Tsuji-Ryu Kobudo

[Heart of Lion]

Hi, has anyone heard of Tsuji-Ryu Kobudo? It seems to have a long lineage and heritage going all the way back to Oda Nobunaga.

[Hyaku]

Hi, has anyone heard of Tsuji-Ryu Kobudo? It seems to have a long lineage and heritage going all the way back to Oda Nobunaga.

First time I have ever seen the word Kobudo linked with Taiko (Japanese Drumming).

[Kaoru]

Heart of Lion-san, please see my post in reply to a post you wrote, here. I have posted legit dojos for you. 3 Kendo, and 3 Iaido. Iaido and Iaijutsu are the same thing. There is no legit Kenjutsu in your state.

http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showpost.php?p=151213&postcount=34

Kaoru

[Kaoru]

Hi, has anyone heard of Tsuji-Ryu Kobudo? It seems to have a long lineage and heritage going all the way back to Oda Nobunaga.

Well, this is about as fake as anything.

I managed to find their website, and their fake lineage. Just because they claim ties with Japan, and that they write in Japanese, does not mean they are legit.

They call Nobunaga "Samurai Grand Master Oda Nobunaga," which is most silly. He did not found any art, or we'd know about it. Anyone claiming dojo ties to him is ridiculous. Sure, he was a famous samurai, but this is not right.

Website:

http://www.samuraitaiko.com/

Gawd, their blinding red uniforms are horrid... Real Koryu does not even USE belts or flashy uniforms like that.

Also, taiko drumming has niothing to do with kobudo anyway as far as I know. I know that Taiko drumming schools are not part of any sword school.

And this lie from the home page is too good not to post...

11th generation Grand Master C. Tsuji XI, a 15th generation successor of historical war hero Grand Master Oda Nobunaga in its rich samurai history.
Brother...

Then this site claims:

Tsuji Ryu Kobudo" 1500 years of historical lineage and 500 years of direct connections with Grand Masters!

So not true... The rest of the site is just screaming McDojo.

Here is the history of this "ryu" not found anywhere but cached:

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:seCAzrn2xocJ:www.passioneast.com/TD-History.htm+Tsuji-Ryu+Kobudo&hl=en

So, I would say, run away fast, Lion-san!

Kaoru

[Heart of Lion]

Grand Master Tsuji Chouemon XI is a legitimate Soke and he is my Sensei. Sensei does not lie. Trust me when I say that he runs no "McDojos". You have not sat down with him and talked. You have not seen the way he moves. You cannot begin to grasp the vast amount of knowledge that he has. I know he is not the most proficient in the english language and his website is not exactly the best. There may be grammatical errors or the wrong use of words on the website, but everything he says is true. Grand Master Nobunaga brought about many new kata, which he taught to many people including familiy members. Perhaps you heard of his use of long spears or his unique weapon styles? One of his cousins and student moved to the fishing village of Tsuji and changed their family name from Oda to Tsuji, just like Nobunaga's father changed their name when they moved to the Oda sword shrine. From there, the Tsuji family lives on even today with the knowledge and wisdom of Grand Master Nobunaga. Besides fighting forms, Sensei teaches taiko drumming. This is passed down directly from Grand Master Nobunaga. He used it in battles such as the Battle of Sekigahara to motivate his troops. I have personally seen Sensei play the exact same tune from that battle. This may be the first time you have heard taiko drumming and kobudo together because that was what Sensei was taught by his father and his father and so forth. And as far as I know, kenjutsu is not exactly something that is advertised like kendo. Its teaching is more secretive and not openly shared. I was suprised by the Sensei too at first. But after spending so much time with him, I assure you, he is the real deal. If you do not believe me, I welcome you experience Tsuji-Ryu Kobudo yourself. But what do I know? I must be "ridiculous" for claiming dojo ties with him.

[pgsmith]

I've no idea just how legitimate or not this dojo is. I also have no idea if their history is true or not. I do feel that I have to answer one thing that you've written though ... But what do I know? I must be "ridiculous" for claiming dojo ties with him.
No, claiming ties does not make you ridiculous. Coming on to this forum and asking about this school as if you do not know them is ridiculous. This was your post that started this thread ... Hi, has anyone heard of Tsuji-Ryu Kobudo? It seems to have a long lineage and heritage going all the way back to Oda Nobunaga.
If you wish to advertise, then do so legitimately. If you are wondering how your school is perceived, then ask. Do not come here and lie as if legitimately seeking knowledge. This shows your dojo, your instructor, and your entire school in a very bad light. If that is the way they condone people acting, I personally don't wish anything to do with them.

[Heart of Lion]

First of all, I did not come here to advertise. I came here asking about it in hopes of finding others who knew about the school. Instead, I found people who openly criticizes something they do not know about. Why don't you guys give Tsuji-Ryu the benefit of a doubt and experience it for yourself? Stop by for a practice session. Then you can decide for yourself whether or not it is a fraud. I do not know why there is so much hostility towards me because of the color of my uniform or my Sensei's lineage.

[Kaoru]

Grand Master Tsuji Chouemon XI is a legitimate Soke and he is my Sensei. Sensei does not lie. Trust me when I say that he runs no "McDojos". You have not sat down with him and talked. You have not seen the way he moves. You cannot begin to grasp the vast amount of knowledge that he has. I know he is not the most proficient in the english language and his website is not exactly the best. There may be grammatical errors or the wrong use of words on the website, but everything he says is true. Grand Master Nobunaga brought about many new kata, which he taught to many people including familiy members. Perhaps you heard of his use of long spears or his unique weapon styles? One of his cousins and student moved to the fishing village of Tsuji and changed their family name from Oda to Tsuji, just like Nobunaga's father changed their name when they moved to the Oda sword shrine. From there, the Tsuji family lives on even today with the knowledge and wisdom of Grand Master Nobunaga. Besides fighting forms, Sensei teaches taiko drumming. This is passed down directly from Grand Master Nobunaga. He used it in battles such as the Battle of Sekigahara to motivate his troops. I have personally seen Sensei play the exact same tune from that battle. This may be the first time you have heard taiko drumming and kobudo together because that was what Sensei was taught by his father and his father and so forth. And as far as I know, kenjutsu is not exactly something that is advertised like kendo. Its teaching is more secretive and not openly shared. I was suprised by the Sensei too at first. But after spending so much time with him, I assure you, he is the real deal. If you do not believe me, I welcome you experience Tsuji-Ryu Kobudo yourself. But what do I know? I must be "ridiculous" for claiming dojo ties with him.

First of all, Nobunaga was not a Grand Master. Do some legit research. This term is often used by wannabe Soke in the US or other places outside of Japan.

I wnder what the Oda family would say about this "Soke" using the family name and then claiming it was changed by BOTH a fake cousin and Oda Nobunaga's father. What a moron. Your teacher is a liar and FAKE. He holds NO relation to Oda Nobunaga, and there is NO such thing as the Oda family changing their last name. The Oda family still exists, you know. As a matter of fact, the direct decendant of Oda Nobunaga, 17 year old Oda Nobunari(Family name first) is a famous figure skater in Japan.

http://www.usfsa.org/Story.asp?id=29151&type=news


(3/2/05) — Nobunari Oda, the young Japanese skater who outdistanced the pack in the men's qualifying round at the World Junior Championships in Kitchener, Ontario, Wednesday, comes by his fighting spirit honestly.


The 17-year-old is a descendant of one of Japan's most revered Samurai war lords, Nobunaga Oda, who brought civil order to the country several centuries ago.

Oda, who is proud of his famed heritage, accumulated 121.30 points for his program set to traditional Japanese music from a movie soundtrack. The next highest score was posted by Russia's Alexander Uspenski, who topped the second qualifying group with 113.30.


------------

http://www.isufs.org/bios/isufs00005883.htm

Oda is the 17th descendant of Nobunaga Oda (1534-1582), the famous Japanese war lord during the age of the civil war. He is coached by his mother.
--------------

http://www.skatetoday.com/articles0405/032005.htm

http://www.goldenskate.com/articles/2004/030505_m.shtml

Photos of him:

http://www.nobunari.com/smilewind/index.html

Fromn the Asahi news in Japan: In Japanese, but quite clear...

http://webnews.asahi.co.jp/you/special/2005/t20050105.html

Any questions?

Your so-called Soke is NOT a soke, and he has NO business claiming any connection with a family like that.

History on Oda Nobunaga:

http://hallencyclopedia.com/Oda_Nobunaga

http://www.samurai-archives.com/nobunaga.html

Note that there is NO mention anywhere of any such "new" kata, etc. He was NOT a sword teacher ever.

And, the only thing you are correct about, is that Kenjutsu is VERY rare in the US and they don't always advertise. That's why you have me... I keep tabs on that stuff and I know where most of the legit Kenjutsu dojos are.(Still am building my list. I've finished your state.) And, I can tell you for a fact, there ARE none in your state. But, there sure are a lot of frauds out there who claim to teach it...

Nobunaga did not teach Taikio drumming in ANY form either. Geez. Taiko drumming as YOU are learning it, did not exist back then. Therefore, yes, this is the first time anyone has dared to claim this fallacy.

There was NO use for a Taiko, which just means drum, for anything but ceremonial use, warfare or in a temple in Nobunaga's day. There were no dojos of it like you think.

From this site:

http://www.mninter.net/~thomasjp/taiko.html (http://www.mninter.net/%7Ethomasjp/taiko.html)

Taiko was introduced to Japan through Korea, by way of China, with the introduction of Buddhism from India, some time before 600 A.D., in the Nara period of Japan's history. Although an exact date cannot be pinpointed, scrolls and temple records show its usage for ceremonies.

More history of it being introduced to the US and earlier history:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1134/is_n2_v107/ai_20485357

Taken from the above site:

But strictly speaking, the group drumming (kumi-daiko) popular today - in which several performers play drums of various sizes, some keeping the beat, others soloing - is a post-World War II development. In Japan, the rise of kumi-daiko coincided with the late 1960s counter-culture movement, which led some young people to reexplore folk arts that had been neglected as a consequence of the rapid modernization and Western bias of the post-war era. Ondekoza and its offspring, Kodo, now among Japan's best-known taiko groups, were established as rural communes in which the participants self-consciously sought to rediscover their roots. Japanese American youth began to explore taiko during the same turbulent times, when they were battling what was viewed as the stiff assimilationist outlook of their parents' generation and the prevalent stereotype of the "quiet Japanese" (taiko is anything but quiet). The 1997 taiko conference was organized by the Japanese American Cultural and Community Center (JACCC) and held at their headquarters in Little Tokyo. Founded in 1980, JACCC is a nonprofit organization whose mission is to preserve and promote Japanese and Japanese American heritage and arts.


