Proper do-Uchi

[Kapplow]

The book i'm reading from does a horrible job of teaching Do-Uchi. Which stance do you use it from? Do you swing down, then across, or diagonoial? or is just one straight horizontal slash? Please help.

-Kapplow

[piggy]

what book are you reading?

it is difficult to describe it online. the best advice will be from your sensei.

when you cut, think about cutting into the meat of the body. its not horizontal yet its not segmented. its one smooth cut. have the shinai above your head same with any other strike and bring it down into where the do is. (if thier not wearing bogu, memorize exactly where to hit it. be careful not to hit the arm pit, butt or too low on the waist.

thats about all the information i have to offer but i feel that im forgetting something...

anyway, ask your sensei if you are having trouble!

hope this helped

[Hisham]

The book i'm reading from does a horrible job of teaching Do-Uchi. Which stance do you use it from? Do you swing down, then across, or diagonoial? or is just one straight horizontal slash? Please help.

-Kapplow

Better ask your sensei.

[JoonShik]

Here are some things from what I was taught, bring your shinai up, then down to where it is between your left shoulder and ear. Then you just swing in a diagonal position following through with an angle to the right looking at the opponent at all times. This should help a little. But asking the sensei is only to get a good look at a correct do-uchi.

[ahmed61086]

Yes, just like Joon said, from upper stance, bring the swored over your left shoulder, then down at a 45 degree angle to the do. This is different when hitting the opponents left side, which is a cut from your right. When doing this attack one must bring from upperstance down to the do withougt bringing it to your right shoulder. I hope this helps.

[Pan-Chan]

For a second echo.. Ask your sensei.

I will say that no strikes, unless fighting in jodan-no-kamae -save for katsugi-waza, but it still starts at chudan-, start in any position other than chudan-no-kamae[normal/middle stance]. They are one smooth motion from chudan. But ask your sensei, he'll let you know how he'd like you to do the waza.

[Kapplow]

Thanks. You guys have helped a lot. Unfortuneately I have no sensei, but my search continues to find one. But in a way kendo-world is my sensei.

[ahmed61086]

sorry for the misinterpretation, i didnt mean to say, "start from upper stance", i meant to say, "from chudan, briing to upper stance. Well, ask your sensei.

[Pan-Chan]

sorry for the misinterpretation, i didnt mean to say, "start from upper stance", i meant to say, "from chudan, briing to upper stance. Well, ask your sensei.

Oh, lol. That clears my confusion very nicely. Thanks. ^^;

[piggy]

kapplow, if you ask a more experienced person on this forum, im sure they will help you find a dojo near to where you are. after all, you cannot learn kendo without being in a dojo or having a sensei guide you!

[Greger]

aim for the throat, then make like a half heart movement whith your shinai, and finish it by hitting the do.

1 aim at throat
2move aim over the(enemies shoulders _ _()__
3then down tothe do.HIt! I
I

[Kapplow]

kapplow, if you ask a more experienced person on this forum, im sure they will help you find a dojo near to where you are. after all, you cannot learn kendo without being in a dojo or having a sensei guide you!

You are right in a lot of respects, and if someone found me a sensei I would be forever greatful. However, just because theres no one in my town who teaches Kendo doesn't mean you just dont practice Kendo. Harutane Chiba Sensei of the Hokushin itto ryu said that the study of Budo is like walking through a cave. By yourself it's very dark and you will find it will be more difficult and take LONGER. Having a sensei is like having a bright light inside that cave. The sensei gives you strength and wisdom to help YOURSELF on your own path. In other words, as long as I continue to read the books, read the forums, and PRACTICE. I WILL learn the way of the sword, it will just take a very, very, very long time.
-Kapplow

PS: I live in Tallahassee FL. The closest kendo dojo is in Ft. Walton does anyone know of one closer?

[piggy]

there people on this forum that would dissagree with that but i personally dont mind whether you go to a dojo and recieve proper training or not. it is up to you.

my concern is that by blindly exploring kendo, you could develop bad habits that are extremely difficult to reverse later as you get better.

but like i said, do as you please. it is your choice.

[Kapplow]

yeah your right hopefully I wont have to go solo for too long.

