First day in Bogu (Sempai must be mad!)

[Sinta]

Okay I'm just opening this new thread for people to talk about their first experience training in a bogu....which I had last night.

This thread is also called "my sempai must be mad" due to the fact that he actually thought I was ready for it last night ^_^ There I was, expecting to train with the beginners/people who didn't have any bogu on.

Here comes my trainer,he smiles and lets the huge bag land by my feet *whomp* "Here, train with this." It was a club bogu. I stared at it then at him then back at it then back at him..."you're kidding." Nope he wasnt. When I got all ready (with a lot of help from people who pitied me :) j/k i meant from friends ) I didn't think it was too bad. I didn't notice the difference in weight. The Bogu was though a bit too big for me, especially the do, because the sides were jamming rather annoyingly against my arms during the chudan kamae stance.

...and then we started training! I swear I never thought the Men would become a cave of heat. Sweat just dripping from my brow down my cheeks (or was it tears?), I could hardly hear anything except me breathing. All the time cursing myself for thinking I was up for kendo and that it was the sport for me. Kendo? Is this really what I wanted??? thoughts like that ran through my head as a I tried a kirikaeshi with a bit of a stumble (if you haven't guessed, I'm a rather small person :) ). Whatever I learned before, I had to relearn in the bogu. I felt like I wasn't doing anything right.

...and then came the final YAME.

As I was removing the bogu I stared at the hellish invention and felt proud. I survived! I did it! It was hell, but it was my chosen hell ^_^ I'm not only proud that I pushed myself enough to go to kendo yesterday and was willing to practice, but also practice in a bogu. I felt ecstatic. Of course there was the problem of dragging the 6 kg of armour home with me, but I didn't think about that as much yet.

.....okay okay, I know what you're all saying... "beginners... *huff*"

[qpuppy]

Firstly... Congrats on completing to the next level of Hell.. hehhe.. j/k

It's great to hear you keeped up with the training... With the do.. yeah.. it does feel funny with the do on.. at first it feels like you arms is been lifted in mid air (felt like i was walking in a "macho man" style.. with massive arms - i actually have skinny arms... :p) I remember when I first wore my men... It was... S@#T!! my ears hurts, oh man.. I can see.... My glasses fogged up (left with a thin line of vision) and yes.. each hit on the men was like a thunder hit to the head.... (Ouch!! Ouch!!) and I also had to constantly adjusting my men.. because my ears hurts (b/c of me glasses) but yes.. anyway.. congrats on getting your bogu... ;)

cheers

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by Sinta
All the time cursing myself for thinking I was up for kendo and that it was the sport for me. Kendo? Is this really what I wanted??? .....okay okay, I know what you're all saying... "beginners... *huff*"
We lose a lot of people just after they get bogu because the experience is so completely different from the unarmoured training. For some meeker souls, it's not only the extra physical effort but the fact that all this theoretical swinging in the air is now translating into actual fighting. "Hey! He's actually hitting me! And I'm supposed to hit back?" I believe that's why you see a higher proportion of women in iaido compared to kendo.

At any rate, please don't give up! It gets easier, honest. The only advice I can give you is to be sure to talk to your sempai or sensei if you have any trouble with the fit of your bogu or with pain. Old club bogu sometimes needs a little extra padding.

[Sinta]

Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill

Old club bogu sometimes needs a little extra padding.

That said, I can't wait til mine comes in from Japan. I have a feeling the club bogu is a bit too big for me. It jams itself against my arm, I can't seem to hold a relaxed chudan kamae stance.

Thanks for the encouragement, Neil :) I doubt I'll quit. I mean I got this far. I just hope what you say is true, that it gets easier. Hopefully I'll get used to it.. but even if not... try and try :) rather go slowly than to completely stop.

[Neil Gendzwill]

If you're OK with the aggression, with hitting and being hit then you're OK. If your only problem is just how hard it is physically, that will improve with training.