The man responsible for bringing Taiko drumming as we know it today, to the US is a man named Seiichi Tanaka. You can read about him on the page in the site above.

Even more info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiko

And, for your information, it would not be a high ranking samurai who beat the Taiko for battle!

Taken from the site above:

In feudal Japan, taiko were often used to motivate troops, to help set a marching pace, and to call out orders or announcements. Approaching or entering a battle, the taiko yaku (drummer) was responsible for setting the marching pace, usually with six paces per beat of the drum (beat-2-3-4-5-6, beat-2-3-4-5-6).
According to one of the historical chronicles (the Gunji Yoshu), nine sets of five beats would summon an ally to battle, while nine sets of three beats, sped up three or four times, and followed by the cry "Ei! Ei! O! Ei! Ei! O!" is the call to advance and pursue an enemy.


Part 2 will shortly follow.

[Kaoru]

More on Taiko history:

http://www.brucemcgee.net/dokon/history.html

Info on Taiko in war:

Reputedly, one of the first uses of taiko was as a battlefield instrument; used to intimidate and scare the enemy - a use to which drums have been put in many cultures. Taiko were definitely used in battle to issue commands and coordinate movements by the 1500's; the taiko being the only instrument that could be heard across the entire battlefield. According to picture scrolls and painted screens of the time, one soldier would carry the taiko lashed to a backpack-like frame, while two other soldiers would beat the taiko, on each side. Both nagado and okedo style taiko were used in this capacity. A war taiko used by Shingen Takeda, a famous warlord of that era, still exists and is preserved by Osuwa-daiko. It is remarkable for the three large holes cut in the side of the nagado style taiko. This served to increase the volume of the drum, useful in battle.

In addition to the martial aspect, taiko have always been used in the most refined cultural settings as well. Gagaku music was introduced to Japan in the Nara periord (697-794) along with Buddhism, and was quickly adopted as the imperial court music. Gagaku is the oldest continually played court music in the world, and it is still being performed. The taiko used for Gagaku (kakko, san-no-tsuzumi, dadaiko, tsuri-daiko, ninai-daiko, ikko, furitsuzumi, kaiko) are some of the most elegant and beautifully decorated of all Japanese instruments.

The rumbling power of the taiko has also been long been associated with the gods, and has been appropriated by the religions of Japan. According to Daihachi Oguchi of Osuwa-daiko, about four thousand years ago, in the Jomon period , taiko was used for to signal various activities in the village. Simple taiko beats would be used to signal that the hunters were setting out, or to signal that a storm was coming and that the women needed to bring in the meat and fruits they had drying. While there is no direct physical evidence to support this claim, Megumi Ochi, curator of the Taiko Kan Museum, believes this to be true since other cultures exhibit the same behavior. Because these signals were so important to the flow of daily life, the people were very thankful of the taiko, and began to believe that the taiko was inhabited by a god.

As this belief developed, only the holy men were allowed to beat the taiko, and as the Shinto and Buddhist religions developed in Japan, this custom remained. Thus the only instruments to be found in Shrines and Temples were taiko. One consequence of this association of taiko with religion was that taiko were played only on special occasions, and only by men who were granted special permission by the priests. All through this time, taiko were played singly, or in certain instances in pairs. Taiko ensembles were only developed much later.

Modern Taiko History

Taiko as it is performed today, as an ensemble (kumi-daiko), is a post war phenomenon which was born in Showa 26 (1951). Daihachi Oguchi, who created the kumi-daiko style, is given much of the credit for the current taiko boom. Oguchi was a jazz drummer, who happened upon a old piece of taiko music. Deciding to perform the old music for the Osuwa shrine, Oguchi "jazzed it up" as he arranged it. Coming from a jazz background, he wondered why taiko were never played together, and broke with tradition by assembling a taiko drum ensemble.


From the same site:

Taiko in North America

As Japanese immigrated to North America in the early part of the 1900's, they brought taiko over with them as well. Taiko in North America previous to 1968 were primarily used as Miya-daiko (temple drums) and in various dojo (kendo, judo, karate). Also Japanese immigration brought variations of minyo-daiko (folk taiko) - specifically Fukushima Ondo (Som-a Bon Uta) groups - to accompany other art forms. Taiko drumming for Bon Odori was established in Hawaii as early as 1910, and the Kanazawa Kenjinkai brought taiko to San Francisco as early as the 1930's. So the tradition use of taiko drums was well established in Japanese-American communities in North America until World War II. The war, and the subsequent incarceration of hundreds of thousand so Japanese and Japanese-Americans as "enemy aliens" brought Japanese culture in the US to a abrupt halt. Once the war was over, many Japanese tried very hard to assimilate into US culture, and many of the following generation lost much of the language and culture. but the it wasn't until 1968 that Seiichi Tanaka brought the exciting kumi-daiko style to the States.

In 1968, Seiichi Tanaka formed the first North American taiko group, the San Francisco Taiko Dojo. Tanaka eventually went on to form the "Tanaka style" which is a synthesis of Oedo Sukeroku, Osuwa Daiko and Gojinjyo-daiko styles. He and his group went on to inspire many, if not most, of the taiko groups throughout American and Canada. The vast majority of taiko groups in North America owe a huge stylistic debt to Oedo Sukeroku as interpreted by the San Francisco Taiko Dojo. Kinnara Taiko of Los Angeles was founded the following year, in 1969, creating a uniquely American hybrid - Japanese American Buddhist taiko. San Jose Taiko followed in 1973, focusing on making taiko a Japanese American art form. San Francisco Taiko Dojo and San Jose Taiko have gone on to turn professional, and both groups have returned the favor by touring Japan.


There is more... I will post the entire article for you in the next post. And besides, others might be interested anyway. I just wanted to make main points.

As you can see from all the information I have given, there was no such "tune" in battle played. Only one drum was used, and it was not played in the way we know of today.

I hold a BM(Bachelor of Music) in percussion performance, and I do my research quite thoroughly, as a result. I also have contacts with people who do Taiko drumming and teach it, as well. So, it's just not a good idea to fight me on this. Don't even try.

:)

Kaoru

[Heart of Lion]

If you are so convinced, why don't you ask the Oda family? It seems to me that the only way for you believe me is to ask them for youself. I never said that the whole family changed their name. I said the cousin changed his family name. For an expert, you sure have missed alot. Are you so sure in your research that you have compiled a complete list? You will be about the last person I go to for information. And with all your research, you must know that no one article tells everything about someone. For example, you articles don't even say anything about training. Based on your articles alone, Grand Master Nobunaga wouldn't even know how to pick up a sword. You claim you have such a vast understanding of taiko drumming. Can you honestly say you know more about the subject of taiko drumming than Grand Master Tsuji XI? Can you really say that you know whether or not taiko drumming was used in Nobunaga's day? And in what applications? Just because you have half a list and a degree, it doesn't make you an expert in anything. Again, I implore you, do not insult my Sensei.

[Alex_McGrady]

Well, I donno much about all that but if I wanted to attend the Adults Samurai Taiko Class, wouldn't the sword cut a hole in the drum if I beat it with one? Or maybe I just misunderstand why it is called "samurai taiko".... is there a ninja taiko where is seems no one is actually beating a drum but sound is coming out...

Please, dont get me wrong... I think whatever art you do to make you happy and fullifilled is fine, but you might get some attention or ridicule from others that have other thoughts. For example, any class called "Samurai Swords", in my book is a Westernized version of some form of kendo marketed towards 'those who dont know anybetter but willing to pay big bucks'. But you see, that is just me.

Thank you and Happy New Year!!!

Alex

[Kaoru]

If you are so convinced, why don't you ask the Oda family? It seems to me that the only way for you believe me is to ask them for youself. I never said that the whole family changed their name.
I said the cousin changed his family name.


Yes you did. You claimed Oda Nobunaga's FATHER ALSO changed his name.

None of his cousins changed the family name to Tsuji either, it appears.

I don't need to ask, because I know none of what your teacher claims is true.

Did you also know there is no such thing as an Oda Sword Shrine that existed in his day?

As a mnatter of fact, the clan name came about LONG before Nobunaga's father was born, so your "sensei" is a complete liar and does not know a single THING about the Oda clan. So, don't try to come up with another fallacy to "explain" his mistakes. Use your own brain for once, and try to understand that he is feeding you lies.

Oda Nobunaga's family tree:

http://www.geocities.com/nobukaze23/oda8.htm

This link came from:

http://uk.geocities.com/rainforestwind/oda.htm

There ARE books on him as well, and maybe you should take a walk to a library or bookstore and borrow or buy one.

They will have even better and in some cases, have even more accurate information. The guys on e-budo will be able to discern truth from fiction quite well. There are some history buffs and real experts on that board.

For an expert, you sure have missed alot.

Who said I was an expert? Please don't put words into my mouth. I did not miss much of anything, unlike you. Did you even bother reading ALL the articles I posted? There are many more where those came from, plus the people I happen to know.

Are you so sure in your research that you have compiled a complete list?

I never said I have a COMPLETE list. Ask anyone here. All here will back me up.

You will be about the last person I go to for information.

Why? Because I happen to be honest and tell you the truth? How about stepping into one of the real dojos I gave you before opening your mouth again.

And with all your research, you must know that no one article tells everything about someone. For example, you articles don't even say anything about training.

They don't because he was NOT a sword instructor.

Based on your articles alone, Grand Master Nobunaga wouldn't even know how to pick up a sword.

Any idiot with brains know a Samurai is trained in the use of a sword. And, he's not a Grand Master! Get that through your head. He was one of the great Daimyo of Japan, and that means "Lord" ONLY.


You claim you have such a vast understanding of taiko drumming. Can you honestly say you know more about the subject of taiko drumming than Grand Master Tsuji XI?

I never said I have a vast knowledge. I said I have done my research well, and that I happen to know some people who teach it. Read my post CAREFULLY next time. Darn right I know more than him at this point. This idiot didn't even know that there were no drumming ensembles in Nobunaga's day. He thinks there were tunes. There weren't!! And, the fact that he agrandises himself with the title "Grand Master" is so arrogant.

