Religion yet again

[Toaster]

I have to say that I am confused. In my own beliefs, so much so that sometimes I just want to cry.... At the minute I am Christian, but I am beggining to believe in a lot of Buddhist teachings and aspect of other religions. The more and more I read about things I start to believe them, thought buddhism is the biggest thing I'm starting to believe in next to Christianity and in doing so I feel as if I am being sinful and putting shame on my upbringing. I even feel bad thinking these things, having to write this post. I feel a little uncomfortable discussing this with my parents, so I decided to bring it here.... I just need some advice. Please help me.

[T.Lee]

not my advice, but good advice:

Go and do more suburi

[Light Samurai]

I have to say that I am confused. In my own beliefs, so much so that sometimes I just want to cry.... At the minute I am Christian, but I am beggining to believe in a lot of Buddhist teachings and aspect of other religions. The more and more I read about things I start to believe them, thought buddhism is the biggest thing I'm starting to believe in next to Christianity and in doing so I feel as if I am being sinful and putting shame on my upbringing. I even feel bad thinking these things, having to write this post. I feel a little uncomfortable discussing this with my parents, so I decided to bring it here.... I just need some advice. Please help me.
Actually, this is a good thread. Your not bashing other religions.

All I can say is: Try being Buddhist. Your not 'sinning', since Jesus will ALWAYS forgive you.

Do you get what I'm saying?

In this aspect, the whople Christian religion is somewhat flawed.

Peace.

PS. You may want to try Omoto-Kyo, which has some hristians, Buddhists, etc. in it: http://www.oomoto.or.jp/English/index-en.html

[Toaster]

Actually, this is a good thread. Your not bashing other religions.

All I can say is: Try being Buddhist. Your not 'sinning', since Jesus will ALWAYS forgive you.

Do you get what I'm saying?

In this aspect, the whople Christian religion is somewhat flawed.





I know Jesus will always forgive me, but I do not want to exploit this, as following Christian teachings wouldn't it be bad for exploiting his good nature? Is it possible for me to be both Christian and Buddhist?

[Light Samurai]

I know Jesus will always forgive me, but I do not want to exploit this, as following Christian teachings wouldn't it be bad for exploiting his good nature? Is it possible for me to be both Christian and Buddhist?
Some say yes, others say no. I, for one, say Yes, you can try it out. But do keep in mind that Buddhism belives in Rebirth - Which you are trying to escape from. In Christanity, why not just cultivate beleif and go to heaven?

Just something to think about.

Peace.

[PatientDaruma]

If you wish to study Buddhism and still remain Christian, do so. You wouldn't be the first. Buddhism doesn't especially conflict with any religion. We don't worship and god, neither do we dictate that you can not if you so choose. The ultimate truth of Buddhism is finding your path on the Way. The Buddha taught that there are 84,000 paths, which is to say that everyone studies and practicies differently. Find the one that works for you and go with it. There will be no conflict unless you make it.

Namo Amidha Butsu

[bullet08]

religion is very serious/funny thing.

it all depends on where you put your faith in. if you truly believe in 'god', does it really matter which religion one believes in? 'god' is a 'god' no matter what. religion is just a man made system of...

my understanding is christian god is a loving god, and a forgiving god. i say god will not have any bad feeling in you trying out new religion.. tho your church might.

pete

[PatientDaruma]

You see, that's the thing. Buddhism isn't, in the purest sense, a religion at all. The Buddha wasn't a god, he was just a person that woke up. We don't worship him, we venerate his teachings, much the way we venerate our sensei for the budo they impart to us. Buddhism is a path of self-discovery, self-awareness for the good of all persons.

[Wes Nazo]

[quote=Light Samurai]In Christanity, why not just cultivate beleif and go to heaven?[quote]

...because that cheapens your belief and God will call you out for the fake that you are.

[Toaster]

You see, that's the thing. Buddhism isn't, in the purest sense, a religion at all. The Buddha wasn't a god, he was just a person that woke up. We don't worship him, we venerate his teachings, much the way we venerate our sensei for the budo they impart to us. Buddhism is a path of self-discovery, self-awareness for the good of all persons.

In that case, would you call buddhism a path? A way of life rather than a religion as such? I need to ask this (although it may sound stupid to some) but do you think God would be unhappy with me if I was to follow the teachings of buddhism as well as christianity as in the ten commandments it does say:
"Do not have any other gods before Me. Do not represent [such] gods by any carved statue or picture of anything in the heaven above, on the earth below, or in the water below the land. Do not bow down to [such gods] or worship them. I am God your Lord, a God who demands exclusive worship."

But if in buddhism it is a worship of teachings rather than a god then is this couldn't possibly be going against the ten commandments.... Either that or am I simply exploiting Gods' word and trying to find loopholes in the way he has expressed himself....

[Light Samurai]

[quote=Light Samurai]In Christanity, why not just cultivate beleif and go to heaven?[quote]

...because that cheapens your belief and God will call you out for the fake that you are.
Who says so?

I know many people who think they will go ot heaven just because they believe in some man, and they are believers, yet when it comes time to put what they believe into practice, it fails.

Peace.

[Wes Nazo]

I have to say that I am confused. In my own beliefs, so much so that sometimes I just want to cry.... At the minute I am Christian, but I am beggining to believe in a lot of Buddhist teachings and aspect of other religions.

It's good that you're truely questioning your beliefs rather than blindly following them. This can cause you to either turn away from your original religion or strengthen your faith, both are good in my opinion. I believe it's better know what you feel is the truth even if that truth may cause your faith to crumble. Be a freethinker.


...in doing so I feel as if I am being sinful and putting shame on my upbringing.

Of course. You're taught to believe through coersion and shame, which I believe is truely shameful. Not one person has ever tried to convert me to Buddhism.


I feel a little uncomfortable discussing this with my parents, so I decided to bring it here....

Not that they need to know now, unless you're trying to piss them off to rebel or something.

[Light Samurai]

In that case, would you call buddhism a path? A way of life rather than a religion as such? I need to ask this (although it may sound stupid to some) but do you think God would be unhappy with me if I was to follow the teachings of buddhism as well as christianity as in the ten commandments it does say:
"Do not have any other gods before Me. Do not represent [such] gods by any carved statue or picture of anything in the heaven above, on the earth below, or in the water below the land. Do not bow down to [such gods] or worship them. I am God your Lord, a God who demands exclusive worship."

But if in buddhism it is a worship of teachings rather than a god then is this couldn't possibly be going against the ten commandments.... Either that or am I simply exploiting Gods' word and trying to find loopholes in the way he has expressed himself....
Allow me to break this down.


"Do not have any other gods before Me.
The Buddha was not a God.

Do not represent [such] gods by any carved statue or picture of anything in the heaven above, on the earth below, or in the water below the land.
If the Buddha is not a God, why would it matter if you make a carved image out of stone? You see paintings of Jesus all over the place.

Do not bow down to [such gods] or worship them. I am God your Lord, a God who demands exclusive worship."
This is the hardest part. Simply don't bwo, and no one says you need a statue of the Buddha.

Peace.

