1st set of bogu

[ddusha]

i am looking to purchase my first set of bogu. I am not sure what I should be looking for. I do not want to spend an outrageous amount, but then again, I do not want to be buying a new set every year and also sacrafice the protection.

what would anyone suggest?

thank you

[KhawMengLee]

What is your budget?

[ddusha]

I would like to stay under $1,000 US
I just found a 2.5 bu for sale at tozando.com is that a good one?

not sure about all the mm or bu

[Atama]

$1,000 US damn you can get a really kick arse set of bogu for that cash. My advise is go for korean the quality is as good as japaneses but much cheaper I got my 1.2 bu handstitched set for £780.00 uk shipped and my fiance got a 1.5 bu handstiched for £650.00, we use a company called Sehyun in korea, Kendo shop is also a good korean company. Tozando tends to be pretty pricey for bogu.

mm & bu - mm is the distance between the stiching on machine stiched bogu the smaller the gap the tougher the material, on machine stiched set you'll notice the stiching is done in lines. However as I understand it (and I may be wrong) bu is used in reference to hand made kits as they are stiched both vertical and horizontal (makin lil square patterns kinda), bu is not equal to mm , my 1.2bu is about 3mm across the stitching, but is really tough I've had it a year and it still hasn't broken in (i'd get 2bu next time)

Good look finding your bogu all I'll say is do your homework first it'll pay off and check out the Sehyun and kendo shop sites.

[ddusha]

thank you for you help Atama

[Pichit]

That is a hugh budget

Well if it is $1000 you can many of good set like in kendo shop now on their february sale they have 1.5 hand stitch bogu that cost only $856.

Or you can get a very best machine stitch bogu from korea like 2mm Machine stitch deluxe ( with some Japanese component and partly hand stitch and with titanium mengane and 60 piece bamboo doh) from e-kendo for $990.

Or if you want to buy bogu made in Japan, try bogubag.com, they offer a lot of machine stitch bogu that cost less than $1000.

There are 4 web site for Korean bogu that you should look at it
www.kendoshop.com
www.e-kendo.com
www.e-bogu.com
www.sehyun-kumdo.com


Also for Japanese made bogu, here are another web site that you should look www.bogu-ya.com

For 2.5 bu from Tozando, I think that it might be better to buy 2mm or 3mm machine stitch bogu as it should be more shock resistance from hitting than 2.5 bu or may be like Atama, buy 1.5 bu or 1.2 bu machine stitch bogu from korea.

Anyway good luck on buy your bogu and play kendo as long as you can

Pichit

[alexpollijr]

The 2.5 bu from Tozando is definetely not a good idea.
With that much money you should pick one of the Koei sets on www.bogubag.com . That's what I would do in your place.

If you want to save some money you might try the 3mm or 2.5mm from either e-bogu, e-kendo or kendoshop ( all .com ), they'll give you some bang for the buck.

[KhawMengLee]

Wow, with that budget you can get some gooood bogu:D .

I recommend http://www.koei-budogu.co.jp/ ask for a catalogue and about their price discounts. They have 3mm set(s22) which retails for about 300,000yen(3000us) but you should be able to get more than 50% off that price. The set comes with a bamboo dou too.

actually, ask for the catalogue first because there are tons other good bogu there. thyey will mail it free.

[Neil Gendzwill]

If you're in the states and you wish to buy Koei Budogu gear, I recommend bogubag.com. Robert Stroud runs bogubag and is an experienced kendoka and a nice guy. You'll be able to get a pretty nice set for your budget.

[Lukas]

I got the same problem several months ago - which supplier to chose. I decided to take 4 mm machine bogu from Tozando - with current sales it costs about 1000$.
What I can say at this stage (only several months of use) is that I am VERY satisfied with the quality.
It passed "crash tests" with my sensei's shinai :D and kirikaeshi-do haven't left too many marks on Do ;)
I was thinking about Kendoshop but my kendo friends hadn't very good experience with buying from them.
Apart from that, I have some equipment from Tozando and it is all of good quality so I rather trust'em.
But yes, price is rather high, when comparing to Korean equipment.
However my sensei advised me to take 4mm Japanese rather than 3 mm Korean. I can't tell if that is a good approach (again prices!) but who else you can trust when not to your sensei :D

Good luck!

