Shinai Oil

[Raígma]

Maybe there is a thread about the kind of shinai oil but if there is one I didn´t find it. Sorry then.

A guy from the dojo told me to lay the staves of my shinai in water for a few hours I did so. I even sandpapered it before. Before a few weeks I had to cut away a huge part near the saki-gawa and I turned the staves 180° to prevent that stave from cracking more. (180° possible only because of oval grip)
Now I realize that there are still some splinters and I will have to sandpaper it a bit again. I guess I need oil.

By the way... after hitting near the Nakayui the staves jammed in each other. I sandpapered the edges yesterday, do you think that´s enough to prevent that?

Now to the question. Do I have to use special oil or am I allowed to use natural oil out of the kitchen, too?
(olive oil? sesam oil? or even oil for metal?)
I don´t have that shinai oil here and I think I should really oil it.

Thank you.

[qpuppy]

Raigma... who ever told you about leaving it in water is a not a great idea, beacuse water dries up quickly... that is why oils are used.
You can use any sort of oil, even cooking oil. But I recommend Linseed oil. It is a thin oil so it can soak it right into the shinai, and yet it doesnt dry up as quickly. Shinais splinters is because lack of mositure in the shinais.
My advice is if you need to oil it.. pull you shinais apart, and use some cotton bud and apply it on the inside of the shinais.. give a nice amount of it... and then leave it for a couple of days. use cotton sticks to move the oil around about once a day, because the oil will slowly collect it at the deep end of you shinais where each partitions of the bamboos are. (oh make sure you have shaved and sandpaper all the splinters away). Couple of days later, find a rag you dont need and wipe off the excess oils and a good wipe on the out side part of the shinai too (with oil of course). By now, you will find the shinai abit shiny, and once you put it back together, you will notice it's is slight heavier, This is because of the oil.
Now, it should be fine. give it an oil about once a month or two.. then it should last you for a while.

Cheers

[Sinta]

My sempais told me to use sunflower oil to oil the shinaii. Unlike some oils, sunflower oil doesn't smell. There are also other factors why sunflower oil is better......but I fergot *blushes* :D


Well, it's works just fine for me:)

[KhawMengLee]

I use an ancient family secret formula, dated long ago when the first kendoka in our family picked up a shinai...which is about 2 years ago...heh

I mix olive oil and baby oil(60/40) together and soak the shiani overnight.

[Raígma]

Hmhm... but he did tell me that the balance and flexibility would get better if it is soaked with water. Of course he told me to oil it afterwards. He said that it would be necessary because here in germany the air isn´t that humid as in japan. Many of you said that it is a good idea to store it in the bath where it is humid.
Seems like a kind of shock therapy. I´ll tell you how the shinai reacts.

I will do so now. Thank you.

[kendomushi]

immersing the shinai in any liquid for more than a few seconds is a bad idea. You have no way to control the absorption & the weight is likely to increase & the balance change at random. Just sand and liberally oil the staves inside & out over a few days.
As to the staves jamming, that is usually a matter of incorrect tension on the tsuru & nakayui.

[Kuri]

Originally posted by Raú„ma
Maybe there is a thread about the kind of shinai oil but if there is one I didn´t find it. Sorry then.

I'd advise you to look at this threat for lots of hints on how to oil and maintain your shinai.
http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=330&highlight=shinai+oiling

[Neil Gendzwill]

If you use linseed oil, be sure to use boiled linseed oil. Untreated linseed oil will just make a sticky mess.

Plain old vegetable oil works fine. If you do complete immersion, only let it soak for a day or so. If you just coat the take, let them sit for 2 or 3 days.

Many people prefer thinner oils like gun oil (no blueing, please), sewing machine oil or lemon oil. You can also buy special oil from budogu companies, never used it myself.

[Phlebas]

I have found that sewing machine oil is quite good -- it's a light oil so it absorbs quickly and evenly, and it doesn't smell at all. I live near a "sewing machine hospital" so it's easy and cheap for me.

[Marine_Boy]

Hey meng, are you sure that's all you do with the baby oil!:p :cheerful:

Myself, I use linseed oil. But do we only oil the inside of the staves, what about the outside?