[tattooedasshole]

With out the proper instruction of a sensei, all you're doing is swinging a stick. As Yamada Sensei put it "Any idiot can swing a stick. That's NOT kendo!"

By all means, continue with what you are doing. Just don't call it kendo.

All those books will avail you not. The books are written for those attending a dojo. As such they are giving explanations of things you should have learnt in the dojo. You can't learn kendo from a book. However, the books are a good way to help remeber what you've learnt.
To use the cave analogy; without a sensei, you're going to miss the entrance to the cave, and wander blindly. A sensei would show you where the entrance is, and teach the techinques to "light your way".

[Kapplow]

With out the proper instruction of a sensei, all you're doing is swinging a stick. As Yamada Sensei put it "Any idiot can swing a stick. That's NOT kendo!"

By all means, continue with what you are doing. Just don't call it kendo.

All those books will avail you not. The books are written for those attending a dojo. As such they are giving explanations of things you should have learnt in the dojo. You can't learn kendo from a book. However, the books are a good way to help remeber what you've learnt.
To use the cave analogy; without a sensei, you're going to miss the entrance to the cave, and wander blindly. A sensei would show you where the entrance is, and teach the techinques to "light your way".

I think the books give you a good idea of the basics, and I will also have an edge in volcabulary, ettiquite, posture, and manners.

[piggy]

but diagrams and words can only take you so far...

[tattooedasshole]

I think the books give you a good idea of the basics, and I will also have an edge in volcabulary, ettiquite, posture, and manners.
How do they give a "good idea of the basics"? Does the sensei jump out of the book and show you? How do you even know if you're holding the shinai properly?
The point here is that trying to learn a 3 dimensional art, from 2 dimensional images, just doesn't work. Ettiquet, manners, vocabulary, sure, you can learn them from a book. However, proper strikes, proper posture, foot work, ect.ect.ect. can only be learnt first had (ie. sensei shows you how).

If you don't know how to read, can you learn how from a book? With out someone to teach you what letters are pronounced what way, how could you ever learn? You can't. Because you don't have a basis from which to work. Kendo is, basicaly, the same. With out a base of knowledge for what you are doing, are you actually doing what you think? Dojo's start new students off with foot work, and simple striking motions. They do this because these motions are WAY different from how you walk around daily, swing a bat or stick, ect. If kendo could be taught from a book, why don't senseis give the beginners a bunch of books, and tell them to come back when they have the basics down pat? Because you CAN'T LEARN KENDO FROM A BOOK!!!!!!!
It's just that simple. All the stick swining you do at home, is only causing bad habbits(read bad form) to become ingrained into your mind and body. Then, when you do find a dojo, all your time spent "learning from books", needs to be un-learnt.
Before I started kendo, i did a shit load of reading on the internet, and tryed to learn the basics for myself. When i got the dojo, and started classes, i had to fight with myself to get proper footwork, and simple cuts done properly. Once you have forced a certain motion to become ingrained into your brain, it is MUCH harder to get it out, then it was to get it in.

[Kapplow]

calm down alright, all I'm trying to do is collect as much knowledge as possible while I'm unable to train with somebody else. All I was asking about was how to do a proper do uchi

[tattooedasshole]

And the answer is: you can't learn it from books, the internet, or any other written source. The only way to learn kendo, is at a dojo.
Find all the "knowledge" you can, it won't help you one iota with making a proper cut.
As for being calm, lol, I am always calm. However, you should realise that asking how to do a proper do-uchi over the internet is asinine at best.

[Greger]

yeah your right hopefully I wont have to go solo for too long.

Kaplow
dont you have any dojos in your home area??
perhaps you could go on a budosummercamp or something like that.
try to get in touch whith more dojos, at least for some more guidiance

[Kapplow]

Definately, I;m trying to get in contact with lamberth, a sensei in pensacola I think, I talked to his wife but I haven't talked to him yet. I'm also trying to talk my dad into riding motocross over there, that way while hes riding his bike, I can maybe join the kendo club over there.

