Entitlement ...

[pgsmith]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.


That's what we hear all the time. That's what we all grew up with. I personally believe that it is absolutely true. Everyone has their own opinion based upon their own experiences. However, and there's always a however, not everyone's opinion is equal! Too many people (usually young and inexperienced) assume that since they are entitled to their opinion, it has the same weight as everyone else's. This is not true. Everybody's opinions are weighted by their expertise and knowledge of the subject, as well as the amount of experience that they bring. Many people have a very hard time understanding this. They feel that since they have an opinion, and they always do, that it should be heard and listened to. These people often get upset when they are dismissed out of hand as not having enough weight in their opinions to make them worth listening to.

I think that the world would work a lot better if those with knowledge and experience would contribute where they can, and those without knowledge or experience would try a little harder to learn.

Just my opinions, others may vary. :)

[LNGUYEN]

Alright gentlemen,

I want you listen to REFFEREE. I want a clean fight, no low punch.

LET GET IT ON

[Hank]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.


That's what we hear all the time. That's what we all grew up with. I personally believe that it is absolutely true. Everyone has their own opinion based upon their own experiences. However, and there's always a however, not everyone's opinion is equal! Sure, I think it's easy to agree to this. Everyone can have an opinion, but whether the opinion is right or wrong is a different matter.

I've been practicing iaido for 2 years and kendo for a little less than 1 year. I don't answer any technical questions unless they're about tying your keikogi. There are many more people on here who are much more qualified to answer technical questions than me. I do wish the people just starting out would refrain from trying to answer - it just looks stupid.

Hank.

[drizzt]

you know, there was an easier way to say this(IMO LOL).....opinions are like asshole, everybody has one and most of them stink


You have those you discussed, then you have the ones who beleive the only opinion the world is entitled to is the one that agrees with theres. Thus you get the great debate ending statements of "im right, you wrong, and no amount of logic or evidence is going to stop me from trying to make fun of you"

[LNGUYEN]

Serious though,

It is better to have opinion with heavy weight than just open the mouth and say something stupid. Since the forum means no one seeing anyone that make people think they can say anything they want. Don't they know that if you don't get the hidden respect, how can you get a real respect from people surround you? Does anyone know the real meaning of Hachi-Kyu Sensei?

[Andou]

Most definetly. I think it's really important to have an opinion on things. Things that you are knowledgable at least. I've done my best to pass on any information that I've come across to anyone willing to listen. I mean...I'm not even graded yet so I'm not sure if anyone will really take anything I say seriously; but, I'll give what I can. And as far as this goes... all I can say is that there are some guys around that're giving 16/17 year olds a really...really bad name.

[Neil Gendzwill]

all I can say is that there are some guys around that're giving 16/17 year olds a really...really bad name.
Naw, more like confirming our suspicions.

[DarQik]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

...However, and there's always a however, not everyone's opinion is equal! Too many people (usually young and inexperienced) assume that since they are entitled to their opinion, it has the same weight as everyone else's. This is not true. ...

Just my opinions, others may vary. :)I agree, disagree, and agree, repsectively. Allow me to share my opinion on opinions... :)

All opinions have the same weight--none; they are not physical.

Opinions are judged by the recipient. It is up to the recipient of the opinion to determine it's value and correctness. A recipient draws on their knowledge, experience, and the opinions of others to form an judgement of a given opinion.

A completely wrong opinion formed by someone with no knowledge may seem plausible or even correct to someone with the same level of ignorance, yet it will be obvious to someone with experience and knowledge of the matter.

For example: A 17 year old might think that some 16/17 year olds are giving them a bad reputation, and use the opinions of some others to support that opinion. Some of us older people may use our experience and knowledge to recall that we may not have been very bright while we honestly though we were great at 16/17. Likewise we can use the opinions of others with experience and the expression of the opinions of those 16/17 year olds to confirm such an opinion. ;)

[Neil Gendzwill]

Someone once said something like: "When I was 17, my parents were the dumbest people on earth. They magically got a whole lot smarter when I was 25."

There are very few people more offended than a 17 year old who feels he's not being treated like an adult. Movies and TV are full of dumb parents and the kids who outsmart them. That reflects reality about as well as movies and TV usually do.

I know I used to bristle when my dad would call his students "kids" (he's a college prof who usually teaches 3rd and 4th year courses). Now I see what he means. We're all works in progress, but until you're out of your mid-20s you're seriously under construction. Or as my dad puts it, "too soon old, too late smart".

[The great I AM]

Or as my dad puts it, "too soon old, too late smart".

I like this, thats good. I'm gonna plagerise your dad.