Can you really say that you know whether or not taiko drumming was used in Nobunaga's day?

Read the information I posted! There was NO TAIKO ENSEMBLE DRUMMING back then. You never read anything, did you. There was only ONE Taiko(Which means drum) and no ensembles(Which is more than one person playing more than one drum) that was used in warfare, ceremonies, and also in temples in his day. And, it was also used in Gagaku, which is the Japanese Imperial house Court music (http://aris.ss.uci.edu/rgarfias/gagaku/gagaku.html) which is still performed until this day. Taiko(Redundant really, to call it that.) ensemble drumming as you and your teacher know it, was NOT created until POST(meaning after) WAR WWII. Read the history I provided please for once. If you don't, you are LAZY.

Yes, I can say for CERTAIN there was NOT. Should I go ask others who teach it for you? GEEZ.

And in what applications?

You never bothered reading ANY of the historical information in Taiko drumming in my previous post did you. GO READ IT!!! It's all there as to applications. Please don't play stupid. There are hundreds of Taiko drumming sites that will tell you the same stuff. Plus, a legit Taiko teacher will know the correct history. They won't make up crap.

Just because you have half a list and a degree, it doesn't make you an expert in anything.

Did I EVER claim to be an expert? Nope!

However, I am in MUCH more of a position than you to know what is fact or not BECAUSE I hold a degree in the field of percussion and have been playing for years.

Again, I implore you, do not insult my Sensei.

I implore you to not make a fool of yourself and visit a real dojo before rattling off such trite nonsense. At least fully educate yourself so you know the difference between fake and legit. You can't talk until you attend one of the dojos I gave you.

Oh, and next time, don't come here and play stupid and post a new thread implying that you are checking the school out as a prospective student. That is just plain deceitful and wrong.

Please... Just go visit a legit dojo. I posted them to help you make an honest and educated decison. Not only that, I do NOT want you to get hurt, and you WILL if you stay in that dojo.

Kaoru

[Ignatz]

This is passed down directly from Grand Master Nobunaga. He used it in battles such as the Battle of Sekigahara to motivate his troops.

I was taught that the Battle of Sekigahara took place on October 21, 1600 and Oda Nobunaga died on June 21, 1582 (that's about 18 years earlier by my reckoning)

Were my teachers mistaken? Did they lie to me?

And again, I suggest that you do some research into Oda Nobunaga, probably not the best model for one to have.

[Hyaku]

Hi, has anyone heard of Tsuji-Ryu Kobudo? It seems to have a long lineage and heritage going all the way back to Oda Nobunaga.

This is ripe. You ask us about them then you tell us you do it?

Oda Nobunaga was a military man who conquered and took over most of Japan. Doubtful if he had time to play the drums. Samurai didn't play them either. "Drummers" play them. didn'tIn those times there was a caste system and you didn't jump from one to the next.

Another interesting fact you might like to know is we have thing called Koseki Tohon in Japan (A Family Registry). We don't have "Cousins changing family names." The only people that change their name is when they marry into another family to become the breadwinner.

The samurai class became extinct entering the Meiji era and since then lots of people have got intermarried. I just received new year cards from Honda, Fujiwara, Tokugawa, Maeda, Mori etc etc. How many of them you think could trace their lineage back?....... None

'Ryu' means school and 'sensei' means teacher. The meaning of Soke is covered here and did in fact have theatrical links. http://www.koryubooks.com/library/wbodiford1.html

A dojo means "A place of a way' My friends father Hideyoshi (and no he's not a descendant) has a 'Karaoke dojo.'

To put it simply you cant just come up with a mishmash of Japanese words and try to tell us it's Budo related. In any case a name is name. If someone is a direct descendant of Nobunaga, Tokugawa etc does that automatically make them a kobudo expert? These people originally were leaders and generally employed others to do that kind of thing.

Looking at the homepage this looks like an early pick of the year for Ebudo's Baffling Budo Section.

Happy New Year

[Hisham]

Heart of lion, you have the choice to visit any of the dojo Kaoru mentioned and instead of going there and act like an openminded yourself, you come back here and insist on the "grand master Nobunaga Oda" twisted story and wonder why people are upset, when you say that we haven't talked to your sensei, i'll tell you one thing even modesty can be a false one, anyway man if you have the heart of a lion do as Nodachi suggested, go and visit those dojo, although you found the answers of the members hostile, i would take them as a wake up call if i were you, these guys are trying to help, anyway what do you have to lose man?

[Heart of Lion]

"This is passed down directly from Grand Master Nobunaga. He used it in battles such as the Battle of Sekigahara to motivate his troops."

Sorry, I made a mistake on this part, I meant Okehazama.

And the other mistake I made was with the Oda name. One of the cousins changed their family name (immediate family) to Tsuji when he moved to the village of Tsuji, much like when the Oda name was changed from Taira.

"And, the only thing you are correct about, is that Kenjutsu is VERY rare in the US and they don't always advertise. That's why you have me... I keep tabs on that stuff and I know where most of the legit Kenjutsu dojos are.(Still am building my list. I've finished your state.) And, I can tell you for a fact, there ARE none in your state. But, there sure are a lot of frauds out there who claim to teach it... "

You've obviously missed the dojo I go to.

"Oda Nobunaga was a military man who conquered and took over most of Japan. Doubtful if he had time to play the drums. Samurai didn't play them either. "Drummers" play them. didn'tIn those times there was a caste system and you didn't jump from one to the next."

I never said he or any samurai played the drums.

"Read the information I posted! There was NO TAIKO ENSEMBLE DRUMMING back then. You never read anything, did you. There was only ONE Taiko(Which means drum) and no ensembles(Which is more than one person playing more than one drum) that was used in warfare, ceremonies, and also in temples in his day."

When did I ever say anything about an ensemble?

"I implore you to not make a fool of yourself and visit a real dojo before rattling off such trite nonsense. At least fully educate yourself so you know the difference between fake and legit. You can't talk until you attend one of the dojos I gave you."

You simply assume that I have never been to any other dojos. You have no idea how hard it was or how long it took me to find a dojo with kenjutsu and iaijutsu.

"Why? Because I happen to be honest and tell you the truth? How about stepping into one of the real dojos I gave you before opening your mouth again."

You make such ludicrous claims that my Sensei is a liar. I simply asked a question in the beginning. You were the one that started to slander my Sensei.

"The samurai class became extinct entering the Meiji era and since then lots of people have got intermarried. I just received new year cards from Honda, Fujiwara, Tokugawa, Maeda, Mori etc etc. How many of them you think could trace their lineage back?....... None"

Yes, you are right, a very small number of those people you mentioned can trace their lineage back to years ago, but Grand Master Tsuji is not one of those people and is a legitimate descendent of Oda Nobunaga.

"And, the only thing you are correct about, is that Kenjutsu is VERY rare in the US and they don't always advertise. That's why you have me... I keep tabs on that stuff and I know where most of the legit Kenjutsu dojos are.(Still am building my list. I've finished your state.) And, I can tell you for a fact, there ARE none in your state. But, there sure are a lot of frauds out there who claim to teach it... "

Can you atleast be a little open minded as to consider the possibility that you MIGHT HAVE MISSED A FEW SCHOOLS? You say yourself that kenjutsu is VERY rare.

Stop twisting my words, and for the last time, DO. NOT. INSULT. MY. MASTER!

[ratdeau]

DO. NOT. INSULT. MY. MASTER!
Do you think that your sensei (good or bad) would enjoy this situation?
In doubt, make him read the entire thread...

[Hyaku]

Just a few points... but most were already mentioned.

Your use of the words Grand Master have me worried. Would he happen to be a member of some Grand Master Sokey Dokey thingy? These are the only people that use honorifics like that.

Maybe 'you' didn't say the samurai played the drums. But his online stuff says "Samurai Taiko Drumming"

As I mentioned Koseki Tohon (The Japanese Registry) does not allow you to change your name. There is Onyomi and Kunyomi different ways of reading Japanese Kanji. But sure as anything you cant read Nobunaga as Tsuji.

About the only unbroken line in dating back to Nobunaga's time would be the emperor. In any case most people who could trace back a lineage that far would be in their 17th or 18th Generation by now. But...........as I already said its all beside the point. Decendancy by birth does not guarantee proficiency in anything apart from birth defects. Unless your guys a clone? A direct descendant of Nobunaga would be called "Nobunaga". Just as Hosokawa is still the 18th Hosokawa. the 18th Tachibana, 18th Shimazu, 19th Ogasawara etc, Legitimate descendants retain the name and...... money. Sounds more like runt to me.

A Shinto priest hits a drum to summon the gods. Beating a drum to motivate troops is hardy a skillful action. They generally blew a Jingai and didn't cart drums about.

But the thing is you posted on a budo forum and no one gives a damn about drumming and who is related to who. You have told us nothing of this kenjutsu or iaijutsu. Are you trying to tell us its a Nobunaga ryu. Does it have affiliations with Japanese Ryuha or Renmei. Can we see any video's or photographs?

I see it's listed as teaching, open handed forms-moving meditations and berating techniques. Open handed Forms and Self-Defense - Internal developments and Taikyokuken. Openhanded Self-Defense - Daken-Taijutsu.
Openhanded Self-Defense - Aikijutsu. Tanbo and Bachi. Nobunaga Yari and 6 Shaku Bo. Chouemon No Sai and Tonkwa. Kenjyutsu and Iaijyutsu. And....
Master Tsuji's students always get opportunity to demonstrate in prestige venues and TV programs (and I guess you get to wear the red uniforms).

According to this you use bachi (drumsticks) as weapons? Is there anything you don't do?

No one is doubting you, just give us some more genuine info on the budo, not the drums or families. It doesn't cut in here.

My immediate descendants are Bourneville and I married in to the Hyakutake family (A well know samurai of the Nabeshima fief.) That doesn't make me a cross between a French Knight and a Samurai or give me remarkable abilities with a sword!

[DarQik]

And please, do not make fun of the website because it is more humble or less well built than others. It is so low of you to stoop to such a lever.It is the only public face that we can see, other than your comments. It is hardly what I would call humble. The taiko concert type pictures do look intriguing.December 11th From 4:00 pm - Holiday Open house Free Trial lesson with Samurai Taiko Kobudo Ninja Kids demonstrations!Awww, I missed the demonstration...