Just remember that kendo is not about winning or losing, it's about learning the kendo spirit. That spirit can be summarised in three words: Don't. Give. Up.

[Sinta]

Thanks for the encouragement Neil. I have no problem with the agression; hit and be hit. It's something though I have to get used to *rubs the kote* but I have no problem with it :) It's just physically I guess. I'm more a person for dancing or in Martial arts, Tai Chi/Wing Chun. You can guess I'm a rather small person (well compared to those in my kendo Club :) ) I don't have much arm power.

I had my second day in Bogu yesterday and had my first jigeiko (sp?) It was a new experience. Of course I was always defending and trying to get a hit in there (somewhere). I keep trying to think about all the moves I learned and put it to use... Is that a mistake? I have a feeling, I should've just gone with instinct, attack and not always think of what to do next. At least I've learned that I'm not very strong in jigeiko yet :) and that I keep holding myself back (hopefully things will change next time ^_^ )

I got the spirit. I've had it since I was 12 (7 years ago). I just wish I had the physical strenght for it... ah well, practice practice...

[nodachi]

"Of course I was always defending..."

Everyone new to bogu should hear this advice, and whoever told it to me from the forum, thank you, sorry for not remembering, must be too many hits to the men, and I continue to try and follow it:

No blocking for you. Only attack.

Just attacking more and more is teaching me a lot at this point in my training. Maybe it will help you too.

[nollaig]

"No blocking for you. Only attack. "
I think that that should be the motto for all
kendo

[m_french]

To block or not to block???
As Asai Sensei says at our Dojo, Only block if you intend to use it as part of your attack (suriage-waza). This is great to build confidence and speed (my opinion, for what it's worth).

[moocow65]

haha. i barely remember my first day in bogu. i think i was 8 or something. all i know was that my men was on too tight and my head hurt alot. i also remember on one of my first days of bogu, practicing with the two guys from my dojo who were on the USA men's team. that was fun. i kicked their butts by the way, with my katate tsuki, followed by a yokomen, and ending with a thunderous gyaku do.

[Old Warrior]

"As Asai Sensei says at our Dojo, Only block if you intend to use it as part of your attack"

If blocking is out and you are not the fastest kenshi on the floor- does that mean there is no hopefor me? I know ducking is frowned upon and backing up is not great.

Although my tone is light, my intent is serious. I'm a relative newcomer (and not a youngster) and I can't (yet) outhink all my opponents or make use of superior timing. If I don't block, I might as well be the target we wheel out for practice. I try hard and attend class 3 nights a week, but after 4 months my alternatives are realistically limited. So the recomendation is...?

[alexpollijr]

Still attack. Even if you hit them after they hit you, you are still learning.

Besides, certain types of attack rely on timing rather than on speed alone (e.g nuki Do).

You'll learn nothing from blocking, and will be hampering the progress of your training partner as well, in a sense.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Old Warrior, you're still thinking about winning. That's not the point of jigeiko. You're trying to improve, not win. So don't block, attack.

Watch your distance. Especially if you are slower, it is important that you maintain good distance until the attack. Good distance meaning, tips touching or farther. If you are too close, anyone who is faster than you can beat you. If you are at the correct distance, you can beat someone who is faster by surprising them with a pressured attack. This is called "seme" and is the saviour of old slow guys everywhere.

[Old Warrior]

"This is called "seme" and is the saviour of old slow guys everywhere."

I can always use a new "saviour", the old one hasn't been doing me much good lately. But, then, I'm alive so I guess I shouldn't complain.

About this thought that I'm thinking about "winning" - not really. I am thinking more about "not getting hit" than "attacking". I believe this is because I (rightfully so) lack confidence in my skills, particularly the footwork and the ability to cover ground. In European fencing I enjoy a very fast lunge, for a big guy, and you fence on a narrow strip, so your opponent can't run away (let alone get past you). In Kumdo, the kids go flying fast, turn around and come flying at you again. I do much better when I get in their way and fight at close quarters.

