Fighting from jodan?

[Nakura]

Hi guys,

As you've probably guessed, I'm new to this forum and this is my first post.

I've been practicing kendo consistently for the past six, almost seven years and would like to start learning to fight from jodan but am unsure if I'm ready. I can usually hold my own in a fight but, depending on the dojo I practice at, I tend to get kicked more often than not. I've got the impression that it's largely up to the sensei: I've never seen my sensei fight from jodan or teach anyone else to do so and yet the sensei at another dojo I go to regularly is teaching this to a guy who's been practicing for just over a year...

Any thoughts? What is the general opinion of other kendoka?

[tantadi]

I would also like to know what you need for "going jodan"...I've heard that one criteria is long experience, but I guess that there are other criterias as well.

[JSchmidt]

Why do you want to learn jodan?

[Nakura]

I really just want to know what it's like. I've had a few opponents who fought me from jodan (and, unsurprisingly, they kicked me round the dojo every time) and I'd like to have the experience and to see if it's worth having in one's repertoire...plus it just looks cool :D

[Mr. Donigan]

I have heard that most dojos don't teach jodan, until you have tested for and achieved your shodan or nidan. But to quote many a person in this forum, the best thing to do is... "ask your sensei".

[Musha]

I would also like to ask the same question.

Heres the drift of a related question from Hide's Japanese kendo forum:

A guy called Koichi said he wanted to learn jodan but his teacher is too busy to teach it to him.

Hide-sensei said basically the best thing to learn is:

Kamae
Ashi sabaki
Furi oroshi
Suburi
Fumikomi

Although I wouldn't suggest it. It would be different with a sensei but Jodan is quite different from chudan and doing it alown would be quite difficult.

It would be best to ask a sensei first.

Koichi says

Thanks I guess I better ask a sensei with more experience and doing it alown would be tough.

My sensei's busy but I'll try and ask him.

Hide rounds it off by saying your sensei is your guide so when he says 'Go and take jodan' and gives permision it when it's OK.

[Musha]

I'm interested in how other people started jodan. JSchmidt has been learning and The great I am is teaching jodan to afew people too.
Did all your sensei say one day, 'go take up jodan?'

[The great I AM]

I'm interested in how other people started jodan. JSchmidt has been learning and The great I am is teaching jodan to afew people too.
Did all your sensei say one day, 'go take up jodan?'

A the joys of being taken slightly out of context. I'm teaching one guy who without jodan would not do kendo because of stuff wrong with his ankles. Though I have a smidgen (and only a small smidgen mind you) of experience in doing jodan, I am being helped by a couple of more experienced people, notably a mate of mine who did Jodan in highschool in chiba, and my senpai (who now lives in Belgium) who I ask advice from occaisionally.

For me I started doing Jodan when I wanted to and thought I could get away with it. It helped that I had a great 5th dan kendoka who had pretty sharp jodan to learn from.

I've since PM'd Nakura anyway (who it turns out practises at UCL twice a week...), and basically said "speak to your sensei".

Oh, and thanks Neil!

[JSchmidt]

Hmm..I'm actually undecided on the issue: Personally, I think that if you do jodan, then you do jodan. Don't 'play' with it. Do it. Having said that, I think that there's a lot of lessons to be learned from jodan. These can (and obviously are) also be learned from chudan, but jodan will highlight those in an extent that chudan really wont do as easily.
First up is distance. Even amongst more experienced people, you'll find that they are relying on having 2 shinais in front of them to tell the distance to the opponent. You take that away and they are literally clawing at empty space, trying to find something to hold on to.
Second is that suddenly you have to use your feet to create opportunities. You can no longer rely on physically manipulating the opponents shinai to create an opening.

On the same note, that also makes jodan very limited. You will mostly rely on debana and oji-waza is extremly limited...and at least as long as you are 'learning', you cannot ever(!) step backwards. Always always always move forwards.

Ideally, you need a teacher. My teacher supports and helps me with the jodan, but he is not a jodan player and not having a jodan teacher has made it an often very frustrating journey.

Jakob

P.S. Where in London do you train?

[Ignatz]

Years ago I asked my teacher about Jodan and he said "Learn chudan first".
Of course the longer I practice the more I realize that I don't know chudan.
I believe that what Jakob says about maai is absolutely correct. I have had the opportunity to train with really good Jodan players and learned that an inch or less is the difference between you scoring or totally missing and getting creamed. Personally I like playing against Jodan because I like hitting kote to their back hand, they don't usually expect it and it is a pretty safe attack.