[Washington]

Someone once said something like: "When I was 17, my parents were the dumbest people on earth. They magically got a whole lot smarter when I was 25."

the version i know is " the older i get.. the smarter my parents become " .. been cracking me up for years since i first heard it

[Andou]

I guess most of us here have good parents. I do. I know for a fact that a lot of kids around here take their parents for granted. But then, I know some of the parents around here don't even deserve it. It really makes me wonder how some kids with terrible parents turn out to be some of the nicest people, but some with the nicest parents turn out to be terrible people. I suppose that kids with bad/no parental guidance learn lessons out for themselves, but I don't know...I just wonder how some people turn out the way they do.

[Denker]

I could say that I just throw my opinion out there for it to be corrected, because I'm so willing to learn and all... But that would be a lie, now wouldn't it? :)

[mingshi]

Yeah I agree.

But still, that doesn't mean people can ignore the importance of using proper grammar and legible spellings (and I am not talking about occational typos). I treat KWF like a quality restaurant. The opinions are all food for thought, but please don't serve it on broken or dirty plates. It decreases my appetite and I'll complain without tasting the food.

Here's my comment as a spelling detective. :rolleyes:

[drizzt]

Bit arrogant to assume that five years of life makes you somehow superior to those younger than you, isnt it?



Oh lord, the spelling Nazi's have arrived.

[pgsmith]

The opinions are all food for thought, but please don't serve it on broken or dirty plates. It decreases my appetite and I'll complain without tasting the food.
I'm going to steal that one Mingshi! I like it.
Bit arrogant to assume that five years of life makes you somehow superior to those younger than you, isnt it?
Not superior, just more experienced. A kid that is 10 years old understands things a lot better than a kid that is five years old. This is due to his five extra years worth of experience. What makes you so sure that this changes just because it's 15 and 20 or 20 and 25 instead of 5 and 10? :)

[drizzt]

I'm going to steal that one Mingshi! I like it.

Not superior, just more experienced. A kid that is 10 years old understands things a lot better than a kid that is five years old. This is due to his five extra years worth of experience. What makes you so sure that this changes just because it's 15 and 20 or 20 and 25 instead of 5 and 10? :)

then again, that extra five years of experience may have no impact on valuable life experience. Your making an assumption you cannot guarantee the validity of. In reality, that five years has no bearing whatsoever on most peoples opinions, or there ability to make them. As I said, its a bit arrogant to assume the superiority of age is a fact and not a theory.

[Neil Gendzwill]

then again, that extra five years of experience may have no impact on valuable life experience. Your making an assumption you cannot guarantee the validity of. In reality, that five years has no bearing whatsoever on most peoples opinions, or there ability to make them. As I said, its a bit arrogant to assume the superiority of age is a fact and not a theory.
Hee. If I may summarize, "I am SO an adult!"

Look, every generation figures they've got all the answers already in their late teens, and for each of those generations their parents are quietly amused at this. Why do you think this is? You figure every adult forgets how wise, informed and mature they were when they were 19? Or is it more plausible that we are all laughing at our former selves?

[Andou]

Hee. If I may summarize, "I am SO an adult!"

Look, every generation figures they've got all the answers already in their late teens, and for each of those generations their parents are quietly amused at this. Why do you think this is? You figure every adult forgets how wise, informed and mature they were when they were 19? Or is it more plausible that we are all laughing at our former selves?

After being around people that have corrected me so many times and are always seemingly right, I've accepted the fact that I am pretty much empty-headed in the ways of the world. So here I be, KWF! Feed me your knowledge!

[drizzt]

Hee. If I may summarize, "I am SO an adult!"

Look, every generation figures they've got all the answers already in their late teens, and for each of those generations their parents are quietly amused at this. Why do you think this is? You figure every adult forgets how wise, informed and mature they were when they were 19? Or is it more plausible that we are all laughing at our former selves?

Like I said, using age as a basis for intelligence, and for a variable in determining wether a hypothesis or opinion is correct is not only arrogant, but is scientificaly and logicaly unsound, and is more than a bit arrogant.

By your own logic, if you had to haver surgery performed tonight, you would rather have an older doctor operate, than a younger one, even though the younger may have a few hundred more of that particular surgery under his belt. However for you thats irrelevant, the older man MUST have more experience, simply because he is older.

See i have issues with reasoning like that, but i guess im just young and dumb huh?

[LNGUYEN]

You are talking about academic experience and it is totally different with life experience. When I was 18, I was involved in a fight which I would walk away. Now if the situation is the same, I would walk away. That means I am more experience than I was. Since I was 17 until now, I see so many "cause and affect" things that I am always think before saying something. I was not smarter than I was but I am more experience.