Also, at distance there is no way I'm going to hit anyone until they get in close. My mind is doing a calculation as to what I should do to avoid being hit, so I can have time to get in my own cut. It seems to me I'm always doing entirely too much thinking. I agree, I would be much better off just letting it all hang loose and see where it takes me.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Don't worry about getting hit. Just worry about your own attacks. Also, bear in mind that you learn the most from a practice with your sensei. Practice with kids or with your adult peers is mostly just fun. Practice between beginners usually degenerates into a crapfest because it gets competitive right away and neither side is presenting a proper target. Practice with your sensei is instructive because he usually is trying to teach you something. You can't hit him unless he lets you and he can hit you whenever he wants - so the best plan is to settle down, give him your best kendo and try to go where he leads you.

[Old Warrior]

Neil - I have not as yet had the opportunity to be pummelled by Master Seong. All the students I have spoken with are terrified from the experience. I have seen pictures of these sessions and for some reason the kids wind up un the floor. He is a relentless Kumdo machine. When he gives a command during class and 1st demonstrates, his speed is beyond spooky. The thought of facing him with nothing in my arsenal but the basic skills he has taught me is kind of hard to even comprehend - but I'm ready to try. My biggest fear would be what happens when I screw up and hit him too hard in a non target area.

[Caleb]

I know exactly what that feels like. The problem with early beginners in jigeiko is that when you cant hit an opponent, the younger student degrates his skill, and uses dirty fighting so he can actually get a hit. 9 times out of 10, the kendoka never gets anything better than he started with, and alot of times just ends up worse. I read recently "Zen in the Martial Arts" and it had a chapter in there about shortening your line. It explains what I think every one goes through at one time or another about facing more advanced students. Thats whats happening now in my kendo career anyway.

[Paul Phillis]

It was a bit different in my club (a small australian uni club) in which the bigginers run through a 14 or so week course (starting one hour a night 2 nights a week, and working upto 2 hours 2 nights a week).
In the beggining of the course begginers wear no armour. After a few weeks they move into tare, then do, then kote, then men(a few weeks before end of course), so we dont really have a first time in bogu but a first time in full bogu, and i agree it is damn hard work but in my club i am fairly sure that anyone still there by then didnt quit(i am temporarily short of money so i cant aford to pay club fees :( but as soon as i get a job i will be back to training).

[-Miburo-]

everytime when you put on your bogu, you've to do it neat... that's the problem i kept encounting cause my do or men himos kept falling off or they are not tied properly.. and my punishement was haya suburis.. it is hell.

[Shiro]

My very first experience in a bogu wasn't all that bad since they made me train with the yudansha. The first one to hit me was my sensei, so I recieved only clean hits.
The week after that, they made me train with the beginners....... :)
That was painful, but they got better :).

[Fenix]

I had one class where we tried training with the bogu, (except with the men) just basic swings and fumikomi etc...When we first got the bogu (club bogu) oh man..the smell!!...it was terrible.
For me, I could really feel the difference in how much more difficult the regular drills were, not to mention it was extremely hot.
Kamae felt a little better since my arms had a tendency to rest on the do, is that supposed to happen? I also found that i had to adjust my grip alot because of the kote, and my tare kept on moving to the side. One of my biggest problems was hitting kote, i always feel that im gonna hit too hard...and from the start position it seems that when doing the hit i go in too close and the tip of my shinai is past kote distance, thus always missing. Hopefully this wont be a problem later on.

It was an interesting experience, but i could have done without that foul smell =p

[Swissv2]

hahaha

My friend is from Japan, and he says that in middle school they have Kendo as one of their Physical Education stuff. He says that they hate doing kendo due to the stinky bogu smell. lol.

Unfortunately they can't pick and choose what PE art they do (i.e. Judo, etc etc) so a few guys will always get turned off by the bogu and not do Kendo. At that point its better to have your own bogu cause at least you are used to your own STINK :P

*note* maybe this policy of not being able to choose has changed, maybe it was only for my friend's Japanese school. The statement was not a general statement.