[Joehannah]

I have to say that I am confused. In my own beliefs, so much so that sometimes I just want to cry.... At the minute I am Christian, but I am beggining to believe in a lot of Buddhist teachings and aspect of other religions. The more and more I read about things I start to believe them, thought buddhism is the biggest thing I'm starting to believe in next to Christianity and in doing so I feel as if I am being sinful and putting shame on my upbringing. I even feel bad thinking these things, having to write this post. I feel a little uncomfortable discussing this with my parents, so I decided to bring it here.... I just need some advice. Please help me.

:) hey. I'm right there with you, honest.

What helped me was just not being afraid to disect any religion I was considering. When it comes right down to it I take advice from Jessus, the Buddha and myself. What most religions come down to anyway is being unafriad, humble and good to people, so, don't sweat it.

Good luck, I hope you find some kind of balance, :)

Hannah

[Wes Nazo]

Who says so?

I know many people who think they will go ot heaven just because they believe in some man, and they are believers, yet when it comes time to put what they believe into practice, it fails.

Peace.

I say so. You also just stated the point I meant.

[Moe-KendoFreak!]

http://www.islam.com/introislam.htm try this site, it may help you decide.. :)... as for buddhism, it has 84,000 paths... in other words its a man made religion, and its all philosophy made by the human mind... and man made religions can only prove happiness in life, but not afterlife... its better to have happiness in both dont you think...
and i believe its good to question your beliefs as well, i read about alot of religions, and i got convinced by certain ideas sometimes, but whenever i think about islam i know it is the truth, its just flawless...



All I can say is: Try being Buddhist. Your not 'sinning', since Jesus will ALWAYS forgive you.

that is a little over doin it, dont you think..?


p.s. the black rags you see women wearing are also of old tradition (not islam), and are not neccisary

[Moe-KendoFreak!]

All I can say is: Try being Buddhist. Your not 'sinning', since Jesus will ALWAYS forgive you.
that is a little over doin it, dont you think..?

i meant ur twisting the words...

[Wes Nazo]

http://www.islam.com/introislam.htm try this site, it may help you decide.. :)... as for buddhism, it has 84,000 paths... in other words its a man made religion, and its all philosophy made by the human mind... and man made religions can only prove happiness in life, but not afterlife...

Assuming there is an after life and that's a pretty big assumption. Since there are literally thousands of very different gods, how can you be sure you are avoiding the wrong hell?

Oh and yours and everyone else's religion is man made. Everyone's a skeptic - about other religions.

[Light Samurai]

i meant ur twisting the words...
No, Jesus as portrayed by the Church, si saying "I will have open arms for you, until judgement." He WILL always forgive you, until the end of Time.

At least that's what Christanity says.

Omoto-Kyo simply says to practice faith, so that when we die, we will not go to the Lower Realm(s).

Peace.

[drizzt]

Discussing religion in a serious manner on this board is like giving little kids cigarette lighters and firecrackers and telling them not to play wiht them...............

I have no idea were light came up with what hes preaching.... nor most of you.

Moe, seriously man.....you dont make sense...

[Moe-KendoFreak!]

well i wouldnt want to get into a big dicussion, but there is something in islam not found anyewhere else... and yes there is an afterlife, how can there not be, think about it... really.. as for man made or not, if my religion is man made the it is compleatly irrelevent, but the thing is it CANT be, its too perfect... i could say more but im tired :)

[Moe-KendoFreak!]

i mean that how can a religion changed by man so many times be real! beleiving in its philosophy is one thing, but being a buddhist is another

[Anjin-san]

Man, I've been through the exact same thing inuyasha is going through. My reccomendation would be to quiet your thoughts and forget about what all these different religions are telling you, and decide what you believe based on your perception of the world around you, and the values you hold to be important. From there you may have a better idea of what you want to do next.

For me, I believe in compassion for those weaker then yourself, respect for those more experienced. I believe in learning all the time and constantly striving for improvement. I also hold myself to never initiating violence. I don't believe in anything that can't be verified logically, but am willing to assume certain truths for the purposes of operating in society. Add a healthy dose of carpe diem and thats my belief structure, personal to me and no one else, the church of Najaf. To practice this faith all you have to do is to hold yourself to the beliefs outlined above in everything you do. We don't take any conversions from other faiths. You have to be Najaf Ali to be a member of the church. So only clones of me are welcome.

Most religions have scope for interpretation so whatever religion you happen to be, deciding for yourself what you believe and aligning that with the religion you've been assigned to by fate may help you to find the inner peace you want. No conversion required! Guddo raku!

[Gregory]

Ok, lets go over this.

God is good, and loving and caring, and not human.

But God will get angry if you dont believe in him, if you arent christian, if you dont pray.

So God is guilty of a few of the sins:

Pride (God is the best ever)
Envy (Why isnt everyone Christian..)
Anger (HOW DARE YOU NOT BE CHRISTIAN!!)
Greed (EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE CHRISTIAN!)

Ouch.

The way I see it, God doesnt give a crap if you arent a certain religion, if you have sex before marriage, if you yell at your parents, etc.

I feel bad when I throw away a project I made, all that hard work is gone. How would you feel if you spent all that time making people, and threw them into a pit of fire en mass?

[PatientDaruma]

In response to Inuyasha's questiona couple of pages back, yes, you could call Buddhism a Way. In fact, the Buddha referred to his teachings as the Middle Path or the Middle Way. As previously stated, Buddhism is about getting to know yourself, and, as such, becoming more aware of how you interact and affect the rest of the world around you.

IN response to another previous post. The act of bowing in Buddhism is not a sign of worship, it is a sign of respect, much as we bow to show respect in the dojo. We bow to statues of Buddhas and saints as a sign of respect for their teachings. However, we also bow to people, out of respect for them, as we beleive that everyone is equally a coming Buddha.

Remember, religious conflict only exists if we will it. Do try to remember that the act of bowing to the front of the dojo originated in Shinto, where one would bow to the altar, to show respect for the kami housed there.

Inuyasha, if you really are interested in Buddhism, feel free to message or email me if you want to talk more about it. I rarely turn down a chance to talk about Buddhism.

Namo Amidha Butsu

[KhawMengLee]

I have to say that I am confused. In my own beliefs, so much so that sometimes I just want to cry.... At the minute I am Christian, but I am beggining to believe in a lot of Buddhist teachings and aspect of other religions. The more and more I read about things I start to believe them, thought buddhism is the biggest thing I'm starting to believe in next to Christianity and in doing so I feel as if I am being sinful and putting shame on my upbringing. I even feel bad thinking these things, having to write this post. I feel a little uncomfortable discussing this with my parents, so I decided to bring it here.... I just need some advice. Please help me.

Look mate, religions (all of them) are the same in essence. All this stuff about how one religion is wrong and another is right or that that belief is satanic is just marketing claptrap! The core of every religion is the wellbeing of our lives...in the end what we feel with religion is between God and us...

A lot of my friends in college were Christians. They would tell me things like 'any religion not embrasing Christ is satanic' etc etc. I would say, this, Religious texts are written by men...not by God. Saying one religion is wrong and saying that that is the word of the one true God is stupid. I mean can you imagine two God's arguing that they are the one true god? Not a very divine image is it?