[Neil Gendzwill]

See i have issues with reasoning like that, but i guess im just young and dumb huh?
Not so much dumb as inexperienced. We were talking about life in general. But yeah, without knowing any specifics (like how many of a particular operation each has done) I'll take the older doctor, so long as he's kept up with things. I've dealt with enough know-it-all interns who screw up to realise that a medical degree is no guarantee - you need some experience to back it up.

OTOH there's lots of younger people who have stuff to teach me, too. Just because I'm older doesn't mean I know everything. But as the OP said, just because you have an opinion doesn't make it valuable.

[pgsmith]

Like I said, using age as a basis for intelligence, and for a variable in determining wether a hypothesis or opinion is correct is not only arrogant, but is scientificaly and logicaly unsound, and is more than a bit arrogant.
You see, this is just your opinion. You are young, inexperienced, and don't bother to proof read your posts before you submit them. Therefore, your opinions carry much less weight than Neil's since he is more experienced, and checks his spelling, punctuation, and sentence structure before submitting his post.

See how it works! :)

[Denker]

My opinions will obviously be less weighty than, say, a 40-year-old man's . . . But does that make my opinion wrong, or not worth listening to? If it comes to an ethical issue, if for instance the forty year old is a racist, narcissistic fool, I think my opinion might be worth listening to over his.

I am young and inexperienced, yes, but aren't there certain times when my opinion can be just as valuable as someone else's?

[Andou]

My opinions will obviously be less weighty than, say, a 40-year-old man's . . . But does that make my opinion wrong, or not worth listening to? If it comes to an ethical issue, if for instance the forty year old is a racist, narcissistic fool, I think my opinion might be worth listening to over his.

I am young and inexperienced, yes, but aren't there certain times when my opinion can be just as valuable as someone else's?

Only when something that doesn't involve life experience is encountered. Which is pretty rare...so I'm in the same boat as you are, man, you're not alone. Who's to say what credibility this 40-year-old man you speak of has? I mean...if he's an expert on the subject and is a reputable source, then his opinion does matter over mine or yours and a lot of people...be it as racist or narcissistic as he is.

[drizzt]

You see, this is just your opinion. You are young, inexperienced, and don't bother to proof read your posts before you submit them. Therefore, your opinions carry much less weight than Neil's since he is more experienced, and checks his spelling, punctuation, and sentence structure before submitting his post.

See how it works! :)

No see, you are a prude...nmind im not gonna fight with you. By your own reasoning, you win anyway.

Im just going to stop while im not angry, but I will say this. I've heard the excuse from one to many people that experience in life is everything.....and ive had one to many close calls with things going wrong becasue some "adult"(since a 20 yr old man is obviously not an adult) thinks they now what theyre doing. Im going to stop now, and pretend I havent realised just how arrogant some of the members of this forum are about there age and inteligence

[tattooedasshole]

No see, you are a prude...nmind im not gonna fight with you. By your own reasoning, you win anyway.

Im just going to stop while im not angry, but I will say this. I've heard the excuse from one to many people that experience in life is everything.....and ive had one to many close calls with things going wrong becasue some "adult"(since a 20 yr old man is obviously not an adult) thinks they now what theyre doing. Im going to stop now, and pretend I havent realised just how arrogant some of the members of this forum are about there age and inteligence
You're fighting a losing battle here. No matter how you try and skew it, to a very large extent age equals experience. Is this the be-all and end-all of it, no. There are cases where younger people will have valid opinions, however, the opinions of those with more experience far outweigh theirs. Why? Because, they aren't making their judgment on a few hours of understanding, but years. Which, in most cases, we of less age just don’t have.

[drizzt]

Your right im fighting a losing battle, but its more from the fact age=arrogance and not necessarily form age=experience.

I quit, yall are as bad as berugijin with hi "im right becasue i am" arguments in a religious debates.

[Anjin-san]

Yeah drizzt, everyone ELSE is crazy. Its funny how whenever you're wrong you always pull the 'you guys are so mean, you say you're right and I'm wrong and boohoohoo'. It's getting old...

I have to say I agree to an extent with the viewpoint that the older you get the funnier the young you becomes.

Take me for example, I did some STUPID, dangerous, crack-brained things while I was 19, and when I was 15!?!?!? I was the biggest loser dumbass I could possibly imagine! I sometimes I look back and can't beleive I'm the same person.

However at the time I thought I was money and could do no wrong. Which tells me that in 5 years I'm going to look back and say the same thing about when I was 20... guess all we can do is enjoy the ride :)

[drizzt]

Now your going to make fun of me? original....