I'm really busting my rear trying to find a sensei. Everybody seems to think I want to practice kendo solo. This couldn't be more far from the truth. I'm just trying to have that never say die attitude. Thanks for the advice. A kendo summer camp would be heaven for me.

[Anjin-san]

I suggest you don't argue the 'I can learn Kendo without a sensei' position here. If you've read kwf for a while the debates been done to death, and the high grades tend to agree that kendo = kendo in a dojo. Hopefully Kaoru will come along and sort you out.

With do uchi, I couldn't really make it connect until I deliberately relaxed my elbows on the down swing. Also, recently Chiba sensei visited Mumeishi and made a point of saying that if the shinai connects diagonally, since the do (bougu) is curved the shinai tends to slide off. Instead, at the point of contact he made the shinai horizontal, or at least closer to horizontal than 45 degrees. Gibbo was translating so he might be able to explain it better.

[Kapplow]

I suggest you don't argue the 'I can learn Kendo without a sensei' position here. If you've read kwf for a while the debates been done to death, and the high grades tend to agree that kendo = kendo in a dojo. Hopefully Kaoru will come along and sort you out.

With do uchi, I couldn't really make it connect until I deliberately relaxed my elbows on the down swing. Also, recently Chiba sensei visited Mumeishi and made a point of saying that if the shinai connects diagonally, since the do (bougu) is curved the shinai tends to slide off. Instead, at the point of contact he made the shinai horizontal, or at least closer to horizontal than 45 degrees. Gibbo was translating so he might be able to explain it better.

trust me I'm dont want to do this solo and I've already been straighted out by kaoru and many others. I want to discuss do uchi. On my previous post I thought I mentioned that I am 100% committed to finding a sensei.

[mingshi]

I want to discuss do uchi.

On my previous post I thought I mentioned that I am 100% committed to finding a sensei.
You know, these two sentences cannot go together...

[Anjin-san]

Its good that you're looking for a sensei. Also keep in mind that whatever 'kendo' you practice at home, from a book, WITHOUT a sensei may actually make you worse at Kendo than the other beginners you'll be starting with. Bad habits are tough to get rid of, and are much less likely to develop under the watchful eye of a sensei, but you know this.

[Kapplow]

You know, these two sentences cannot go together...
yeah I do want to discuss do uchi. But everyone just wants to discuss why I shouldn't be trying to learn this alone and believe me you guys have made it more than clear that learning for a book might do more harm than good. I get it.

But I guess some find it enteraining to keep telling me the same thing over and over.
All I want to do is be a part of this message board without ppl hating me at the same time.
Any time I go off subject is in response to someone elses post.
I never thought some would get so upset over this.

[KenShi_JoB]

yeah I do want to discuss do uchi. But everyone just wants to discuss why I shouldn't be trying to learn this alone and believe me you guys have made it more than clear that learning for a book might do more harm than good. I get it.

But I guess some find it enteraining to keep telling me the same thing over and over.
All I want to do is be a part of this message board without ppl hating me at the same time.
Any time I go off subject is in response to someone elses post.
I never thought some would get so upset over this.

If you are 100% committed to finding a sensei, stop asking about do uchi and go out and find a dojo. While you still can't find one, go build up your strenght. Running, push-up, swimming.....

To try to discuss do uchi on the internet without any formal training whatsoever, it is a nonsense thing to do. That's why you get negative feedback from many people. Even a trained beginner, if they can not do men suburi properly, they hould not do doh yet.

[Kapplow]

If you are 100% committed to finding a sensei, stop asking about do uchi and go out and find a dojo. While you still can't find one, go build up your strenght. Running, push-up, swimming.....

To try to discuss do uchi on the internet without any formal training whatsoever, it is a nonsense thing to do. That's why you get negative feedback from many people. Even a trained beginner, if they can not do men suburi properly, they hould not do doh yet.

I've been strength and cardio training, and looking for a dojo all at the same time.

[KenShi_JoB]

I've been strength and cardio training, and looking for a dojo all at the same time.

Well, you can think or do anyway you want, but I think noone going to teach you kendo online. That's the way things are, like it or not.

[Kapplow]

correct! but the internet is by far the best way to find a dojo or sensei. Thats why I'm here.

