questions about samurai

[otakuworldwide]

hey party people, just have a quick question about samurai

does anyone know what where the arts they did? because i know they did kenjitsu and archery, but i dont know what else, like i hear it on a history challel documentory, but i dont remember what it was, can anyone help me?

[Greger]

These are the arts i know of being practiced;Kenjutsu, kyodo(archery), shooting from horseback, riding, (perhaps they did practice some karate as well, not sure, it seems to be one of those okinawa arts). Yari, or naginata could also have been used. Some ryus taught shoto/shortsword techniques.

[karai]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenjutsu
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jujutsu
I believe (but don't take my word for it) that most samurai were required to train in the art of kyujutsu (Japanese archery), horseback archery and soujutsu (spear fighting, so to speak) as well as the two more obvious disciplines, depending upon their role on the battlefield as well as their rank. As the samurai class existed for centuries and because there were so many samurai from so many areas (there was no strict, singular governmental body regulating any standards, but rather the samurai themselves were loyal to their given superiors who were allied with other lords which wielded more authority than them, thus forming clans), it is hard to say exactly which arts/ways the "generic" samurai was required to be proficient in. There were weapons that were highly favored during certain periods, such as the yari's popularity due to its' effectiveness in battle and the simplicity of its' design, however, so I would guess that most samurai simply went along with the times and trained in whatever arts which were required of them/they found to be more effective.

[otakuworldwide]

thankz everyone for your help this info was very informative. thank you

[WolfofMibu]

The samurai also practiced Ju Jutsu. they needed a bare handed art to defend from sword bearing people as well if they didnt have theirs(but it wouldnt seem likely that they would seperate themselves from their sword)

[Mr. Donigan]

Don't forget, Musashi was also a writer and painter. A samurai should know the tea ceremony (at well enought to follow along), caligraphy, and haiku (poetry).

[HokiIaidoka]

Ok....hello everyone, here are some of my conjectures on what I have read and learned from various martial artists and historians, most of the primary information comes from "Secrets of the Samurai" by Oscar Ratti and Adele Westbrook, and my interpretation of that book. Please, feel free to correct any misinterpretation I might have. Thanks!

Most samurai practiced a variety of arts, but were usually proficient in one or two depending on the ryu (or school) where they were taught. (There is a list of schools (very few, comparitively) at the bottom of this post.) Here is a list of major arts the samurai would have been taught.

Archery-
kyujutsu (Standing Archery)
shagei (I believe, archery from the back of a horse)

Spearsmanship-
sojutsu
yarijutsu (The art of the Yari (normal spear))
naginatajutsu (The art of the Naginata (bladed spear))
sodegaramijutsu
sasumatajutsu

Swordsmanship-
tojutsu (I believe, and older form of swordsmanship)
kenjutsu (The art of the sword when in combat)
iaijutsu (The art of Drawing the sword)
tantojutsu (The art of the knife)

Horsemanship-
bajutsu-
jobajutsu- (No idea)
suibajutsu-

Swimming-

suieijutsu
oyogijutsu
katchu gozen oyogi


There were also many minor arts including

The art of the war fan
tessenjutsu

Art of the staff
jojutsu
tetsubojutsu

Art of the jitte (swordbreakers)
juttejutsu

And then you have the unarmed arts:
Aikijutsu
Jujutsu
kempo
karate
kogusoku
kumiuchi
Shikaku
sumo

and the list goes on. So, as you can see, asking which arts the Samurai would have trained in is a very difficult question, because each Samurai was different. There are an infinite amount of possiblities of combinations of arts.

Here is a list of several schools and their specialties.

Aisu-kage- Swordsmanship
Araki- Chained weapons
Daito- close combat
Hakutsu- Close combat
Hasegawa- swordsmanship
Hioki- archery
Hoki- swordsmanship (the school my style of iaido is derived from, they also did some jujitsu if my memory serves me correctly)
Isshin- chained weapons
Kukishin- staff

Ok, the list goes on for many, many more, but that gives you some idea. Now keep in mind, these were their specializations, each school would have taught the basics in all areas of fighting (ranged, armed, unarmed). Now, Samurai also might have trained at multiple schools to gain proficiency in more things. But, keep in mind, the samurai didn't say "I want to be a sword master" and then seek out a sword school. It had more to do with who their parents were and what schools were available (monetarily, politically, socially, and geographically).

Now, we haven't even touched on the arts of society (tea ceremony, sake pouring, calligraphy, haiku, ect....) but I don't know much about those, nor do I have a book on them. But I hope this has answered your question a little bit.

Finally, the answer you are looking for, to be a "modern samurai" one should probably be trained in a spear art, a sword art (or several), a form of unarmed combat, and a form of archery. Also, if one could find it, a societal art would be nice...but that's a lot to ask.