Samurai Taiko Kobudo Ninja Kids! I read that they also train in calligraphy and can become professional star performers! If only they could dance and do kyudo too...

I tend to be as generous and openminded as one can be while still retaining one's wallet and mind. This is just a wee bit over the top for me though. What is an ignorant reader of that website supposed to think? This is the public image presented. I certainly won't comment on the suggested ancestry or technique, but drum playing samurai ninjas with swords? That sounds more like marketing of the PT Barnum style than budo.

Never be afraid to challenge your own beliefs. If you can't then you are bound by them. Most of us aren't in your area so we can't stop by and see. I believe there were some AUSKF affiliated kendo places mentioned earlier. If they aren't too far from you, peek in and compare. It should either help confirm that you are learning something good or suggest you are not. It'll cost you a couple phone calls and an evening. It would be endlessly more productive than web forum banter.

Personally, I'd much rather try to explain to my wife why I'd like the kids to do kendo than to justify samuari taiko kobudo ninjitsu. But maybe that's just me...

[Heart of Lion]

"According to this you use bachi (drumsticks) as weapons? Is there anything you don't do?"

The way I remember my Sensei explain it was that the taiko drummers were taught to defend themselves using bachi in case the battle was ever brought to them in the field. (ie, Nobunaga's lines were breached)

"Samurai Taiko Kobudo Ninja Kids"

What is meant by this is that there was a demonstration that day based on what the children's class was taught, Shinobi hand techniques and forms. Please do not compare us to a circus.

"professional star performers"

Sensei and his taiko drummers have performed at various places and events, such as the Boston Museum of Fine Arts, a reception for Mikimoto Shinju Pearl, and at various festivals such as the Forest Hills Lantern Festival this past summer. If you're going to ridicule us, I ask that you do it with a little more civility and in a little less hostile manner.

[Kaoru]

"According to this you use bachi (drumsticks) as weapons? Is there anything you don't do?"

The way I remember my Sensei explain it was that the taiko drummers were taught to defend themselves using bachi in case the battle was ever brought to them in the field. (ie, Nobunaga's lines were breached)
hahahaha, This is hilarious! Drummers were meant to use the drum for sending signals and for letting the army know when to change formations, not defend! The drummers were also soldiers. So, of course they knew how to fight, but this was NOT their duty. Bachi were not used for defense. That would damage them. You don't know what you are talking about. Again!

"Samurai Taiko Kobudo Ninja Kids"

What is meant by this is that there was a demonstration that day based on what the children's class was taught, Shinobi hand techniques and forms. Please do not compare us to a circus.
Nobunaga had nothing to do with Shinobi techinques, period. He never taught anything like that, or anything you claim your teacher claims was taught/passed down, etc.

Sorry, basically, it IS like a circus when you toss together a hodge podge of stuff and call it legit, and then, give the kids class a funny name on top of that.

"professional star performers"

Sensei and his taiko drummers have performed at various places and events, such as the Boston Museum of Fine Arts, a reception for Mikimoto Shinju Pearl, and at various festivals such as the Forest Hills Lantern Festival this past summer. If you're going to ridicule us, I ask that you do it with a little more civility and in a little less hostile manner.
Uhhh, you shouldn't speak like that to Hyaku-sensei. You are FAR junior to him. Remember that. He was not hostile to you at all nor was he uncivil.

As to performing, that's all and well, but he should really stop making claims he can't prove are true, and stop trying to claim he's a Grand Master Soke in Kenjutsu AND Iaijutsu plus the other ridiculous amount of budo he claims to teach. And, he should really do his research better on Taiko history. Taiko drumming was not passed down like he thinks.

Kaoru

[Paikea]

Karou,

The guy has got himself into something he does not understand, and he is in awe of the "cool factor" presented in the form of buzzwords, colorful uniforms and high-sounding stories of glory and days-gone-by. Throw in the word "ninja" and you'll always catch a lot of young adolescent males with daddy's money to spend. No amount of fact or truth will convince him otherwise - he's going to have to do it on his own. As such, it's not worth wasting breath on.

He started this thread under a false pretenses and got exactly the argument he was trolling for. Time to plonk him and move on to better and more productive arguments about the nature of God, the reality of evolution or why the world still hates Gibbo.

[Ignatz]

"This is passed down directly from Grand Master Nobunaga. He used it in battles such as the Battle of Sekigahara to motivate his troops."

Sorry, I made a mistake on this part, I meant Okehazama.

Is the horse dead yet? Well, if not, let me get in one last kick. I think that the reason the battle of Ohehazama was a success for Oda was because it was an ambush, i.e. a sneak attack. Playing drums is kind of counterproductive when you are sneaking up on the enemy don't you think?

[Swordsman4Love]

Stop twisting my words, and for the last time, DO. NOT. INSULT. MY. MASTER!

XD none of these people really have to insult your master you seem to have done that on your own you clearly made this thread out of vanity you wanted to brag about your style's "lineage" and clearly all you have done was make yourself and your master look a fool and if your "master" deems these actions acceptable then maybe he really doesn't know anything probably all he teaches is pretty movements and how to spin a blade around really fast oooohhh O_O parlor tricks fancy lol here's a little hint from me quit while you're ahead or actually before you dig yourself a deeper hole if you keep typing in this thread these same good people will keep comming back and proving you wrong everytime so just try to save a little face ok ;D

[DarQik]

Sensei and his taiko drummers have performed at various places and events ... If you're going to ridicule us, I ask that you do it with a little more civility and in a little less hostile manner.At first, I more or less ignored this, but you bring up a good point. Please understand that most of the decent people here aren't interested in bashing people, and if you're going to do something as odd as study sword in the US, expect some ridicule. I have overheard some comments made walking to/from club practice in the college gym. Usually, they aren't made directly, but we're all subject to a certain amount of scorn by those that don't share our interests....clearly all you have done was make yourself and your master look a fool ... maybe he really doesn't know anything probably all he teaches is pretty movements and how to spin a blade around really fast oooohhh O_O parlor tricks fancy lol here's a little hint from me quit while you're ahead...(FYI, I'm speaking to the negative attitude here which is easy to pick up and use, not specifically to you, Swordsman4Love. You just happened to jump in and present a good example.)

This is precisely the kind of aggressive and hostile attitude that does not contribute to good discussion. It reads pretty much like a direct insult using only the discussion here as the basis. It is one thing to say, I've seen your videos and/or your demo and it appears you don't hold the swords correctly (which has happened recently in other threads), but it is another to directly attack the persons.

If you are serious about studying, you should be serious about others studying. That includes taking in interest in them studying correctly. Simply insulting them cannot do anything more than aggravate and infruriate them. They want to believe good instruction is out there, and that they've found it. Putting them on the defensive against personal attacks will not help them evaluate things for themselves. That evaluation is part of their journey of discovery and learning.

Being able to personally evaluate one's situation is important. It was important to me when deciding where to take myself and my son to study. I probably read through the literature for a hundred different MA schools in the area. I asked friends who've studied for recommendations, with mostly all negative comments. I picked kendo, and it was hard to evaluate without a JSA background. I continually tried too. I met several sensei from the area. We got lucky (as it was local for us) and attended the national competitions and met people from around the country and the world. It was very satisfying to be able to speak about it on a solid foundation to relatives and friends who would ask about it.

I can understand Kaoru's impassioned responses after having read through the threads from her experiences. She came here doing the same kind of checking. She was treated warmly by most and encouraged to check around and compare. It was her personal effort that changed her situation. Sure there were some rude comments about the suspicious statements and behaviour at the school, but if people had started immediately with insulting her directly, I can't imagine it would have been as helpful for her.

As useless as it may be, I would hope that people consider they way that present themselves. I know that I do everytime I start typing. These comments may well outlive me, and I hope not to present myself as a self-absorbed highminded twit who chimes in on things he doesn't know anything about. Martial arts and sword work has actually been a interest of mine for a very, very long time. I read the forums to find the gems from kenshi who have a lot more knowledge than I do, and to encourage people like Jack Chen to be serious and go train where they can, if they are really serious. I try to do that in the manner of "what would I tell 17 year old self, if I could?" Which means that someone who opened with insults would be pretty much ignored immediately.


I also recognize that some of this is simply escalation. Kaoru (I'm picking on you because you had the longest responses ;) ) and some others simply see this so often that they sometimes open with the big stick rather than speaking softly. Given what I've seen, they are more than willing to do research about such claims and openly admit when they are wrong about their suspicions (which tend to be accurate), thus the direct responses to the claims presented about things they know--taiko, kenjutsu locations, etc.

So, to myself and the others who are suspicious of this, please keep in mind what your intentions are: to help this person with his study, or to beat up on him on make yourself feel good today? (Or just to give everyone a laugh with no particular malice intended. ;) I suddenly considered Hai Hai's possible response.)

[DarQik]

I decided to break this thread of thought off from the other... The whole thread is probably dead, but why not...

Sensei and his taiko drummers have performed at various places and events ... If you're going to ridicule us, I ask that you do it with a little more civility and in a little less hostile manner.I tried to be clear that the concert pictures were quite interesting, if not compelling. It looks like something I'd like to see. I mean that in a good way.

I also tried to be clear that the really glaring thing to a bystander like myself is the whole samurai doing anything related to ninjas that gets in the way. I'm hardly a serious scholar on Japanese culture and history, but that just sounds wrong.

You started out with a simple question and statement. "Hi, has anyone heard of Tsuji-Ryu Kobudo? It seems to have a long lineage and heritage going all the way back to Oda Nobunaga."

Later in the day, you walked into a minefield on the other thread (http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?p=151213#post151213), and your response was similar to many trolls (posters trying to start a flame war, not a discussion). You received a rather direct if not stern response that it sounds like you're not receiving qualified instruction--several red flags went off. You responded with a litany of qualifications which threw up a lot more flags:Grand Master Tsuji Chouemon XI teaches Tsuji-Ryu Kobudo. His art can be traced all the way back to Grand Master Oda Nobunaga and teaches almost everything including taiko drumming, kenjutsu, aikijutsu, iaijutsu, shinobi hand techniques, kendo, and just about every single Japanese weapon you can think of. ... But I the reason Sensei will teach me kendo is to suppliment his kenjutsu and iaijutsu training. I won't be using bogu at all when Sensei teaches me. I'm sure I'll be leaving the dojo everyday with a few bruises, but I trust Sensei and I believe him when he says it is the best way.That just screams problems. Naturally, Kaoru (our unofficial resident live blade safety and general school registry officer) read that, and she responded harshly. I believe she sincerely intends to point out that you need to consider that some of the claims may not be accurate. I recently found this link in another forum, take a look and think about it--does it apply to you (http://www.furyu.com/archives/issue8/zanshin8.html)? I should hope not.

