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Paburo
12th March 2003, 08:55 PM
miyamoto musashi fought against sasaki kojiro on ganryuu island.

according to some sources, kojiro created a special technique called tsubame gaeshi (燕返). a technique of changing direction of cut rapidly. some say the name came from slicing tsubame(swallow bird) in middle air. some say he called it tsubame gaeshi cause it resembled the movement of the wings/tail in flight.

BUT, some other sources claim that kojiro didn't really came up with it, and that that technique is some kenjutsu technique that was popular at the time, called kosetsu (虎切).

according to the description i got, this technique was a first feint draw/attack(to make opponent go backwards), followed by a quick change in direction of the cut without returning to kamae.

(the closest thing i've seen to that is seitei kesagiri at full speed.)

now the question is, which version is most likely the right one? was tsubame gaeshi a copy of kosetsu? does anyone know how kosetsu/tsubame gaeshi waza really looks like even??
Marine_Boy
12th March 2003, 09:45 PM
In the second set of kashima shinryu kata, the last one called enbiken draws out an attack from the opponent by cutting kesa and holding the katana in an offence / defence stance. This prompts the opponent to cut the katana away. But before he does that, our sword is taken away, around the head (like a swallows' flight) and cuts men. The timing of this doesn't allow our katana to stop so it goes like: cut, draw out opponent, return cut.

You really have to see it to fully understand what I've said.

Hope that hasn't confused you.

Stan
mingshi
13th March 2003, 05:20 AM
This is a Japanese page with a few brief intro on famous swordsmen.

http://www.hyoho.net/index01c.html

Section of Sasaki Kojiro as follow:

越前宇阪の庄、浄教寺村の人。富田勢源の家人となり、 幼*より兵法の稽古に励み、勢源の打太刀をつとめるま でになった。勢源は一尺五寸の小太刀をもって、三尺余の大太刀に勝つことを心がけていた。小次郎は常に大太 刀をもって、勢源の短刀に対し、まずまずの技能が*っ たという。勢源の弟子の鐘捲自斎より小次郎宛に伝書が *るということから、自斎の門人ではないかともみられ る。その後、小次郎はさらに勝つことを工夫したので、 高弟達も小次郎の太刀先に及ばな*なった。そこで、勢 源の門を出て、自ら一派を立て、巌流と称し、諸国をめ ぐった。豊前小倉にやってきたおり、細川忠興に招かれ 、兵法指南をするようになった。やがて同国に宮本武* が現れ、巌流島で決闘し、闘死した。
　燕返しという技で*るが、これは、小説の中で生まれ た技のようで*る。巌流には、一心一刀、虎切という技 が*り、これを小次郎は使ったようだ。一心一刀は、大 太刀を上段にかざし、拝み打ちにし、かがんだなり、上 より*る前に担ぎ上げるように斬り*げて勝つもので* る。虎切は、右より振り、左より振り、右より振り返す 刀法で*る。この太刀の素早い返しを燕返しと表現した もので*ろう。

My English is too bad to translate this though... :p
hamish
14th March 2003, 06:24 AM
There's also a Hoki ryu technique (the basis of the ZNKR kesa giri) similar to Yoshikawa's description of Sasaki's technique, and he was also rumoured to have studied about Hoki ryu before writing the novel.

But, who knows, its a pretty basic technique, cut up as you draw the sword and then cut back down, and its mostly fiction anyway!
Marine_Boy
14th March 2003, 06:11 PM
One of the Kashima batto-jutsu techniques does involve drawing the sword, stepping forward whilst in one fluid motion cutting up and down in a kesa motion.

But I don't know what this is called...

Stan
Marine_Boy
14th March 2003, 06:11 PM
One of the Kashima batto-jutsu techniques does involve drawing the sword, stepping forward whilst in one fluid motion cutting up and down in a kesa motion.

But I don't know what this is called...

Stan
Maasharu
1st February 2004, 04:04 AM
I signed onto this form just to post something on this thread. I found it as I was searching the web to see if there were any Nodachi or O Katana with replica koshira as that of Sasaki Kojiro.



An actual tsubame geashi is done in thus way: bring sword up to Jodan position, swing downward on 45 degree angle kesagiri and do not let it completely stop as you flip the blade over and cut back up the same 45 degree angle with kiriage. Thus ends the attack its one fluid motion of down and up. Of course on tatami or goza (for tamashigiri) one cut must be higher or lower than the other. Otherwise you cut only air.



If you intend to perform the attack as well as Sasaki Kojiro, you must become able to make the kesagiri very low and come back up to cut the severed piece in two. As legend goes Kojiro cut a bird from the air, to practice his attack to perfection you must then cut tatami in mid air. This is done by making the first cut low and then cutting what has already been severed. By careful though a bad kiriage turns already severed tatami into an aerial threat to whoever may be close by.





~Maasharu