[MikeW]

I suppose in some ways this is a personal decision thing. I have had sensei that fight occasionally in jodan, but even they don't recommend it as a consistent style. Pretty much all sensei I have talked to it about (ranging mostly from yon dan to nana dan) have told me that to learn jodan you have to do it and learn from your mistakes... but also say that at least 9 times out of 10 that if you are fighting jodan against an oponent that is as good as you, you will lose due to the loss of flexibility in your attack (and by that they mean the loss of variety in the way you can attack your opponent). This, they say, is why jodan is not the dominent form in kendo and is usually relegated to special instances. At this point in my kendo 'career' ( I am only ni dan) I still have so much to learn fighting from chudan that I haven't ever really had an interest in trying jodan. It looks cool tho'. ;)

[Halcyon]

I second what Jakob said about committing oneself to jodan rather than dabbling in it, though I concede it's unclear whether you will "like" it or be "good" at it until you try it for quite a while.

I started jodan when I was nidan, due to an injury in my left hip/lower back that made it extremely painful to push off with my left leg. Rather than halting practice entirely, I asked my sensei if he could teach me jodan, so that I could continue to practice and still give my injury a bit of a rest. My sensei (Kato sensei, kyoshi nanadan) uses mostly chudan, but he learned jodan from Chiba sensei, and is a bit of a monster in jodan as well -- as Jakob can attest to.:shocked:

Even though I still suck at jodan, I believe it has helped me round out my kendo in a number of ways, including:
1. Better understanding of ki-seme, since you don't have the ability to manipulate your opponent's shinai to create opportunities.
2. Better understanding of maai.
3. Better tenouchi in my left hand. This is also mutually complementary with practicing iai.
4. Better understanding of how to fight someone who is in jodan, if I choose to do it in chudan, since I have a better feel for what jodan's vulnerabilities are.

[Old Warrior]

I second what Jakob said about committing oneself to jodan rather than dabbling in it, though I concede it's unclear whether you will "like" it or be "good" at it until you try it for quite a while.

I started jodan when I was nidan, due to an injury in my left hip/lower back that made it extremely painful to push off with my left leg. Rather than halting practice entirely, I asked my sensei if he could teach me jodan, so that I could continue to practice and still give my injury a bit of a rest.

Good post and one I can relate to. I have taken flak because I started nito 3 mos. into my kendo journey (there are those who think it was not appropriate). But, my reality, was like yours, in that my left knee was just about destroyed in a motorcycle accident and I can't pust off of it. It was clear to my teacher (a 7th Dan) that I was never going to be much good at chudan, no matter how hard I tried. As a matter of fact, without a knee brace, I couldn't do any kendo. So, by studying the unusual (nito), I have found a place that allows me to be competitive with everyone within a couple ranks of me. The fact that I do something different, presents a welcomed challenge to my dojangmates and even our guests. And since I only do nito, rather than dabble a bit, my progress may be slow, but I am getting better (be it at a snail's pace).

[MikeW]

Kudos to both you Old Warrior and Halcyon that you have kept going forward with your kendo despite the physical hardships you have described! I'm sure it would have been easy to give it up but to your credit you have decided on a differnt path. Also kudos to your sensei in not just allowing, but helping you to move forward.

[Nakura]

Thanks to all of you! I had a feeling this was the general opinion about fighting from jodan but I wanted to check...I've also got to say well done to both Old Warrior and Halcyon for continuing with kendo despite your injuries!

[baysun]

You may want to pay strict attention to Kendo Kata, very strict attention and take it more seriously! Ask your sensei why "this is happening"/ and "why that is being done" (???) in each movement of the kendo kata. Your sensei IS teaching you Hidari -/Migi Jodan NOW, if he or she is teaching you Kata. If you practice kata at least 4/5 times a day , it will open secret doors to untold understanding for many kamae including Jodan.
Kataoka Sensei from Shikoku, Japan and NYC Kendo Club taught me some of these things and it was fantastic/mind boggling!!!!

