newb asking question about 2-sword technique

[jaggtagg]

ok, so i literally just started looking up some info about 2 hours ago when i came apon this site.
so hopefully some1 here can help me, some1 who is clueless with basically everything..

so what i am looking for is, as the subject says, a technique (or is is style??) of swordsmanship that uses two katanas.
im not really looking to learn to 'fight', but rather am intersted in learning, i guess reading about it more to learn exactly how one would handle two swords.

So, if any1 knows of a good place to start looking into this, a book.. i would greatly appriecated it. :))

[Mr. Donigan]

Musashi was the original 2 sword samurai. His book "Book of five rings" is about his ideas on the subject, but it might not be exactly what you're looking for. However, internet searches for his name is a great place to start. Besides if you want to learn about 2 sword tech. you need to learn about him eventually.

[stuartwilson]

Here is a link to a video about nito ryu.

http://www.e-bogu.com/KENDO_PRINCIPLES_IV_NITO_RYU_Two_Swords_Video_p/ebo-pub-vid-kp4--.htm

Note that learning this is not required for advancement in Kendo: it is an optional thing to study. Also note that it is not something you start with - the video probably assumes knowledge of basic principles.

[mad_god]

ok, so i literally just started looking up some info about 2 hours ago when i came apon this site.
so hopefully some1 here can help me, some1 who is clueless with basically everything..

so what i am looking for is, as the subject says, a technique (or is is style??) of swordsmanship that uses two katanas.
im not really looking to learn to 'fight', but rather am intersted in learning, i guess reading about it more to learn exactly how one would handle two swords.

So, if any1 knows of a good place to start looking into this, a book.. i would greatly appriecated it. :))

There is a great website about 2 sword techniques (history, lineages, techniques and application to Kendo matches) at www.musashikai.jp (http://www.musashikai.jp)
But you need to know Japanese, there is no English version.

[Greger]

ok, so i literally just started looking up some info about 2 hours ago when i came apon this site.
so hopefully some1 here can help me, some1 who is clueless with basically everything..

so what i am looking for is, as the subject says, a technique (or is is style??) of swordsmanship that uses two katanas.
im not really looking to learn to 'fight', but rather am intersted in learning, i guess reading about it more to learn exactly how one would handle two swords.

So, if any1 knows of a good place to start looking into this, a book.. i would greatly appriecated it. :))

Look for nito. Its fighting with a long and a short sword. Somewhat like fighting with katana and wakizashi.
I think you can even use it in tournaments!

[mystic_kendoka]

Musashi's style, Niten Ichi Ryu is quite different from Kendo Nito Ryu..
In Niten Ichi Ryu, you attack and defend with both swords, in Nito Ryu the long sword is for attacking, and the short for defending...

Niten Ichi Ryu is better for numerous enemies, Nito Ryu is designed for fighting one person...

IMHO the katana is too heavy to use akimbo effectively, there are much more effective akimbo styles in chinese martial arts...

[jaggtagg]

ok, so sounds like i need to learn about kendo first.

but i have one more question, AKimbo? what is that?
And just to clarify..
Niten Ichi Ryu was delvoped by this Musashi guy, and it uses both swords to attack and defend, which would be what i am looking for, but does it use two "long swords" or a short and a long?

thanks for all ur help! greatly appriciated. :)

[Hisham]

If it's Niten ichi ryu you want to know about, PM Hyaku, he's the expert in that subject as far as this board is concerned.

[mystic_kendoka]

akimbo=2 weapons, one in each hand

niten ichi ryu used one long one short sword, there is no (in my knowledge) art of using two long katanas..

[WolfofMibu]

to the extent of my knowledge musashi miyamoto's niten ichi ryu is the two sword technique of japan. long and short sword were used. never have i heard of two long swords being used

[kendonewbie]

I've read a little about musashis' style. I'll try to explain it as best I can with my limited knowledge. Anyone, please feel free to correct me.

Niten ichi ryu translates into something like "school of two swords" (could be wrong, I don't speak japanese). It appears to have been developed either towards the late 1500s, or the early 1600s. It uses a long sword held in the right hand and a short sword held in the left. I can't find anything about using 2 longswords. As far as I can tell from the book in front of me, the short sword was used for blocking, and the long sword was used to attack/counterattack. Its said that he developed niten ichi ryu after he noticed that when fighting, he would use the weapon/object in his left hand to block an opponents attack, then quickly move in and counterattack with the sword in his right hand. Again, I could be wrong.

I know jack about nito in kendo today, but i'm pretty sure its different than niten ichi ryu. Again, i'm no expert on this (i'm wwaaayyy on the other end), its just something I like to read about ever now and then.

[mystic_kendoka]

no, he says "swing shortly with the short sword, and widely with the long sword, that is the key to using two swords" you attack with both swords..

