3rd World Naginata Tourny

[xvikingx]

So whos coming?

[Nagi David]

I am and as far as I know :

Belgium, France, Sweden, Csech republic, The Netherlands, Japan, New Zealand, USA and Brasil should be there and maybe Canada, England, Germany, Australia and others... will assist to the Friendship tournament.

I will be competing in the shikake odji tournament, the team tournament and the rythmical. Probably the friendship tournament too. How about you?

[GMason]

Will possibly England/UK/Great Britain be competing ???

[gill]

as far as I am aware most interested parties in the UK are tied up with the kendo world championships :(

[xvikingx]

Unfortunately just the rhythm part. I have not been tested yet so I can only compete in that part. I hope a lot of people will stay for the semminar.

[Nagi David]

xvikingx, I'll meet you in gigeiko during the seminar free practice if you want to.

Our complete team will be there for the seminar, and I guess most of the people who are coming would not mist this seminar for any reason.

About England, I just said <b>maybe</b>, as well as for Canada, Germany, Australia and others...

[xvikingx]

Alright, I look forward to it. I would appreciate the lesson. My name is Leiv by the way.

[Nagi David]

I wil appreciate the lesson too

[alch]

Me too me too! Looking forward to the whole event. But I still need to train lots and lots, just to get my ass kicked anyway. I'm sure it'll be worth the experience (and the money :ermm: ) though!

See you all there!

[xvikingx]

Nagi David< he he he... Dont think I can teach you much. I look forward to it none the less.

[xvikingx]

Alch, I look forward to sparring with you too. Must be relly expensive for all of you. I live in California and it is still going to cost me alot of money.

[Nagi David]

flight ticket is around 600 $ :mad:
and we just receive a message from the INF saying that the welcome party is not free anymore :(

But I'll stay a while in US to visit Natural parks, and it's always a pleasure to meet naginata practiser around the world

[xvikingx]

What the welcome party cost money too? The good bye party is $30 as well. I am pretty pissed with the USNF, they are not helping us out with the cost of this tournament at all. I makes me wonder why we pay them annual dues again. Well I hope you enjoy your stay in the states.

[R A Sosnowski]

Originally posted by xvikingx
What the welcome party cost money too? The good bye party is $30 as well. I am pretty pissed with the USNF, they are not helping us out with the cost of this tournament at all. I makes me wonder why we pay them annual dues again. Well I hope you enjoy your stay in the states.

If you have a gripe about dues and expenses, contact your regional rep.'s. This event is very, very expensive to put on. USNF is a non-profit corporation, but that does not mean it can carry deficits. Believe me, if they could pay for those parties, they would - I have attended several of the Board meetings over the past three years while this event was being planned.

FYI, The welcome party is free to participants of 3WNC.

It you feel that strongly about it, become a SCNF rep to the USNF Board of Directors, and see for yourself how the process works. Nobody is getting rich off of this.

Sincerely,
Raymond Sosnowski
ECNF Administrative Secretary, Historian and co-founder
Northern Virginia Budokai Executive Vice President
1998, 1999, 2000 Co-director, Guelph School of Japanese Sword Arts

P.S. I plan to be there - volunteering for the tournaments and attending the seminar and grading.

[xvikingx]

To say I was "pissed" was perhaps a poor choice of words on my part, but by no means did I imply that USNF was putting the money in their own pockets.
My gripe is not about the party being expensive, (I could care less about the party. I'm going for the practice) but about the overall cost of the tournament. The members of the USNF team are spending over a months rent to represent the USNF. If this were such a huge inconveniance, I assure you, the USNF Board of Directors would have most certainly heard from me by now. Maybe I just felt like bitching a little bit.
I am sorry, Mr. Sosnowski, that my gripping has offended you so greatly. Please note that I speak for myself, NOT the SCNF. You have inspired me to run for SCNF rep. next year. I look forward to working with you. Perhaps together we can take care of this problem for the next International tournament.

Leiv Harstad
SCNF
-(the guy with the blonde hair who helped out at the UNSF tryouts in Torrance)-

[Nagi David]

And I'm not complaining about the price. As I'm in the standing board reuinon of my Federation I agree it's difficult and expensive to organise such event and I hope for the organiser that everything will goes as they want to.
We had to organise the European Championship and it was a all year duty. But it's pure pleasure if everybody enjoy it.