[Paikea]

correct! but the internet is by far the best way to find a dojo or sensei. Thats why I'm here.That's funny, I'd swear you were asking about the correct technique for do-uchi - and not about where to find a dojo. Must be me...

[Kent Enfield]

I am 100% committed to finding a sensei.Then why arn't you spending your time looking for a job in a city with a dojo rather than arguing here?

[Kapplow]

Then why arn't you spending your time looking for a job in a city with a dojo rather than arguing here?


I work for my father in his jewelry store. I love kendo but I'm not going to abandon my family for it. And eventually I'll find someone in tallahassee who does kendo or I may have to wait until I am able to commute once or twice a week to a dojo somewhere. Please don't question my commitment to my family, my job, or my committment to learning kendo. I've only been searching for about 4 weeks now. I'm sure if I keep at it I'll find somebody, then I'll able to post without being immediately verbally thrashed. But have no fear I know better now than to start any more threads or make any more remarks about your kendo.

[Kapplow]

Quote: That's funny, I'd swear you were asking about the correct technique for do-uchi - and not about where to find a dojo. Must be me...



I was recently told until I'm taking kendo I shouldn't be asking questions like that.

[Kent Enfield]

I love kendo but I'm not going to abandon my family for it.Then you're not "100% committed to finding a sensei." Which is probably a good thing. But no matter what your level of commitment, you have three options:

1) Regularly travel the distance from where you live to where training is held.
2) Move, so that the distance in (1) is short enough to be feasible.
3) No kendo.

If you're not doing (1) or (2), you are doing (3). Don't mislead yourself about it, or about how hard it is to switch from self-taught "kendo" to actual kendo. People keep telling you the same thing over and over, because, even though you claim to "get it" that you shouldn't try to learn on your own, you keep asking the same question over and over. Just because it's not the answer you want (i.e. how to do do-uchi) doesn't mean it's not the appropriate answer to the question.

[Hisham]

But have no fear I know better now than to start any more threads or make any more remarks about your kendo.

Friend, nobody owns Kendo, we only stated a fact which more experienced kenshi and teachers do all the time around here, some of the posters tried to explain do uchi to you which IMHO is in vain since it would be only understood by those who practice it.

Hope it works out for you at the Pensacola dojo. Keep us posted.

[Kapplow]

***thank you***

[Anjin-san]

Man you're going not going get past 'onegaishimasu' if this is the way you react to advice/criticism.

[Hai_hai]

calm down alright, all I'm trying to do is collect as much knowledge as possible while I'm unable to train with somebody else. All I was asking about was how to do a proper do uchi
Much like learning dance or any other martial art, it is best taught in person. Actually, some of the advice is here is quite crappy.

[Hai_hai]

The book i'm reading from does a horrible job of teaching Do-Uchi. Which stance do you use it from? Do you swing down, then across, or diagonoial? or is just one straight horizontal slash? Please help.

-Kapplow
The physical motion of the doing the do-uchi is more complex to describe than a men-uchi.
The do uchi is neither a vertical slash, nor a diagonal slash, nor a horizontal slash. It's partially vertical and partially angled in a complex three-dimentional plane involving angling the wrists at the proper time.
The shinai is drawn up vertically. On the cut downward, the tip draws a half-arc (not the half-arc of a circle but a half-arc of an egg... kind of, not an oval either... it's hard to describe) going outward and then inward. The wrists partially rotate the shinai counter-clockwise on the way down; so the imaginary cutting edge hits the do at a 45 degree angle. During the follow through, the shinai is left horizontal whether you go to the left or the right of your opponent, which makes it appear to be a horizontal cut when passing to the left of your opponent, even though it isn't the case.
Finally, you of course yell 'dou' as your kiai. How to pronounce it is even more difficult. It's kabuki time for me, as I like to over-exaggerate the 'ou' part of "dou".

