a country that has not seen the light of freedom for *all* of its history.

Because they have these *achievements of mankind*, the terrorists are furious and *scared* because they know that their grip on the fear and terror of their *own people* is coming to an end.

Every terrorist attack now, is an attack for a blank cause. They aren't trying to free a people, they aren't trying to free a country and they aren't trying to achieve anything for the good of humanity. They simply delight in the killing of innocent people of countries that stand for everything they *do not*: freedom, liberty, and justice. This includes their own people...


Look mate, leave the freedom and democrazy crap out the door, eh? Right now you are taking the typical view that all terrorists are motiveless killers...wrong, they are very motivated by a cause. You are saying that these guys blow themselves up for no reason...how ignorant are you?

While I agree Saddam had to go, I disagree with the method. You cannot bomb a nation to get one man and at the same time think your governing system can be forced on the people because its 'better'. Take away Saddam and you leave the Shiites in power. The shiites support Iran, suddenly, Iraq becomes the next Iran. You don't like it but hey, the shiites are the majority...welcome to democrisy.

The idea was good but the plan of execution was bollocks. Revolution against tyranny must be or seen to be, from at home. The people themselves must stand up and fight...if you do it for them, you can be seen as invaders not liberators. More homework should have been done on this war...

[piggy]

Yes...Osama Bin Ladin was a terrorist. Since when was Saddam? Did he have WMDs?


actually i have to dissagree with this. Saddam may not have had wmds but he did torture and kill his own people like a terrorist would.

[Anjin-san]

Dudes, 25,000 civillian deaths in iraq...

If that is even HALF accurate then that more than makes up for 9/11. So the way I see it iraqi's aren't even free to chose who's hand they die by, saddam or the coalition.

ALL of that shit is beside the point of course. The point here is that this Joshua Smith and ISSAC RU are a match made in heaven. You two make such a cute couple! Go on, debate some more, you're all so grown up and smart! I wish I could be like you guys some day. It takes a lot of world-weariness and objective deliberation to recite the bullshit propoganda force fed to you by popular opinion and the media. You guys are awesome!

[KhawMengLee]

actually i have to dissagree with this. Saddam may not have had wmds but he did torture and kill his own people like a terrorist would.

So does Mugabe? So when is te invasion of Zimbabwe happening?

As I said in the post, yes, Saddam is a bad bad man but what happens when you remove him without any real backup plan? You think the Iraqis are living any better now than when they were under his regime?

They have less power/electricity, water, bombings on a daily basis, Al Qaida etc etc. in Iraq if

[Charuzu]

So does Mugabe? So when is te invasion of Zimbabwe happening?

Dont forget our allies like Saudi arabia. ^o^
see (http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/saudi_arabia/index.do)
see see (http://hrw.org/doc?t=mideast&c=saudia)
see see see (http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2001/nea/8296.htm)

As I said in the post, yes, Saddam is a bad bad man but what happens when you remove him without any real backup plan?

I think that the reaction to "He is a bad man who deserves to be toppled" would of gotten a diffrence then "They have a secret arsenal of WMD's".
Also, If I am correct I think we did a preemptive strike. That would make us just like the Nihonjin in Pearl Harbor (However, I must note I could be wrong so please feel free to correct me)


You think the Iraqis are living any better now than when they were under his regime?

I rember that in a TV interview a iraqi said that Things are just as bad now as under saddam. In addition as a intresting note. The guy that said that the war will pay for it's self won a Medal.... How the heck does that work???????????

[Hisham]

It seems that some people think that Saddam became a dictator just 15 years ago, wake up people, most if not all the colonized countries became dictatorships after there so called "independance" or a short time after it, why? well some people weren't going to leave those countries just like that, for example many wars in african countries had to do with foreign interests, and BTW not foreign people's interest, corporate interest like petroleum compagnies ....etc, the kind that have the budget of many third world countries put together, the kind that can pull strings in either rich or poor countries, support a low life scum in a coup against the people's choice, get somebody's kid to kill another's and get killed just to make profit, for instance the biggest winners in Nam were the weapon industries with billions of dollars profit while the families of the dead got a flag or in the vietnamese case nothing, you'll notice that i didn't put "US" before "weapon industries" because those guys have no country and they don't care about us puny mortals whether you're called John, Ahmed or whatever just prey that you won't be in there way. A third world country better not have mineral resources or be strategically placed near one (normally it should be a blessing), the thing is most "poor" countries have one or both profiles.
The faith of this world isn't decided in the UN as it should be, or any other presidential palace for that matter, Bush with all his "righteous" behavior is at the end only a puppet, and Saddam was another puppet's puppet who like Noreaga was a bit indescrete in his dealings and had to be calmed down and then erased, lol it reminds me of the mafia way of doing things.
Want to be heard nowadays create a lobby get yourself more money than your opponents lobby and voila, things will start going your way, oversimplified but you get the general idea.
Money rules our world because most people have sold there values and principles and lose themselves in the process becoming a statistic, still sometimes against all odds the human spirit prevails even in the darkest hours.
My 2 cents

[Joshua Smith]

Erm, flip the coin over Issac. Those troops and soilders who went to Iraq, those who have died by the hand of these terrorists... has the Iraqi flag been lowered in respect for them?

But then, why should it?

This is not a war on Iraqis or the middle east, Issac. It is against terrorists, and anyone who is willing to take innocent human life and destroy the things that it had taken us as a world so long to build. There are British terrorists, Irqai terrorists, US terrorists. You are only looking at this from one point of view. Do your homework before you post something like this and read up about it all, from everyone else's POV. Then go ahead and make your decisions and rash judgements.

Very well said, Stephanie! :)

God bless,
Joshua Smith

[Joshua Smith]

actually i have to dissagree with this. Saddam may not have had wmds but he did torture and kill his own people like a terrorist would.

...Took the words right out of mouth! :-)

God bless,
Joshua Smith

[h2o]

...Took the words right out of mouth! :-) One word: Abu Gharaib prison (if anyone can correct the spelling, please do) and the Guantanamo base. Good examples of the civilised western world...

[Joshua Smith]

Is it a laughing point if someone can't speak English? Its pretty arrogant and petty to attack someone's argument because they can't speak English(this after all is an international forum).


Yeah it is pretty funny when someone is trying to personally insult me and I can't even tell what language he's attempting to speak. :laugh: Very funny indeed....:laugh:



Look mate, leave the freedom and democrazy crap out the door, eh? Right now you are taking the typical view that all terrorists are motiveless killers...wrong, they are very motivated by a cause. You are saying that these guys blow themselves up for no reason...how ignorant are you?


Do you know the defintion of terrorist? How ignorant are *you*? If you actually believe that there is a logical cause behind these attacks on the free-world, then you are in the same leaking boat as Issac.

Why should we leave the doctrines of freeedom and democracy that all civilized nation follow out? Is this not one of the main causes behind acts of terrorism?

Ok...fine...I'll entertain your ludicrous notion that there is a method behind their acts of terrorism.

...Answer me this then:

1.) What have the attacks on Britain, the U.S. (9/11) and all other free countries actually accomplished?
2.) What "goal" have they supported?
3.) How is the *organized and deliberate* killing of innocent civilians considered part of a "very motivated cause"??
4.) An authentic and worthy cause is one that will serve for the better of mankind. Tell me then... Using the cause that you have concocted in your mind, do you feel it is serving for the better of mankind?

Are you actually attempting to decipher a casue and justify these acts of evil? Are you, sir?