[Anjin-san]

OK man, whatever you like :)

[tattooedasshole]

Your right im fighting a losing battle, but its more from the fact age=arrogance and not necessarily form age=experience.

I quit, yall are as bad as berugijin with hi "im right becasue i am" arguments in a religious debates.
I think it's time for some new meds.... :confused2

Stop, take a breath, and think for a second. Unless you've got some kind of matrix-esque way of getting info into your brain, age = experience is the only way it works. The only thing keeping you from realizing this is arrogance. If you're going gripe about people being arrogant, at least don't do it yourself.

The real unfortunate thing here is that you're really making yourself look like a right arse. Stomping your feet on the ground while yelling "I am SO a grown up!!!.” There comes a time to sit down, shut up, and listen to the guys who were your age before you were born. They just might know something....

[drizzt]

I havent stomped my foot on the ground or complained once. YALL are the ones claiming your own superiority, i havent made a single comment about myself being somehow superior. Like I said, Age=arrogance, and this is a prime example of it.....

Im seriously done now, im not replying anymore, im not acknowledging this thread exists, and I will not submit to anyones supposed superiority. I guess you guys will have to suffer my infiantile opinions or ignore me as well :). I think I might conduct an experiment on this idea however.

[The great I AM]

Dude, you've just basically spent the whole thread proving everybody else right. Read it all again.


You ain't doing teenagers any favours at all.

Man, people who are younger than oneself, never want to hear what you have to say, and people older than oneself are always "talking shit". Well, my man, thats the way it is pal! I'd get used to it. But, if we want to go by this whole age doesn't have anything to do with shit idea.....

.....how many young genius kendo teachers have you seen? Ever? And how many of the better teachers you practise with are much older? Think thats due to a sudden understanding? The whole thing becoming suddenly crystal? Or them using their EXPERIENCE as someone older than you and therefore has been around the block more times than you can imagine?

Gee, I wonder.....

but no, you're right. Everyone else is wrong. The fact that older people have generally experienced more than you means f-all right? I'm with you. No really I am. Please PLEASE PLEASE let me fight your corner! I love it! All you old bastards are So wrong! I don't care how long you've been around, how much you've seen and done, and much all of that comes together to create a generally more sensible picture, you're all arseholes!!!

Dam that feels good. I should tell more older more experienced people they are full of shit, I can see why you do it now....

[Andou]

I don't really want to get into any kind of debate or argument for that matter, merely just throwing a scenario out.

Let's say there's a man who's about 60 years old. He's lived a life of privilege and has been able to sustain a high standard of living without work (due to say...an inheritance maybe). And then there's an 18 year old who was born into poverty and yet still kept his dignity. As he grows older, he sees his surroundings turn exponentially worse, yet he keeps his head...working menial jobs until he gets up to manager of some store. Would you say the 60 year old man has more experience in life or the 18 year old? I know the unlikelyness of an 18 year old manager...but still...just throwing it out there.

If this thread is on the topic of kendo, I apologize...I just had this scene in my head and wanted to see what you all thought about it.

[Anjin-san]

I don't think it's realistic to have someone at the age of 60 who hasn't had to work in some degree towards maintaining their income. An inheritance will only keep you going if you know what to do with it, and over a large span of time,say 40 years, inflation alone will make it almost worthless. And after the security of basic sustenance, living a life of privelage isn't any easier, it's just different. A quote from some movie... "hand to mouth on a higher plateau"

But lets say yeah, there's a guy who's about 60 who's never had to do anything to maintain his income and sits around all day wasting time and through a magical source of income has someone else do everything for him... yeah then I'd go with the raised in poverty 18 year old. Moot point.

[pgsmith]

If this thread is on the topic of kendo, I apologize...I just had this scene in my head and wanted to see what you all thought about it.
The impetus for the original post was actually this board. In many of the threads there are young and enthusiastic posters tossing their opinions out willy-nilly as if they were fact. Then, when a more experienced kendoka issues a correction, they get all bent out of shape and emphatically state that they are entitled to their opinions.

I was reading through past threads as there are quite a few gems of wisdom out there. This same scenario came up several times so I thought I'd throw it out for general conversation.

I'd like to thank drizzt for stepping up to the plate and being a prime example! :)

[Andou]

...I think drizzt has left the forums. Well, that's after reading his sig.

But aside from this, I guess there will always be someone out there that has more experience than I do. I suppose it's just part of life that there's always something to left learn...even if it's trivial.

[Paikea]

Dam that feels good. I should tell more older more experienced people they are full of shit, I can see why you do it now....I picture you doing this with the straws up the nostrils, and smile a wicked, treacherous old-fart smile.