[Yiu Fai]

I must say that if I had never had been to a kendo training session before, there would be no way in hell I would have been able to undertand/comprehend Hai Hai's concise description, books or no books, video or no video aside

[Kapplow]

The physical motion of the doing the do-uchi is more complex to describe than a men-uchi.
The do uchi is neither a vertical slash, nor a diagonal slash, nor a horizontal slash. It's partially vertical and partially angled in a complex three-dimentional plane involving angling the wrists at the proper time.
The shinai is drawn up vertically. On the cut downward, the tip draws a half-arc (not the half-arc of a circle but a half-arc of an egg... kind of, not an oval either... it's hard to describe) going outward and then inward. The wrists partially rotate the shinai counter-clockwise on the way down; so the imaginary cutting edge hits the do at a 45 degree angle. During the follow through, the shinai is left horizontal whether you go to the left or the right of your opponent, which makes it appear to be a horizontal cut when passing to the left of your opponent, even though it isn't the case.
Finally, you of course yell 'dou' as your kiai. How to pronounce it is even more difficult. It's kabuki time for me, as I like to over-exaggerate the 'ou' part of "dou".

Thank you for the explanation. I think you made it pretty clear, at least for me. I also like the other post someone said about drawing the top of a heart with the tip of the shinai. Question, say you were in shiai and you executed a perfect text book do uchi but you forgot to yell DO. would you still receive a point? What if you just did a regular kiai?

[Kingofmyrrh]

correct! but the internet is by far the best way to find a dojo or sensei. Thats why I'm here.
I think you're getting ahead of yourself again... these questions can easily be answered upon joining a dojo.

[Hai_hai]

Question, say you were in shiai and you executed a perfect text book do uchi but you forgot to yell DO. would you still receive a point? What if you just did a regular kiai?
Yelling the target when performing the cut is a major part of kendo and is taught in the very beginning. No point is given.
This question is the equivalent of running a 100 meter dash before the starting gun goes off. You don't win even if you broke the world record.

[Hai_hai]

I must say that if I had never had been to a kendo training session before, there would be no way in hell I would have been able to undertand/comprehend Hai Hai's concise description, books or no books, video or no video aside
Yeah, I know. It's difficult to describe. Kind of like describing the color red to someone who has been blind since birth.

[kar]

Emphasis use of the left arm when doing do. There is a kind of snap with the left arm/hand that swings the shinai but at the same time the left hand always stays at your center, at the end of the strike it should not be off center to the right, which is a common mistake and means you are not doing the snap and probably using your right arm too much.

[Hai_hai]

Emphasis use of the left arm when doing do. There is a kind of snap with the left arm/hand that swings the shinai but at the same time the left hand always stays at your center, at the end of the strike it should not be off center to the right, which is a common mistake and means you are not doing the snap and probably using your right arm too much.
There's that same kind of snap when doing kote-uchi and men-uchi.
This popping and locking motion is solid but does not bash your opponent... unless it's a break dance competition...

[whosesoever]

The physical motion of the doing the do-uchi is more complex to describe than a men-uchi.
The do uchi is neither a vertical slash, nor a diagonal slash, nor a horizontal slash. It's partially vertical and partially angled in a complex three-dimentional plane involving angling the wrists at the proper time.
The shinai is drawn up vertically. On the cut downward, the tip draws a half-arc (not the half-arc of a circle but a half-arc of an egg... kind of, not an oval either... it's hard to describe) going outward and then inward. The wrists partially rotate the shinai counter-clockwise on the way down; so the imaginary cutting edge hits the do at a 45 degree angle. During the follow through, the shinai is left horizontal whether you go to the left or the right of your opponent, which makes it appear to be a horizontal cut when passing to the left of your opponent, even though it isn't the case.
Finally, you of course yell 'dou' as your kiai. How to pronounce it is even more difficult. It's kabuki time for me, as I like to over-exaggerate the 'ou' part of "dou".

I am sorry to revive a dead thread, but I just want to say thank you for this post. I have struggled with dou-uchi for the past few weeks, even after getting corrected by my Sensei many times. But after reading this, it finally clicked. Again, thank you.

[NigelSponge]

The later parts of this thread were fine, but jeez, some of you guys get so worked up over someone who just doesn't have a dojo near him, he obviously has a passion, i mean, hell, he has like 1,000 posts! lol I say, Kapplow, if you wanna do kendo, keep doing it, bad habits and all, if it makes you happy, and doesn't hurt anyone, have at it! Having some hard to break habits when you do finally find a dojo is better than getting your spirit crushed and not wanting to do kendo anymore period.