I would say that Buddhism is not so much a religion but more a philosophy on life. Though today we pray to Buddha to guide us at the same time I think Buddhism has taught me to rely not so much on my prayers being answered but more-so to think of the philosophy of Buddha and how I can apply that to my life.

If you strip the Bible down to its basics, buddhism and the bible are much alike.

I think that you should live your life with the good in whatever religions or philosophies you encounter. Forget what the firebrands say! A person can be a Christian and a total jerk as well, just as a non-christian can be a good person without embracing Christ.

Do what you feel is right in your heart and your mind...

[ahmed61086]

Oh man, this is tough. If speaking ones beliefs is hard, Typing out ones beliefs is very hard.

Well, I just believe that their is One god. Pretty simple isnt it. One god that oft forgiving, most merciful, but punishes those who transgress.

The Idea of God is absolute. Their can be only one( no highlander jokes plz), and if you start putting God into plurality, then you can no longer be talking about God/gods, but something else totally.

So logically, one should believe in one god(in my opinion), and the only religion that preaches the TRUE ONEness of God is Islam. Thier is no trinity, no sons, daughters, mother, brothers, ect of God. Just God. And he is the most gracious and allmighty. The only one deserving of worship. Even in Islam, their are many ways to get in touch with god, it is not as linear as some would believe. So this is my opinion, and Im sticking to it.

Just putting my my opinion, isnt that what you want? Peace. Good luck, and God bless.

Ahmed.

[Wes Nazo]

So logically, one should believe in one god(in my opinion), and the only religion that preaches the TRUE ONEness of God is Islam. Thier is no trinity, no sons, daughters, mother, brothers, ect of God. Just God. And he is the most gracious and allmighty. The only one deserving of worship. Even in Islam, their are many ways to get in touch with god, it is not as linear as some would believe. So this is my opinion, and Im sticking to it.

Right. I'm going to assume you're Muslim simply because your parents were Muslim and you were brainwashed to believe what you believe. If you were born in a communist state, you might be an atheist because your parents were atheists, and they're atheists because the state told them to be atheists. Neither has chosen to believe (or disbelieve) based on their own logic and reasoning. Rather, they have blindly comformed to the beliefs of those around them.

[Wes Nazo]

Oh and everybody says their god is the one true god.

[KhawMengLee]

Oh and everybody says their god is the one true god.

That's called marketing.

[Wes Nazo]

That's called marketing.

One True God™

[KhawMengLee]

One True God™


does that come with fries?:eek: haha

[nodachi]

Salvation only comes to those that donate their loose change into that little clear plastic house that I so happily name the "house of loose change". Otherwise, burn in the deep fryer... I mean hell...

[KhawMengLee]

Here endeth the lesson.

[Moe-KendoFreak!]

I mean can you imagine two God's arguing that they are the one true god? Not a very divine image is it?


well i dont think that if there was one true god there would be another god to argue with him ey?




Right. I'm going to assume you're Muslim simply because your parents were Muslim and you were brainwashed to believe what you believe. If you were born in a communist state, you might be an atheist because your parents were atheists, and they're atheists because the state told them to be atheists. Neither has chosen to believe (or disbelieve) based on their own logic and reasoning. Rather, they have blindly comformed to the beliefs of those around them.


oh oh!! and you have "chosen to believe (or disbelieve) based on your own logic and reasoning" right??

i read about alot of religions, and i've seen the stuff they do being practiced, and i have to say it was my choice (yes i was born into a family of muslims, not to mention a whole country of them), coz i think ALOT about "what if there was'nt a god" and stuff, but in the end (and after much reading) islam is what i turn to, its complete with everything, thats just my point of view.

i feel that you dont really give islam a chance, like you just dont want to get anywhere near it, but thats just how i feel..



Sincerly, Mohammad Alkhawashki

[Sinta]

Hi Inuyasha :)

Here's a quote that might help you:

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." - Buddha

I was in the same situation as you. I grew up in a family of devout born again christians, where they took all other religions as sinful. I even remember reading a book my mom gave me, which said all martial arts are sinful, as well as playing dungeon and dragons. -_-

But because I moved from one country to another, I was exposed to different cultures. Slowly I began to do some research on all the cultures/religions and found things that I believed in. So at the end I took pieces of each religion and incorporated it into my faith. Buddhism, Islam, Shintoism... you name it.

I still believe in christianity, but I see it now as a part of my faith. My personal observation is : Why choose a structured religion when faith is something so individual and personal?

To your situation: Are you not being true to yourself? If you start to believe in aspects of other religions... why deny it, just for the sake that it goes against your upbringing? I know that you worry about your family's acceptance, but at the end, how will you accept yourself?

I had the same problems and couldn't go on with not telling my family. They took it easier than I expected. I just try not to get pulled into any debates with them anymore :)

I wish you goodluck to any decision you make. Cheers!

[Hisham]

My humble advice is to seek wisdom wherever it might be, start with what is near and go on exploring, basicly your ground can be the principles or values that are universal like love, respect, honesty, modesty....etc, whenever you hear or read something that promotes fear or hate of the other, just avoid it all together. I believe that the basic right and wrong notions are instilled in every human-being, it's just that unfortunately for whatever reasons that feature gets shut off at some point in time in a person's life.
My 2 dirhams

[nodachi]

The best idea I ever heard about religion came from a writer of the name of H.P. Lovecraft. He wrote Edgar A. Poe type stories, only they are actually good. He got a lot of his material from his psychological problems and nightmares he had as a child. I really recommend reading some of his stories, the short 7 pagers are just as good as his 50 pagers. I forget the title, but one memorable story began with something like, "I know that you find it strange that I have put 6 bullets through the head of my best friend, but I hope to prove in telling you this story that I am not his killer." Something to that effect. Good stories, especially since I still remember them and I am not normally an avid literature fan. Now back to topic.

He had a quote somewhere questioning most religions. Rather than trying to convert people or debate whose religion is right, if the preachers/ministers/fathers/monks/whoever would just tell people to seek the truth on their own, then if the minister/whoever's religion was true, then people would naturally end up there on their own without the converting and religious arguing.

Sound advice and definitely not annoying as the roaming ministers on the streets, crazies in the train stations with signs saying the day of reckoning is coming, or threads on a kendo forum where I hope to have a break from this sort of thing.

[Hisham]

if the preachers/ministers/fathers/monks/whoever would just tell people to seek the truth on their own, then if the minister/whoever's religion was true, then people would naturally end up there on their own without the converting and religious arguing.

Sound advice and definitely not annoying as the roaming ministers on the streets, crazies in the train stations with signs saying the day of reckoning is coming, or threads on a kendo forum where I hope to have a break from this sort of thing.

I agree, especially the last sentence.

[ahmed61086]

I would have to disagree nodachi, because many people close their hearts to certain things and will never realy hear or understand it. Because when someone closes off their heart to something, its like they go deaf, dumb, and blind, and even if it is the truth, they wont see it.

Denial I believe it could be called, but I believe it goes even a little bit deeper than that.

[Moe-KendoFreak!]

I agree with both nodachi and ahmad.