If you would like to defend those qualifications against criticism, you certainly can try. If you can separate yourself from the discussion and do it objectively, it would probably be an excellent bit of work for your personal development. A study of the history and legitimacy of the art you are studying is always worthwhile.

If you find that the history doesn't exist or was falsified, you may still feel that the instruction is good for you. That is fine too. Plenty of people enjoy studying new arts that were derived from other older ones. Some have been through this type of challenge raised by inquisitive students and dropped the pretense of being an ancient art and survived just fine.

Even the Kendo of today, is not the same as the kendo of 100 years ago--it has changed. The standarized katas and allowed techniques and judging in shiai have undergone changes.

There are no more wars or duels to determine who's sword technique is better. It's about something that you find satisfaction in doing. Most of these types of study take considerable internal confidence to keep up with over the years. Taking a hard look at your instructor and the teachings is about discovering truth for yourself, and finding reasons to feel confident in what you are studying.

One more quote from the other thread, I mean it sincerely too...Good luck.

[KhawMengLee]

Firstly, mate...its a little warning alarm in the legit martial arts community that when a person calls themselves "Grand Master" he's usually a fake. I've travelled pretty much around the globe and had the good fortune to train with kendoka from Australia to Britain to Hong Kong etc. In that time I've met a fair few Hachidans and Nanadans and none of them have ever wanted to be called Grand Master...it something a bulshido master would call himself to impress the stupid and the ignorant.

"According to this you use bachi (drumsticks) as weapons? Is there anything you don't do?"

The way I remember my Sensei explain it was that the taiko drummers were taught to defend themselves using bachi in case the battle was ever brought to them in the field. (ie, Nobunaga's lines were breached)

"Samurai Taiko Kobudo Ninja Kids"

What is meant by this is that there was a demonstration that day based on what the children's class was taught, Shinobi hand techniques and forms. Please do not compare us to a circus.

"professional star performers"

Sensei and his taiko drummers have performed at various places and events, such as the Boston Museum of Fine Arts, a reception for Mikimoto Shinju Pearl, and at various festivals such as the Forest Hills Lantern Festival this past summer. If you're going to ridicule us, I ask that you do it with a little more civility and in a little less hostile manner.

Oda Nobunaga never founded any school of swordsmanship. He didn't have the time. It took Miyamoto Musashi more than half his life to find his style. The same with Yagyu etc etc.

What you are claiming here is that as well as fighting his whole life to unify Japan(He was killed quite suddenly by a betrayal while still fighting to unify Japan you know. So he didn't exactly have time to teach a sword art during peacetime, yet alone found a school) Oda Nobunaga:

1) Started his own sword style.

2) Also was a master of or was proficient enough to teach Ninjitsu.

3) Also taught a secret Ryu to his taiko drummers to use against his foes.

4) Also was a master of the lance.

5) Unified Japan.

6) Did all the above while being constantly out in the battlefield since he first started fighting at the age of 13. And somehow managed to pass all this knowledge in turn to his cousin before his unexpected assasination.

This would be like saying Prime Minister Koizumi is not only a Prime Minister but also in that time becoming PM, he also became a master taiko drummer, invented his own ninja school, invented his own sword ryu, invented a motorcar, conquered China, etc etc

The tasks and timescale does not fit. At the same time, if Tsuji was an expert at all these arts...well then he must be Jesus Frickin Christ because to Master all these arts in one go in a lifetime is a miracle.

Hyaku Sensei is a member of a legitimate Sword School and I think he will point out how long it takes to mater/be competant in ONE style let alone a 5 or more.

Oh...btw, I was talking to my Sempai the other day about how your Grand Master said how he was taught without Bogu. We had a good laugh at the idea but I pressed him to ask his Grandfather(a nanadan in Japan) just in case us 'youngbloods' missed out on some hardcore pearls of training wisdom. His reply to the subject of someone training at full speed strike without bogu, was to the effect of "a pervert enjoying the thrill of peeing on an electric fence." Most amusing...

[Swordsman4Love]

I'm not really trying to be taken seriouslly here >.> it's not my style to be taken seriouslly :P life's too short to be serious all the time see just like this random post I'm making I see something funny and I comment on it =D granted I'm a noobie I know and I proudly admit it and I would edit my profile if I knew how >.> help pwease? ;~; lol no I'm serious I have no idea how to change some of the stuff XD I basically joined these forums to have fun and learn a few things because what's life without a little fun so just give me a little time to figure out stuff and then maybe I can make you all laugh a little =D

[Paikea]

User CP->Edit Profile....quickly.

[Kingofmyrrh]

...then maybe I can make you all laugh a little =D
Forgive me if I have my doubts...

[Kaoru]

User CP->Edit Profile....quickly.

Agreed. I just read his profile.

Kaoru

[Swordsman4Love]

but how do I put a picture up instead of the ones they have preset >.> they're all of animals and what not I wanna put a picture that I want up >_<

Forgive me if I have my doubts...

and give me a while =D I'll make you laugh even if it is about something completely abstract and stupid I'll somehow make you laugh =D

[Kaoru]

but how do I put a picture up instead of the ones they have preset >.> they're all of animals and what not I wanna put a picture that I want up >_<



and give me a while =D I'll make you laugh even if it is about something completely abstract and stupid I'll somehow make you laugh =D

You can't. You have to earn a custom avatar. That is done by the number of posts. Some 80-100 you need, I think. (And it's not a good idea to spam the boards for it. ;) ) :)

Kaoru

[Swordsman4Love]

oh okay thank you for your help =D and anymore advice you guys could give a noob like me is appreciated ^_^

[Heart of Lion]

perhaps this will put any doubts about Master Tsuji to rest.

http://www.boston.us.emb-japan.go.jp/eng/culture/music.html

http://www.boston.us.emb-japan.go.jp/eng/culture/martial_arts/iaido.html

http://www.boston.us.emb-japan.go.jp/eng/culture/martial_arts/aikido_ma.html


Would the Consulate General of Japan, whom represents all of Japan, have anything to do with them if it is not real or genuine? Please, I understand that Master Tsuji's lineage may be hard to believe is true. But the Academy of Kubodo is as real as any other school listed at the above listed websites.

[Ignatz]

Taiko? Here's some taiko.

http://ja.metacafe.com/watch/56404/naked_japanese_stomp/?itemID=56404&referrerID=

You might not want to open this at work because it is an all girl taiko group and they perform, shall we say "Freedom Taiko" (with appropriate Japanese airbrushing)

[Heart of Lion]

Ignatz, why are you doing this?

[Kaoru]

perhaps this will put any doubts about Master Tsuji to rest.

http://www.boston.us.emb-japan.go.jp/eng/culture/music.html

http://www.boston.us.emb-japan.go.jp/eng/culture/martial_arts/iaido.html

Would the Consulate General of Japan, whom represents all of Japan, have anything to do with them if it is not real or genuine? Please, I understand that Master Tsuji's lineage may be hard to believe is true. But the Academy of Kubodo is as real as any other school listed at the above listed websites.
Your dojo is still not legit. Sorry. None of those mean a single thing. This does NOT give validity to a dojo. Anyone can be listed there if they ask.

Geez, will you wake UP?? His lineage has to be REAL and not faked. It has to be legit and not made up. He has to have trained in a legitimate Japanese sword art(JSA) and hold legit rank to be a real JSA teacher. He has done none of these things. Get it yet??

The Consulate General does NOT say this or that Ryu is legit. Any legit sword practitioner knows this. The Japanese Consulate General has no say over what Ryu is/is not legit. I suspect he'd laugh if he saw what you said. And, guess what? The Japanese Consulate General does not handle listing demonstrations and dojos on that site. He has more important things to worry about. It is likely he does not know about your dojo at all, as a result.

Part of what makes a dojo legit is their lineage and valid link to a legit soke. Your dojo has neither.

Why the heck will you NOT visit the dojos I gave you like a normal person would? Are you so brainwashed by this guy that you won't? No offense, but I think you REALLY need to do what I told you for once. Or, are you afraid you might find he lied? He did you know.

I think you need to visit your other thread to see what I said about the use of live blades and sparring. Your teacher is literally crazy. I guess you want to die.

Here:

http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9143

This is your thread titled "strong iaito?"

Read it carefully and think carefully about what I said in post #10. (I had to re-write my first post there. You'll see why.)

You seriously need someone to drag you by the collar and take you to a real dojo that is safe. Yours is definately NOT.

I don't know what has gotten into you, but you need to open your eyes and stop believing everything this guy says. Flashy titles and red uniforms and etc. do not mean anything about what a teacher really is. You need to understand this NOW, not later.

If I could, I'd write your parents and tell them what you got yourself into. Parents usually have brains that still function. Maybe they'd drag you to a legit dojo where you won't kill yourself or someone else if they knew what this guy really is.

Anyway, that was a last ditch attempt to get you into a real dojo that won't get you seriously injured or killed. Geez, at least I tried. Makes me angry you will not visit any I gave you. :mad: At least you can't say I didn't warn you.

Kaoru

[Kaoru]

Here is proof the Japanese Consulate General himself does not post dojo listings or have anything to do with it:


Originally created for use in combat, the martial arts are now used for exercise, self-defense, and are even practiced as competitive sports. The New England area has a large assortment of dojos (schools) and organizations to choose from if you are interested in beginning or continuing your study of Japanese Martial Arts.
Simply choose a type of Martial Art and then contact the school of your choice. Please note, schools are listed alphabetically by town or city and Karate is divided by style, not state.
If you would like to have your dojo or organization listed please contact infocul@cgjbos.org.


Found here:

http://www.boston.us.emb-japan.go.jp/eng/culture/martialarts.html

Sorry.

Kaoru

[KhawMengLee]

Taiko? Here's some taiko.

http://ja.metacafe.com/watch/56404/naked_japanese_stomp/?itemID=56404&referrerID=

You might not want to open this at work because it is an all girl taiko group and they perform, shall we say "Freedom Taiko" (with appropriate Japanese airbrushing)


Eyes...still...wobbling...I have a sudden urge to start practicing taiko drumming...