In Japan, there is also a kata class for nana dan sensei led by hachi-dan. When they have this class I am downstairs with the lowly go-dan/ yondan group!!!
Though the hidari jodan in the kata and fighting hidari jodan can (and do) differ, it's a great place to begin. Also check Chiba Sensei DVD #3 (hidari jodan), the phone #is 072-223-6133 (Osaka)... A key word that I've heard in Japanese DOJO recently is the English word> IMAGE<
The DVD is ¥10,000 and in Japanese/not sure about the format. (If I were living outside Japan, I'd invest in a Multi Format DVD player.U can buy Japanese DVD playr US 100.00> I have basic translation of Chiba DVD for anyone. VERY INTERESTING...
BaySun
I apologize for not returning private messages/computer problems

[Koki]

http://www.halifaxkendo.org/Jodanwaza/jodan.pdf

Somewhere to start....

[Kaoru]

Hi mina-san,

Sorry for interrupting your discussion, but I've got a Jodan question that has been bugging me ever since I saw it done for the first time at the MWKF Taikai.

Sugawara-sensei was fighting Jodan, and he had his left foot forward. I couldn't see any details so I have no idea which Jodan he was fighting from, so I have no idea what each has to do with the feet, if it does have anything to do with them. I am just dying to know why his left foot was forward.

I know absolutely nothing about fighting in Jodan, so I apologise for a silly question. And, I also apologise for a little thread drift in the discussion. *bow*

Domo arigato gozaimasu!

Kaoru

[The great I AM]

Hi mina-san,

Sorry for interrupting your discussion, but I've got a Jodan question that has been bugging me ever since I saw it done for the first time at the MWKF Taikai.

Sugawara-sensei was fighting Jodan, and he had his left foot forward. I couldn't see any details so I have no idea which Jodan he was fighting from, so I have no idea what each has to do with the feet, if it does have anything to do with them. I am just dying to know why his left foot was forward.

I know absolutely nothing about fighting in Jodan, so I apologise for a silly question. And, I also apologise for a little thread drift in the discussion. *bow*

Domo arigato gozaimasu!

Kaoru

The tendency when using jodan is to fight with your left foot forward. As katatewaza generally is left handed, if you stamp with your left foot forward and not your right then you have a longer distance with which to fight from. This is the biggest advantage jodan has.

[Hisham]

IMHO it's not a tendency, if you use hidari jodan your left foot is forward, the opposit is true regarding normal jodan.

[The great I AM]

IMHO it's not a tendency, if you use hidari jodan your left foot is forward, the opposit is true regarding normal jodan.

Note how neither I nor Kaoru mentioned Hidari or "normal" (migi) jodan. And what exaclty is "normal" jodan? Same as normal chudan? You imply that hidari jodan is not normal when in fact the vast majority of people who use jodan even vaguely regularly at all all fight with the left foot forward. In fact, even in kata "not-normal"hidari jodan is the one used most.

[Hisham]

Note how neither I nor Kaoru mentioned Hidari or "normal" (migi) jodan. And what exaclty is "normal" jodan? Same as normal chudan? You imply that hidari jodan is not normal when in fact the vast majority of people who use jodan even vaguely regularly at all all fight with the left foot forward. In fact, even in kata "not-normal"hidari jodan is the one used most.

By "normal" i meant migi jodan and i didn't imply what you said, sorry for the misunderstanding. In general when you talk about jodan you mean both hidari and migi or just one of them? It might be a stupid question but my last post was an attempt to understand what you stated.

[JSchmidt]

Well, in my book, in shinai kendo, hidari-jodan is normal jodan (Purely by being the most common). With kata, it has to be specified :)

Jakob

[Hisham]

Well, in my book, in shinai kendo, hidari-jodan is normal jodan (Purely by being the most common). With kata, it has to be specified :)

Jakob

I try to be as accurate as possible in my posts but i did screw up by choosing the word "normal", and i can't but agree with you. I guess i'll have to see more jodan kendoka in action to understand what Gibbo meant because i can't quite visualize it, maybe it the latter has to do with the fact that my head is saturated these days.

[The great I AM]

By "normal" i meant migi jodan and i didn't imply what you said, sorry for the misunderstanding. In general when you talk about jodan you mean both hidari and migi or just one of them? It might be a stupid question but my last post was an attempt to understand what you stated.

Ok then, but I was just puzzled as to why you would call migi jodan normal over hidari jodan. What makes it the normal kamae when speaking of jodan, and what makes the other side not normal? Just wandering what made you come to the conclusion that you did?