Nodachi because it is true that running after a person to have him convert usually wont lead to anything, if that person was serious about what religion he should follow, then he would look into everything himself and find truth.. :)

And ahmad because it is true that people might close their hearts to some things, and may not find truth that way, it really does go a bit deeper u know.. :)

[Nanikure]

I'm kinda going through the same thing except I'm already buddhist. I'm exploring other religions for the sake of knowing what other people see in their religions. Since most of my friends are mormons I got a book of mormon from them and are almost done reading it. I have too much time on my hands...

[Optomitrist]

I would have to disagree nodachi, because many people close their hearts to certain things and will never realy hear or understand it. Because when someone closes off their heart to something, its like they go deaf, dumb, and blind, and even if it is the truth, they wont see it.

Denial I believe it could be called, but I believe it goes even a little bit deeper than that.

I totally agree. I converted out of christianity 8 years ago. I learned about hinduism, buddhism and taoism. If I try to talk sense to some of my chrisitan friends they just shunt me and ask how do I even wake up in the morning knowing i'm a sinner going to hell. Well screw them.

[ahmed61086]

I understand where your coming from opto, but i sympathize with your friends more than I do with you. I never close my ears, but if someone came preaching hinduism, buddism, or toaism to me, I would totaly ignore them, becuase those three as religions (if you consider buddism and taoism as a religion, some dont) have nothing to offer me whatsoever in a religious aspect, to me in my opinion. Polytheism, to me, is something i will pay not attention to, because Ive allready learned about it, and I dont believe in it. Same differnce with Buddism, I cant realy comment on taoism, because i dont know much about it, but I doubt it would appeal to me.

But i will sympathize with you for a couple of reasons. For example, my fried converted to Islam from Catholosism(sp?) and his parents practically disowned him for it. They have shut down there hearts and minds so fully, that they dont even want to know what Islam realy is. They truly believe that Islam is a religion for terrorists and the like. Its pretty bad that their so blind that they would treat their own son that way, but its ok, because God guides whom he pleases. Peace.

Ahmed.

[Fonsz]

Look mate, religions (all of them) are the same in essence. All this stuff about how one religion is wrong and another is right or that that belief is satanic is just marketing claptrap! The core of every religion is the wellbeing of our lives...in the end what we feel with religion is between God and us...

If you strip the Bible down to its basics, buddhism and the bible are much alike.
Do what you feel is right in your heart and your mind...
Please compare above quote from KhawMengLee with this one from Ahmed

Well, I just believe that their is One god. Pretty simple isnt it. One god that oft forgiving, most merciful, but punishes those who transgress.

The moment someone looks further than his own view and the moment you are free enough to question things that were engraved in stone is the moment, in my opinion that you are a free spirit and on the way of becoming a complete human being.
Putting all the responsibility of things in life over to a higher authority is I think the easy way out to deal with the intricacies of life. Your life is very easy because it is as is and god wanted it that way.
Too simple for my taste but then again I'm a superstitious Atheist:o .

[ahmed61086]

To fonz,

Whos says because I believe that everything is the will of god that it makes it easy. Shit, I allmost died a year or two back because I was sick (still am a lil bit),but believe me, it wasnt easy, and even though I know it was because of my deeds and the will of god, didnt make it easy. But it made it bearable. What made it easier was that I knew that I had to be patient, and God that knows best. Now, I am allmost 100%, not quite, but with faith in god, atleast I didn't go crazy. I had to work hard to be where I am today, so how is that putting everything in the hands of a Higher authority? Saying that is offensive, because it suggests that people go through more pain and suffering than me, or that I deserve it in some way, because I can just say its from God. Believe me, I dont use religion as a crutch, but without it, i would be miserable. Should I be miserable for the sake of being Miserable? It sounds like that is what your saying.

If you believe in, "what goes around, comes around" than you believe in the same thing as me. The only difference is I believe, "what goes around, comes around, and its Gods will". Allmost Karma-esqe, but not quite.

How is it easier to deal with the intricasies of life if you believe in God? When you believe in god, one thinks about consequenses more, which makes things if anything a little bit harder(for lack of better word). But it also makes you peaceful, because you know you will be rewarded for the good, and those who transgress on you will be punished accordingly. How is it that you believe that an atheist has it harder? Because they dont believe that they will be judged? I think that THAT is taking the easy route. Believing that one will not be judged and punished for his bad deeds surely is the easier way out if I've every seen one. I think your logic is a little bit messed up(no disrespect intended).

As for the statement that religion is what the person makes it, to me, is totally true, and I agree with KML on certain points. For example, we in Islam, believe, that when you meet God, he will make himself appear to you as you imagined him and he will meet all of your expectations. So this means, that does not mean he will meet everyone differently, but as what they percieved him. If you believed in the true faith, and believed him to be a merciful god(truly believed in your heart, not just so you could sin and feel free from punishment) then he will be merciful on you. This is the belief of Islam.

As for looking further than my own view, I do. If one has a view adn the view is confirmed to be correct, in a Book that that person believes to be the WORDS of GOD, then why would you try to change it. Just for the sake of Change? Change just for the sake of CHANGE?!?! This would be rediculous. It would be ludacrous. So that I could somehow be a "complete human being". No sir. I will not. You must understand something about truth. There has to ONE. This is very complicated to explain. That their can be only one belief. The thing is, objectively, no one Knows. But i believe, subjectivly, that I do know, and that is the whole point of this discussion. It will go on forever and ever in most cases, so lets not go on forever and ever. Especially in written format, because my hands are cramping. But take care, and I pray that we will all find the True path. You, me, everyone. Peace.

Ahmed.

[pgsmith]

I would have to disagree nodachi, because many people close their hearts to certain things and will never realy hear or understand it. Because when someone closes off their heart to something, its like they go deaf, dumb, and blind, and even if it is the truth, they wont see it.
That is a very true statement.
I will say this very carefully and slowly since you seem to have closed your heart to it and don't seem to hear and understand the hints that have been thrown in your direction. It's as if you've gone deaf, dumb and blind to it.

This is a KENDO forum. It is NOT the appropriate place to push your religious views. We're all happy that you're happy with your religion, but IT'S NOT KENDO! Please go and espouse those views on any of the myriad religious forums across the internet, not here.

Now, did that get through?? :)

[Fonsz]

Ahmed, first of all it is how I view the world, and in my experience the folks that are set in their ways with a tunnel vision, so to speak, are missing out a lot of things in life is what I'm saying. Whatever works for you obviously works for you. I personally think that you overcame your illness because you are who you are. Nothing more or nothing less. My superstitious side tells me your time wasn't up. My pragmatic side tells me that you have learned from this experience, and thus becoming stronger in the end. There are many ways to view your situation and my personal view is that this has nothing to do with the fact that you are devote believer. But that is my personal opnion, I am not trying to convert anyone here and this thread is again proof that politics and religon should not be mentioned in fora like this one.
Thanks for the peace because there is certainly not enough of it going round.:wink:

[Wes Nazo]

That is a very true statement.
I will say this very carefully and slowly since you seem to have closed your heart to it and don't seem to hear and understand the hints that have been thrown in your direction. It's as if you've gone deaf, dumb and blind to it.

This is a KENDO forum. It is NOT the appropriate place to push your religious views. We're all happy that you're happy with your religion, but IT'S NOT KENDO! Please go and espouse those views on any of the myriad religious forums across the internet, not here.