Stan

[Phlebas]

Oh yes, make sure to oil the outside of the staves. I have been told that several applications of oil over the course of a few days is best. Then wipe off the excess and re-assemble the shinai. Make sure to do this last step or your tsuka will absorb the surface oil and eventually fall apart.

[KhawMengLee]

Hey meng, are you sure that's all you do with the baby oil!

WHAT!!?! THEM's FIGHTING WORDS BOY!...hehheh

shhh...don't let the cat out of the bag of the secret massage parlour I opened in Soho...:D ;)

[Marine_Boy]

:bandit: so Meng where is this parlour of yours? Do I get a discount?:D

stan

[nodachi]

How about canola oil? Is it okay, or is it a bit heavy? I used it once, very sparingly because I wasn't sure if it is okay to use or not, and one of my club mates told me that my shinai was a bit heavy. I don't really notice, but I don't want to use it again if it will only make things worse.

[KhawMengLee]

There was a thread somewhere about this. I remember someone saying that after a while vege. oil dries up and crystalizes(not) good) and baby oil doesn't...hence I mix the two.

[Raígma]

Okay I broke 3 shinai in one week.
No I don´t think that is good. It just shows that I am to weak to
bend my kote the right way and to hit high enough. I hit mengane all the time.

Getting my new shinai soon I asked this guy again what to do with a new shinai.
Sure he told me the usual. A bist sandpapering and so on.
But he still wanted me to lay it in water for a night and to oil it immediately after taking it out. (There was the failure the last time).
The shinai gets soaken up by water this time so it stays humid but it doesn´t dry out because of the oil which is "wrapped" round the staves.
He owns many weapons and I kind of believe him. It seems logical to me.

What do you think about that?

[alexpollijr]

Okay I broke 3 shinai in one week.

You're Conan The Barbarian. That is probably a new record. I hope you're rich.

Anyway, aside from the jokes, you must correct this habit immediately. Hitting mengane all the time means that, to this day, none of your Men blows were valid/correct, and that's bad.

There's little use to oiling and sanding if you hit hard and against hard metal.

[Raígma]

I doubt I´m Conan. There are people hitting much harder than me. Only two of the shinai were useless afterwards.

I will look to correct this. Thank you

[Chusan]

Breaking three shinais within one week is indeed quite unusual.
Maybe there`s a tendency of hard-hitting in your dojo?
Anyway: oiling a shinai is not necessarily the best way of shinai-caring. Some shinais need some oiling, others not. Sandpapering a shinai isn`t always correct, neither: since you literally destroy the outer structure of the shinai-surface while doing so, it may be the reason for shinai-breaking.
Well, you`re German, so you might find some reasonable suggestions on my German site http://georgmackowiak.tripod.com/chusan/id1.html
go to ´wie man ein Bambusshinai pflegt`.

BTW: Stuttgart? Jo Lippold still around?

[Raígma]

Didn´t hear of someone called like this.
A year since I´m there.

Thank you for the link.
No, there is no hard-hitting in my dojo and I care for not hitting so hard. It´s really the technique. I´m not Conan.
I have to get used to the more unflexible Kote at my wrists.

Sandpapering has been important to me because the staves stuck in each other after hitting to low. I rounded the staves and it got better.

[Raiza]

Originally posted by nodachi
How about canola oil? Is it okay, or is it a bit heavy? I used it once, very sparingly because I wasn't sure if it is okay to use or not, and one of my club mates told me that my shinai was a bit heavy. I don't really notice, but I don't want to use it again if it will only make things worse.

I used canola when I first started but have gradually switched over to corn oil because it is a bit lighter as far as vegetable oils go and I like the durability and reliability of the veggie oil approach. I find there's a small but perceptable difference in weight between a canola-oiled shinai and a corn-oiled shinai. After one year of regular training all three of my shinai have held up fine since I started coating the take, no cracks whatsoever. It's not a big deal if you've sparingly oiled your shinai only once with it while I have liberally oiled mine. As you use other, lighter oils during your regular oiling, the amount of canola oil in your shinai will gradually decrease over time. In the meantime, just look at your canola-oiled shinai as a good way to increase your strength while training! :)

[kendo_chick]

I've heard that the best veggie oil to use would be peanut oil. I have yet to try it, but I usually use gun oil. I've only had 1 shinai break because it was dry in the almost 2 years I've been practising.