[The great I AM]

I try to be as accurate as possible in my posts but i did screw up by choosing the word "normal", and i can't but agree with you. I guess i'll have to see more jodan kendoka in action to understand what Gibbo meant because i can't quite visualize it, maybe it the latter has to do with the fact that my head is saturated these days.

Oops, previous one posted at the same time....

[Hisham]

Sorry for the double post which is due today to a technical problem with my data processing speed:tired:


Well, in my book, in shinai kendo,

Jakob
Good one Jakob.:laugh:

[JSchmidt]

Sorry for the double post which is due today to a technical problem with my data processing speed:tired:


Good one Jakob.:laugh:

Hmm? I actually meant that.

[The great I AM]

Good one Jakob.:laugh:

Now you've completley puzzled me, and I have absolutley no idea what the hell you are talking about.

[LarsCW]

The last class of 2005 van Hattum sensei decided to teach all in bogu some jodan which was my first taste of jodan.

It was a single handed technique.

We would both start in chudan no kamea so we would have the correct ma-ai and then one would go to jodan and go for men.

I was lucky enough to have some very experianced sempai as my motodachi when it was my turn so I learned alot from it.

Strangely the fumikomi with the left foot didn't feel strange to me but it was the way to hold the shinai above your head that gave me the most problems but my sempai helped alot on that.

In this last keiko we did alot of one handed techniques because we had another dojo to train in with a concrete floor instead of the one with the wooden floor we normally have on tuesdays.

[Rurouni Kenshin]

Lars, did you step back with your right foot, so your left was in front from chudan to jodan? I always thought - forgive my noobness if Im wrong - that ma'ai in jodan was different - greater - than that in chudan.

[Usagi San]

Once I ask my sensei what was necessary to do good jodan kamae.
He answered: good chudan kamae.
Anyway, I insisted a little (a few years) and he realized that I was not trying to be "cool" or just different and started helping me with it. Today I fight in jodan-kamae frequently. Specialy in championships.:evil:

[JSchmidt]

Once I ask my sensei what was necessary to do good jodan kamae.
He answered: good chudan kamae.

On the same note, jodan has done wonders for my chudan. They're both still kendo!!!

[LarsCW]

Lars, did you step back with your right foot, so your left was in front from chudan to jodan? I always thought - forgive my noobness if Im wrong - that ma'ai in jodan was different - greater - than that in chudan.

No, if I remember correct you step forward with left and then the shinai goes up with the shinai slightly off to the right. Then when you strike the right hand goes to the hara and you do fumikomi with left.

Yesterday they practised it again but sensei deceided this time I had to do it from chudan.

I think it's a wise decision as I'm far from ready to do this.

A sempai tryed some jodan against me in jigeiko but luckily I was able to see his motives in time and tryed to hit men as he went for mine. :-)

[Rurouni Kenshin]

I would love to learn jodan eventually but its not because it seems cool or different......I know I'm faaaaaar from ready for it now; Its because my left leg is over an inch shorter than the right leg and its complicating to do correct rightfoot fumikomi. When I have my left foot back it causes a great gap between my heel and the floor automatically to compensate the differential. When I stand completely straight on my longer right leg I'm basically in Kendo stance with my feet next to eachother if you get what I mean. When I move my left foot back my foot is between 45 degrees and vertical and I cant get enough boost to the front. I have long legs yet my step is way to short because of the fact that my left foot reaches the floor too early or I have to lift my right leg up real high to avoid that. Sometimes my foot slams into the floor too early and I lack distance or it hits to hard and I get offbalance.

When I used to play basketball I was mainly righthanded and jumped with my short left leg and that sucked; when I jumped with my right leg I jumped like 5-7 inches higher......

I believe - cant be sure lacking experience - that fighting from jodan would be more appropriate for me..............

[JSchmidt]

I would love to learn jodan eventually but its not because it seems cool or different......I know I'm faaaaaar from ready for it now; Its because my left leg is over an inch shorter than the right leg and its complicating to do correct rightfoot fumikomi.

It makes virtually no difference. It means that you need to bend your right knee a few more degrees.