As for do-uchi, my best piece of advice, although it isn't a 'how to' i find it improves one's do. -Keep you elbows down and in- If your elbows are up, it just throws off the whole balance and cutting angle of the strike, and makes it much harder to hit accurately.

Good Luck! =)

[rainmaker]

this was posted on 2005!! Kapplow there are 2ways of doing do waza, horizontal and 45 angle. But it is depending on your sensei. Ask Maeda sensei when you meet him next time

[NigelSponge]

this was posted on 2005!! Kapplow there are 2ways of doing do waza, horizontal and 45 angle. But it is depending on your sensei. Ask Maeda sensei when you meet him next time

yea, i realized that AFTER the 5 minute edit time >_< i kinda look like a dweeb now haha.

[rainmaker]

Bahahahaha. Happened to me few times


yea, i realized that AFTER the 5 minute edit time >_< i kinda look like a dweeb now haha.

[Kapplow]

Looking back at some of my earlier posts makes me cringe lol.


It's been about 3 years since this thread. In that time I learned that some advice was good and some was bad. One undeniable fact. You can't learn from a book alone. You have to see a sensei. This doesn't mean you have to see them on a regular basis. Just as much as you can manage. Bad habits will develop. But everyone who does Kendo spends their entire lives correcting them regardless if you're in a ideal dojo situation or "lonely" student, seeing a sensei only once a month. In the end, you're responsible for your own Kendo. I've seen ppl simply show up, assuming their sensei will correct them. Those who strictly analyze and critque thier own Kendo will make it reagardless of their situation. It puts a big smile on my face when I see my kohai going through a mental kendo "checklist" on their own. If you truely love Kendo, you'll turn out fine. This my simple opinion in the very short time I've been training.

The issue I have is that I got the impression here that I couldn't start a club. It was only after speaking to higher level sensei that I was actually encouraged to start a club. Sometimes there's too much "can't" and not enough "can" here. Anyone who lives in a town with no Kendo and wants to start, IMMEADATELY start a study group. Find others who want to do Kendo, make field trips to sensei, practice what you can as group until your next visit, use books and internet to help. Waste no time! Kendo is too fun!

[rainmaker]

I know it has been trough journey for you and I do respect you more than any other senseis or sampais out there. People just dont' understand other people's situation. Once you are outside of Japan, Korea, and some large metro area such as LA, NY, San Francisco, it is very hard to find any kendo dojo out there. It is really hard to move around for you since you need to help your family business and also eager to practice Kendo. Kapplow has been travelling 5~10 hours to practice with senseis and sempais and go home and practice with his friend. I believe he just got his shodan or planning to get this. I am happy to see him to get this since he deserve this more than anyone else. I had chance to practice with him and he does have very solid skill. Good luck and look forward to practice with you in the near future.






Looking back at some of my earlier posts makes me cringe lol.


It's been about 3 years since this thread. In that time I learned that some advice was good and some was bad. One undeniable fact. You can't learn from a book alone. You have to see a sensei. This doesn't mean you have to see them on a regular basis. Just as much as you can manage. Bad habits will develop. But everyone who does Kendo spends their entire lives correcting them regardless if you're in a ideal dojo situation or "lonely" student, seeing a sensei only once a month. In the end, you're responsible for your own Kendo. I've seen ppl simply show up, assuming their sensei will correct them. Those who strictly analyze and critque thier own Kendo will make it reagardless of their situation. It puts a big smile on my face when I see my kohai going through a mental kendo "checklist" on their own. If you truely love Kendo, you'll turn out fine. This my simple opinion in the very short time I've been training.

The issue I have is that I got the impression here that I couldn't start a club. It was only after speaking to higher level sensei that I was actually encouraged to start a club. Sometimes there's too much "can't" and not enough "can" here. Anyone who lives in a town with no Kendo and wants to start, IMMEADATELY start a study group. Find others who want to do Kendo, make field trips to sensei, practice what you can as group until your next visit, use books and internet to help. Waste no time! Kendo is too fun!