And I'll tell you something else. Their "successes" in the U.S. and Britain were indeed *celebrated* by these "people" and they consider them achievements in their pseudo-cause. You can pretty much figure out a group's cause or goal based on what events they celebrate or acknowledge as "successes".

...Knowing this, I ask you: What is their cause?

*I'll* tell you what their cause is. They are losing their war on the free-world and they are scared and desperate. They are fighting to *gain back* their tyranny. They were nice and comfy on their thrones while their people were starving, dying of disease, and torture and they reigned "supreme" with a firm grip on the fears and lives of their own people.

God forbid we actually try to bring democracy that will overthrow these great leaders of the 20th-21st Century. :rolleyes:

It's so sad that even after people are being killed left and right for the good deeds they have done for their fellow man, that there are still people out there that attempt to defend the very murderers themselves. Congrats.

I very much look forward to your reply. :rolleyes:

God bless,
Joshua Smith

[piggy]

im not going to take sides either way but im going to have to say that the terrorists motive is revenge.
why would they even bother to attack us if they had no motive? they think that the US invasion was a direct attack on them when instead, it aimed for the more radical extremists. so with this mentality, they feel the need to make soldiers as well as citizens from thier own country suffer.
anjin-san, do you know if those 25,000 civilian deaths were caused by american soldiers, terrorists or both?

again im not taking sides. feel free to argue with my logic but not me.

[Joshua Smith]

One word: Abu Gharaib prison (if anyone can correct the spelling, please do) and the Guantanamo base. Good examples of the civilised western world...

You mentioned that at just the right time!!!

This is a joke, but I realy think it should be realized as it might breath back some logic back into the minds of some of these people that "feel sorry for murderers"

Take a look:

Dear Concerned Citizen:

Thank you for your recent letter criticizing our treatment of the Taliban and Al Qaeda detainees currently held at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The administration takes these matters seriously, and your opinion was heard loud and clear here in Washington You'll be pleased to learn that, thanks
to the concerns of citizens like you, we are creating the Terrorist Retraining

Program, to be called the "Liberals Accept Responsibility for Killers" program, or LARK for short. In accordance with the guidelines of this new program, we have decided to place one terrorist under your personal care. Your detainee has been selected and scheduled for transportation to your residence next Monday. Ali Mohammed Ahmed bin Mahmud is to be cared for pursuant to the standards you personally demanded in your letter of admonishment. We will conduct weekly inspections to ensure that your standards of care for Ahmed are commensurate with those you so strongly
recommended in your letter.

Although Ahmed is sociopathic and extremely violent, we hope that your sensitivity to what you described as his "attitudinal problem" will help him overcome this character flaw. Perhaps you are correct in describing these problems as mere cultural differences.

Your adopted terrorist is extremely proficient in hand-to-hand combat and can extinguish human life with such simple items as a pencil or nail clippers. He is also expert at making a wide variety of explosive devices from common household products, so you may wish to keep those items locked
up, unless you feel that this might offend him.

Ahmed will not wish to interact with your wife or daughters since he views females as a subhuman form of property. This is a particularly sensitive subject for him. He has been known to show violent tendencies around women who fail to comply with the dress code that he considers appropriate, but I'm sure that over time they will come to enjoy the anonymity offered by the bhurka. Just remind them that it is all part of respecting his culture and his religious beliefs.

Thanks again for your letter. We truly appreciate it when folks like you inform us of the proper way to do our job. Take good care of Ahmed and good luck!

Cordially,

Don Rumsfeld (not really :D)

If only it were true! :laugh:

God bless,
Joshua Smith

[Joshua Smith]

How strange....Issac seems to have vanished from the argument...Hmm....I wonder why...

...With his tail behind his legs no doubt...

God bless,
Joshua Smith

[Infinity]

You mentioned that at just the right time!!!

This is a joke, but I realy think it should be realized as it might breath back some logic back into the minds of some of these people that "feel sorry for murderers"

Take a look:

Dear Concerned Citizen:

Thank you for your recent letter criticizing our treatment of the Taliban and Al Qaeda detainees currently held at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The administration takes these matters seriously, and your opinion was heard loud and clear here in Washington You'll be pleased to learn that, thanks
to the concerns of citizens like you, we are creating the Terrorist Retraining

Program, to be called the "Liberals Accept Responsibility for Killers" program, or LARK for short. In accordance with the guidelines of this new program, we have decided to place one terrorist under your personal care. Your detainee has been selected and scheduled for transportation to your residence next Monday. Ali Mohammed Ahmed bin Mahmud is to be cared for pursuant to the standards you personally demanded in your letter of admonishment. We will conduct weekly inspections to ensure that your standards of care for Ahmed are commensurate with those you so strongly
recommended in your letter.

Although Ahmed is sociopathic and extremely violent, we hope that your sensitivity to what you described as his "attitudinal problem" will help him overcome this character flaw. Perhaps you are correct in describing these problems as mere cultural differences.

Your adopted terrorist is extremely proficient in hand-to-hand combat and can extinguish human life with such simple items as a pencil or nail clippers. He is also expert at making a wide variety of explosive devices from common household products, so you may wish to keep those items locked
up, unless you feel that this might offend him.

Ahmed will not wish to interact with your wife or daughters since he views females as a subhuman form of property. This is a particularly sensitive subject for him. He has been known to show violent tendencies around women who fail to comply with the dress code that he considers appropriate, but I'm sure that over time they will come to enjoy the anonymity offered by the bhurka. Just remind them that it is all part of respecting his culture and his religious beliefs.

Thanks again for your letter. We truly appreciate it when folks like you inform us of the proper way to do our job. Take good care of Ahmed and good luck!

Cordially,

Don Rumsfeld (not really :D)

If only it were true! :laugh:

God bless,
Joshua Smith

damn... that's good.
if every bleeding heart terrorist lover took one in, there would be no problem.
excellent solution.

[Joshua Smith]

damn... that's good.
if every bleeding heart terrorist lover took one in, there would be no problem.
excellent solution.

Thank you, sir!

I absolutely love this letter as well.

I'm glad you enjoyed it! :laugh:

God bless,
Joshua Smith

[piggy]

its absolutely true and so i think that the american soldiers are doing an awsome job. its much easier to sit by your computer and type slander about someone than it is to actually go out there and do thier job.

[Joshua Smith]

its absolutely true and so i think that the american soldiers are doing an awsome job. its much easier to sit by your computer and type slander about someone than it is to actually go out there and do thier job.

Very true Dominic.

I have no respect for people that live their whole lives in the cozy bean-bag chair of ignorance and then curse the people that actually get up and do something to stop the evils in this world.

Thank you, Dominic! :)

God bless,
Joshua Smith

[KhawMengLee]

Ok...fine...I'll entertain your ludicrous notion that there is a method behind their acts of terrorism.

...Answer me this then:

1.) What have the attacks on Britain, the U.S. (9/11) and all other free countries actually accomplished?
2.) What "goal" have they supported?
3.) How is the *organized and deliberate* killing of innocent civilians considered part of a "very motivated cause"??
4.) An authentic and worthy cause is one that will serve for the better of mankind. Tell me then... Using the cause that you have concocted in your mind, do you feel it is serving for the better of mankind?

Are you actually attempting to decipher a casue and justify these acts of evil? Are you, sir?

And I'll tell you something else. Their "successes" in the U.S. and Britain were indeed *celebrated* by these "people" and they consider them achievements in their pseudo-cause. You can pretty much figure out a group's cause or goal based on what events they celebrate or acknowledge as "successes".

...Knowing this, I ask you: What is their cause?