[R A Sosnowski]

Originally posted by xvikingx
To say I was "pissed" was perhaps a poor choice of words on my part, but by no means did I imply that USNF was putting the money in their own pockets.

No offense taken. There is a long history of decisions made by the UsNF Board of Directors (BoD) that stretches back about four years to get to this point.

My gripe is not about the party being expensive, (I could care less about the party. I'm going for the practice) but about the overall cost of the tournament. The members of the USNF team are spending over a months rent to represent the USNF. If this were such a huge inconveniance, I assure you, the USNF Board of Directors would have most certainly heard from me by now. Maybe I just felt like bitching a little bit.

Given the list of options available on a number of items, the BoD had to choose one for each item. There were budget constraints, schedule constraints, logistics constraints, accomodating the Japanese visitors in a culturally acceptable way, and so on. Having sat in on some of those BoD meetings, and having seen all the correspondence and other paperwork, the Board collectively made decisions on various items given the operating constraints - compromises had to be made. This process was extemely time-consuming, involving the entire BoD - 5 officers and about 10 representatives from the various regional federations.

I recommend sitting in on the BoD meetings. It's an education in itself. Without the USNF BoD, there would be no official Naginata in the US.

I am sorry, Mr. Sosnowski, that my gripping has offended you so greatly. Please note that I speak for myself, NOT the SCNF. You have inspired me to run for SCNF rep. next year. I look forward to working with you. Perhaps together we can take care of this problem for the next International tournament.


No offense taken. My gripe, so to speak, is "ignorance of the history of the process." I personally know everyone on the USNF BoD - a lot of effort went into this event, and they had a very difficult job to do.

Of course, I do realize that you do not represent SCNF.

I believe that rep's to the USNF BoD serve for two-year terms, beginning with the new fiscal year (1 April 2003) after our biennial elections (8 March 2003), so we are about to begin a new cycle. How rep's are chosen is the choice of the individual regional federations. Check with your officers in SCNF on this. You may be able to serve at the next BoD meeting in June.

I look forward to meeting you, both in the Board room and on the mat.

[Nagi David]

I just receive the link to the official poster of this tournament :

http://www.naginata.org/inf/sj2003forms/INFPoster.pdf

it's getting closer....

[Marcia Toyohara]

Originally posted by xvikingx
What the welcome party cost money too? The good bye party is $30 as well. I am pretty pissed with the USNF, they are not helping us out with the cost of this tournament at all. I makes me wonder why we pay them annual dues again. Well I hope you enjoy your stay in the states.

The USNF _is_ helping out with the cost of the tournament. What do you think we have been doing all these months? What have you done to go out to the community to ask for donations, which many of us have done. Our job has been to find the most cost effective way to host such an event. A few key people in our organization have been working hard for several months to secure the cheapest rates for hotels, the venue site, food, etc. Where have you been? Historically the USNF pays for the party fees for the senshu - why should the USNF pay for anyone else? The INF historically has received large amounts of money from benefactors, which they did not receive this time. The INF has set the cost for the welcome party, not the USNF. If you only knew how hard we have worked to bring the cost of the entire event to an affordable fee for _all_ our members, I am sure you would not be 'pissed' with the USNF! Additionally, we are working our regular jobs, putting energy into the planning of this event, and training for the Taikai, as well as taking care of our families and other business. Please understand the enormous amount of energy and focus this has taken.

I invite you to attend our next Board meeting, which will be at the event. Ask your SCNF representative for details - the meeting is open to members. I would like you to see how much work has gone into making the event a successful one. Hopefully then you will realize what the USNF has done instead of complaining about what we have not done.

Marcia Toyohara
Executive Secretary, NCNF
NCNF Representative

[xvikingx]

hhhmmm.... Raymond Sanowski explained the situation to me once and now I understand completely. I also appologized for what I said... I am sorry that this is not enough for you. What more would you like me to do? What can I do to make up for being uninformed about this matter?

Leiv Harstad

P.S. Would anyone else like to jump all over my ass for what I said?

[Marcia Toyohara]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by xvikingx
What can I do to make up for being uninformed about this matter?

You caught me on a bad day - I had just pounded the sidewalk going to businesses door to door in San Jose asking for donation monies - I was the third person to hit them that week! Then to read your message about the USNF not doing anything to help out with financing this event rubbed me the wrong way!