[Atama]

$1000 for 4mm machine stiched .....damn u got robbed pal

[Neil Gendzwill]

Not necessarily. We have 4 mm sets from Koei and 3 mm sets from e-bogu and the 4 mm Koei sets are better than the 3 mm e-bogu. However it's not even that simple as Koei makes several grades of 4 mm sets and e-bogu sells at least 2 grades of 3 mm. Koei's better 4 mm sets are quite a bit better than e-bogu's cheaper 3 mm sets (but also more expensive). Koei's cheaper 4 mm set (G-20) is somewhat better than e-bogu's cheaper 3 mm but probably not as good as e-bogu's better 3 mm set (we haven't seen the better one).

I can tell you that $1000 spent at bogubag will get you a very nice machine-stitched set. My recommendation is to get the S-22 set but get a fibreglass doh instead of bamboo. See:

http://www.bogubag.com/Bogu/Machine_3mm/machine_3mm.html

[Pichit]

so how about 2mm machine stitch bogu made in Korea, Is that 3mm or 2.5mm or 2mm machine stitch bogu made in Japan is going to be better than 2mm machine stitch bogu made in Korea? There are 2 grade of 2mm machine stitch bogu made in Korea,
1) Korean standard (Dulalumin mengane, cow leather, 50 piece bamboo look doh)
2)Almost near to Japanese Standard (Titanium mengane, Japanese deerskin+Japanese fabric+60 piece bamboo doh+Partly hand stitch)

Can anyone give the opinion please.

Pichit

[Neil Gendzwill]

I don't think you can say there's two or whatever Korean standard bogu. It depends on company. I can tell you that the inexpensive bogu I've seen from Korea from several sources is inexpensive for a reason. If you examine the futon (the padding) for example, it's typically evenly stitched. ie if it's advertised as 3mm, all the stitching will be 3 mm apart. On a Koei or Tozando set, 3 mm will be the *maximum* width - depending on where in the futon you're talking about the stitching will be narrower. Also the cheap Korean futon will all be one thickness, whereas the better Japanese ones vary in thickness (thin at the end of the kote for example). Also despite a cheap Korean set being 3 mm, the padding can be quite soft. A good Japanese 3 mm set has very hard padding, so hard it will be several months before your ears stop hurting from the break in period.

In short, you gets what you pays for. I believe the Korean sets are generally very good value and you can get more for your money especially on the cheaper end. They've certainly provided a cheaper path for beginners to obtain bogu and that's nothing but good for kendo. But if you've got a higher budget and you're looking for nice stuff, you owe it to yourself to do a little more research and be aware that 3 mm from one company is a *lot* different than 3 mm from another.

[Pichit]

Thank you for advice

[Pichit]

So Mr Gendzwill which machine stitch bogu do you think that you would recommend me if the budget is not the problem ( my budget is about $1200 maximum), because I also still search for my first bogu too and I spend about a month already, but I still have no idea where to buy.

[Neil Gendzwill]

For $US1130 I recommend Koei's S-22 set with yamato doh instead of bamboo. Or for $1070 the G-23 set. See the link I previously posted to bogubag.com. Be aware that you'll need to budget a few extra dollars for shipping and duty/VAT.

[Pichit]

Thank you very much for your advise again

[Atama]

I personaly haven't used a set from tozando and I'm sure they do have some decent kits, however my sensei spent £1,300 sterling on a machine stiched kit which to 8 months to arrive and got salt stains in it after only a few months and from what he said after he visited his sensei in japan, the consensus was that the material was very low quality and that he had been over charged.

[alexpollijr]

Tozando stuff is definetely overpriced.
For their price you get better stuff at Moribudo (supplier of most Police Dojo, as far as I know) or Koei .