Jakob

[Rurouni Kenshin]

I respect your oppinion but as long you dont have the same problem i dont believe you can fully understand this complication.
Having had this defect from birth (its the diagonal hipjointbonethinggy thats longer, not the actual leg itself) you must understand during my 28 years of life it had alot of side effects on my entire body and posture. For example my hips arent straight which leads to 4 S-turns in my spine and some neckjoints that tend to lock, and when I put both feet flat on the ground theres like 2 inches difference in my shoulders which get way too tence because of this.
Having had to slightly limp my entire life had its consequence on my muscles in my legs and my knees aswell. All my joints seem to overstretch (another defect from birth) and my leftknee tends to overstretch/lock when I jump/push with my leg.

Kendo as it is does a great good deal on improving my posture and I regret not starting with it half a lifetime ago.........

[Rurouni Kenshin]

No offence JS but I just measured the difference...........
I did a normal rightfoot step and marked the spot; then i did a leftfoot step with even less the effort and guess what........my leftfoot step with less effort had way less stress on the backleg and it was over 20cm further.
I guess it kinda does make a difference....

[JSchmidt]

No offence JS but I just measured the difference...........
I did a normal rightfoot step and marked the spot; then i did a leftfoot step with even less the effort and guess what........my leftfoot step with less effort had way less stress on the backleg and it was over 20cm further.
I guess it kinda does make a difference....

Try again. A 1 inch leg/hip difference does not equate with a 20cm step difference.

[Rurouni Kenshin]

I guess mechanics and mathematics isnt your strongest side....... if my legs would be unbendable sticks, I wouldnt even be able to make a step with my right foot forward as it would smash into the ground. The way I'm standing now leaves me with an overstretched back left leg and a heel thats way too high off the ground; improper kamae according to me. When I step forward with right and push with left, my knee overstretches the wrong way and increases the negative distance, forcing me to bend my frontleftleg decreasing the steppingdistance. Also it causes greater stress on my calf and ankle as my foot is overstretched.
Compare this to stepping forward with left where I can keep my back right heel close to the floor and use this to 'spring' forward with left. Also the length of this leg alows me a greater stepping angle thus increasing the distance.

I tried it a couple of times and all leftfoot steps are somewhere between 15-20 cm further..........

[JSchmidt]

I guess mechanics and mathematics isnt your strongest side.......

Whatever dude. I do biomechanical setups for a living.

[Rurouni Kenshin]

Try again. A 1 inch leg/hip difference does not equate with a 20cm step difference.

That was very well argumented then...............if you do biomecha for a living I'd expect more than it does cuz I say so

[JSchmidt]

Stay away from the cheap insults, and you might get a reply. For now, you go on the plonk-list, with the rest of the manga-kenshi-wannabees.

Jakob

[Rurouni Kenshin]

For your information, you're the one doing the insulting. Have no clue what the manga-kenshi-wannabees remark had to do with my stepping distance, other than your ego being bruised and having to throw a simplistic remark by seeing my name/avatar. Wonder what you have said if that was different.

Oh and btw, I saw Kenshin after I started doing Iaido..........

[Kapplow]

I find jodan to be easier when I stand on my hands and use my feet to grip the shinai....


Theres an old kendo saying. "The sword is the mind." No matter how hard you train, your kendo will always be a little different than someone elses kendo. This is because EVERYBODY minds are different due to the experences we encounter in life. It's silly to argue over things like trival mathmatical differences. I was enjoying this thread until now. Both of you are different paths toward the same destination. I hope you guys can stop this arguement and get back on topic so we can all share our knowledge and learn from each other.

[Rurouni Kenshin]

I agree Kap.....

[LarsCW]

For your information, you're the one doing the insulting. Have no clue what the manga-kenshi-wannabees remark had to do with my stepping distance, other than your ego being bruised and having to throw a simplistic remark by seeing my name/avatar. Wonder what you have said if that was different.

Oh and btw, I saw Kenshin after I started doing Iaido..........

I think you totally handled this situation wrong, JSchmidt was trying to help you and what do you do with it?

You tell him what he can't know while you don't even know the man.

Just my opinion.