[taganahan]

my own theory about kendo is, it doesn't get easier, it just gets harder, but you'll get used to it.

first experience in bogu was very memorable. i got bruises and lumps on my head to remember those by. also, wearing the men makes me feel like wearing a toaster. how much more this summer..."must try not to get a heat stroke" lol

~taganahan

[bullet08]

Neil - I have not as yet had the opportunity to be pummelled by Master Seong. All the students I have spoken with are terrified from the experience. I have seen pictures of these sessions and for some reason the kids wind up un the floor. He is a relentless Kumdo machine. When he gives a command during class and 1st demonstrates, his speed is beyond spooky. The thought of facing him with nothing in my arsenal but the basic skills he has taught me is kind of hard to even comprehend - but I'm ready to try. My biggest fear would be what happens when I screw up and hit him too hard in a non target area.
hmm.. the idea is.. you cut the man (sabumnim? sensei?) as he cuts you. don't think too much, don't think at all. just concentrate. when you see the shinai coming at you, just react and trust your feeling. don't worry about being hit. react.. you will cut him as he will cut you.. that's the ultimate.. what's the word.. form?

by the way.. it might help to do 1,000 cut morning and night.. just shomen uchi. drill that move in your heart. just cut when you are being cut down.

[dualwielder]

you need to be calm in the bogu. that way you wont boil in your own sweat.

[amanharan]

my first experience in training in the bogu will come august 29, although i'm still a true beginner, my sensei wants me to begin training with the bogu early, so i can develop the basics without having to relearn it all in the bogu, from this point on in my training it will be doubly hard, learn the basic and immediately translate it into working with the bogu. he has been working with me one on one to get some of the more essentials down ( ie putting everything on in a timely manner...proper storage during keiko...etc) he suggested getting a pad for the inside of the men, what do you guys think? if you have used pads for the men, what did you use? i was kindof thinking for a cheap efficient pad, a piece of camping foam set to protect my head.

Aman

[YAMAFELL]

I like the smell of my club bogu. Most people can not stand the smell of kendo, but I miss it when I am not playing. (for example now for summer break.) My bogu does smell bad, but I find confort in it. I think it is because I only look like a big blue blob with a black belly and a small blonde ponytail hanging out. So it is a way for me to concentrate and forget about my life, and play and learn...

My first time in bogu was without hakama and doji, just the bogu and my warm up clothes. (There is a picture of it on my old webpage from my first few months in japan.) That was maybe a week of visiting. Then I got hit all over so I could see how it felt. I didn't think it hurt at all. Maybe I think Kote is the worst hit when they get you right on the bone.. over and over and over during kihon. But anyway, Maybe 3 weeks after that i was practicing in full bogu with the other new comer getting taught by a person from the club during their free time.

It maybe took 2 months for me and the other exchange student to join normal practices where we were lining up with everyone and doing everything the same. (We only sit out when we know the practice is too difficult, but then we watch to improve.) I have greatly improved during this time, and I am amazed by what I have learned. Kendo rocks. ^_^

[Hai_hai]

what did you use? i was kindof thinking for a cheap efficient pad, a piece of camping foam set to protect my head...
You might want to get a men pad from a kendo store. The foam you want should have some shock-absorbing capabilities. Not too much compression, not too hard.

[Wout]

This thread is also called "my sempai must be mad" due to the fact that he actually thought I was ready for it last night ^_^ There I was, expecting to train with the beginners/people who didn't have any bogu on.

I didn't think it was too bad. I didn't notice the difference in weight. The Bogu was though a bit too big for me, especially the do, because the sides were jamming rather annoyingly against my arms during the chudan kamae stance.

...and then we started training! I swear I never thought the Men would become a cave of heat. Sweat just dripping from my brow down my cheeks (or was it tears?), I could hardly hear anything except me breathing. All the time cursing myself for thinking I was up for kendo and that it was the sport for me. Kendo? Is this really what I wanted??? thoughts like that ran through my head as a I tried a kirikaeshi with a bit of a stumble (if you haven't guessed, I'm a rather small person :) ). Whatever I learned before, I had to relearn in the bogu. I felt like I wasn't doing anything right.