[Neil Gendzwill]

But aside from this, I guess there will always be someone out there that has more experience than I do.
Consider the alternative...

[The great I AM]

I picture you doing this with the straws up the nostrils, and smile a wicked, treacherous old-fart smile.

Actually, take a closer look at the pic, everyone is mistaken. Those were chopsticks....

[Satan]

Dear God,

thanks for not letting them live long enough to really understand.

[tattooedasshole]

I don't really want to get into any kind of debate or argument for that matter, merely just throwing a scenario out.

Let's say there's a man who's about 60 years old. He's lived a life of privilege and has been able to sustain a high standard of living without work (due to say...an inheritance maybe). And then there's an 18 year old who was born into poverty and yet still kept his dignity. As he grows older, he sees his surroundings turn exponentially worse, yet he keeps his head...working menial jobs until he gets up to manager of some store. Would you say the 60 year old man has more experience in life or the 18 year old? I know the unlikelyness of an 18 year old manager...but still...just throwing it out there.

If this thread is on the topic of kendo, I apologize...I just had this scene in my head and wanted to see what you all thought about it.
There are cases where the younger person will have more experience/better opinions. However, I'm quite sure they are in the minority.

[Mugu]

There are cases where the younger person will have more experience/better opinions. However, I'm quite sure they are in the minority.

Example: Children who live in a war zone has more battle experience than a trained soldier

[piggy]

Example: Children who live in a war zone has more battle experience than a trained soldier


Not always. Soldiers are trained to complete the mission. Children are trained to complete thier homework. Soldiers seek victory, children seek peace. Different mentalities, different motives.
They very well may know more about survival than a soldier but they differ very greatly.

[Wes Nazo]

Not always. Soldiers are trained to complete the mission. Children are trained to complete thier homework. Soldiers seek victory, children seek peace. Different mentalities, different motives.
They very well may know more about survival than a soldier but they differ very greatly.

What the hell are YOU talking about?! I think Mugu's talking about children who live in places like Somalia where they have child soldiers or something along those lines. These children don't seek peace, they seek survival.

[mingshi]

What the hell are YOU talking about?! I think Mugu's talking about children who live in places like Somalia where they have child soldiers or something along those lines. These children don't seek peace, they seek survival.
In addition to that, child soldiers are, most of the time, too innocent/ ignorant to be manipulated. They just want something to do in a gang (and obviously they have no school to go to). Or that they seek revenge for their family members who were victims of war. Besides, sometimes they may have been heavily doped to become fearless killing machines...

[Wes Nazo]

In addition to that, child soldiers are, most of the time, too innocent/ ignorant to be manipulated. They just want something to do in a gang (and obviously they have no school to go to). Or that they seek revenge for their family members who were victims of war. Besides, sometimes they may have been heavily doped to become fearless killing machines...

Issues about child soldiers aside, I just want to know what the phrase "Soldiers are trained to complete the mission. Children are trained to complete thier homework" was supposed to mean.

I think Mugu originally meant, was that some children who have grown up in war-torn regions and have only known war and fighting all their lives. Like a 12 year old Somali child who has handled an AK since they were 5 might have more 24/7 battlefield experience then, say a 21 year old trained soldier from Iowa. Unlike the 21 year old, war has been life for the 12 year old.

[piggy]

Issues about child soldiers aside, I just want to know what the phrase "Soldiers are trained to complete the mission. Children are trained to complete thier homework" was supposed to mean.



It was meant that children and soldiers are taught different values. Not all parents in Somalia give thier kids assult rifles to fight. Believe it or not, some parents actually want thier kids to grow up and be able to support themselves with a briefcase instead of a machine gun.

[Wes Nazo]

It was meant that children and soldiers are taught different values. Not all parents in Somalia give thier kids assult rifles to fight. Believe it or not, some parents actually want thier kids to grow up and be able to support themselves with a briefcase instead of a machine gun.

Maybe if you live in a bubble and assume all cultures are like America the world over. Did you even read the rest of my post?

[piggy]

Maybe if you live in a bubble and assume all cultures are like America the world over. Did you even read the rest of my post?


Yes, I did read the rest of your post. My word against your word. Even if a few children may have more war experience than a few soldiers, they are certanly not in the majority. Thats just what it boils down to in my opinion.

[pgsmith]

I don't think either of you have any experience with what you are discussing, so neither one of you has an opinion that counts for much on that subject! :)

[piggy]

I don't think either of you have any experience with what you are discussing, so neither one of you has an opinion that counts for much on that subject! :)


I have 4 family members in the military. I'd like to join myself but I have things I need to do first.