1) What has the invasion of Iraq actually accomplished? A better nation?not really. More world terror? Well, lessee....Spain, Bali, Britain, Egypt, the Mid East...cause and effect. As I said before, I don't support or justify their actions but when you deposed the Taliban, the world supported the action. It was justified. When you planned to invade Iraq, the world was against it. But you went ahead anyway...and the result, a recruitment rate that Al Qaida could only dream about. Its not what these attacks have achieved, its what Iraq has achieved.

2) Actually, they probably had the everyday hard line notion that the 'west' is evil etc etc great satan ideology. Every, accidental bombing of a civilian, mistreatment by the US, Abu Ghraib etc only works to bring more attention to their ideology that the west is evil. Not only that, Iraq is like a rallying point for these guys...before they had only ideology, freeing Iraq from 'the west' is now their twisted cause.

The Taliban were extremists. Directly linked to 9-11. The whole world, even the muslims, felt it justified when they were toppled. Iraq...that was different...waaaaay different. Iraq split the world's support and it gave those same bastards who perpetuated 9-11 a chance to gain new support.

3) The fact these terrorists blow themselves up as well, shows their resolve for their cause. To them, Iraq justifies this...Abu Ghraib, Civilian deaths by shooting and bombing...they don't look at it as 'accidents' they see it as direct attacks on their people...Its not the case of 50 virgins and paradise...

Ideology is all nice and fine when you're in comfort. Its something else when it comes to the crunch. To push someone to murder and suicide...it takes a lot. You nicely described those guys in Abu Ghraib as terrorists(not all of them are) and they deserved what they got. But you forget, to the muslim world they are still muslims. When you're entire case for invading Iraq has been reduced to human rights and then you do this...what message does it send to the people you are trying to help?

4) You seem to have gotten it into your head that a person that doesn't support your view on a subject, immediately must support the terrorists. How typically Bush, the old 'if you're not with us, you're against us'. All I pointed out is that if you don't see what motivates you're enemies, you are bound to make the same mistakes over and over.

What cause to I suggest for the world? Heck, that's for the individual or their nation to decide. I don't tell other people how to live their lives because that's a choice unto themselves. Advising people is often more accepted than telling them what to do.

************************************************** ********

[Joshua Smith]

1) What has the invasion of Iraq actually accomplished? A better nation?not really. More world terror? Well, lessee....Spain, Bali, Britain, Egypt, the Mid East...cause and effect. As I said before, I don't support or justify their actions but when you deposed the Taliban, the world supported the action. It was justified. When you planned to invade Iraq, the world was against it. But you went ahead anyway...and the result, a recruitment rate that Al Qaida could only dream about. Its not what these attacks have achieved, its what Iraq has achieved.


What has it accomplished? What *hasn't* it accomplished? It has freed a nation from the tyrannical and torturous rule that it has been in before most of us were even born.

Will it be easy? No.

Will it be a quick trip and walk out after a couple of weeks? No.

None of us will even begin to comprehend the nightmares the Iraqi people have endured for *decades* under Hussein's regime. You don't find the simple fact that one of the world's largest terrorists (yes, Saddam *is* a terrorist) that has been butchering his *own* people for decades to be testimony enough to the worthiness of the war's cause? If not, then you are about as sick as Issac.

Yes, it probably has sparked more attcks and anger against the West. But from the Iraqis? Nope. From the terrorists themselves.

These animals are seeing their "empire" crumble before their very eyes. *THAT* is what's driving them to do these insane acts of murder. *THAT* is why they are so scared and the desperateness and cowardess of their attacks express this.

So yes, it probably did cause more attacks from these animals. As I said: What's worth fighting for will never be easy.


Iraq is like a rallying point for these guys...before they had only ideology, freeing Iraq from 'the west' is now their twisted cause.


I pray that you really don't believe that the are trying to "free" Iraq, do you? *WE* are the ones trying to free Iraq. *THEY* are trying to uphold their own murderous rule over their people. What they are *truly* trying to free Iraq of is democracy and freedom. I think the answer to why they *do not* want these things shoudl be pretty damn obvious, no?

Do you actually have the ignorance and naivity to think that the terrorists are actually trying to "free" something??? C'mon, man...:rolleyes:



You nicely described those guys in Abu Ghraib as terrorists(not all of them are) and they deserved what they got. But you forget, to the muslim world they are still muslims.


I "nicely" described them? I *accurately* described them, sir. I have not a single nice word to say about the animals that are locked in the cages they deserve down in Cuba.

Your second point is *dead wrong*. *True* Muslims *do not* consider these people to be anywhere near true followers of Islam. They actually claim they are killing in the name of Islam when it is Islam itself that *forbids* this type of action under Islamic law. They are simply evil people that use their own religion as a shield to committ atrocities that actually contradicts their own beloved religion.


The fact these terrorists blow themselves up as well, shows their resolve for their cause

Yes, psychotics can be quite fanatical, indeed. I've heard of psychos ruthlessly murdering people because there were too many raisins in his Raisin Bran. The measure of his resolve was enormous, but that sure as hell doesn't make it a worthy cause now does it? :rolleyes:


All I pointed out is that if you don't see what motivates you're enemies, you are bound to make the same mistakes over and over.

If *our* enemies murder innocent people on their way to work or school, I don't give a *damn* what motivates them. I judge a person based on his actions not his words. If his actions are the fanatical butchering of innocent people solely based on their nationality (in this case, "western") I don't give a shit what happened when *it* was in 3rd grade that made *it* do this. He is simply a murderer and a terrorist that doesn't deserve the attention of any further research on *why* he murdered people. I'm not sure about you, but I have better things to do in my life that contemplate why a psycho is a psycho. Thanks...

Everyone against the war always try to throw the fact that there people who don't support the war in the faces of those that do. Well, guess what? This is not a popularity contest! We don't care if you don't believe in it or find it "necessary". We will not stand idly by while people are being killed by the dozens everyday without a soul to stop them.

I bet you *anything* that if the U.S. *did not* declare this war there will hundreds of idiots in a few years yelling on how we condoned the killing of Iraqis by Saddam Hussein. They'll also be yelling on how we ignored the killing of the Iraqis. You see where I'm getting at? It seems nowadays that no matter what decision the United Staes makes were damned if we do and damned if we don't.

...But as I said before: We really don't care because we are not in this for a popularity contest. We are here to shine the light of freedom on a country that has been in the darkness of fear and oppression for eons.

The one sentence that I will always say when some snot-nosed looney gets in my face and starts saying all the hardships that are in Iraq and why are we there, I always simply and calmly respond with this:

"The right thing to do is never the easiest thing to do"

May God bless you all.

God bless,
Joshua Smith

[KhawMengLee]

I pray that you really don't believe that the are trying to "free" Iraq, do you? *WE* are the ones trying to free Iraq. *THEY* are trying to uphold their own murderous rule over their people. What they are *truly* trying to free Iraq of is democracy and freedom. I think the answer to why they *do not* want these things shoudl be pretty damn obvious, no?

Do you actually have the ignorance and naivity to think that the terrorists are actually trying to "free" something??? C'mon, man...:rolleyes:



I never said I believed their cause, don't twist my words. But it certainly is what they believe. Read my post carefully and you'll I never showed any support for this belief.




I "nicely" described them? I *accurately* described them, sir. I have not a single nice word to say about the animals that are locked in the cages they deserve down in Cuba.



Not really. Some of the guys at Abu Ghraib were innocent or just soldiers. One of the guys in the abuse photos was released and subsequently interviewed by AP. The abuse happened indescriminately.

