how do u fight jyodan?

[Tenken]

I been having trouble fighting jyodan people. I guess it became a new thing and lots of people is doing it. Anyone know how to fight them?:confused:

[qpuppy]

As said in other threads before....
left kote... both side of do... or tsuki....
have you kenshin pointing at the left kote.... and stand alittle bit further than your normal fighting distance... jodan players have a greater reach than chudan players...

[Steve]

Your best bet is to try and make the Jodan player attack from a far distance away. ie make them use a katate waza. They only have ONE chance with this attack and if you are ready for it, its easily coubtered via kaeshi waza, uchiotoshi waza, suriage waza, etc...

Use Tsuki a lot. Katate and Morote. Both Kote are valid targets, but hte left is the easier to hit. Both sides of the Do as well. Men is possible, but only if you can make them move their arms out of position first.

[JSchmidt]

Raise your kensen towards the jodan player's left kote, both to threaten his kote and protect your own.
You can alternate your kamae either pointing against the kote or tsuki, but be prepared to cover the kote.
Always move to the right. If you move to the left, you have to attack, as it will open up your kote.
Forget about the do. Distance will make it very hard to hit..only way it's really possible is with kaeshi-gyaku do. (Normal side can't be done, as the jodan players right arm will go down and cover, the moment he/she cuts).
The only time anyone has hit my do otherwise, is when I've been exhausted and didnt react to them closing the distance.
Morote-tsuki, in general, will also leave you short of distance. Katate-tsuki is good, both as a 'Here I am' and to judge distance, but it can leave you very open if you miss.
The trick is the distance. The jodan player has longer reach than you and can cut from further out. Your choice is then either to entice the jodan player to cut from extreme distance and use kaeshi/suriage/harai waza or attempt to close the distance and attack either kote or tsuki.

[moocow65]

first of all, you're not supposed to fight far away from a person doing jodan. you can't hit him, but he can hit you. it's better to fight close. to go against jodan, you have to first start out with the right kamae. it should be higher and the kensaki should point to his left or right kote. i think having the kensaki point to the right kote is better. this kamae is kinda hard to explain. maybe your sensei knows what i'm talking about. and never go tsuki. geez that's what he wants you to do. if you go against a guy who does crappy jodan, then go for tsuki. if he's pretty good, then i would suggest not going for tsuki cause he can easily defend it, and it leaves you wide open for a men. i guess it would be good to fake a tsuki, but never really go for it. just go for the left and right kote. that's probably your best bet. when i do nito, i love it when people go for my tsuki, because it leaves their men wide open. it's best to fight close against jodan too. remember they can come down to chudan whenever they want to. if you fight far away, they can come at you with jodan, and when you're blocking they'll switch to chudan and be able to hit kote or tsuki or do. fight close and be aggressive. the more you wait, the bigger the chances of you getting hit.

[misterkurukuru]

Dont go tsuki on a jodan person, they will kill you. you have to get in close to beat a jodan person. I say hit a sashi men bcause while you are following through you can lock the person up so they cant do kaishi wazas. OH and unless you are really good at suriage wazas or the jodan guy sucks, then that stuff wont work. The jodan person will get the timing of your waza and then you are toast.

[ben]

A good way to learn how to fight jodan is to practice jodan yourself. Then you can see from the inside what are the weak points of the kamae and its waza.

b

[Steve]

It seems a lot of you are against using Tsuki vs a Jodan person. Why? Its a great opportunity to learn tsuki. I would say that katate tsuki would be one of my primary attacks vs a Jodan person from Chudan / Seigan no Kamae.

On the other hand, (since i use Jodan) i encourage very strongly for people to try tsuki against me. why? its helps me to learn to defend against it and not to fear it.

Seems like tsuki is a win-win technique for both players.

[amatsuda]

If you do Katae-Tsuki against a strong Jodan player, they will simply time their men-uchi with your tsuki and knock your shinai out of the way with their kote as they are dropping it to their waist.

[Kendoka]

Originally posted by Tenken
I been having trouble fighting jyodan people. I guess it became a new thing and lots of people is doing it. Anyone know how to fight them?:confused:


Yes jodan is hard to counter.

How about trying this - the moment that the player takes the jodan position - you attack instantly, could be kote, do, tsuki.

[KATSUJIN]

I was told by my sensei that when u have to keiko against jodan, aim ur kensen for the left kote, but attack the right kote. Becos, the left hand can be pivoted away from a attack but the right hand cant becos of the shoulder or something like that.