************************************************** ***

Heart of a Lion...when you walk into a bar, and someone punches you in the face...maybe there's something wrong with the Bar. When you walk into 20 bars and get smacked in every one of them...there's something wrong with you.

So far every one that's posted here thinks you are being conned...when are you going wake up to the fact there's something very wrong with you.

[nodachi]

Eyes...still...wobbling...I have a sudden urge to start practicing taiko drumming...


Down Professor Hentai! Bad dog! Bad... stop humping the taiko drum!

[Heart of Lion]

Wow, I am suprised that not even recognition from the Japanese government is enough to open your eyes. Maybe other Sensei will be enough? Master Tsuji knew the late Kanai Sensei, a well respected and honorable man in the Japanese Martial Arts community. They would practice together and sometimes Master Tsuji would even come into help teach a class of Kanai Sensei.

http://www.neaikikai.org/

If you need something more, ask any real, respected Japanese historian. They will confirm Sensei Tsuji's heritage and lineage. They will confirm that he is a living descendent of Oda Nobunaga and that everything he stands for is legitimate.

If still you need more, consult the Heian Jingu, a holy shrine in Japan. Traditionally, when new family members are born, they go to a major shrine and have a scroll with their family line added. Only monks of the highest echelon were allowed to do this, monks who were of great morality and character. They would never lie. The Heian Jinju recognizes Sensei Tsuji's heritage.

Why is it so hard to believe? What would open your eyes? Kaoru, you seem hell-bent on destorying my Sensei's name, something of great insult not only to me, him, but to his whole ancestry.

[Ignatz]

Hi, has anyone heard of Tsuji-Ryu Kobudo? It seems to have a long lineage and heritage going all the way back to Oda Nobunaga.

Lest we forget, that was your original post. No reasonable person would infer from that innocent question that you were a shill for Tsuji-ryu Kobudo. Quite the contrary, a reasonable person would assume that you were trying to find out if this were for real. It turns out that you are the Jehovah's Witness of martial arts and you are trying to sell this to us.

What do we know from this?

You are a phony.

What can we infer?

Either your teacher has no idea what you are doing or he does. If the second case is correct then we can infer that your teacher is a phony too. If he does not know you should tell him what you have done and if he doesn't kick you out of the school then he is suspect.

Does your teacher know what you are doing?
You don't get a second chance to make a first impression.

[Kaoru]

Wow, I am suprised that not even recognition from the Japanese government is enough to open your eyes.

NO the Japanese government did not recognise the dojo. ANYONE can post their dojo there. Just because it says Japanese Consulate does not mean that they instantly recognise a dojo as legit and true just because a dojo is posted there. Did you know that this is just the Japanese EMBASSY? That's not the government like you think. The Japanese Consulate doesn't care what dojo is what.


Maybe other Sensei will be enough? Master Tsuji knew the late Kanai Sensei, a well respected and honorable man in the Japanese Martial Arts community. They would practice together and sometimes Master Tsuji would even come into help teach a class of Kanai Sensei.

http://www.neaikikai.org/


Kanai-sensei is still alive you idiot! How about I e-mail him and ASK him? Wouldn't you be sorry... A sensei of that caliber won't be having anything to do with your teacher. And, you are pretty rude to bring Kanai-sensei into this.

If you need something more, ask any real, respected Japanese historian. They will confirm Sensei Tsuji's heritage and lineage. They will confirm that he is a living descendent of Oda Nobunaga and that everything he stands for is legitimate.

Your "teacher" likely has brainwashed you in his "class" on his lineage and all. Japanese historians won't do any such thing since it's not true. He is no living decendent of Nobunaga.

If still you need more, consult the Heian Jingu, a holy shrine in Japan. Traditionally, when new family members are born, they go to a major shrine and have a scroll with their family line added. Only monks of the highest echelon were allowed to do this, monks who were of great morality and character. They would never lie. The Heian Jinju recognizes Sensei Tsuji's heritage.
You are completely full of it. SO full of it.

Why is it so hard to believe? What would open your eyes? Kaoru, you seem hell-bent on destorying my Sensei's name, something of great insult not only to me, him, but to his whole ancestry.
Why do you blindly follow him like he's a God? WHY is it so danged HARD for you to visit other dojos? Your sensei doesn't HAVE a respected name in the JSA community. A lie is a lie. He lied.

Learn to think for yourself.

Kaoru

[ScottUK]

Dear 'Heart of lion',

Many, many people have come here claiming something absurd or downright comical. The majority have left with their arses handed to them on plates.

On KWF you have a hearty mix of extremely able kenshi along with overly sarcastic buffoons - all of which know their shit. Be nice & don't pretend you're something you're not and all is well. Tell fibs & create a fantasy world and prepare for a bottom-ripping of a lifetime.

I shall now sit back with my popcorn and a non-diet coke. Please guys, continue... :D

[Obulco]

Kanai-sensei is still alive you idiot! How about I e-mail him and ASK him? Wouldn't you be sorry... A sensei of that caliber won't be having anything to do with your teacher. And, you are pretty rude to bring Kanai-sensei into this.

As far as I know, this Kanai-Sensei died in 2004. I remember very well reading about it since he had been a very respected figure in the Boston area.

[Kaoru]

As far as I know, this Kanai-Sensei died in 2004. I remember very well reading about it since he had been a very respected figure in the Boston area.
Hmmm... Interesting. Then, they should update their page a little if that's true. Here:

http://www.neaikikai.com/kanai.html

Kanai Sensei has taught widely in Japan, Europe, and throughout the United States and Canada. He was assigned to the New England Aikikai in 1966 by Aikido World Headquarters in Tokyo, and is the current Director of the Technical Committee of the United States Aikido Federation.
This is end of a part of the bio given on the page above. I put in bold what I read. :)

Makes me wonder which is true. Did he die or not? You're sure the thing you read had it correct?

This Tsuji-person is still a liar though. Why would such a respected sensei let a guy like this teach his classes? It would be really easy to find out the truth still, if I feel like it.

Kaoru

[Obulco]

Makes me wonder which is true. Did he die or not? You're sure the thing you read had it correct?



http://www.aikidoonline.com/Features/Lexington.Kanai.htm

[Kingofmyrrh]

Hmmm... Interesting. Then, they should update their page a little if that's true. Here:

http://www.neaikikai.com/kanai.html


This is end of a part of the bio given on the page above. I put in bold what I read. :)

Makes me wonder which is true. Did he die or not? You're sure the thing you read had it correct?

This Tsuji-person is still a liar though. Why would such a respected sensei let a guy like this teach his classes? It would be really easy to find out the truth still, if I feel like it.

Kaoru

Why just not admit that the info you got is just from a website and not first-hand and apologize? It's hard to be persuasive when your own information is wrong. Heart of Lion may be a fool but he's doing a good enough job of proving that by himself.

[KhawMengLee]

Anyways...Heart of a Lion, stop trying to add more crap to cover up your mistakes. I dare you to try this shit on E-budo.com and you'd get your arse handed to you on a plate by some serious exponents of JSA and Budo.

[Hyaku]

The link is for Taiko (Drums)

The second and third links go to a homepage. Tere it offers no explanation as to what Budo is done and where it came from. Just an, "Under construction" message at the top.

If I remember I saw him billed at the Shaky Mountain festival for Taiko. There is no question as the fact that he has a drum group. That alone would give him a link on Consulate pages.

A Japanese Consul has my ryu doing a public demonstration soon. We are not even Japanese but........ we do Budo.

You keep posting here but as yet we still don't see any Budo. It was you who posted here in the first place then answered your own question.

To be honest nobody wants to pull your guy down. Fact of the matter is no one probably gives a damn who he is or what he does.

Add to this the fact that few well know ryu even bother to make a homepage. Thing is anyone can make a home page even online Budo Associations and print their own certification. Proof of blood lineage does not mean anyone is good at anything.

If he is of noble worth he should kick you up the butt for keep posting here:dead:

[Hyaku]

Anyways...Heart of a Lion, stop trying to add more crap to cover up your mistakes. I dare you to try this shit on E-budo.com and you'd get your arse handed to you on a plate by some serious exponents of JSA and Budo.

It's up! Lets see what the reaction is.

Heart of Lion pop over to eBudo and justify yourself there. Watch what you say though. It's a moderated forum

[KhawMengLee]

http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?p=388362#post388362

[Heart of Lion]

"NO the Japanese government did not recognise the dojo. ANYONE can post their dojo there. Just because it says Japanese Consulate does not mean that they instantly recognise a dojo as legit and true just because a dojo is posted there. Did you know that this is just the Japanese EMBASSY? That's not the government like you think. The Japanese Consulate doesn't care what dojo is what."

I assure you, only legitimate dojos are listed there. Do you think a representative of the Japanese government, in this case, the Consulate General of Japan, would risk soiling Japan's name by leading people to a fake dojo? In case you didn't know, a country's embassy is representative of that country's government.

"Kanai-sensei is still alive you idiot! How about I e-mail him and ASK him? Wouldn't you be sorry... A sensei of that caliber won't be having anything to do with your teacher. And, you are pretty rude to bring Kanai-sensei into this."

http://www.aikidoonline.com/Features...gton.Kanai.htm

Oh? He is still alive? I guess the above article is false then, the same way everything I am defending must be false according to you.

"Japanese historians won't do any such thing since it's not true."

Why don't you go and ask one then? Go ask a real Japanese Historian.

"You are completely full of it. SO full of it."

You continually use denial as a rebuttel for things you do not understand. Why would I use false information to defend my argument?

"Many, many people have come here claiming something absurd or downright comical. The majority have left with their arses handed to them on plates.

On KWF you have a hearty mix of extremely able kenshi along with overly sarcastic buffoons - all of which know their shit. Be nice & don't pretend you're something you're not and all is well. Tell fibs & create a fantasy world and prepare for a bottom-ripping of a lifetime."

I am sorry your forum has been besieged by frauds and fakes. Your experience with them has lead you to harbor false misconceptions about what I defend. Is it so hard to believe that what I stand for might be true?