[pgsmith]

Anyone, please feel free to correct me.
OK!
Niten ichi ryu translates into something like "school of two swords"
Nope. Two Heavens Style is what it translates as.
It uses a long sword held in the right hand and a short sword held in the left.
Sorta. It is actually a one sword style that has some two sword techniques and movements. Several other koryu schools are the same way, but Musashi is a larger than life historical figure. Many plays, books, and movies have shown him using two swords, so people associate two swords with Musashi. The vast majority of Niten Ichi Ryu focuses on single sword work.
niten ichi ryu used one long one short sword, there is no (in my knowledge) art of using two long katanas..
That is true. There are a couple of schools that have techniques for utilizing two long swords in certain situations, but it is not something that is taught as a matter of course.

To jaggtagg,
Why do you not do your own research? Why are you asking people here to research for you? Google and read whatever you can find on the internet. Look for suggested reading and see what you can find in your local library. Get a good background of information going, then you'll be able to ask better questions and understand the answers more.

Just a thought!

[Hank]

Nope. Two Heavens Style is what it translates as.
Doesn't the ichi make it "into one"? As in "Two heavens into one"?

Hank.

[pgsmith]

Doesn't the ichi make it "into one"? As in "Two heavens into one"?
Yup! You are absolutely correct.
Thanks Hank. That should teach me not to post in such a hurry, but it probably won't! :)

[mystic_kendoka]

Doesn't the ichi make it "into one"? As in "Two heavens into one"?

Hank.

most.. correct translation would be...
the school that unites two skies as one

[pgsmith]

most.. correct translation would be...
the school that unites two skies as one
OK, did some quick research on it. Imai Masayuki Nobukatsu, tenth soke of Niten Ichi ryu, translates it as "Two Heavens as One school". I'll take his word for it.

Cheers,

[mystic_kendoka]

heaven is 天國, sky country
ten is just the first bit 天, so it should be sky..

but i guess heaven sounds better than sky..

[Angelfire]

just wondering; are there any Miyamoto swords (i dont know how many or who made them) around today?

[mystic_kendoka]

wat do you mean miyamoto swords? there are swords for sale that are miyamoto replicas..

[Kaoru]

Nope. There is no Miyamoto sword. The HNIR uses bokuto only. They use a lighter bokken than we do, and are not the same exact bokuto as ours.

Kaoru

[Neil Gendzwill]

I think he might have been referring to swords originally owned by Musashi. I think there's some in a museum somewhere, Colin would know for sure.

[kanyil]

I think that bokuto was kept in Taiwan by Chen-sensei, the HNIR menkyo in Taiwan, for quite sometime following WW2 and was handed back to the soke a few years ago. The event received quite a bit of news coverage in Taiwan.

[ScottUK]

Have a look at www.hyoho.com - it has some info about Musashi's bokuto...

[splice]

heaven is 天國, sky country
ten is just the first bit 天, so it should be sky..

but i guess heaven sounds better than sky..
No, 天 means either sky or heaven, not just sky. Look it up in a dictionary. By itself, it can read amatsu, which means heavenly. Then you have compounds such as 天下る (amakudaru) which means "to descend from heaven".

Imai Masayuki soke doesn't translate the name as "Two Heavens as One School" because it sounds better than sky, but rather because that's what the name means. I think this can be clearly understood from the gorinsho.


I think he might have been referring to swords originally owned by Musashi. I think there's some in a museum somewhere, Colin would know for sure.

Colin has said that one is on display at the Yamada Bujutsukan (the Shimada museum?). As for Musashi's bokuto, it is in safekeeping at Usa Jingu (shrine).

[ScottUK]

Is the bokuto in storage or on display at the shrine? If it can be seen, I'll have a looksee in March...

[splice]

Is the bokuto in storage or on display at the shrine? If it can be seen, I'll have a looksee in March...

You'd have to ask Colin for that one. They might even have a display of a replica and tell people it's the real one, while keeping the real one safe in storage.

If it's in storage, you can always ask nicely. Or if Colin is still in Japan, perhaps ask him to accompany you to the museum. It's all about who you know, right? :)

[Koalla]

Hey
I am new and when i saw this guy askin about using 2 swords i had a question of my own
what about 2 24 inch swords? what whould that be considerd as?

[mystic_kendoka]

Would not exist, but if it did it would just be called nito, as it uses two swords, but you will never see anyone with 2 24s...

[Koalla]

hmm allright. but if someone did use 2 short swords woulden't it be like using ratten sticks in a way?

[ScottUK]

No, you don't hit someone a thousand times with swords...

[Koalla]

hehehe allright allright

[Nespithe]

What about the two sword technique?

[ScottUK]

What about it?