You may not care what motivates these people but its something you should care about. Every one of these monsters you kill only puts another in its place. You have to nip this one in the bud, and stop the source.

When you get termites, do you kill each and every one individually or do you go for the nest/queen? If you know how these guys tick, you can better stop the tools they use to recruit more people.

[Joshua Smith]

Not really. Some of the guys at Abu Ghraib were innocent or just soldiers. One of the guys in the abuse photos was released and subsequently interviewed by AP. The abuse happened indescriminately.


I suggest you read Mr. Rumsfeld's letter, pal. :wink: I would check my sources if I were for you, Khaw, and not just repeat everything the media puts out for you to see like a parrot. It's nothing but leftist media out to bash the administration and subsequently our troops (and the war itself) and when weak and immpressionable minds watch it, they latch on to it and believe it as if it were the Word of God.


You may not care what motivates these people but its something you should care about. Every one of these monsters you kill only puts another in its place. You have to nip this one in the bud, and stop the source.

Exactly. You finally understand. Unfortunately the "bud" does not lie with just *one* person or in *one* country. It is everywhere where a madman has supreme power over his people that was earned through the blood and tears of his people. There are many people that match that description, but the one that has been plaguing the middle-east for decades and one who has openly used WMD on his own people (Bio.) is none other than the man we have finally captured thanks to the sweat and blood of our troops and the *true* Iraqis that wish for their country to be an actual country and not a prison with their warden being their leader.

I will always support the war and the heroic efforts by our troops and the Iraqis.

Unfortunately it seems that people that think the way you do need to be attacked to shake the cobwebs out of your brains and force you to realize what's happening in reality and the real world, and not from the viewpoint of a computer monitor or TV screen.

I pray that you, and everyone else that voices nonsense that only slows the process and drops the morale, soon realize the errors of your ways and your beliefs.

God bless,
Joshua Smith

[h2o]

It's nothing but leftist media out to bash the administration and subsequently our troops (and the war itself) and when weak and immpressionable minds watch it, they latch on to it and believe it as if it were the Word of God.
"Leftist" is actually not a bad word. Large parts of this world is under some form of socialist rule.
And can you perhaps understand that being against a silly war has nothing to do with not "supporting your troops". I really don't care about your army more than the Iraqi or the afghani, etc... I just don't think anyone should be forced to die fighting a war that is not really neccessary.

Yes, Saddam used chemicals on "his own people", and yes, he is a sick bastard who really doesn't deserve to be out in the open. But I don't understand how the world or Iraq becomes a better place because a superpower or two invades, kills civilians and tears up the infrastructure. Face it, Iraq today is really not a happy place. Two new bombings today and a lot of people was killed, but hey, who cares: they have been "Liberated" so all is good.
But then, I've always been a fan of less bloody revolutions, since they seem to be more effective. Show me one example where "invade, remove leader, install new leader with support from the invadees" have ever worked. It worked well the last time, when you installed Saddam I mean.

[Kaoru]

"Leftist" is actually not a bad word. Large parts of this world is under some form of socialist rule.
And can you perhaps understand that being against a silly war has nothing to do with not "supporting your troops". I really don't care about your army more than the Iraqi or the afghani, etc... I just don't think anyone should be forced to die fighting a war that is not really neccessary.

Yes, Saddam used chemicals on "his own people", and yes, he is a sick bastard who really doesn't deserve to be out in the open. But I don't understand how the world or Iraq becomes a better place because a superpower or two invades, kills civilians and tears up the infrastructure. Face it, Iraq today is really not a happy place. Two new bombings today and a lot of people was killed, but hey, who cares: they have been "Liberated" so all is good.
But then, I've always been a fan of less bloody revolutions, since they seem to be more effective. Show me one example where "invade, remove leader, install new leader with support from the invadees" have ever worked. It worked well the last time, when you installed Saddam I mean.

Suicide bombers in Iraq are killing civilians right and left with their bombs. Did you know that?

Kaoru

[KhawMengLee]

I It's nothing but leftist media out to bash the administration and subsequently our troops (and the war itself) and when weak and immpressionable minds watch it, they latch on to it and believe it as if it were the Word of God.

Funny how the same thing is said for the neo-con supporters.


Exactly. You finally understand. Unfortunately the "bud" does not lie with just *one* person or in *one* country. It is everywhere where a madman has supreme power over his people that was earned through the blood and tears of his people. There are many people that match that description, but the one that has been plaguing the middle-east for decades and one who has openly used WMD on his own people (Bio.) is none other than the man we have finally captured thanks to the sweat and blood of our troops and the *true* Iraqis that wish for their country to be an actual country and not a prison with their warden being their leader.

I will always support the war and the heroic efforts by our troops and the Iraqis.

Er...Saddam was supported by the US during the Iran-Iraq war. In fact most western nations supported his use of chemical weapons as the only option because of onslaught of the Iranian Army and the support for Iran amongst the Iraqi Shiites.

Osama Bin Laden got CIA funding to fight the Russians.

Contra Rebels in Nicaragua...etc etc

Better you guys watch your foreign policy and avoid these kinds of mess altogether.



Unfortunately it seems that people that think the way you do need to be attacked to shake the cobwebs out of your brains and force you to realize what's happening in reality and the real world, and not from the viewpoint of a computer monitor or TV screen.

I pray that you, and everyone else that voices nonsense that only slows the process and drops the morale, soon realize the errors of your ways and your beliefs.

God bless,
Joshua Smith

We have been attacked before. Malaysia has a very efficient intelligence service that deals with militants and extremists. As a moderate muslim country we have had our share of extremists.

In fact, I think we get a better picture than what you get in the States, seeing as how we get news from both sides. The fact is that the US had no idea how to deal with Iraq or with Muslims. The war in Iraq places the Coalition on a balancing act of friend or foe.

You sit there and say those guys at guantanamo and abu ghraib got what they deserve...that may be. But to the muslim world, they are the poor saps who get tortured. Then Al Qaida comes along and says, "see what the infidel does." Why do you think the insurgents can still operate in Iraq? And remember its not only supporters of the Baath regime but also foreign extremists, militant shiites(under people like Al Sadar, etc.

I've watched troops searching people at checkpoints defacing the Quran. This may mean nothing to you but it speaks tons to a muslim.

As much as you disdain the enemy, you have to treat him with a better set of ethics than he does to you. Then you become the good guy not the bully/agressor.

[GoldenShinai]

I think Al Qaida just needs a hug...but I wont be the one to do it...

[KhawMengLee]

I think Al Qaida just needs a hug...but I wont be the one to do it...

You might wanna think of investing in a bomb disposal crew suit or maybe a Panzer Tank;)

[Charuzu]

Could more of you actualy cite your sources???

Their seems to be 3 types of backing on this topic:

1.) People who cite their sources
2.) Well informed people who speak truth but give no sources.
3.) People who just make up things with no logic (Your ether with us or your with the terrorists, I support the troops unlike you, Damm commi, all republicans are dum (misspelled on purpose), ect., ect.

The last reminds me of someone who I know who tells me that I deserve to be hung, shot, stabbed to death, burrend alive, ect.(I talked to some of his friends and apparently thats really his oppion:ko:) All becuse I am a non-chiristan, socalist with a gay wiccan sister. =^o^= (Where is a bokken ehen you need one?) He really is the uber-right.

PS - My republican friends... does anyone know I John Mccain will run for president next election???