Ok, again, these are all my ideas, this is an internet forum, I am merely sharing information I have learned, and as always that information could be flawed. I hope not, as I have tried to be as accurate as possible, but take it with a grain of salt. I do not have a doctorate in Japanese Archeology. Please feel free to ask more questions or critique my thoughts! I hope you enjoyed this post!

Sincerely,

Again, all this information was from "Secrets of the Samurai" I am merely forwarding it to you.

[Taisaburo]

Wasn't Yabusame archery from horseback?

[HokiIaidoka]

Taisaburo,

Yabusame was not mentioned in the book I am referencing from, so you could be very correct. I had no idea what Shagei was, so Yabusame could be horseback archery. That also might have fallen under the general category of horsemanship instead of archery, so I have no idea. Thanks for the feedback,

Sincerely,

[mimijaja]

Samurai was required to train 18 kinds of fighting skills(It's called Bugei-jyu-happan). Those were archery,horsemanship, spear-fighting, sword-fighting, draw-sword, short sword-fighting, naginata, throwing knife(syuri-ken), swimming, jitte-jyutu(short metal truncheon), bou-jyutu(stick fighting), arrest-skill(torite-jyutu), mojiri-jyutu(arresting tool skill), chain-sickle, fukumi-bari-jyutu(blow out needle from mouth), ongyou-jyutu(hiding skill), gunnery, and jyu-jyutu.

Did I miss something? :)
For some of skill I could not find good translation, so those might be unclear.

[ninjamster15]

samurai were considered to represent japan. not just their martial skills, but their culture as well. For combat, they were trained with swords, spears, and archery, as well as martial arts. Culturally, they were required to learn caligraphy, flower arrangement and poetry (there might be more...i've forgotten). They were eventually trained to use guns, but not unti around the end of the 1500's (or 1600..if forgot that too)

[ninjamster15]

Samurai was required to train 18 kinds of fighting skills(It's called Bugei-jyu-happan). Those were archery,horsemanship, spear-fighting, sword-fighting, draw-sword, short sword-fighting, naginata, throwing knife(syuri-ken), swimming, jitte-jyutu(short metal truncheon), bou-jyutu(stick fighting), arrest-skill(torite-jyutu), mojiri-jyutu(arresting tool skill), chain-sickle, fukumi-bari-jyutu(blow out needle from mouth), ongyou-jyutu(hiding skill), gunnery, and jyu-jyutu.

Did I miss something? :)
For some of skill I could not find good translation, so those might be unclear.
I don't think they learned all of those...chain sickles (kusari gama) were very difficult to use, and were fairly uncommon. The only reference i found to needle projectile attacks was Ueno Izu, who threw (not blew) 12cm needles. Hiding? i doubt that. Usually, samurai were kept in large groups (escorting, combat between armies, etc), which were difficult to conceal. The 18 fighting skills you've described fall more into the first 4 training "halls" in ninjutsu that the training samurai generally received.

[pgsmith]

Hey y'all,

A little bit of reality here guys ...
First, Secrets of the Samurai is a very dangerous book. Ratti and Westbrook assembled everything they could find in English to create that volume with no research to determine the truth or validity of its contents. Many good things are in there, but there are also countless mistakes. Unless you've done enough personal research to know which is which, I would advise not trusting anything you read out of there.

Second, when you say Samurai, you are encompassing an era that is about a thousand years long. The samurai began as a distinct social class starting around 800 or 900, and wasn't abolished until the end of the 1800's. During that time, various clans were consolidated into fiefdoms and then the entire country was consolidated after a hundred years of near constant war. Those that were thought of as samurai changed greatly according to what time they lived in, and also what clan they were born to. An Edo samurai of the early 1800's would be an extremely different animal from a Nara samurai of the 1000's. Those that we commonly romanticize as "Samurai" with all of their ideals, were in actuality only in existence for a short period of that time frame (late 1000's to mid 1100's).

Lastly, no matter what time period they were born into, a samurai would learn what he was told to. This was dependent upon the Daimyo that he served and the family he was born into. It's much like asking what a person in the United States is expected to learn today. The answer would be reading, writing, and arithmetic. Of course, everyone's proficieny in those skills would be different, and many, many other things can and will be learned depending upon ability, social status, and desire. The samurai were all expected to know horsemanship, archery, and swordsmanship. However, just like today, their profiency in these things varied widely, and there was a plethora of other arts that could be learned depending upon a multitude of influences.

This is how I've come to understand things. Others opinions may vary.

Cheers,

[Mr. Donigan]

PGSMITH is very right. And I wasn't kidding about Musashi and his interest in painting, tea ceremony, and poetry. I would reccomend to all of my fellow kenshi to explore other areas of Japanese art. I think you would enjoy it.