[misterkurukuru]

Katsujin if you do that, you will open your men when you transition from left to right kote. Also your kote will be open if you try that strike.

[Tenken]

Thank you for many info on how to fight a jyodan. i tried some of them like doing tsuki but by the time my tsuki reached him, he already hit my men and passed by me. And also when i did the kamae of puting the kensaki to the left kote(hira seigan), he kept hitting my kote and i also tried the right side also (kasumi no kamae) but he started to hit the other kote and my yoko men. i need more info so please help.

[Kuri]

In addition to all of the above, try not to stay static. Move to your right (ie to their left). It makes hitting your right kote (when in hira seigan) more difficult. Also, it's more difficult to hit a moving target, and you put yourself in a position to act/react quicker (less inertia).
Give it a try and see how it goes.

[Paburo]

in my short career as kenshi (1 and half yrs) i never had to fight many jodan ppl. hell, i haven't even had much chance to fight in shiai at all.
but in the last month i had to fight two yondan sensei using jodan. miraculously, i survived with hikiwake on both.
so even if you are my sempai, maybe i can share some of my begginers luck/waza to you tenken fellow.

if you notice your kote is still open and hitable after hira seigan, then open hira seigan to your right even more and raise the shinai a bit more.
this protects your kote and men more, leaving your dou also more open, but jodan ppl usually don't go for dou, so its ok i guess.

if done fast, kaeshi waza worked for me. both men and dou, though the only ippons i could really score were from hitting kote(degote).

beware that some jodan ppl ungrip their left hand from shinai so you miss, then grip again and counter attack. it's also very easy for them to do nuki men. so always move to your right and always forward, never ever step on the spot where HE can attack you but you CAN'T(obviously jodan kenshi have a longer reach).

this is another trick i saw in the last taikai i went: when the jodan kenshi misses a katate strike, given the opportunity fiercely strike his shinai to make him lose the grip, then attack. it's either hansoku for him or ippon if you succeed.

[M.K. Kawai]

Tenken,

I hope this information will help you. When you point your kenseki to the left side (your opponents right side) as oppose to pointing it to the left kote there are a couple things you might want to do.

First, don't aim your kenseki to the right kote. Instead, line up your shinai so that the angle will match the angle of his shinai. In other words, from your POV you will not be able to see his shinai.

Second, your arms will be raised higher than the chudan position. Depending on the size of the person who is doing jodan, your right arm may end up almost parallel or higher to the ground almost as if you just finished hitting men. This is especially true against people who are taller than you.

Third, and probably the hardest part to get used to, is that your hands will be off center. From your POV, your right hand will cross over your left hand. This is a very awkward feeling to get used to.

Finally, as soon as you see your opponents shinai break the plane of your shinai, you need to go in immediately otherwise you will get nailed. So keep moving and try not to stand still for a prolonged period of time.

Now some drawbacks to this kamae.

First, your vision is blocked on the right side. If you don't react when his shinai moves and it comes over onto your blindside, you will not be able to determine if he is going to hit Do, Kote, etc.

Second, your attack options are limited if your wrists are not strong. You are left primarily with strking for his left kote or gyakudo. If you have really good wrists then more options will be available to you.

Lastly, you tend to come in closer than you normally would as oppose to using some of the other kamaes previously mentioned. Partly because this kamae has your hands practically outstreched and you are practically dependent on wrist action. Also, the restricted vision doesn't help your situation either.

I hope this helps. It's a little hard to explain it without showing it. But, best of luck to you. Whatever kamae you end up using against jodan just stick with it. You'll get it eventually.

MKK

[Steve]

The "kamae" you are using is used a lot by people who are used to fighting Jodan. Actually they interchange (frequently) between that and the standard modified chudan. it makes it hard for the Jodan person to find an opening, unless of course they can find a pattern in your kamae switching...;)

[kawa]

This works for me “once”…

1. Point kensen from his left kote moving to his Tsuki…

2. Raise your kensen to the men while moving left (in one motion)… Good Jodan kendo-ka will most likely go for your right kote as you move left…

3a. (If your distance is close) Open your right hand away and on hand strike to the men.

3b. (If your distance is far) One hand Tsuki to the men, follow by strike to the men. Tsuki to the men have to be so strong that even if you miss you end up in front of him.

Experienced kendo-ka will never fell for this TWICE.