Now, did that get through?? :)

Actually I think normally non-religious sites are a good place to discuss religion rather than religious sites because I think the discussion is more pure.
It's like taking a phone survey. You get better results if you call a bunch of random people rather than giving out a number to call to take the survey. Then only the people with a certain agenda calls.

[Fonsz]

That is a very true statement.
I will say this very carefully and slowly since you seem to have closed your heart to it and don't seem to hear and understand the hints that have been thrown in your direction. It's as if you've gone deaf, dumb and blind to it.

This is a KENDO forum. It is NOT the appropriate place to push your religious views. We're all happy that you're happy with your religion, but IT'S NOT KENDO! Please go and espouse those views on any of the myriad religious forums across the internet, not here.

Now, did that get through?? :)

I hear you loud and clear sir! But as a card carrying member of the Superstitious Atheists I couldn't resist to give some counterbalance. But I will try to refrain from biting in this apple that the Snake is waving in my face.
Over and out Sir.:o

[Toaster]

That is a very true statement.
I will say this very carefully and slowly since you seem to have closed your heart to it and don't seem to hear and understand the hints that have been thrown in your direction. It's as if you've gone deaf, dumb and blind to it.

This is a KENDO forum. It is NOT the appropriate place to push your religious views. We're all happy that you're happy with your religion, but IT'S NOT KENDO! Please go and espouse those views on any of the myriad religious forums across the internet, not here.

Now, did that get through?? :)

who is this aimed at pgsmith-san? Anyway, this is the flames section catagorized under GENERAL which means it does not have to relate to kendo. :confused:

[Anjin-san]

This is like Windows vs. Linux

[KhawMengLee]

Well...is seems we are stumbling into the my god is better than your god one true god arena...as I said do what you think is right in your heart. But remember, Good is good...there is no, "the good in MY religion is better than the good in YOUR religion."

Its a bit easier as a Buddhist because we never get told that we can't follow the teachings of another religion or that we cannot go into another religion's house of worship. Because of this I have a very open view on the subject of worship.

I have travelled to many places in the world and been to many religious sites. My two favourites are the Chapel at Christ Church in Oxford and Bath Abbey. In those two places I felt very much at peace and I liked that. I would one day hope to visit some holy sites in Damascus as well.

I tend to like the idea that religions are there for the positive not the negative. I rather like the philosophy and the spirituality of various religions than the establishment. I find that at times, the clergy(establishment) take us away from the true core of religion. We get caught up in worrying about what religion is right than rather seeing that they all can touch us here in our hearts.

[Gregory]

This is like Windows vs. Linux

More like Film vs. Digital or Nikon vs. Canon :)

[Optomitrist]

I understand where your coming from opto, but i sympathize with your friends more than I do with you. I never close my ears, but if someone came preaching hinduism, buddism, or toaism to me, I would totaly ignore them, becuase those three as religions (if you consider buddism and taoism as a religion, some dont) have nothing to offer me whatsoever in a religious aspect, to me in my opinion. Polytheism, to me, is something i will pay not attention to, because Ive allready learned about it, and I dont believe in it. Same differnce with Buddism, I cant realy comment on taoism, because i dont know much about it, but I doubt it would appeal to me.

But i will sympathize with you for a couple of reasons. For example, my fried converted to Islam from Catholosism(sp?) and his parents practically disowned him for it. They have shut down there hearts and minds so fully, that they dont even want to know what Islam realy is. They truly believe that Islam is a religion for terrorists and the like. Its pretty bad that their so blind that they would treat their own son that way, but its ok, because God guides whom he pleases. Peace.

Ahmed.

I"m sorry for giving you the wrong idea. No joke, I would be sitting on my bed in my dorm reading the "tao te ching" or some other book and my roomate would start telling me stories from the bible the guy down the hall would come in and ask why I'm reading such lies. So really I"M not preaching, I didn't ask for their opinion.

[ahmed61086]

That makes more sense.

[Anjin-san]

My freeBSD page replacement algorithm is better than your windows one!

[Moe-KendoFreak!]

who is this aimed at pgsmith-san? Anyway, this is the flames section catagorized under GENERAL which means it does not have to relate to kendo. :confused:

EXACTLY! if someone doesnt want to read here it that persons choice!! waw :)... this thread is getting funny i swear!

and why did you people change the main subject, this thread was made to help inuyasha! not to discuss "martial arts is the devil" (i really liked that one lol) anyway have fun =P

moe the toe!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Fonsz]

EXACTLY! if someone doesnt want to read here it that persons choice!! waw :)... this thread is getting funny i swear!

and why did you people change the main subject, this thread was made to help inuyasha! not to discuss "martial arts is the devil" (i really liked that one lol) anyway have fun =P

moe the toe!!!!!!!!!!!!
If this thread was to help inuyasha, then this thread is proof that you should never discuss religion because if different religions meet there is always trouble.
And Moe posting here isn't helping you in your hunt for an avatar or other goodies.:smiley:

[Moe-KendoFreak!]

DUUUUDE! im not posting in diffirent places to get an avatar anymore, im just interested in the threads so i post!! :D

[Fonsz]

DUUUUDE! im not posting in diffirent places to get an avatar anymore, im just interested in the threads so i post!! :D
Well I suppose you are on the righteous road then, now some Kendo experience and we will forgot all about your avatar hunt.:cool2:

[Gregory]

liar.lf thats really the case, make a new account.

[Moe-KendoFreak!]

:silly: ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

[Moe-Swordsaint!]

hows this for being a liar!!?!?!!?!?! heheheeeeeee

[Sinta]

hows this for being a liar!!?!?!!?!?! heheheeeeeee

Hi Moe, just be wary. I don't know the forum rules here, but I know in other forums that having multiple accounts can get you into trouble. :scared:

[Moe-Swordsaint!]

well i really hope not!

[Gregory]

In this case I doubt it, just dont post on that account anymore

[Charuzu]

This is like Windows vs. Linux 1st of all... LINUX is the ONE TRUE OS!!!!

Well anyway....Personaly I was born Christan (my mom is a born again) but I never really felt it. Thus, I swiched over to Shinto (http://www.tsubakishrine.com/test/home.asp), Pastafarianism (http://www.venganza.org/)(FSMism) and Buddism (http://www.zencenterofsyracuse.org/). In my house we have sooo many religions. My sister is a witch (Wicca NOT the movie crap), My mum is a Born again, And my dad is borderline Druid.

Personally I really really think that you should go to as many diffrent churches, temples, Circles, zendos and Mosqres as you can. Ask the people their many questions and find whats best for you.

Do not ask for an answer becuse peoples opions are ALWAYS biased (Even mine... while I might seem like an latitudinarian, when I get pissed I often let my own ignorance show)

PS - I STRONGLY recommend THIS (http://www.religioustolerance.org/) site to everyone


Thank you for spending your time reading my responce... I hope I was of help <(_ _)>

[Hank]

[...]My sister is a witch (Wicca NOT the movie crap)[...]I spent half of my childhood (and the first part of my adulthood) growing up in Salem, MA (The Witch City, for those who don't know). It's famous because 20 people were killed there in 1692 - accused of being witches. I knew a lot of people who practiced wicca. See, Salem is a mecca for witches - they say there's a lot of power there, strong ley lines, etc. The place is full of witch attractions, and every Halloween (since 1992) it becomes a madhouse - almost mardi-gras-like.