...and then came the final YAME.

As I was removing the bogu I stared at the hellish invention and felt proud. I survived! I did it! It was hell, but it was my chosen hell ^_^ I'm not only proud that I pushed myself enough to go to kendo yesterday and was willing to practice, but also practice in a bogu. I felt ecstatic. Of course there was the problem of dragging the 6 kg of armour home with me, but I didn't think about that as much yet.

.....okay okay, I know what you're all saying... "beginners... *huff*"
heh well it's not the best season to start wearing bogu :p or maybe it is, if you survive the summer you'll survive anything :)

in a few months you wont find anything more fun than training in bogu :D (although I like kata's a lot too)


I do recognize a few things in your story, my do also seemed to big but actually if it would fit close to your body it would hurt a lot if you got a hit their, because it would press the do in your ribs, now there is some spacing.

Don't worry about feeling that you have to relearn every move or excersise like kiri-kaeshi in bogu, it's just getting used to the extra stuff around your body, after a while you'll find the moves you could do without bogu back. It's more remembering than relearning.

"I could hardly hear anything except me breathing"
that's why they say "control your breathing" ;) but pulling it open behind could also help.

[Legio]

I have no problem with the agression; hit and be hit. It's something though I have to get used to *rubs the kote* but I have no problem with it
I FEEL your pain literally...hehe. I just got my bogu and today was my third class in it (still didn't put on the men as per the instruction of sensei). Boy... do I have a HUGE bruise! I was motodachi and everyone including sensei participated in painful kote hits... of course I tried not to show my reaction but in my head I was saying "ouch.. ouch". I also tried not to show fear as sensei was coming in for a hit..LOL. I was somewhat embarassed for improperly doing the wazas sensei was teaching us; but as it took me months to get used to the basic techniques (and still trying to get rid of bad habits) I expect no less from wearing the bogu... back to the beginning I guess.

When my mom saw my bruise... she looked at me funny. I can tell she was thinking, "how can you consider getting hurt fun." My dad just laughed at me...hehe. I asked him to put on my kote so that I may let him feel my experience... he refused..LOL.

To the more experienced: Do you eventually get used to the painful hits? I know that when I put on my men... it will be even more difficult. Do you get bumps on your head? Would you recommend the wrist protector or just toughen up and take the hit?

[Legio]

Ooops... I just realized the thread is quite old..hehe.

[Yann]

My first time in bogu was yesterday night, and it was great !:smiley:
First we were taught how to put on the bogu and how to remove it properly, then we did a couple geikos (we were 2 young men and one sempai (holidays)). It was very cool even if the men I was given was too big (and the tenugui was coming in front of my eyes).

Actually I thought that wearing the bogu was something harder, or more annoying. Yes it is annoying at first with the mengane and you don't hear well, but when you're in geiko you forget these, it's enough to look at your oponent and to hear the kiais.
And btw it was hot, but not as hot as I expected (ok I guess that a full lesson wearing the men is another thing).
As a conclusion, it was a great experience !

[KoXinelle]

I like the smell of my club bogu. Most people can not stand the smell of kendo, but I miss it when I am not playing. (for example now for summer break.) My bogu does smell bad, but I find confort in it. ^_^
looooool :D How long have you been practising Kendo?? I felt myself putting a disgust expression on my face when I read you LIKE the smell of your bogu before I started laughing really bad!!
I realized I like the smell of horses (horse sweat, stables, leather etc...) and I was wondering if it's only because it becomes familiar and full of memories of achievements, lots of memories of pain too!!! I think it's part of what you are (no, not only because the sweat in the bogu comes from you :confused2 ).
Maybe someday I'll like the smell of my bogu too... as if it wasn't enough for the horses !!