[Chusan]

Some twenty years of shinai-oiling (*g*) are now telling me that most oils are suitable. The one thing one should care about is that the oil does not contain any acids. Some machine-oils have acids inside as has olive-oil (olive? correct spelling?). I usually take the same oil that I take for frieing food in my wok :D

[ben]

I used to store my shinai in the bathroom ( the old "humid atmosphere is good" logic), however I found that this actually seemed to dry my shinai out more than usual. So now I keep my shinai away from water as much as possible.

Re sandpapering, I agree that it's not the best way of repairing shinai. Scraping with a sharp blade is much preferable as it cuts (as in *planing*) the shinai fibres rather than burring them. A flat blade held at about 45 degrees away from the direction you're cutting is best, otherwise horrific shinai injuries result.

Then I burnish the staves (with a piece of fine-grained softwood, but an old-skool coke bottle is just as good) to compress them and bring back a yellow gloss to the bamboo.

b

PS - Anyone know what kind of oil is in that spray "Shinai-yu"?

[Kendoka]

Shinais behave differently in different climates.

In Japan where humidity is high, a shinai may last longer than in a cold and dry Melbourne winter.

Maintaining a moisture level in the bamboo, that is then sealed will help longevity in a dry climate.

Soaking in oil is not logical, but sealing with oil is.

Bamboo is a type of grass, a high proportion of its natural weight would be water.

Ther are as many "right" methods of shinai maintenance as there a kendoka, it seems.

My method works for me, when ever I do maintenance on my shinai, I moisten it leave it for a while, wipe off the surface moisture, leave it for a while then seal it with boiled canola, or wax, or both, or a special sealing mixture.

8)

[Fraz]

Well I use gun oil but any oil is fine....

Light oil is better because it doesn't make the shinai soggy if you over saturate it.

If you take are still sticking after sanding and oilling I've heard if you run a plain (non-coloured candle) along the edge of the take it'll help reduce sticking....

http://www.edinburghkendo.co.uk// (Edinburgh Kendo Club) In the Misc/Manual links there's a section on Shinai maintenance That I wrote...:)

[Fraz]

Oops. That link doesn't work... Try this one...
Edinburgh Kendo Club (http://www.edinburghkendo.co.uk//)

[Confound]

What exactly is shinai oil? There are a few bottles of it at school, hidden in the back of a cupboard. They're aerosol cans, and they smell pretty foul. One of them is rusted. Is it just treated linseed oil?

c

[burger boy]

I'm a big fan of canola oil.

Toss a little on a salad, toss a little on a shinai.

It's all good.

burger boy

[Chusan]

Originally posted by Fraz
[If you take are still sticking after sanding and oilling I've heard if you run a plain (non-coloured candle) along the edge of the take it'll help reduce sticking...
Hmmm... And if parts of that falls down on the floor?
Makes some slippery (?) Dojo-ground, I guess...

[Fraz]

I said I've heard of it... Doesn't mean I've done it...:p :)

I would guess you only run it lightly, If big clumps of wax are able to fall to the floor i'd say your using too much..:)

[Ben F.]

Here is something that worked for me: I took a piece of PVC tubing about 2-1/2 to 3" in diameter and as long as a shinai minus the length of the handle, capped and sealed one end.

Filled that with about 1-1/2 quarts (sorry for the non-metric measurements-we are still backward in the US) of sesame oil. Dunk the shinais, let them drip most of the excess oil back into the tube and then let them sit for a couple of days. Most of the oil was absorbed into the shinai quite nicely.

The oil cost me around $16.00 US and the PVC was less than $10 US so it is relatively cost effective. I had to oil up 10 shinai so the PITA (pain in the a**) factor was certainly a lot less than taking all 10 completely apart, oiling and reassembling.

[Phlebas]

:eek:

You didn't disassemble the shinais before dunking them?? You may find that the leather parts will disintegrate if they absorbed a lot of oil. If you DID disassemble them, even if only the leather and string were removed, I'm not too sure I understand how the "tube method" saves time. Do you just tie the staves together with wire so you don't have to take out that square metal thingy at the base of the handle? That might save a few minutes per shinai. Please elucidate -- this method seems like it might be faster if I ever have _dozens_ of shinai to oil, and the extra money.