[Neil Gendzwill]

If you catch Tozando on a sale they're OK but at their regular prices you're much better off elsewhere.

[Pichit]

For Moribudo, I have look at their web site already which they sell their hand stitch a bit more expensive than koei that sell by bogubag.com, but they claim that they have remodeled the way of stitching in order to absorb more shock and their mengane is titanium IBB Mengane.

I was interested in their hand sew bogu, but the problem is that I'm not Dan Grade yet which I felt that it might not be appropriate yet for me to wear it.

[Ryukyu]

A lot of good advice for someone in that price range, but what about in the $500-$700 range?
Does anyone know of anyplace that sells used or reconditioned bogu? (besides looking on eBay?)
Thank you in advance for the information.
:)

[Pichit]

My friend he try to sell his unused boguwhich he bought from Japan last year because of he suddenly quite kendo before he receive the bogu, it is 5mm machine stitch bogu made by Mitsuboshi which he bought for more than $650 and he want to sell around $500 or even lees than this price so if you interested in this bogu I will contact my friend.

[stevemcgee99]

This is something I just asked sensei about. Of course, it depends on the quality, and how worn out it is.

I'd like to get something cheap, because several months away I'm going to Japan. I don't want to wait until then to get bogu. I also have thought about buying a cheaper set, then upgrading parts when I get to Japan.

[Marine_Boy]

Erm what about the lower end of the spectrum for bogu from www.Ninecircles.co.uk?

I think when I am ready for armour I can afford £300 max.

Stan

[emitbrownne]

www.Eurobogu.net
Quality items at cheapish prices......

Have a look

[highelf]

Just purchased 2mm with Titanium Men, machine stitched from E-Bogu. It took two days to reach Hawaii. Excellent quality and service. They included bogu bag, tenugui, and himo strings at no extra cost. It cost $799. Fellow members and sensei's were shocked at the quality and strength of bogu for the price. They thought it was a hand stitch bogu. It took some time to prove that it was machine. Very stiff, but I feel very well protected. Even with extreme hits it's hardly noticable. I was so impressed with the quality and service I bought another set for my daughter. I know these sets will last. Anyway that's my experience with E-Bogu. I'm fully satisfied. Oh! By the way compare prices, E-Bogu is pretty reasonable. Thanks!

[JSchmidt]

Euro-bogu is the European rep for Koei. I've used them several times and you pay Japanese prices and no shipping fee.
I highly recommend them, if you live in Euro-land.

Jakob

[stevemcgee99]

I've heard it said often and take it as common wisdom that $500 is the starting point for bogu. I have seen lots of e-bogu, but haven't used it. I wonder how long the laquer on the me will last? I chose the A3 from Eguchi. It was discounted $15 dollars at the taikai- but the deal clincher for me was the upgraded kote, from the $1400 set. The bag included is upgraded, too. With another taikai in a week, any more fitting of the men (there was some prior to shipping based on measurements when I ordered) can be done. I think she got it on the first try, though.

The list of "perks" isn't as long as the Korean bogu for the same price, but I believe the construction is higher quality and this will last a long time. Others I've seen with it seem to have little "flaking men" or "wavy" mendare.

[Karaken]

Excuse me guys, doesn't e-bogu sells Korean bogu as well as Japanese ones?

Center - Kote

[Neil Gendzwill]

I think everything e-bogu sells is Korean-sourced. They do advertise some sets built with "Japanese materials". They used to have a Japanese-made hand-stitched set advertised but it isn't there anymore.

[Hai_hai]

This is an informative topic, being a beginner without bogu yet. Spending up to $1200??? That's a lot of money to me.
Is kendo equipment like other sports equipment, the more you pay, the more protection you get? I'd like an answer with this question because I would be willing to pay more for more protection.
The bogu companies don't claim that a particular set of equipment is more protective. Is it all the same level of protection, just different materials and quality?

One quick question, if you spend $1000 on your first set of equipment, do the teachers and high-ranking students look down upon that? Or just the people who read this board?