What all these people don't seem to understand is that the people who were killed 300 years ago were not witches, and that's the whole point of why Salem is famous.

Anyway, that's my rant against witches in Salem.

Oh, btw, every witch I met in Salem was a total poseur who was either into it to look cool or to make cash. I've never met a witch (that I know of) who struck me as earnest. It's that way with a lot of religions.

Hank.

[nodachi]

I knew one once. Nice person too. Salem is crappy if you ask me. Trying to over use your tourism potential can result in a ridiculous collection of crappy and not very informative museums and attractions that are what Salem is. Those who have been will understand. Those who have not, don't bother, it will be a disapointment.

Although there is a nice museum in the center of Salem. It's the Peabody Essex Museum. Has nothing to do with witches and it's sort of small, but has some nice Asian exhibits and some other works as well. If you visit the witch stuff as a side trip after going to this museum, it's maybe ok, but don't pay for most of the witch museums as they are essentially overated wax museums or crappy diarama places.

[Hank]

I knew one once. Nice person too. Salem is crappy if you ask me. Trying to over use your tourism potential can result in a ridiculous collection of crappy and not very informative museums and attractions that are what Salem is. Those who have been will understand. Those who have not, don't bother, it will be a disapointment.

Although there is a nice museum in the center of Salem. It's the Peabody Essex Museum. Has nothing to do with witches and it's sort of small, but has some nice Asian exhibits and some other works as well. If you visit the witch stuff as a side trip after going to this museum, it's maybe ok, but don't pay for most of the witch museums as they are essentially overated wax museums or crappy diarama places.The National Park maritime history stuff is nice, too (Salem was the largest port in America until the Clipper ships started coming (harbor too shallow)). And the House of Seven Gables, but that's about it. The city itself is great to live in, but I've always had a problem with the fact that, with so much history in Salem, people focus on witches, and for all the wrong reasons.

Hank.

[ekajati]

I think don't be in too much of a hurry to rush away from Christianity, it may not be necessary. Personally I believe that the present "incarnation" of Christianity is pretty much dead, but if you look back to the Xtian mystics such as Teresa of Avila (read her bio if you haven't already) and Julian of Norwich you find a much more inspiring brand of it. I personally know a Canon of the Catholic Church who practices as a devout Buddhist as well. I joke with him about the Pope discommunicating him (hasn't happened) but truth is neither of us see any conflict (I follow Tibetan Buddhism) - which is rare as most people see a huge conflict over the god issue. However, if you compare most Xtian definitions of "God" and Buddhist definitions (especially Vajrayana/Dzogchen) of "Emptiness" it becomes extremely interesting. Go forth, Google, Read and enjoy!

[Iblue]

I'll just throw this in here: Live right. I don't think God or Jesus or Buddha or Jahve or Allah or anybody would mind that. Personally I don't believe any religion is really about rituals and rules and the fact that obbeying them would be the only right.

[h2o]

I'll just throw this in here: Live rightI think the major problem is that different people/religions have different opinions on what "living right" is. :p

[Charuzu]

I spent half of my childhood (and the first part of my adulthood) growing up in Salem, MA (The Witch City, for those who don't know). It's famous because 20 people were killed there in 1692 - accused of being witches. I knew a lot of people who practiced wicca. See, Salem is a mecca for witches - they say there's a lot of power there, strong ley lines, etc. The place is full of witch attractions, and every Halloween (since 1992) it becomes a madhouse - almost mardi-gras-like.

What all these people don't seem to understand is that the people who were killed 300 years ago were not witches, and that's the whole point of why Salem is famous.

Anyway, that's my rant against witches in Salem.

Oh, btw, every witch I met in Salem was a total poseur who was either into it to look cool or to make cash. I've never met a witch (that I know of) who struck me as earnest. It's that way with a lot of religions.

Hank.

I highly doubt that thoses people are wiccan. Personaly, I think that the crap that hapend in Slam is best described i the book "The Crucble"
Actualy, It's amazing just how simular they are with shinto.... I have somewhat joined my sister circle to try to find more about them. (so far I have seen some facanaing things.... for example they are both Polytheistic and monothesitic AT THE SAME TIME).

BTW, On the topic of Islam... has anyone seen that one epsode of "30 Days"?
(I LOVE 30 Days... The show teaches tolerance. In one epsode they had an southern white born again christain live w/ a gay for 30 days... In another epsode they got an Neo-Republican outhern white born again christain live w/ a Muslem family... great stuff)

[ShinKenshi]

I was raised a Catholic and still am Catholic but have somewhat began to question whether or not I still believe. I still believe that God exists and that there is a Heaven and Hell, purgatory exists, etc. What I don't believe, is the Creationist view of the origin of the universe. In terms of the origin of life, I believe science. I'm a strong supporter of the theory of evolution and an opponent of the theory of intelligent design (because seriously, there are A LOT of things on this planet that are arguably NOT very intelligent designs). I still follow the Pope and the Vatican but not to the same extent that very conservative Catholics do yet I feel that Pope Benedict is the right choice to be John Paul II's successor.

In short, I'm what some might call, a conflicted Catholic. In the end here's my stance on Catholicism. The Bible is a book that was writen by man years after everything had happened and thus subject to conflicting passages due to human error and full of ideas that might have been completley socialy acceptable back then but not so much now. The Bible is therefore, open to interpretation and not to be followed to the letter blindly. The evangelical side of Catholicism I don't agree with because, though we are asked to spread Christianity by converting people, who are we to impose our beliefs on others? I feel that if someone genuinely wants to convert to Christianity, they will seek us out and make the decision for themselves. Other religions are just as valid as I believe Catholicism to be and I'm not going to stop someone from practicing their beliefs.

Which brings me to another topic that is somewhat related. People should stop taking Christ out of Christmas! Christmas is a Christian holiday and why should everything that contains references to Christianity be removed and made generic? I'm sick and tired of seeing "Christmas Carols" being renamed "Holiday Songs" or the phrase, "Merry Christmas" being replaced with "Happy Holidays". And folks, no matter how you try to play it up, a Christmas tree is still a Christmas tree. I know a lot of you want to call it a "Holiday Tree" but it's still a friggin' Christmas tree! And for that matter, what's wrong with somebody putting up a nativity scene on their front lawn? It's not your property so what right do you have to tell them that they can't put it up? FIRST AMENDMENT!!! Right to free speach! All of you who say that all refrences to Christianity should be removed so as not to offend those that don't believe in it are stomping on the very same amendment that you so dearly treasure and wave in everybody else's face the minute you trick yourself into believing you're being oppressed! So after that huge and very disorganized and wandering rant, I'll just say this: believe whatever religion you want because no one has the right to tell you what is wrong and what isn't, and stop taking the Christ out of Christmas!

[Paikea]

You mean, I'm not really supposed to paint myself blue and run around stoned on rose hip seeds looking for a neighbor to torch in my wickerman on the 21st of December anymore?

Where's the fun in that?

[ShinKenshi]

You mean, I'm not really supposed to paint myself blue and run around stoned on rose hip seeds looking for a neighbor to torch in my wickerman on the 21st of December anymore?