[moocow65]

Manga-kenshi-wannabees. Woah. I wannabee like Roronoa Zoro. So far the only waza of his that I can incorporate into my kendo is the Tora-Gari. For right now I'll have to stick with my Niji-Giri (Rainbow Slash), Air Jordan, and my newest waza, The Sundance Men. If you want to see a demonstration, visit my dojo! You might also get to see the Mr. Kurukuru Bunny Men! :) :)

[Lloromannic]

Manga-kenshi-wannabees. Woah. I wannabee like Roronoa Zoro. So far the only waza of his that I can incorporate into my kendo is the Tora-Gari. For right now I'll have to stick with my Niji-Giri (Rainbow Slash), Air Jordan, and my newest waza, The Sundance Men. If you want to see a demonstration, visit my dojo! You might also get to see the Mr. Kurukuru Bunny Men! :) :)
Is that invitation open to everyone? I have family in SoCal and that would be a nice excuse to visit them.

[misterkurukuru]

well now that you mention it bunny men's og name was kaeru men stolen from aoki's kaeru punch. sengoku muso waza well is from sengoku muso. My new donguri koro koro waza is pretty good.

[KhawMengLee]

well now that you mention it bunny men's og name was kaeru men stolen from aoki's kaeru punch. sengoku muso waza well is from sengoku muso. My new donguri koro koro waza is pretty good.

Why do I feel like I just watched an episode of Kero Kero Gunso?...

[KhawMengLee]

Manga-kenshi-wannabees. Woah. I wannabee like Roronoa Zoro. So far the only waza of his that I can incorporate into my kendo is the Tora-Gari. For right now I'll have to stick with my Niji-Giri (Rainbow Slash), Air Jordan, and my newest waza, The Sundance Men. If you want to see a demonstration, visit my dojo! You might also get to see the Mr. Kurukuru Bunny Men! :) :)

Can I demo my Hansoku waza too?

[Rurouni Kenshin]

I think you totally handled this situation wrong, JSchmidt was trying to help you and what do you do with it?



I might not have handled it correctly but all I did was try to explain my situation. How does telling me that what I say is impossible actually help?



You tell him what he can't know while you don't even know the man.

Just my opinion.

True, I don't know him but on the other hand, he doesnt know me either, yet he told me, without knowing me, that I was mistaking about my own body. He, might be a technical director, or doing biomecha, or for all I care did the last Harry Potter flick, he still doesnt have the right to judge my physiological state just like that and disregard my lifelong observations because "he does biomecha for a living".
Also I wonder what the wannabee remark had to do with anything I said in this thread?

[LarsCW]

I might not have handled it correctly but all I did was try to explain my situation. How does telling me that what I say is impossible actually help?



True, I don't know him but on the other hand, he doesnt know me either, yet he told me, without knowing me, that I was mistaking about my own body. He, might be a technical director, or doing biomecha, or for all I care did the last Harry Potter flick, he still doesnt have the right to judge my physiological state just like that and disregard my lifelong observations because "he does biomecha for a living".
Also I wonder what the wannabee remark had to do with anything I said in this thread?

Don't underestimate what years of experiance do.

I know how my sensei and sempai helped me when I had that fumikomi problem.

I think you should think better next time and fix this issue and hope you can start from a clean sheet.

Say hi to Rogier Geerts he should train at the same dojo as you. He's a very good sempai and I've learned alot from him.

[Rurouni Kenshin]

Don't underestimate what years of experiance do.

I know how my sensei and sempai helped me when I had that fumikomi problem.

I think you should think better next time and fix this issue and hope you can start from a clean sheet.

Say hi to Rogier Geerts he should train at the same dojo as you. He's a very good sempai and I've learned alot from him.

I guess youre right - at least I admit - but I just hate in it general when ppl start judging stuff without the proper agumentation.....so, sorry about that.

And I enjoy practise with Rogier......looking forward to saturdaypractise :tongue: ; Last week it was Rogier and another guy (Edwin) in bogu and me, so I had them 2 all for myself to teach me..... Kinda hope theres gonna be few ppl tomorrow aswell.

Chears

[kanyil]

well now that you mention it bunny men's og name was kaeru men stolen from aoki's kaeru punch. sengoku muso waza well is from sengoku muso. My new donguri koro koro waza is pretty good.

What? no dempsey roll?

[misterkurukuru]

I would if i could:bored:
I am more of an AOkI kind of guy anyways.

i was going to name doguri koro koro to unko samba... that name didnt seem to fly.

[samurai999]

I would if i could:bored:
I am more of an AOkI kind of guy anyways.

i was going to name doguri koro koro to unko samba... that name didnt seem to fly.

Doesn't that depend on the type of unko that is being described?