Actually there is alot you can do to help the organization. You can talk to your reps about how you can raise donation money. They have all the info for ad fees, etc. You still have time - the deadline for all ads is April 30, not too late. We are accepting any kind of monies - if the party can't do a minimum biz card ad, then we will accept what they can donate. We will have an acknowledgement page in the program for other donors. You can also ask them for the e-mail addresses of the 2 people responsible for volunteer coordination, & volunteer to help out in some capacity during the taikai.

Believe me, asking for money is a humbling experience - I consider it part of my training!

And I also stand corrected. The Welcome party has historically
been paid by the INF with no fee to the senshu. This year, the
INF doesn't have the budget, thus they set the fee, even for the
senshu - the USNF did not set the party fee.

~m.

[xvikingx]

I understand completely. I am very sorry that I rubbed you the wrong way. I can understand where you are coming from. I am currently volunteering my time and raising funds for the JACCC and JCI. (Japansese cultural institutes...) Had I been informed about the situation I would not have said what I said. I also would have been more than happy to go out asking for donations. I knew nothing about this before this post. In fact the only time I here from the USNF is when they want money. So maybe you can kind of understand where I am coming from. Again I am sorry. I'll talk with my rep. on Tuesday and see if there is anything I can do to help out.

[Nagi David]

I do understand you, we have organize the European championship recently and I search for sponsors one year long. And none of them wanted to give any donation, some like radio station agreed to offer some advertise and a Budo shop offer us something but no money !! The problem is Naginata is not known at all !!! And to many company it as a violent image, so nobody want to put a sponsoring on a "violent sport".
I've receive so many negative answer that I really was pissed of, so I do understand you.

Did you make any tee shirt or other stuff that we could buy. I'm sure this will work, but of course the problem is you need a basic investment to do those tee shirt.

Anyway from here I can tell you that the US organisation for this event look really good. The application forms are clear and on the web. And my email contact with people from your federation is really efficient. If the rest is like this I'm looking forward to be there.

I send you some energy to complete your organisation ;)

[Marcia Toyohara]

Thanks for that good energy, David! We do appreciate your moral support! There will be product there that is going to be sold. As we are getting closer to the first deadline (4/30 for the ads), you can imagine....

I didn't think of letting all of you out there know that we are soliciting for Ads for the program, so if you'd like to place an ad in the program, contact me via e-mail.

It's good to get your positive feedback on what we have done so far. We hope to make this a memorable & good event for everyone, so we are putting our energy & focus on the workings of putting an event of this size together. I can't imagine if naginata were as big as kendo is, how it would be! The last kendo worlds were held in our area at a huge convention center arena! Naginata will be held at a University large gym!

As for asking for money....Here in San Jose is one of 3 surviving "Japan Town"s in the US. It is a nice and close-knit community, however, you can imagine how much they get hit for donations from everyone! Even though we in naginata have been around for ~20 years, we are still so small & not very visible. I get alot of "What's naginata?" & got into many conversations of explaining naginata to them. I got many replies of "is it an off-shoot of Kendo?" & of course would explain that & the history as well. Part of asking for money is educating the public as well! It sounds like I had a more receptive public than you did!

Your moral support is much appreciated!

~m.

[Nagi David]

I'm not really interested in advertise, I don't really have money for this.

Did you try those guys :

http://www.man-magazine.com

http://www.allblackbelt.com/

http://www.kendo-world.com/

I was wondering if it wouldn't be nice to mention some naginata web site addresses in the program.

I can give you a list of the site I know.

[Nagi David]

how about asking people their email address to create a INF world distribution list ?

I don't know who's administrating it, but I think we should re-design the official Naginata web site www.naginata.org

I'm ready to help on this

[Nagi David]

I saw on the new york web site that you are representing your country in the team tournament. Congratulation. I hope we'll have a chance to practice also.

I guess we may because you're also representing US in Engi.

I looking forward to learn from you.

for the moment I saw Egypt, Chile, Lithuania and Canada will have representative in the Goodwill ... any other surprises like this?

[Marcia Toyohara]

Originally posted by Nagi David
...for the moment I saw Egypt, Chile, Lithuania and Canada will have representative in the Goodwill ... any other surprises like this?

Egypt & Chile & Lithuania - these are people practicing in the US with citizenship still with their mother countries. I thought it was a positive way they could still fight by representing their motherland. Canada is a new renmei-in-the-making...they are trying to charter a new renmei via Canadian law, etc., etc. They will have some members come. I think someone from Brazil will fight in the Goodwill also, but I may be mistaken.