Where's the fun in that?Well, though I might not necessarily agree, or understand for that matter, your desire to do so, go for it. Just as long as it's not me :).

[Paikea]

Well, though I might not necessarily agree, or understand for that matter, your desire to do so, go for it. Just as long as it's not me :).The point being that the Catholic Church set December 25th as the celebratory day as a gesture (in part) to the Celts, who, in the period around 354 AD exerted some influence in the area of Rome (famously sacking it later on and effectively ending the empire) and to the remaining Roman pagans. Each had major celebrations around that particular date (see http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm).

It started off as a multi-cultural festival, why can it not be one now?

Now, who's got my matches?

[Hank]

Which brings me to another topic that is somewhat related. People should stop taking Christ out of Christmas! Christmas is a Christian holiday and why should everything that contains references to Christianity be removed and made generic?

I'm not christian, there is no Christ in christmas for me, therefore I say Happy Holidays to most people, Merry Christmas if I know they're christians. Many people celebrate other holidays around this time of year - assuming that everyone is celebrating Christmas at this time of year is a little self-centered, no?


I'm sick and tired of seeing "Christmas Carols" being renamed "Holiday Songs" or the phrase, "Merry Christmas" being replaced with "Happy Holidays". And folks, no matter how you try to play it up, a Christmas tree is still a Christmas tree. I know a lot of you want to call it a "Holiday Tree" but it's still a friggin' Christmas tree! Oddly enough, the christmas tree comes from a pagan ritual, as does the timing of christmas itself, which was set up at the same time as the pagan solstice celebrations in order to make switching to Christianity so much easier. 2000 year old marketing lessons! The same is true for Easter (Spring/fertility celebration) - in fact, Easter is the pagan name for the celebration. Weird, eh?


And for that matter, what's wrong with somebody putting up a nativity scene on their front lawn? It's not your property so what right do you have to tell them that they can't put it up? FIRST AMENDMENT!!! Right to free speach! All of you who say that all refrences to Christianity should be removed so as not to offend those that don't believe in it are stomping on the very same amendment that you so dearly treasure and wave in everybody else's face the minute you trick yourself into believing you're being oppressed! So after that huge and very disorganized and wandering rant, I'll just say this: believe whatever religion you want because no one has the right to tell you what is wrong and what isn't, and stop taking the Christ out of Christmas!There's nothing wrong with nativity scenes on private property. All this crap is just something dreamed up by the right wing to get people riled up against the left. But, when it comes down to it, it's all bs. Christians are the majority in the US by a long shot, but they are acting like a minority. Why is that?

Hank.

[ShinKenshi]

I'm not christian, there is no Christ in christmas for me, therefore I say Happy Holidays to most people, Merry Christmas if I know they're christians. Many people celebrate other holidays around this time of year - assuming that everyone is celebrating Christmas at this time of year is a little self-centered, no?No, I don't think it's self-centered. If I know someone else is of a different religion and observes I different holiday, I give them an appropriate greeting.


Oddly enough, the christmas tree comes from a pagan ritual, as does the timing of christmas itself, which was set up at the same time as the pagan solstice celebrations in order to make switching to Christianity so much easier. 2000 year old marketing lessons! The same is true for Easter (Spring/fertility celebration) - in fact, Easter is the pagan name for the celebration. Weird, eh?I'm familiar with the history of the Christmas tree but that still doesn't change the fact that people over the years have come to recognize it as a Christmas tree and I feel that as such, it should still be called a Christmas tree. Calling it a Holiday tree infers that it's an all encompasing symbol when it really isn't.


There's nothing wrong with nativity scenes on private property. All this crap is just something dreamed up by the right wing to get people riled up against the left.Alright then. If that's the case, then why are they banning the mention of Christmas or any reference to Christianity in schools? For that matter, they're beginning to ban any references to any sort of religious holiday at all. Why not instead have everything up and represented? Why not have the nativity scene, a menorah, and other symbols of religious holidays this time of year all up at the same time? I'm fine with people renaming it a Holiday concert but that doesn't mean you have to take out songs like Silent Night. How about instead INCLUDING songs that are associated with other religious holidays?


Christians are the majority in the US by a long shot, but they are acting like a minority. Why is that?Isn't it the case in the US that the majority is going to be heard much more than the minority? Don't we still choose our presidents by a majority vote? Or have some of you forgotten that? It's true, now I know many of you don't don't want to accept this, that a majority of people in the US celebrate Christmas in some form so, rather than taking the easy way out and demanding that terms be changed to satisfy all, why not make an EFFORT and hang symbols of other religious holidays at the same time?

[Neil Gendzwill]

What I don't believe, is the Creationist view of the origin of the universe. In terms of the origin of life, I believe science. I'm a strong supporter of the theory of evolution and an opponent of the theory of intelligent design
Then you are not in conflict with the Catholic church at all. They also support evolution and regard the story of creation, along with much of the old testament, with a much more critical eye than the fundamentalists do.

[Hank]

Alright then. If that's the case, then why are they banning the mention of Christmas or any reference to Christianity in schools? For that matter, they're beginning to ban any references to any sort of religious holiday at all. Why not instead have everything up and represented? Why not have the nativity scene, a menorah, and other symbols of religious holidays this time of year all up at the same time? I'm fine with people renaming it a Holiday concert but that doesn't mean you have to take out songs like Silent Night. How about instead INCLUDING songs that are associated with other religious holidays?Ah, the schools aren't private - it's a different arguement. Religion is a private matter best dealt with at home and not in schools. Shouldn't parents have the right to see that their kids are raised as they see fit? If you try to include everything, you'll always miss something. It is best for the state to not get involved in religion at all.


Isn't it the case in the US that the majority is going to be heard much more than the minority? Don't we still choose our presidents by a majority vote? No.
Or have some of you forgotten that? It's true, now I know many of you don't don't want to accept this, that a majority of people in the US celebrate Christmas in some form so, rather than taking the easy way out and demanding that terms be changed to satisfy all, why not make an EFFORT and hang symbols of other religious holidays at the same time?It's not the easy way, it's the only fair way.

Hank.

[ShinKenshi]

Ah, the schools aren't private - it's a different arguement. Religion is a private matter best dealt with at home and not in schools. Shouldn't parents have the right to see that their kids are raised as they see fit? If you try to include everything, you'll always miss something. It is best for the state to not get involved in religion at all.Good point and seen in that light it makes sense.


No. It's not the easy way, it's the only fair way.So you're saying that we need to make all things fair for everyone? I know that people want things to be fair for everyone, hell, I'd like that too. But the reality is that life isn't fair, no matter how much you want it to be and how much it should be. In the end I think there's still one matter I hope a lot of us can agree on. The holiday season is becoming a bit too commercial.

[Charuzu]

Well I would Jive you my oppion but I am both too lazy also their is a video that explains my point far far better.