[Ben F.]

Sorry! I should have been a little clearer. I took the sakigawa, nakayui and tsuru off but left the tsukagawa on. I just dunked them up to level of the top of the tsukagawa. I did NOT get the leather parts oily; I at least knew enough not to do that. I have done this same thing, just oiling up to the level of the tsukagawa, with all my shinai and they end up lasting quite a while with careful trimming and sanding, of course.

[hammock]

i personally dont like disassembling my whole shinai... after many dissassemblies, and reassemblies, it seems that the staves dont fit together as tightly, and the leather is stretched.

this then results in a "loose" shinai, with all four pieces rubbing against each other and making noises... doesn't feel like "one" unit. just doesnt feel as nice swinging that around.

im gonna try the pvc method, cause that may solve my little pet peeve.

[m_french]

Ben- I made the same contraption myself, ahh..the wonders of Home Depot. But sesame oil??? thats gotta smell like dinner, do you lull your opponents with the smell of shinai, nd while ther recalling the kung pao chicken from the night before sneak in a quick ippon?? as for the gentleman who soake his shinai in water before oil, since water repells oil I doubt you acheived much benefit from phase II. personally any light based mineral oil will do :beard:

[Karrion]

Ok, shaving with a blade is better than sanding. What about using a small plane or a spoke stave?


Karrion

[Kendoka]

Originally posted by m_french
Ben- I made the same contraption myself, ahh..the wonders of Home Depot. But sesame oil??? thats gotta smell like dinner, do you lull your opponents with the smell of shinai, nd while ther recalling the kung pao chicken from the night before sneak in a quick ippon?? as for the gentleman who soake his shinai in water before oil, since water repells oil I doubt you acheived much benefit from phase II. personally any light based mineral oil will do :beard:

Some shinai makers use boiled canola to seal the shinais, if it is good enough for them ...

Yes I soak my shinais in water first, but as I wrote, I let the surface dry prior to sealing.

[Nishi]

I strip the shiani down, and sand the edges off each of the staves so that they are rounded and dont smash against each other when you cut. I find most of the early cracks are due to staves catching each other, so shaving/sanding these edges off is worth while. Next shinai you get, take it apart and feel the "V" shaped edges on the sides of the shinai... they must go!! This will provide a well rounded edge that woulnt catch.

First i take the shiani apart completely, then i apply linseed oil(only a teaspoon per stave), the type they use for cricket bats (not the sticky stuff). And then i leave the shinai over night, usually the staves will be bone dry by morning. Then i complete the sanding process described above, as well as a light sanding over the entire stave. Then i apply liberal amounts of oil, this time about 2 tablespoons per stave. and stand the shiani up right against a wall (oil is messy be careful), next day turn the shiani upside down. Then again on the next day and then again for four days. Most of the oil will be gone, but you can see it saturating from end to end on the shinai until its gone. A quick wipe over with a dry cloth, and your ready for re-assembly.5 days in all, but well worth it.

This process can make my shinai last up to a year (2 shiani rotating 3-4 times a week).

[Ben F.]

m_french: Man! My secret is out! Many an unwary victim has been lured in by what I call the "Kung Pao Pow." Now the truth has been revealed and I probably won't win another match.

Might have to switch to olive oil and work on an "Italian Stallion" technique. Hmmmmmm...

[m_french]

I concur ben the power of the food inspired waza can be very effective on the unsuspecting undernourished kenshi :beard:

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by Karrion
Ok, shaving with a blade is better than sanding. What about using a small plane or a spoke stave?

This little widget is the best darn thing there is for shinai maintenance: http://www.e-bogu.com/keshacmcs00001.html

[Ben F.]

m_french: Man! My secret is out! Many an unwary victim has been lured in by what I call the "Kung Pao Pow." Now the truth has been revealed and I probably won't win another match.

Might have to switch to olive oil and work on an "Italian Stallion" technique. Hmmmmmm...

[m_french]

Is there an echo in here?:beard:

[Ben F.]

Sorry for the double post. Sorry for the double post.