[h2o]

Suicide bombers in Iraq are killing civilians right and left with their bombs. Did you know that? Yes, they were the ones I was mentioning. I know very well that you are currently not airbombing stuff in Iraq on a daily basis. What I meant was that before you "liberated" them, people weren't blown up on the streets. Yes, they might have been oppressed in other ways, but you have to realise that things not neccessary have become better.

But hey, I'm not from Iraq, so I wouldn't know, and neither would you.

[h2o]

Their seems to be 3 types of backing on this topic:

1.) People who cite their sources
2.) Well informed people who speak truth but give no sources.
3.) People who just make up things with no logic (Your ether with us or your with the terrorists, I support the troops unlike you, Damm commi, all republicans are dum (misspelled on purpose), ect., ect.

Yeah you are right. I regret to admit it, but I sort of fall under category 2 most of the time. I'll be considering it more in the future, thanks for noticing :)

[Joshua Smith]

Suicide bombers in Iraq are killing civilians right and left with their bombs. Did you know that?

Very true, Kaoru. These people claim that they are fighting for the liberation of "their people" when it is they themselves who are doing the killing of their people. Freedom fighters? Yeah right...:rolleyes:

Let's face it guys. None of us can give an accurate portayal on what really is happening over ther unless we're on the frontlines. All we hear is through the leftists media (for the majority), whether it be from like CNN, New York Times :rolleyes: , etc. All I know is that our troops are fighting and *sacrificing* their lives for a people that do not have the means or the resources to ever dream of overcoming their lives that were once drowned in fear and systematic torture.

I am also growing tired of the same comment being brought up more and more of how they have power outages and such. I don't know about you guys, but I'd prefer to have a blackout than having my family raped and dismembered in front of me...thanks...

Every nut out there that constantly protests the war supported the ludicrous notion that we could jusy waltz right on in there, shoot a few terrorists, liberate a people in the millions, and be back in time for tea...I bid you welcome to the *real world*.

People have died? Yeah, that tends to happen in war, pal. Weren't you aware of this?

It is peope like you that seek and dwell on every negative aspect of the situation..

...Have I heard anyone mention of our forces dragging Iraq out of the Stone Age and updating their archaic untility systems to those of the 21st Century?
...Have I heard anyone mention the building of new schools, hospitals, libraries, recreational centers and markets?
...Have I heard anyone mention that they were able to vote for the first time in centuries?
...Have I heard anyone mention that the majority of the Iraqis constantly support and aid our troops for which they appreciate them , as our troops, a people 1000s of miles away actually sent the world's most powerful army to free their lives of a dictatorial, homicidal and oppressive rule?
...Have I heard anyone mention that women in Iraq are no longer considered "objects" or "property" or that women are actually considered human beings now and not stoned in the middle of a soccer game?

You spend all of your days so dead-bent on finding everything wrong with the war (if anything besides the fact that it is a war) that you *completely* ignore every achievement and stride made in the people's liberation and re-establishment even if it's smeared in your face.

You do not understand what a *landmark* achievement it is for this to have been accomplished. That Iraq, a haven and mecca, for terrorism and freely practiced murder, genocide, and torture, is actually becoming the flagship of the *proven* idea that, no matter how bad it is or how bad your leader is, it *is* possible to overcome and experience the light of freedom and democracy....that all of us take for granted and is a God given right.

Are you that stubborn and that brainwashed that you try and demean the accomplishments of a nation that were earned tnrough their blood and tears and actually say that after preventing possible 1000s or miilions of lives under Hussein's rule that....it wasn't *necessary*? The saving of millions of human lives is not *necessary*?

I'll tell you something else. You call this the "invasion" of Iraq? Invasion? It is the *interceding* of a people that didn't have the slightest chance or means of ever overcoming a government that delightes in working against their own people and their lives. Invasion, huh? :rolleyes: Sure.....

Does anyone remember Hussein's darling brats son's atrocities, who were destined to prolong the agony of the Iraqi people?

Does anyobody recall that the famed Iraqi Soccer Team was actually able to *enjoy* their sport in the World Cup and the Olympics without fearing that if they lose, they will be tortured and killed as well as their families?

Will the re-establishing of the country be quick to happen? No. What do you expect of a nation that has shifted to democracy after being under the thumb of a dictatorail, murderous and savage government for centuries? Even a moneky on crack would understand that things this *historical* and *monumental* won't happen overnight.

The United States is blessed to have the neccesary resources, manpower and strength to wage war against evil on a level that the majority of other nations could only dream about. We will *never* just stand and pick our noses like other countries and *condone* the slaughter of hundrds of people on an hourly basis when it's right before our eyes. The easiest thing to do is just look the other way and say, "too bad, that's life". We have unwavering convictions and values and we put our words into actions, we don't just preach and then stop and go have lunch at a cozy bistro.

I am getting sick and tired of everyone that *does not* have the slightest clue on war or anything relating to the current situation trying to preach their crazed ideals of so-called "peace" and then attempt to demean the very people that are actually doing something to establish that very peace that you yourselves enjoy and take for granted.

Here's an eye-opener for you. You talk about cause and effect? Well take a look at one of the many effects of the war below.

I *dare* you to take your little soapbox and go and preach in Baghdad square in the face of the people below and say that the lives of millions of Iraqis, which include the lives of their sons, daughters, father, mothers, etc. (they don't discriminate) and say that after all was said and done, that the war that faught to defend and protect those very lives wasn't "necessary"....

.... Go on, pal...tell them. That's what you're saying to me isn't it? How 'bout you say it now to the people that owe their lives and the lives of their families to the so-called "invasion".....

I thank God everyday that this has happened and I thank God that there is still a country in this world of ours that still stands up for protecting and defending all of those who cannot defend themselves regardless of childish, un-founded and dellusioned criticism....and I am the proudest man on Earth to be a citizen of this very nation. May God bless us and continue to give our country and all the other that compose the coalition forces the fortitude to combat opposition on both sides and stay the course.

God bless,
Joshua Smith

WARNING!!!! The pictures below may be too *SHOCKING* for you! :eek:

[Joshua Smith]

WARNING PICTURES BELOW ARE TOO SHOCKING FOR MEDIA COVERAGE!! Viewer Discretion is advised!! :eek:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1042758/TroopsPic1.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1042758/TroopsPic11.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1042758/TroopsPic3.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1042758/TroopsPic4.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1042758/TroopsPic5.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1042758/TroopsPic9.jpg

God bless,
Joshua Smith

[Joshua Smith]

WARNING!! ADDITIONAL PHOTOS THAT MAY BE TOO SHOCKING AND GRAPHIC FOR MAINSTREAM LEFT MEDIA COVERAGE!! :eek:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1042758/TroopsPic12.jpg


http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1042758/TroopsPic13.jpg


http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1042758/TroopsPic14.jpg

God bless,
Joshua Smith

[h2o]

But come on. These photos really prove nothing. I don't think anyone has disagreed with the fact that some Iraqi like the liberation.
And no one has as far as I know denied that getting rid of Saddam is a GoodThing(tm).

That just makes it an even more interesting fact that there are Iraqi that believe they were better off with this twisted dictator, than with the "liberation"...

But to get back on topic:
Terrorists are not bombing stuff for the fun of it. They just have a very sick and violent way of expressing their political views.
And they have good reasons not to like the US, or its allies.

If they hated "freedom" in general, then why the heck attack the US or the UK? Why not Belgium, Norway, Sweden, Finland, .... etc , who are at least as much, if not even more "free" than many members of the "coalition of the willing".

[Joshua Smith]

But to get back on topic:
Terrorists are not bombing stuff for the fun of it. They just have a very sick and violent way of expressing their political views.
And they have good reasons not to like the US, or its allies.