[iwatekenshi]

I think for 1,200 bucks you can get a nice bogu that is durable. FYI if you go cheap it won't last, but of course that depends on how much you practice. My club's parents sometimes regret not buying something better because after all the practices they end up paying a lot in repairs. Sometimes they go all the way in buying new kote after the first cheap set rot out. (HINT: Buy two sets of kote, perhaps going cheap, and rotate them between practices. Kote are always the first to go in the fix-it bin, and if you don't have another set you're screwed because you have to wait for the repair.)

About being looked down upon while a beginner and wearing nice bogu? Well yes there is something to that effect, but go simple and go durable. From high ranking Japanese teachers you'll get more repect for being modest and simplistic, rather than being flashy and good.

Good Luck!

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by Hai_hai
The bogu companies don't claim that a particular set of equipment is more protective. Is it all the same level of protection, just different materials and quality?

Like anything else, there's a law of diminishing returns. For the most part if you're talking about the $1000 range you're still on the worthwhile slope of the curve, getting better protection and durability than cheaper sets. There's definitely a big difference in protection between a $500 set and a $1000 set.

One quick question, if you spend $1000 on your first set of equipment, do the teachers and high-ranking students look down upon that? Or just the people who read this board?

$1000 isn't very much money as far as bogu goes. You can spend $10,000 or more if you like. As long as you keep it plain (black doh, simple embroidery) nobody will think less of you for spending that much money for your first set.

[Hai_hai]

to iwatekenshi and Neil Gendzwill,
Thank you for your answers. I will keep them in mind when I get around to buying bogu. ( I look forward to that but right now, my technique and skill need more improvement... and I need to save some money.)

[bubbles35]

I'm looking to buy my first set of bogu, but my budget is not that high!! It's more like, under $500. I was thinking of buying a $390 5/2.5mm bogu at e-bogu. But I have no idea what kind of quality it is or if it's going to look cheap as well. I don't want to stand out. why is it so cheap?
I'm clueless when it comes to bogu. What should I look for and where is the best place for me to get a bogu? There are so many sites and some look so busy that I feel overwhelmed.

[dotnet]

I bought my first new men and kote form kendoshop.com.

The kote (2mm deluxe) didn't last very long. I had a hole in the left kote after 2.5 months (2-4 training/week). The leather on the palm was very thin. I recently wrote an e-mail to them and complained about the qualitity. They send me a new pair (here the leather was much thicker compared to my first set) even before I posted the old ones - a very nice offer since I didn't have to quit training for that time. This set also absorbs much more sweat on the palm.

Compared to some really old tozando kote from a fellow club-member, the padding is quite thin. At the beginning I often had bruises but apparently the body seems to adjust to that. I rarely get bruises now. But I don't know how this bogu will feel like in 1 years time. So far I can't complain.

Men: The black paint on the rim around the mengane does come off. But how long does it take on an expensive set ? I may not look neat any more but that is not my concern when buying a men. The padding must be quite good, since it is still quite stiff around the ears ;-).

My impression of kendoshop is: If you complain about faulty gear, they replace it. From what some friends told me, other shops did not always act like this. The person from kendoshop I talked to was very polite and reasonable. They also covered the shipping costs - both ways. The quality you get for your money is very good. And if it isn't, they replace it ;-) at least in my case.

dotnet

[Pichit]

Dotnet-san

Before you use your 2mm kote for the first time in practice, is your kote quite stiff? Because last month I did try on 2mm deluxe kote from kendoshop which was shown by Nine circle, I felt that the kote is quite soft which is different from my kote( also 2mm deluxe ) from e-kendo which it is still very stiff despite I use it regularly for 2 months already. Both Kote from these 2 companies are lokk so much similar.

[Kirin]

Dont get anything from e-bogu

you might save some money but quality sux !
above all their customer service is #$%%#!

[dotnet]

Dotnet-san

Before you use your 2mm kote for the first time in practice, is your kote quite stiff?

In terms of padding and stiffness this kote is quite soft - but it stayed more or less the same over 3 months. It didn't degrade a lot. But yes, it is quite soft.

Cheers,
dotnet