[ScottUK]

I am sorry your forum has been besieged by frauds and fakes. Your experience with them has lead you to harbor false misconceptions about what I defend. Is it so hard to believe that what I stand for might be true?Hey, that's life. There are many koryu practitioners on here who spend a lot of time and money pursuing their practice. It's kind of a slap in the face to them when 'fake' koryu turn up claiming to be legitimate and a thousand-odd years old.

Hey, you may be legit, you may not. I fear... not:

http://www.nipponbudokan.or.jp/shinkou/html_1/index9.html

Can't see ya... :)

[h2o]

Hmmm... Interesting. Then, they should update their page a little if that's true. Here:

http://www.neaikikai.com/kanai.html


This is end of a part of the bio given on the page above. I put in bold what I read. :)

Makes me wonder which is true. Did he die or not? You're sure the thing you read had it correct? Since that website was last modified November 19, 2000 21:48:08 I would say that it is not a very good source if you want to know if someone is still alive. :smoker:

Btw, calling people "idiots" isn't really nice.

[splice]

Kanai-sensei is still alive you idiot! How about I e-mail him and ASK him? Wouldn't you be sorry... A sensei of that caliber won't be having anything to do with your teacher. And, you are pretty rude to bring Kanai-sensei into this.

Kaoru, you've been told this a number of times before, but I think it bears repeating. You really should keep out of conversations where you don't have first hand knowledge. You call someone an idiot based on information you have no personal knowledge of, and now you turn out to be wrong. This kind of thing has happened before, and yet you still get involved in things you don't play a part in, in the least.

I don't care about this "Tsuji ryu" either way, but when told that there are records at a shrine, you just reply that the guy is "SO full of it", without any justification. You might feel like a budo god, telling everyone who's real and who's not, but I know I long ago stopped considering anything you say as relevant. Regardless of your intentions and personal knowledge and experience, you're willing to make statements for which you have little or no support, and you rarely admit you're wrong. And you keep doing it.

I know that there are people that enjoy what you do, but I get the impression they enjoy the dressing down you give to people, and not your facts or their veracity. It's something I hope you'll think about.

Anyway, that's all I have to say. I doubt I'm the only one that has these thoughts about your postings.

[Ignatz]

Your experience with them has lead you to harbor false misconceptions about what I defend. Is it so hard to believe that what I stand for might be true?

A "false misconception" would be true, wouldn't it?
As to it being hard to believe, several people have questioned your completely false beginning to this thread and you have not responded at all. Admit you lied and tell us why and perhaps somebody might listen to you. The reality, however, is that you have single handedly done more to damage your sensei's reputation than everyone else put together.

[shinai_swinger]

Anyway, that's all I have to say. I doubt I'm the only one that has these thoughts about your postings.

No, you aren't.

[John Seavitt]

Folks -

The listings on Boston's Japanese consulate site are there as a convenient guide to local people looking for various Japanese cultural interests. There's no endorsement, or requirement that the arts be taught in completely traditional manner, inherent to the listing. Indeed, examples in several categories are (and specifically identify themselves as) not being affiliated with traditional schools in Japan.

Regardless, I'm not sure pounding anyone over the head will convince them that their cherished art is or is not what they've been told it is. There's plenty of resources for finding out on one's own, and - in this case - there's plenty of arts in Boston with accessible lineages for anyone who cares to look.

John

[Swordsman4Love]

then how bout we just take a poll? everyone that believes Heart of Lion say "I" and those that don't believe him say "nay"? I don't know XD it's like a senate meeting

[Ignatz]

I am still waiting to hear Mr. HOLion's explanation for pretending he did not know anything about the school when his real intention was to promote it. All I have heard so far is a bunch of horse muffins.

[Hyaku]

Hey, that's life. There are many koryu practitioners on here who spend a lot of time and money pursuing their practice. It's kind of a slap in the face to them when 'fake' koryu turn up claiming to be legitimate and a thousand-odd years old. Hey, you may be legit, you may not. I fear... not:
http://www.nipponbudokan.or.jp/shinkou/html_1/index9.html

Can't see ya... :)

Thing is Nippon Budokan and Monbusho (Japan Ed) work in conjuction with each other. That's the acceptable face of it and the recognition that is considered acceptable. Be it Kendo, Iai Kobudo etc it's all under the same roof. Budo has survived to this day with it's connection as an educational tool not because "the Samurai and Family lines".

Poor Heart of Lion is completely missing the point as to what makes Budo tick in this day and age. Art is one thing martial art is a bit different. Do we give dancers Karate grades because they do high kicks? "Taiko also does Budo" is fine on an art site. But trying to advertise on KW we really want to hear "Budo also does Taiko"

[Kaoru]

http://www.aikidoonline.com/Features/Lexington.Kanai.htm

Hey thanks! I was going to research it myself, but never got the chance later after I posted and I never got back to here until just now.

Anyway, thanks again! :)

Kaoru

[Kaoru]

Why just not admit that the info you got is just from a website and not first-hand and apologize? It's hard to be persuasive when your own information is wrong. Heart of Lion may be a fool but he's doing a good enough job of proving that by himself.

I don't have to admit it, since it's obvious I got it from the website I gave. That's the same website Heart of Lion gave as well.

And, that was Kanai-sensei's dojo, BTW... It doesn't have a thing on there as to his death. I don't know why... Oh well.

But anyway, you're right though. I should apologise for thinking he was wrong on that one thing.

So, Heart of Lion-san, I apologise for thinking you were wrong. For this once, you were correct. And, I also am sorry I called you an idiot. Whether or not you are wrong or right, I shouldn't have called you that either way. So, my apologies.

*bow*

Kaoru

[Kaoru]

The link is for Taiko (Drums)

The second and third links go to a homepage. Tere it offers no explanation as to what Budo is done and where it came from. Just an, "Under construction" message at the top.


They also go by the name " The Academy of Kobudo:

There used to be a lineage page that only could be found cached, but that since has disappeared and there also was a page that listed about 20 at least, of Budo arts taught and there were other classes listed too and one such class was on the history of this Tsuji Ryu and lineage. This page has since disappeared too.

If I remember I saw him billed at the Shaky Mountain festival for Taiko. There is no question as the fact that he has a drum group. That alone would give him a link on Consulate pages.


They are also listed as a dojo in the MA dojo section.

Kaoru

[Hyaku]

They also go by the name " The Academy of Kobudo:

There used to be a lineage page that only could be found cached, but that since has disappeared and there also was a page that listed about 20 at least, of Budo arts taught and there were other classes listed too and one such class was on the history of this Tsuji Ryu and lineage. This page has since disappeared too.

They are also listed as a dojo in the MA dojo section.

Kaoru
Yes I saw that too.

Embassy or Consulates don't go into checking out the the authenticity of groups. If they had checked us I could have provided necessary papers. Thing is they didn't!

Just because it has a Japanese origins or the leader is a first or second generation Japanese does not mean its official either. I suppose consulates are not aware that there are also Japanese led dojo or groups of questionable origin.

I really do stick my nose into other people affairs when it comes to things like this:( Then again if no one took the time to post about what's above board and what isn't some would be none the wiser.

Recently I helped interview an English native speaker Japanese associates said came from Cuba! In all honesty even the Japanese just tend to muddle through on some stuff.

[ScottUK]

Thing is Nippon Budokan and Monbusho (Japan Ed) work in conjuction with each other. That's the acceptable face of it and the recognition that is considered acceptable. Be it Kendo, Iai Kobudo etc it's all under the same roof. Budo has survived to this day with it's connection as an educational tool not because "the Samurai and Family lines". Hyaku-sensei,

Is the listing on the NKK site definitive? Are these the only koryu recognised by them?

[Hyaku]

Hyaku-sensei,

Is the listing on the NKK site definitive? Are these the only koryu recognised by them?

The NKK list expands yearly. Ryu from Okinawa seem to be joining each year.

Some are members but rarely demonstrate. Not much point being a member if you don't show your stuff.

I think it serves a dual purpose and is a give and take situation. The NKK is what it is because people choose to join. Some of us would function just as well without it. Thing is there is a strong sense of wanting to belong in Japan.

Down in Kagoshima the Kobudo list fills a small magazine but they dont feel the need for national recognition.

[ScottUK]

Hyaku, in order to stop my little thread hijack, I'll continue this in PMs.

[budozee]

Hey guys I found a link of this thread in e-budo.com and I'm amazed that heart of a lion still believes that his martial art is real after being presented with facts that say otherwise. I guess heart of a Lion just walked away humiliated that’s why I guess he has never responded after all of these years.

[Heart of Lion]

Maybe I haven't written anything lately is because I have a life to lead. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has to work or go to school. These "facts" that are presented, over and over again, are based on criticisms of the website (how it's badly translated, accusations that it's hiding something because it's underconstruction), and what little information you can find online. I have had enough with trying to convince you that Tsuji-Ryu is a legitimate dojo. No amount of evidence or explanation is enough for you. I try to explain its origins and you disprove it. I try to refer to you other respected members of the martial arts community who know my master and his art and you reject it. You would rather believe the likes of Kaoru, who has proven and humiliated herself time and time again. Just because we do not have a flashy website we are called fakes. Just because we do not take part of some kendo organization, we are lebelled a mcdojo. From the start, we are called the worst of frauds by you. None of you are willing to give the dojo a visit and see for youself. I'm not sure what any one you want. Please understand, I am not trying to "sell you anything" I really don't care whether or not you believe we are real or not. Just don't write us off as a mcdojo.

[Paikea]

Indeed, we are not worthy. Go thou forth and nevermore sully yourselves with the likes of these again.

Please?

[Hyaku]

Thing is you put the thread then answered your own question. I think you will find that most people were not really interested in the first place until you suggested that family lineage promulgated experience.

If this were the case I know a lot of doctors that would be happy to hand on their hospitals and practices to their kids.

[ScottUK]

Just don't write us off as a mcdojo.I agree you're not a McDojo. But you're not what you think you are either. One of the following things is true:

1 - You are what you say you are - a legitimate koryu school
2 - You believe your sensei and you are defending him - despite his fabrications
3 - You are making this all up - and we've all been drawn in to the debate

Personally, I think it is #2

Have you actually checked up on your school's history personally? Not heard it from the master or any of that second-hand crap - actually looked up FOR YOURSELF?

Can you give us, as asked previously, a few names of your techniques? That can't hurt, can it?

[nodachi]

"Can you give us, as asked previously, a few names of your techniques? That can't hurt, can it?"