If they hated "freedom" in general, then why the heck attack the US or the UK? Why not Belgium, Norway, Sweden, Finland, .... etc , who are at least as much, if not even more "free" than many members of the "coalition of the willing".

They have good reasons to not like the U.S. or Britain? In other words, you're again trying to justify their actionas aren't you? Good reasons?

So...they actually have a good reason to why they attack *nothing but* innocent civilians in their cowardly attcks???? Ok...sure...:rolleyes:

Why attack the U.S. and Briatin exclusively? Why *wouldn't* they want to attack the two *main* countries that have done the most crippling damage to their crumbling empire????

Once again, I'll ask you (because after all of this you still haven't answered it)...... in your mind: What is their cause and what is the so-called goal that they are trying to achieve?

...If you really can think of some insane cause on why they are doing this then how exactly has every attack on the innocent contributed to this goal conceived by the Devil?????

Please answer them and not change the subject, because I want to hear your response to the question I have been asking you since "post 1"...:wink:

God bless,
Joshua Smith

[Charuzu]

H2O, no problem ^o^

Ah, yes! On to Joshua Smith's quote:
Very true, Kaoru. These people claim that they are fighting for the liberation of "their people" when it is they themselves who are doing the killing of their people. Freedom fighters? Yeah right...:rolleyes:

People only said that thats who they think they are. I am ether missing something or you did. =_=


All we hear is through the leftists media (for the majority), whether it be from like CNN, New York Times :rolleyes: , etc.

Let me guess? FOX is the oly accret news station, right? It's not thats it is with the 'left'. Thats a bunch of bull, It's just that to make money their needs to be explosions, killings, ect. Ever see 'bowling for columbine'? (http://www.bowlingforcolumbine.com)

All I know is that our troops are fighting and *sacrificing* their lives for a people that do not have the means or the resources to ever dream of overcoming their lives that were once drowned in fear and systematic torture.

Ever wonder If we asked our people to go to war just to remove Saddam. No one is saying that saddam was a good person (http://www.gwu.edu/%7Ensarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/). What they DID say is that all of the reasons (http://www.gjsentinel.com/news/content/news/opinion/stories/2005/07/05/7_5_letters.html) we went in their (WMD (http://www.pastpeak.com/archives/2004/10/top_us_arms_ins.htm), Links to Al-Quada (http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/06/15/bush.alqaeda/))

I am also growing tired of the same comment being brought up more and more of how they have power outages and such. I don't know about you guys, but I'd prefer to have a blackout than having my family raped and dismembered in front of me...thanks...

But what is the police get overwhelmed and some evil stranger does that to you? Only now are they starting to regain power (http://www.amconmag.com/2004_03_15/feature.html).


Every nut out there that constantly protests the war supported the ludicrous notion that we could jusy waltz right on in there, shoot a few terrorists, liberate a people in the millions, and be back in time for tea...I bid you welcome to the *real world*.

Actually NO, Bush and his cohorts were the ones who said that. (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/03/27/MN291438.DTL) Heck the guy that said that the war will pay for it's self got a Medal!!!! (http://devilstower.dailykos.com/story/2005/7/14/131832/042) While the Lib's have been saying No since the start becuse they knew that this would happen
(http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_daily_show/index.jhtml)

It is peope like you that seek and dwell on every negative aspect of the situation..

...Have I heard anyone mention of our forces dragging Iraq out of the Stone Age and updating their archaic untility systems to those of the 21st Century?
...Have I heard anyone mention the building of new schools, hospitals, libraries, recreational centers and markets?
...Have I heard anyone mention that they were able to vote for the first time in centuries?
...Have I heard anyone mention that the majority of the Iraqis constantly support and aid our troops for which they appreciate them , as our troops, a people 1000s of miles away actually sent the world's most powerful army to free their lives of a dictatorial, homicidal and oppressive rule?
...Have I heard anyone mention that women in Iraq are no longer considered "objects" or "property" or that women are actually considered human beings now and not stoned in the middle of a soccer game?

You spend all of your days so dead-bent on finding everything wrong with the war (if anything besides the fact that it is a war) that you *completely* ignore every achievement and stride made in the people's liberation and re-establishment even if it's smeared in your face.

But their is so may bad things about it. While their is some good we have seen a huge 'mess-o-potaima'

You do not understand what a *landmark* achievement it is for this to have been accomplished. That Iraq, a haven and mecca, for terrorism and freely practiced murder, genocide, and torture, is actually becoming the flagship of the *proven* idea that, no matter how bad it is or how bad your leader is, it *is* possible to overcome and experience the light of freedom and democracy....that all of us take for granted and is a God given right.

But their was no al-quada link. But now since some people there spite the US Al-Quada has moved in.

Are you that stubborn and that brainwashed that you try and demean the accomplishments of a nation that were earned tnrough their blood and tears and actually say that after preventing possible 1000s or miilions of lives under Hussein's rule that....it wasn't *necessary*? The saving of millions of human lives is not *necessary*?

But that is not what you said while going to war. You reasons for their are changing monthly!

I'll tell you something else. You call this the "invasion" of Iraq? Invasion? It is the *interceding* of a people that didn't have the slightest chance or means of ever overcoming a government that delightes in working against their own people and their lives. Invasion, huh? :rolleyes: Sure....

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion) Actualy.... It WAS a invasion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion). (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion)


Will the re-establishing of the country be quick to happen? No. What do you expect of a nation that has shifted to democracy after being under the thumb of a dictatorail, murderous and savage government for centuries? Even a moneky on crack would understand that things this *historical* and *monumental* won't happen overnight.

The only guys that said this would happen were from the right. (See Roves quote)

The United States is blessed to have the neccesary resources, manpower and strength to wage war against evil on a level that the majority of other nations could only dream about. We will *never* just stand and pick our noses like other countries and *condone* the slaughter of hundrds of people on an hourly basis when it's right before our eyes. The easiest thing to do is just look the other way and say, "too bad, that's life". We have unwavering convictions and values and we put our words into actions, we don't just preach and then stop and go have lunch at a cozy bistro.

But we have! We consider the Saudi's (http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2001/nea/8296.htm) to be great allies (http://www.professorbainbridge.com/2004/06/our_saudi_allie.html) but they are just as bad or worse as Saddam (http://www.nationalreview.com/murdock/murdock080902.asp)

I am getting sick and tired of everyone that *does not* have the slightest clue on war or anything relating to the current situation trying to preach their crazed ideals of so-called "peace" and then attempt to demean the very people that are actually doing something to establish that very peace that you yourselves enjoy and take for granted.

Waht was that about not having a clue????
PS - I love and savor my rights and don't take them for granted. Especally with the Patraot act!!!! Better enjoy them while they last! ^o^

I *dare* you to take your little soapbox and go and preach in Baghdad square in the face of the people below and say that the lives of millions of Iraqis, which include the lives of their sons, daughters, father, mothers, etc. and say that after all was said and done, that the war that faught to defend and protect those very lives wasn't "necessary"....

Actually, manny have said that life now is just as bad then (http://www.defenddemocracy.org/in_the_media/in_the_media_show.htm?doc_id=229119&attrib_id=7377)

.... Go on, pal...tell them. That's what you're saying to me isn't it? How 'bout you say it now to the people that owe their lives and the lives of their families to the so-called "invasion".....