Go to: http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_daily_show/videos/most_recent/index.jhtm (http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_daily_show/videos/most_recent/index.jhtml)l
And click on the story labled: "Secular Central"

Enjoy ^_^

[Hank]

So you're saying that we need to make all things fair for everyone? I know that people want things to be fair for everyone, hell, I'd like that too. But the reality is that life isn't fair, no matter how much you want it to be and how much it should be. In the end I think there's still one matter I hope a lot of us can agree on. The holiday season is becoming a bit too commercial.Yes, life is not fair - there are things we can't control that make it that way. So shouldn't we try to change the things we can control to make it more fair, especially if it's easy? I think we should, to a certain extent, and keeping church and state separated falls within that extent for me.

And, on the matter of christmas being too commercial - if I was in retail or marketing, or just a rabid marketeer, I'd say it's not commercial enough. But I'm not, so, sure, the commercialism bugs me.

Hank.

[Lloromannic]

I'm not christian, there is no Christ in christmas for me, therefore I say Happy Holidays to most people, Merry Christmas if I know they're christians. Many people celebrate other holidays around this time of year - assuming that everyone is celebrating Christmas at this time of year is a little self-centered, no?


I don't know, I'm no christian and, like you find no Christ in it, however I call it Christmas because I find no problem with thje name. I'm able to say Christmas without believing in Christ and frankly I think it's quite a bit silly to care about it. OTOH if they change the name I don't care even though Christmas has a nicer ring to it than just Holidays. The only change I would oppose is Christmas Carols, after all they are about Christ.

BTW I love Christmas Carols.

[Hank]

I don't know, I'm no christian and, like you find no Christ in it, however I call it Christmas because I find no problem with thje name. I'm able to say Christmas without believing in Christ and frankly I think it's quite a bit silly to care about it. OTOH if they change the name I don't care even though Christmas has a nicer ring to it than just Holidays. The only change I would oppose is Christmas Carols, after all they are about Christ.

BTW I love Christmas Carols.I call it christmas, and I enjoy this time of year. But the point was that not everyone celebrates christmas - personally, I work/have worked with a lot of people from asia, and I know they don't celebrate christmas, so, as I said in the post, I say Happy Holidays to most people, unless I know they're christian, in which case I say Merry Christmas. You know? So, stores with signs saying Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas are just trying to be inclusive - it's not a conspiracy to take the Christ out of christmas.

I used to like carols until I worked in a bakery for 8 years - it's the busiest time of year with 18 hour days and the like. I haven't worked in the bakery for 8 years now and I still have a slight pavlovian response of revulsion when I hear christmas music.

Hank.

[Paikea]

BTW I love Christmas Carols....and Carolines...and Elenas and Marukos and Zhangs and...:happy:

[Lloromannic]

...and Carolines...and Elenas and Marukos and Zhangs and...:happy:
Paikea, you incorregible rascal.




If you go to ht (http://www.moderatto.com/html/moder.html)t (http://www.moderatto.com/html/moder.html)p: (http://www.moderatto.com/html/moder.html)//www.moderatto.com/html/ (http://www.moderatto.com/html/moder.html)moder.html (http://www.moderatto.com/html/moder.html) and click where it says "Jingle Bells" on the left frame you'll see how right you are.

PS Moderatto is a joke mexican rock band who perform 80's pop hits in "metal fashion"

[Mugu]

If anyone hasn't figured that out yet, I'm petty much an Atheist. Though, xmas is my favorite holiday besides the fact I sing xmas songs 365 days a year. I just like the song because it's cheery and happy. And also the songs drive people nuts if they don't sing along with me, lol

The other night my boyfriend also asked me after seeing a discussion on the "happy holidays" or "Merry xmas" thingy. Personally, I don't give a damn. I always hand stuff to people and say "Merry xmas". He said if I was Jewish, how would I feel when someone says "Merry xmas" to me. I told him even if I'm Jewish, I'm probably be a light-hearted Jew. So I'll correct someone when they say "Merry xmas" to me. It's just like people keep calling my house and look for "Mr. Man Lu", I would correct them and not to make a big fuzz about it. Seriously, why can't everyone be a bit light-hearted and cheer up. If you think about and get offended by something as simple as "Happy Holidays" or "Merry Xmas", you don't have time do to suburi or think about better ways to use your waza!

[Hank]

PS Moderatto is a joke mexican rock band who perform 80's pop hits in "metal fashion"Sheesh, I was wondering how you knew all the lyrics from the 80s songs of my youth at your age.

Hank.

[Hank]

Just found an article relevant to the recent discussion if anyone cares:

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2005/12/09/what_would_the_druids_do/?p1=MEWell_Pos2

It's from the Boston Globe, but Goodman is a libertarian columnist, so, please no complaints about the left-wing media.

Hank.

ps-excuse the double post

[Paikea]

Paikea, you incorregible rascal.
Hai, domo...



If you go to ht (http://www.moderatto.com/html/moder.html)t (http://www.moderatto.com/html/moder.html)p: (http://www.moderatto.com/html/moder.html)//www.moderatto.com/html/ (http://www.moderatto.com/html/moder.html)moder.html (http://www.moderatto.com/html/moder.html) and click where it says "Jingle Bells" on the left frame you'll see how right you are.

PS Moderatto is a joke mexican rock band who perform 80's pop hits in "metal fashion"Quite possibly, the strangest thing I've ever seen.

[Lloromannic]

Hai, domo...

Quite possibly, the strangest thing I've ever seen.
And they've got an entire album of it. The castle where it's shot used to be a very nice fishing spot. I haven't been there in three years.

[Toaster]

If anyone hasn't figured that out yet, I'm petty much an Atheist. Though, xmas is my favorite holiday besides the fact I sing xmas songs 365 days a year. I just like the song because it's cheery and happy. And also the songs drive people nuts if they don't sing along with me, lol



Yes, I sing christrmas songs all of the time as well! lol
Just as an update guys, I bought some books on buddhism and christianity before I go racing into anything. My dad actually recently became a zen buddhist as after I started taking to him about the whole thing he decided to look it up to help me decide what to believe and he found that he agreed with the words of buddha so he took it up! I am really not still sure though...
I even talked to my R.E. teacher about it and apparantly she met the Dali lama (sp?) in a conference anmd she discussed with me some of the things he said. I am researching this though! And thanks for all of your help so far.
thx
P.s. Anyone seen this months issue of the national geographic? The article in there entitled "Buddha rising" was very interesting :)

[ekajati]

Dali lama (sp?) I am researching this though! And thanks for all of your help so far.

Dalai Lama is the correct spelling :glasses:. By the way, I just remembered - go here

http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/

for a fantastic site that has masses of info on all the Buddhist traditions (eg Zen, Theravada, Pureland, Tibetan etc etc) - it's really a mine of information. Good luck!

[Toaster]

Dalai Lama is the correct spelling :glasses:. By the way, I just remembered - go here

http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/

for a fantastic site that has masses of info on all the Buddhist traditions (eg Zen, Theravada, Pureland, Tibetan etc etc) - it's really a mine of information. Good luck!

Thankyou! Very helpful :D

[Lloromannic]

Sheesh, I was wondering how you knew all the lyrics from the 80s songs of my youth at your age.

Hank.
Well, they only cover 80s mexican pop songs. The love for the 80s comes from living with a music addict who never stoipped listening to old records or to new ones. I have passing knowledge of many things from Jazz to ABBA (one of my favourite bands) to glitch electronica. However most of my fave bands are from the 80s.