Regarding your recommendation on the websites - why don't you contact the webmaster of Naginata.org (Kurt Schmucker) - his link should be on the website - & give him your suggestions.

Thanks for the congrats - I got lucky, I guess (I think)! I look forward to engi with you too David! As for shiai, well as the song goes: "I'm a lover not a fighter!...."



:) ~m.

[R A Sosnowski]

The following message was received from the USNF:


Subject: 3rd World Naginata Championship and Seminar-June 2003 San Jose, Ca

Please link this 3rd World Naginata Championship and Seminar Site to your website and please do share with your community.

We've included additional SJSU [San Jose State University] dormitory information, schedules and application for the naginata seminar open to the public and a metrolink to San Jose area entertainment action!

We look forward to seeing you in San Jose this summer!

http://www.geocities.com/worldnagichamp2003

[xvikingx]

Thanks for the info...

[Henry Jones Jnr]

Hello there everybody!!!!.
Alas Alack. I canna make the Naginata World Cup because it clashes with the Kendo World Cup. This didn't happen last time. I protest!!!. This is descriminiation in it's most purile form, especially for those that happen to do three or four types of martial art. Besides my Naginata Sensei will beat me up for doing Kendo Arrgh. Seriously though, I know that you guys will have a lovely time (Don't worry about the lack of freebbies, we have to pay for everything as well). I wonder if Hamish is the sole rep for NZL????. Ali G

[Nagi David]

we'll expect you for the next one, and my finger tells me it will be nice too.

[Nagi David]

we've just received a letter saying that 7 country voted for maintaining the world championship and 3 voted against it.
So the championship will be held but will those 3 country be there or not...
I guess this is really disappointing for the American people who were involved in the preparation of that event.
In 2001 we've organized the European Championship and the Japanese sensei, who were supposed to come, cancelled their trip because they were afraid of travelling (after what happened in New York).
I guess they forget one thing, in 1995 their was a major earthquake in Kobe, but all the nations came to the world championship in Tokyo.

[R A Sosnowski]

Originally posted by Nagi David
we've just received a letter saying that 7 country voted for maintaining the world championship and 3 voted against it.
So the championship will be held but will those 3 country be there or not...


The status of teams from the three Nay-nations, Brazil, New Zealand and Japan, is currently unclear.

The INF tournaments, seminars and promotion exams are scheduled to take place as planned.


I guess this is really disappointing for the American people who were involved in the preparation of that event.

Disappointing is an understatement.

This whole affair came at the last minute during final preparations which ground to a halt while the final decision was dragged out.

This whole process has been four years in the making beginning when the USNF decided to make a bid for the 3rd WNC back in 1999, and was kicked into high-gear after the INF visit to San Jose in June 2001.


In 2001 we've organized the European Championship and the Japanese sensei, who were supposed to come, cancelled their trip because they were afraid of travelling (after what happened in New York).

Excuses, excuses. This whole affair is really going to throw cold water on any other nation's decision to bid on the 4th WNC in 2007, IMO.


I guess they forget one thing, in 1995 their was a major earthquake in Kobe, but all the nations came to the world championship in Tokyo.

One wonders.

See you there.

[Marcia Toyohara]

I'm not going to let this get us down! We're holding a Championship & it's going to happen!!! The strength of all the international renmei will come with their spirit & sword & will be ready to fight to the finish! Please adapt a different spirit with this. Alot is going on in the world today & we cannot let this aspect of the event pull the spirit of the fight down!

You are all warriors at heart, aren't you? If not, then why do naginata? It is times like this that we need to bring out our spirit the strongest.

Marcia

[R A Sosnowski]

Marcia,

That is an absolutely wonderful reply. If the essence of the old Naginata-do (less the nationalistic militaristic aspects) or "The Way of the Reaping Sword" can be said to live on, it certainly lives on here IMO. Kudos to all who plan to come and show up.

See you in San Jose. :D

Best,

[Nagi David]

don't worry Marcia ... we are coming to do more than our best.

my brother Jonathan spend 6 month in Japan to improve his Naginata.
Tyl and Francois, two of my student train 3 to 4 times a week and dream of this tournament for almost a year now.

And all the team is preparing a rhytmic Naginata since a few month, now.

