Has the role of the wakazashi/shoto changed in Nito?

[KhawMengLee]

This thread is gonna tie in with the shoto in nito kendo so please bear with me:

I've been reading Diane Skoss' book, Sword & Spirit (Classical Warrior Traditions of Japan) Vol 2. There was an article the about Negishi-ryu shurikenjutsu, where Saito Satoshi (current head of the ryu) was talking about Yasuda Zenjiro's teacher Okamoto Muneshige(Otsuki-ryu).

Okamoto sensei was alive during the Edo period and was a member of the shinsengumi(pro-shogunate warriors) who were there to suppress dissent: The tenno-ha were the imperial loyalists who wanted to overthrow the tokugawas. Because of this position he held he was targeted for assasination and Satoshi sensei goes on to describe how he was ambushed by five tenno-ha.

Four of them were armed with katana, while the fifth had a yari spear. Okamoto sensei determined the spearman to be the greater threat so he drew his katana and cut down hard on the spear haft, so hard that the katana became imbedded in the shaft, thus immobilizing it. This allowed him to draw his wakizashi and dispatch the spearman. He then killed three other attackers with the same wakizashi and the fifth, who ran away, got a nice shuriken(note: the shuriken used by samurai are not the star shaped ninja thingies but more like throwing spikes) in his leg.

I'll put a qoute in here about the wakizashi:

"Incidentally, warriors truly concerned with being able to fight would generally choose a longer wakizashi as a companion to their katana because they knew they might have to actually rely on it. Therefore, they felt more comfortable with a longer one."

************************************************
This made me notice something about the shoto in early nito. I was watching the Showa Tenran Shiai (http://www.budovideos.com/shteshboxset.html) and I noticed the shoto during pre-war kendo was a lot longer than today.

SO this brings me to some interesting things/questions:

1) Was the longer shoto in pre-war kendo related to the practical use of the wakizashi in actual kenjutsu?

2) Why has the role of the shoto changed today to a weapon/tool to suppress or parry your opponent's shinai?

3) Why not make the shoto longer and use it as a scoring weapon?

Note: to read the shurikenjutsu article you can get the book here:
www.koryubooks.com

[mingshi]

Hmm. Actually I don't really understand how you can draw the use of Wakizashi together with Nito. You gave an example... but it is only of Wakizashi, and it has nothing to do with using both swords at the same time (?).

I could direct you to a few articles... but you can probably find them yourself at places like swordsforum.com The length of weapon is generally more associated with the situations when/where it should be used, eg. in confined space, or loss of long sword etc (and let's not forget your Tanto at your chest!). Kodachi is weared indoor all the time. In most armed Koryu there are Kumitachi (paired kata?) of Kodachi. People are well-prepared to use Kodachi alone, so it is not too surprising that one has to draw and depend their lives on their shorter sword.

In the case of Nito use in Showa Tenran... Was it at the Isshu Shiai section? I haven't seen that yet, but I'll try to make sense based on logic. Those Enbu were in 1929, 1930, and 1940. If you consider that modern Kendo rules of ZNKR only officially exist 50 years ago... I wonder if there was any rule on Shinai length at that times pre-war at all! Especially the length of swords is not standardized anyway.

To give a few cents to your questions:
Concerning the rules of Nito in Kendo: Do you know (or anyone else know) if the Shoto is longer or shorter than a real one? I don't know what you are comparing that with, since with my own Shinai I can compare it with Katana(?).

Note that Taito in Nito already has a shorter length comparing to a 39 shinai, as used in one-sword Kendo. I suspect there are two reasons for this (which I can think of at the moment): 1. Nito is considered an advantage comparing with one-sword Kendo, as well as having a longer weapon... so if you shorten the Taito length, apparently you have more equality in a match (?). 2. Shorter Taito is also much lighter, hence easier to control when your other hand is busy with the short one.

#2. Seriously I think this is the very reason why I think Nito Kendo is more to Sports Kendo than anything. Use of Shoto has gone too far from being a "weapon". None of those techiniques in Kendo Kodchi Kata #1-3 can be applied. All they do is parry, parry and parry, losing all the sliding motions, losing all the seme.

If Hyaku is interest maybe he'll say something on "actual Kenjutsu" based on some secret Nito Kata of his Ryu. :D Since we all have no idea what Nito would be like without all those cheap parry tricks. :D But I can imagine there are cuts that running to the neck and between legs. It would not be enough if it is just for parry.

As of "practical use of the wakizashi" and "use it as a scoring weapon"... If you ended up in Tsuba-zeriai, I can just do some Tsuki on you with my Shoto to score, right? That's way too easy.

P.S. Shurikenjutsu is also one of the features in Kobudo Enbu Taikai every year. I only saw that once on tape. It is difficult. If you don't have the sharp end thrusting onto the target, the whole thing will bounce elsewhere. Even the person doing the Enbu failed 40% of his throws.

[Marine_Boy]

Try this link to nito ryu kenjutsu. Quite interesting but the photos are really bad!

http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Pagoda/8187/Nito.htm (http://)

Stan