LOL, funny funny, haha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion) (Indaina jones and the temple of doom)

I thank God everyday that this has happened and I thank God that there is still a country in this world of ours that still stands up for protecting and defending all of those who cannot defend themselves regardless of childish, un-founded and dellusioned criticism....and I am the proudest man on Earth to be a citizen of this very nation. May God bless us and continue to give our country and all the other that compose the coalition forces the fortitude to combat opposition on both sides and stay the course.

Hmmmm..... I'm unfounded huh???? Where are your sources????
If I wanted to support Japanese violence during WW2 with you arugement I could. I dould show pics of the with children and talk about how they removed western influence... but it still was bad. (But US invasion forces is not nearly as bad as WW2 Japan. I'm just showing that the argument is not a valid one)

I can also see that you are christan by the sheer amounts of 'god' in your quote. And more consirvative christans tend to lean to Bush. (However, I don't meant to say that being christan is to lean to the right. Take the united church of christ (http://www.ucccoalition.org/)... I greatly support them.... they have balls.)

PS- Sorry If I pissed any one off.... these are only my oppions

[stephanie dee]

You know what? I am sick to death of this post. I check it now and again just to see what people are saying. And it is all repeated.

Just leave it now. It's a tender subject for most people. To discuss it in a polite conversation, even mild debate is acceptable. But this is going too far.

Whats done is done. I have no quarms about talking about it, even giving and listening to people's views. However, to start arguments and threats about it is just plain ridiculous. I am not saying that it should not be discussed, however, people have died and are suffering in this war. Where is the respect that everyone is going on about for these people? Posts like this are down right disrespectful.

[Charuzu]

Whats done is done. I have no quarms about talking about it, even giving and listening to people's views. However, to start arguments and threats about it is just plain ridiculous. I am not saying that it should not be discussed, however, people have died and are suffering in this war. Where is the respect that everyone is going on about for these people? Posts like this are down right disrespectful.

I never said that their wasn't suffering. I am just giving my oppion on a 'hot topic'. Besides.... this way you can see the other side's views. You may find intresting stuff that could greatly change you views if you have a open mind.



They have good reasons to not like the U.S. or Britain? In other words, you're again trying to justify their actionas aren't you? Good reasons?

So...they actually have a good reason to why they attack *nothing but* innocent civilians in their cowardly attcks???? Ok...sure...:rolleyes:

Why attack the U.S. and Briatin exclusively? Why *wouldn't* they want to attack the two *main* countries that have done the most crippling damage to their crumbling empire????

Once again, I'll ask you (because after all of this you still haven't answered it)...... in your mind: What is their cause and what is the so-called goal that they are trying to achieve?

...If you really can think of some insane cause on why they are doing this then how exactly has every attack on the innocent contributed to this goal conceived by the Devil?????

Please answer them and not change the subject, because I want to hear your response to the question I have been asking you since "post 1"...:wink:

God bless,
Joshua Smith

H2O isn't supporting them. He is just saying that people don't just kill for fun, and that their is a reason for it and we need to weed it from it's source.

Meanwhile, your taking a "Your with us or the terrost's approch.

H2O already said that "In their twisted mind" showing that he disagrees with them and ony said that they have good reason for not liking the US, nothing more. And as for their "Crumbling Empire" they are not a centralized oragnization. You cant crush a non-existant empire. So please.... don't twist peoples words. K?


(=^o^=)

[stephanie dee]

I never said that their wasn't suffering. I am just giving my oppion on a 'hot topic'. Besides.... this way you can see the other side's views. You may find intresting stuff that could greatly change you views if you have a open mind.

I wasn't aiming it at you. But at this thread in general.

[Charuzu]

I wasn't aiming it at you. But at this thread in general.

Ah! Ok... I'm a bit slow. But still... unless you talk about these things you will only see one side of the issue. By discussing you'll see the other side and most of the time you'll think just a little more diffrently of the topic.

However, We must me careful becuse patriosm can quickly turn into jingoism.

[Joshua Smith]

Tsk...Tsk...Tsk...:rolleyes: :laugh:

People, your *naivity* and ignorance to the war and all that it encompasses is astounding.

Charuzu and H2O, you're simply the pet parrots of sick people like Issac. You will never understand all that is good in the world if all you do is seek and multiply all that is bad with it.

I have nothing more to say because I am tired of hearing the same comments by different nuts and the same dellusioned people that cannot, or refuse to not, understand and comprehend the world situations.

Don't reply to this because it'll just be a waste of your time, as I will not look at this abomination of a thread anymore.

Talking to ignorant people like you is as worthless as your ideals. You will never understand and you will never listen and you'll just keep repeating youselves like broken records.

But who cares. You're nothing new. You're not some radical with fresh new ideas. Youre nothing but stale, repetitive and confused voices with nothing to say of any significance. We hear people like you all the time and we've stopped listening as we need the time to actually get things done in this world and not just preach on a soapbox.

May God bless you and may He help you come to grips with what *really* is happening in the world you hate so much and know nothing about.

May God bless you all and take care....see ya.

God bless,
Joshua Smith

[Charuzu]

Tsk...Tsk...Tsk...:rolleyes: :laugh:

People, your *naivity* and ignorance to the war and all that it encompasses is astounding.

Charuzu and H2O, you're simply the pet parrots of sick people like Issac. You will never understand all that is good in the world if all you do is seek and multiply all that is bad with it.

I have nothing more to say because I am tired of hearing the same comments by different nuts and the same dellusioned people that cannot, or refuse to not, understand and comprehend the world situations.

Don't reply to this because it'll just be a waste of your time, as I will not look at this abomination of a thread anymore.

Talking to ignorant people like you is as worthless as your ideals. You will never understand and you will never listen and you'll just keep repeating youselves like broken records.

But who cares. You're nothing new. You're not some radical with fresh new ideas. Youre nothing but stale, repetitive and confused voices with nothing to say of any significance. We hear people like you all the time and we've stopped listening as we need the time to actually get things done in this world and not just preach on a soapbox.

May God bless you and may He help you come to grips with what *really* is happening in the world you hate so much and know nothing about.

May God bless you all and take care....see ya.

God bless,
Joshua Smith

Now, now. Be Civil, No personal attacks. Also, for the last time....
CITE YOUR SOURCES!!!!!! Saying is one thing..... proving is another.

PS - NEVER call me Issac's Pet. I expect a FULL apoligy for that rude comment

[piggy]

Now, now. Be Civil, No personal attacks. Also, for the last time....
CITE YOUR SOURCES!!!!!! Saying is one thing..... proving is another.

PS - NEVER call me Issac's Pet. I expect a FULL apoligy for that rude comment



yes no personal attacks please. thats whats wrong with these flame threads.

and based on past readings, it may not be so intelligent to bring god into a thread like this. we've all heard it before and a lot of us dont care anymore but still... just dont do it.

speaking of isaac, i havent seen him in awhile..