[etherknot]

So any news about wether or not everything is still a go? I ask because some of us are confused and concerned that rumors of the Japanese not showing up due to SARS fears might throw the WC in jeopardy. :confused:

I'm still waffling on wether or not I'm going to make it down there even just to watch and hang out. Due to a financial error with my bank I basically couldn't afford to go back when the applications were still being accepted. Doh!

[R A Sosnowski]

All INF-sponsored events are on including the tournaments, seminars and Shinsa.

I have not heard offically about the disposition of the Japanese national team. If they do not show up, then they will not be a factor in the 3rd WNC. As I see it, it is their lose, not ours.

[xvikingx]

Thus far the Japanese team is still not coming. I doubt they will change their minds now and try to make reservations with only two weeks left. The tournament and seminars will go on with out them.

[etherknot]

phew! :D

[Jakob Ryngen]

The results for the 3rd Naginata Championships are still not up on naginata.org
Does anyone remember them?

[xvikingx]

Nagidavid wrote in another thread....

>As you know them here are the results :

Engi :

First : USA
Second : Belgium with François and Philibert
Third : France

Individual Woman :

First : Csech republic
Second : France
Third : Belgium with Annick

Individual men :

First : Belgium with Tyl
Second : Belgium with Jonathan
Third : Belgium with François

Woman Team :

First : France
Second : Belgium with Fabienne, Annick, Sandra
Third : USA

Men Team :

First : USA
Second : Belgium with David, Jonathan, François
Third : France

Goodwill dan :

First : Belgium Philibert
Second : The Netherlands
Third : Belgium David

this is all I remember<

[R A Sosnowski]

In correspondence from the USNF to my office as Administrative Secretary of the [US] East Coast Naginata Federation (one of the four regional Naginata Federations in the USA), dated 15 September 2003, I have the following lists of results:

3rd World Naginata Championship, 28 June 2003, San Jose, CA USA
Engi:

1st: USA - B. Mitchell & E. Montes
2nd: Belgium - P. Vandersleyen & F. Dermine
3rd: France - L. Delalande & D. Pouchard

Individual Women:

1st: Czech Republic - J. Soukupova
2nd: France - C. Parisis
3rd: Belgium - A. Henrotte

Individual Men:

1st: Belgium - T. Dermine
2nd: Belgium - J. D'hose
3rd: Belgium - F. Dermine

Woman's Team:

1st: France - S. Merieult, A. Guillaume & C. Parisis
2nd: Belgium - A. Henrotte, S. Vandvijver & A. Laurent
3rd: USA - M. Toyohara, D. Garrett & D. Payne

Men's Team:

1st: USA - M. Nobida, K. Saxton & R. Peterson
2nd: Belgium - D. D'hose, J. D'hose & F. Dermine
3rd: France - D. Pouchard, B. Esposite & M. Chamrier

INF Friendship Tournament, 29 June 2003, San Jose, CA USA

Women's Dangai:

1st: France - O. Vilain
2nd: Netherlands - J. Chin
3rd: USA - R. Takenaka

Women's Yudan:

1st: USA - M. Welsh
2nd: USA - Fran Vall
3rd: USA - K. Higaki

Men's Dangai:

1st: USA- E. Engalla
2nd: Netherlands - R. V. Houte
3rd: Australia - H. Jorgensen

Men's Yudan:

1st: Belgium - P. Vandersleyen
2nd: Netherlands - M. Berghaan
3rd: Belgium - D. D'hose


FYI, the webmaster for www.naginata.org relocated last summer from San Jose, CA, to a new job in the Seattle, WA, area. I suspect the he still is not fully unpacked. :D

[xvikingx]

Men's Dangai:

1st: USA- E. Engalla
2nd: Netherlands - R. V. Houte
3rd: Australia - H. Jorgensen


Kind of off subject but who is E. Engalla? Is he the short fellow who studies in NY with Yamauchi sensei?

[R A Sosnowski]

Kind of off subject but who is E. Engalla? Is he the short fellow who studies in NY with Yamauchi sensei?

Yes, that's Ellery. He was also Yobidashi with me for the 3WNC, and my roommate during our stay in San Jose.

He is a wonderful person, a very talented graphic artist by trade and Recording Secretary for the [US] East Coast Naginata Federation.

[xvikingx]

He is a wonderful person,...

True, he is a very nice guy. Thanks.