He started to describe a technique in another thread and then stopped and said he was not allowed to describe the rest of it. I apologize from crossing over the neutral line that I have been trying to walk, but does anyone else have or heard of a sensei who forbid describing their techniques to others? I understand not talking about a technique before someone has the appropriate skill/foundation to learn it, but to not be allowed to talk about a technique to others because it is a "secret waza"... has anyone else heard of this or had sensei who have told them this?

This is one of those wierd warning signs to me, but maybe other people have had a similar experience with a legitimate dojo keeping secrets, but in my experience I have only met sensei who were very open about their family techniques. So I am curious about everyone else's experiences.

[ScottUK]

If you're a member of a school that has 'secrets' you wouldn't go asking questions about the school on an open forum would you? :)

Bloody ninjers...

[Swordsman4Love]

Maybe I haven't written anything lately is because I have a life to lead. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has to work or go to school.


XD if I'm not mistaken you're the one that started this entire conversation in the first place so if you're sooooooo busy which I'm sure you are how could you take the time to practice this "style" and train with your "sensei" if you are so busy you can't take the time to post a ten second forum conversation? It's easy to run away from a problem but is that really the spirit of Kenjitsu? run away from things when you know you're beat? I mean I'm just a noob on this forum that's true but if I was being criticized left and right by everyone even I would have to know something is wrong and would admit my mistake, I mean I'm just giving the point of view of just a stranger that walked in on this conversation I don't know any of you that well but from my point of view and most other point of views it seems that most people here don't agree with you :cool: and yes for no reason at all I feel cool

[Paikea]

XD if I'm not mistaken you're the one that started this entire conversation in the first place so if you're sooooooo busy which I'm sure you are how could you take the time to practice this "style" and train with your "sensei" if you are so busy you can't take the time to post a ten second forum conversation? It's easy to run away from a problem but is that really the spirit of Kenjitsu? run away from things when you know you're beat? I mean I'm just a noob on this forum that's true but if I was being criticized left and right by everyone even I would have to know something is wrong and would admit my mistake, I mean I'm just giving the point of view of just a stranger that walked in on this conversation I don't know any of you that well but from my point of view and most other point of views it seems that most people here don't agree with you :cool: and yes for no reason at all I feel coolOne taco short of a combination plate.

[Swordsman4Love]

wow that was a fast reply >.> and I do like tacos =D they're good

[ScottUK]

Maybe Paikea posted that after seeing your blog entitled "The True Samurai"...?

[Paikea]

Maybe Paikea posted that after seeing your blog entitled "The True Samurai"...?Awww...you're onto me. I especially loved the bit about Shiranui-Ryu.

[ScottUK]

No, I like the katana that has taken a beating... :D

[ScottUK]

No, scratch that. This is my favourite bit...

"My name is Allan my enemies call me Zabuza and my friends call me uhhh Allan I'm a half Korean and half White and I was born in Okinawa, Japan, ASIAN REPRESENT!!!! O_o and I'm a dragon and Libra if that matters >_>, I will prove to you the power of the Shiranui-Ryu if you manage to make me angry which is very difficult :P "

http://www.xanga.com/guestbook.aspx?user=zabuza5882

Hehe, Allan/Zabusa, you da man.

[Kingofmyrrh]

I tried calling Kendra last night but I guess her phone is out of minutes or something so I'll try again tonight as usual lol well I'm out love you Kendra
I suspect that a lack of minutes is not the problem here...

[splice]

I have had enough with trying to convince you that Tsuji-Ryu is a legitimate dojo. No amount of evidence or explanation is enough for you.
The fact is that you've done a disservice to your art by trying to defend it without having solid grounds to do so. Your faux-pas about the battle of Sekigahara is just one example. There is no proof either way, but you have as little legit information supporting your style as others have against your style.

Regardless of all that, I know I don't have definitive evidence either way, but a lot of doubts based on your statements.

I can definitively tell you that if you practice mae and Oi-kaze, along with the rest of the kata I named (migi, hidari, ushiro, yae gaki, uke nagashi, kaishaku, tsuke komi, tsuki kage, nuki uchi), then you are practicing Omori ryu, a set of waza that is part of Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu and Muso Shinden Ryu. This set of waza was founded by Omori Rokurozaemon Masamitsu in late 17th century/early 18th century. It was taught to Hayashi Rokudayu Morimasa, 9th soke of Muso Jikiden Ryu, who taught the set as part of the school's curriculum.

If this is what you practice, and you are told this is Tsuji ryu, you should do your own research instead of trusting your sensei implicitely. By teaching something and passing it on as his family's creation, this Tsuji sensei is spitting on the legacy of well-known and respected swordsmen.

It's well and good that you love your sensei; however, if you take all that he says at face value without ever considering it critically, you can easily be misled. And when you are misled, you aren't just hurting others by spreading disinformation, you're hurting yourself by not allowing yourself to find what you really want, and instead get involved with what you find, regardless of merit or authenticity.

[Heart of Lion]

The bit about Sekigahara was a mistake, which should have been Okehazama. I made note that this was a typo after it was posted. I'm sure I'm not the only one to make a mistake.

Yes, I am learning those techniques, but I did not say that my Sensei labelled those as Tsuji-Ryu. Some techniques, he has taught me which he has specifically said to be styles unique to the Tsuji-Ryu. For example, there is the standard jodan swing which starts from a 45 degree or so angle starting from the forehead down to the waist area ending with the sword parallel to the ground, and there is the Tsuji-Ryu variation to the jodan swing. Sensei is teaching me waza that is standard or common to many ryus, such as mae, oi kaze, etc., along with styles non-existent outside of our ryu.

[Heart of Lion]

I don't remember most of the Japanese names of the techniques I've learned. Some of the common techniques that I've learned are:

mae (enemy in front)
(enemy to the left)
(enemy to the right)
(enemy to the rear)
kaeshaku
oi kaze,


Some techniques that I have learned need a partner, I can't remember their names, I'll list them later.

[ScottUK]

No, you are learning MJER. Face it - your sensei is fleecing you...

[Heart of Lion]

There you go again. As soon as I write something, you quickly label me as something else because you believe that you are right.

[Heart of Lion]

Go ahead and tell me that only the MJER school uses these techniques and that there are NO OTHER SCHOOLS that use either these moves or strikingly similar ones.

[ScottUK]

True, but these waza are fairly common and are often taught. Many people on here know them.

Post us the names of your SECRET waza.

[ScottUK]

Go ahead and tell me that only the MJER school uses these techniques and that there are NO OTHER SCHOOLS that use either these moves or strikingly similar ones.OK.

ONLY MJER PRACTICES THE FOLLOWING WAZA:

Mae
Migi
Hidari
Ushiro
Yaegaki
Ukenagshi
Kaishaku
Tsukikomi
Tsukekage
Oikaze
Nukiuchi

There are other styles who do similar kata but with completely different names. There are other styles that practice similar techniques, but then again there are only so many ways to introduce steel to flesh... :D

You
Are
Being
Taught
MJER

Here endeth the lesson.

[pgsmith]

I have had enough with trying to convince you that Tsuji-Ryu is a legitimate dojo. ... ~ snip out whining ~ ... Please understand, I am not trying to "sell you anything" I really don't care whether or not you believe we are real or not.
Liar!
You said you are done, and you said you don't care. However, you're still here arguing. This says that your previous statement was a lie. The question is ... Why do you care? If you believed in what you were being taught, you wouldn't care what a bunch of strangers have to say. You obviously care and are trying very hard to convince someone ... anyone ... that your school is legitimate. This tells me that you aren't so sure about what you're learning, and are desperately hoping that everyone else on this board is wrong.

You just have to face it head on. If you really like what you're learning, ignore the rest of the Japanese sword arts community and concentrate on your training. If you aren't so sure, begin your own investigation. Perhaps you'll find an art you are more comfortable with.

[splice]

Go ahead and tell me that only the MJER school uses these techniques and that there are NO OTHER SCHOOLS that use either these moves or strikingly similar ones.

There are other schools that have techniques called mae, ukenagashi. However, I don't believe there are any other schools that teach the set of 11 techniques I have listed; mae, migi, hidari, ushiro, yae gaki, ukenagashi, kaishaku, tsuke komi, tsuki kage, oikaze, nukiuchi. Muso Shinden Ryu has sensibly the same techniques (logical, since they were the same style before being split), but with different names; Shohatto, Sato, Uto, Atarito, Inyoshintai, Ryuto, Junto, Gyakuto, Seichuto, Koranto, Gyakute Inyoshintai, Nukiuchi.

If you are practicing the 11 techniques listed, and they are named to you as such, then you are doing Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu, no argument about it.

Regardless, when you practice Traditional Japanese Swordsmanship, you practice one style; you do not practice waza "standard or common to many ryu" (and the set of waza listed is MJER only anyway). There are exceptions to this rule in the form of the ZNIR Toho and the ZNKR Seitei Iai, but these are set especially designed to be used as common sets within dojo that are part of the organization.

You can believe (and do) what you wish. To those who have knowledge and experience, the matter is clear.

[Hyaku]

Go ahead and tell me that only the MJER school uses these techniques and that there are NO OTHER SCHOOLS that use either these moves or strikingly similar ones.

Well I have Mae migi hidari ushiro X 2 in Kageryu. But....... for example mae is call kairoken. Other ryu do have these waza but with different names.

With your names? It's MJER that you do either well or badly, badly if your teacher has chose to change things he can't do correctly. Or out of stupidity as you cant change waza in 2006. You would have to kill people to try it out.

And to say yet again family lineage or being Japanese wont help him either. If anything it makes him more of a dick head bastardizing his own culture.

Sorry too be so harsh But I don't get blinded by Japanese people who wear traditional clothing to promote their own ideas maintaining its "traditional"

[Swordsman4Love]

I suspect that a lack of minutes is not the problem here...

yeah you were right about that *sighs* but yeah that's over now...kind of >.> I mean we're still friends and all but yeah <.< it's complicated >.> but yeah I am the man that is true =D

[kendonewbie]

Does anyone else have or heard of a sensei who forbid describing their techniques to others?
Yeah...Ashida Kim...>_>.

Anyway...Heart of Lion...just a bit of advice. At least consider what everyone is saying. Heck, try visiting another dojo and compare what goes on there to what your being taught. Or, at the very least, ask your sensei about his teachings.