[Charuzu]

yes no personal attacks please. thats whats wrong with these flame threads.
Their is a article on E-Budo that says that if you go to personal attacks you have lost the argument. Kinda live usenet's 'nazi' rule. ^o^

and based on past readings, it may not be so intelligent to bring god into a thread like this. we've all heard it before and a lot of us dont care anymore but still... just dont do it.
Sorry, that was my fault. Although I did also talk about a group of christans who I greatly admire.

speaking of isaac, i havent seen him in awhile.
He has probbaly peed his pants after seeing that not a single person agrees with him. If he's smart he will come back and appoligize. For example, on one of my other threads I sayed something that was widly disagreed on so I admited defeat and appoligized. (I also appoligized for all of the personal attacks, yep, I lowerd myself to that point)

[kendokamax]

For example, on one of my other threads I sayed something that was widly disagreed on so I admited defeat and appoligized. (I also appoligized for all of the personal attacks, yep, I lowerd myself to that point)


if you want a girlfriend thats a good start

[ISSAC RU]

yes no personal attacks please. thats whats wrong with these flame threads.
Their is a article on E-Budo that says that if you go to personal attacks you have lost the argument. Kinda live usenet's 'nazi' rule. ^o^

and based on past readings, it may not be so intelligent to bring god into a thread like this. we've all heard it before and a lot of us dont care anymore but still... just dont do it.
Sorry, that was my fault. Although I did also talk about a group of christans who I greatly admire.

speaking of isaac, i havent seen him in awhile.
He has probbaly peed his pants after seeing that not a single person agrees with him. If he's smart he will come back and appoligize. For example, on one of my other threads I sayed something that was widly disagreed on so I admited defeat and appoligized. (I also appoligized for all of the personal attacks, yep, I lowerd myself to that point)

Pfft~~ , Apologize for what? For speaking out the truth about
what the real world is like?
I guess its pretty hard for a American to understand what is the real
world like when he is living under his " we are the best in the world'' country
everyday.

[piggy]

yes no personal attacks please. thats whats wrong with these flame threads.
Their is a article on E-Budo that says that if you go to personal attacks you have lost the argument. Kinda live usenet's 'nazi' rule. ^o^

and based on past readings, it may not be so intelligent to bring god into a thread like this. we've all heard it before and a lot of us dont care anymore but still... just dont do it.
Sorry, that was my fault. Although I did also talk about a group of christans who I greatly admire.

speaking of isaac, i havent seen him in awhile.
He has probbaly peed his pants after seeing that not a single person agrees with him. If he's smart he will come back and appoligize. For example, on one of my other threads I sayed something that was widly disagreed on so I admited defeat and appoligized. (I also appoligized for all of the personal attacks, yep, I lowerd myself to that point)


alot of this post is true except for
If he's smart he will come back and appoligize. and i think we all know why...


anyway, when i said not to bring god into this, i was not talking about you charuzu. sorry for the miscommunication. i was talking about joshua smith.

[piggy]

You know what? I am sick to death of this post. I check it now and again just to see what people are saying. And it is all repeated.

Just leave it now. It's a tender subject for most people. To discuss it in a polite conversation, even mild debate is acceptable. But this is going too far.



this is exactly what i think but i cannot stop replying to this cursed thread and fueling the radicals. none the less im in a flames thread addiction anomous group now.

[Charuzu]

Pfft~~ , Apologize for what? For speaking out the truth about
what the real world is like?
I guess its pretty hard for a American to understand what is the real
world like when he is living under his " we are the best in the world'' country
everyday.

The US is ruled by (In my mind) a dumb-ass... Alot of people agree with me yet others don't. A governmet does bad things but it doesn't reflect everyones Ideas. What you were saying is that The prime Minister agreed with the war and that the people in the middle east are being murderd daily thus the Brits deserve to be murderd.

Their is a Islamic saying "To take one life is to take all". In Cassharen they say "Killing just leads to more killing". Can't you see that BOTH those in England and the middle east are the same! A human is a human no matter where you look! Your ideas don't add up!
If they are in the middle east and they are murrderd it is a crime but If is a citizen unde a colation rule it is fine and deserved?

The truth is that they both are wrong!
Murder is murder.
A bomb does not care who it is placed near. If even one good person has been killed it is murder!

Also, I never sayed that the US is the best in the world. Actually, I think Canada and England have more rights that those in the US. However, I love my country with all my heart. And as for the *Real World* their is a socilist saying "A better world is possible!", It means the world is what we make it... so why pass hate?? (I think that If Marx was alive today he would hunt you down and kick tour arse.... or talk to to death.... any way he would get you.)

PS- Piggy, actually I did make that mistake and I should of known better.


What are my true views.... fav. site here (http://www.socialistaction.org/) although I disagree with ALOT of what they say.

[samurai999]

actually i have to dissagree with this. Saddam may not have had wmds but he did torture and kill his own people like a terrorist would.

Well he did gas the crap out of his own ppl. I thought WMD included nerve gas/agents?

Tim

[samurai999]

The truth is that they both are wrong![size=3][size=2]
Murder is murder.
A bomb does not care who it is placed near. If even one good person has been killed it is murder!



Yes. Totally true. But the question is, if you have two hard headed school children fighting in the school yard. How do you make both of them stop and reflect without getting upset again?

But for now, since Al Qaeda doesn't seem to want to stop with the "western invasion of sacred lands", where do they want to go before they are content? Eradication of western culture? Their fanaticism seems to be headed in that direction. The point is, where is the happy medium to where both sides can be content with what they have and willing to accept the other as coexisting on this planet?

Tim

[KhawMengLee]

But for now, since Al Qaeda doesn't seem to want to stop with the "western invasion of sacred lands", where do they want to go before they are content? Eradication of western culture? Their fanaticism seems to be headed in that direction. The point is, where is the happy medium to where both sides can be content with what they have and willing to accept the other as coexisting on this planet?

Tim

If not for two factors Tim, the world would have left the middle east to rot in its sweltering, camel shit infested desert.

1) Oil. We need it, they have it. To me, the real agenda behind the war is oil, and of course Cheney and his pals raking in the cash from Iraq's oilfields. Lets face it, while human rights is a noble cause...very few times in history has it been the sole motivating factor in any conflict.

Especially where a Government is concerned.

2) The second factor is Israel. No I'm not an anti-semite but its true. America is Israel's boom stick...they get the most aid from the US aid coffers, not to mention weapons. If the US or the West pulled out of Israel...well, by the end of 2010...the mid east will be a nuke wasteland.

[h2o]

They have good reasons to not like the U.S. or Britain? In other words, you're again trying to justify their actionas aren't you? Good reasons?

No, if you had read my earlier posts you would have noticed that I explicitly wrote that I do not justify any violence at all. Neither the terrorist, nor "yours".



So...they actually have a good reason to why they attack *nothing but* innocent civilians in their cowardly attcks???? Ok...sure...:rolleyes:
Yes, it's cowardice, I agree with you, but there are on the other hand a few examples of US airstrikes that have affected only civilians as well. A mistake, surely, but it has happened.



Why attack the U.S. and Briatin exclusively? Why *wouldn't* they want to attack the two *main* countries that have done the most crippling damage to their crumbling empire????
My point exactly. You have attacked them in differnet ways, they attack you. I love it when you first tell me they have no motives or reasons, and then name them yourself :P



Once again, I'll ask you (because after all of this you still haven't answered it)...... in your mind: What is their cause and what is the so-called goal that they are trying to achieve?

I guess different terrorists have different reasons to dislike you to the extent of commiting suicide for their cause. But if you look back in history you will see quite a lot of examples where US middle-east politics have made people pissed off. Supporting Israel is one thing, assassination attempts, general "we want to choose your leader"-syndrome ... the list could be made long.



...If you really can think of some insane cause on why they are doing this then how exactly has every attack on the innocent contributed to this goal conceived by the Devil?????

Oh, in my point of view, they have achieved a lot. You are constantly in fear of new attacks. You try to win a war against an enemy who you don't know how he looks. Anti-terror laws infringe on your own beloved liberty.



Please answer them and not change the subject, because I want to hear your response to the question I have been asking you since "post 1"...:wink:

I have tried to answer, but you have obviously not been listening.


God bless
Yeah, I spoke to him earlier today. He said war is bad and that you should all go home and give ewach other a hug instead of using His name when you go kill other human beings.