Tim

[Kaoru]

The tendency when using jodan is to fight with your left foot forward. As katatewaza generally is left handed, if you stamp with your left foot forward and not your right then you have a longer distance with which to fight from. This is the biggest advantage jodan has.

Hi Gibbo-san,

Oh, I see. Thank you very much. But, how do you know if it will be katate waza? Is hidari jodan done only katate only then? Can one do a regular men cut? I didn't see how Sugawara-sensei cut while in jodan, so I honestly don't know what katate has to do with jodan. I know you can do a men cut using katate waza though.

What about the migi jodan that Hisham-san mentioned?

Kaoru

P.S. Gibbo-san, you didn't get hurt did you? I'm asking because you say "Wheelchair Ninja" under your username. I hope not!

[The great I AM]

Hi Gibbo-san,

Oh, I see. Thank you very much. But, how do you know if it will be katate waza? Is hidari jodan done only katate only then? Can one do a regular men cut? I didn't see how Sugawara-sensei cut while in jodan, so I honestly don't know what katate has to do with jodan. I know you can do a men cut using katate waza though.

What about the migi jodan that Hisham-san mentioned?

Kaoru

P.S. Gibbo-san, you didn't get hurt did you? I'm asking because you say "Wheelchair Ninja" under your username. I hope not!

Not hurt, quite the opposite!

A lot of jodan techniques are katate (singlehanded) because the distance involved in doing a one handed cut at full stretch is advantageous compared to two hands (morote) but two handed cuts are stil used, mostly kote after faking men. When I used to do jodan, I was taught to use the thumb of my right hand to fling the shinai forward for extra speed, as far as I was aware this was the norm (at least according to my teacher). There is another way which involves storing the pressure by holding your shinai back with your right hand then releasing when you cut and using the force of the release for the cut, but I never did like that way!

I suppose you could use it for migi jodan too, but why bother with migi jodan? You give up your biggest weapon, which is your increased distance from the combination of left foot forward and katatewaza, unless you swap your hands over, but I've never seen anyone fight like that, though I'm sure they exist somewhere....

[satsumaruma]

Going back to the original posting.

When I went to the Kendo World Championships in Glasgow there was this Italian chap in all white who always went into Hidari Jodan. Well, this went well against the Mexicans but then he came up against the Koreans and the Japanese. Imagine the scene (no, forget the bagpipes), Il kendoka just starts to go into Jodan when....wham ...Kote... the flags go up. Start again, and Il stupido does the same again and of course.....wham....Kote. Its all over. na dthe bizarre thing was that after the Korean had dispensed with him so summarily, he tried the same thing with the Japanese lad and recieved EXACTLY the same treatment.

So my advice is learn lots of things.

Lee

[KhawMengLee]

Going back to the original posting.

When I went to the Kendo World Championships in Glasgow there was this Italian chap in all white who always went into Hidari Jodan. Well, this went well against the Mexicans but then he came up against the Koreans and the Japanese. Imagine the scene (no, forget the bagpipes), Il kendoka just starts to go into Jodan when....wham ...Kote... the flags go up. Start again, and Il stupido does the same again and of course.....wham....Kote. Its all over. na dthe bizarre thing was that after the Korean had dispensed with him so summarily, he tried the same thing with the Japanese lad and recieved EXACTLY the same treatment.

So my advice is learn lots of things.

Lee

I hope he kept doing jodan. Hell, my Sensei's advice to my dojo mate when he asked how to fight against jodan was, "mmmm...keep getting hit," when the guy looked more confused he said, "when you are tired of getting hit, you'll know what to do."

As Emerson says, "Our greatest triumph lies not in never failing but in how we pick ourselves up after the fall."

Actually, after training today we were discussing how pure scoring in jodan is... by this I mean, at the All Japans you'll see points given once in a while for things like a quick kote after taiatari that doesn't look like it connects on the right spot or small cuts( which one Sensei mentioned would not 'cut' if it was a real sword) but with jodan its all big baby! I mean its always gonna be an impressive point scored with jodan...big downswing onto the target.

Heh. I can't get enough of the Kendo Nippon DVD of the all Japan's the Jodan was very impressive...

[Rurouni Kenshin]

Actually, after training today we were discussing how pure scoring in jodan is... by this I mean, at the All Japans you'll see points given once in a while for things like a quick kote after taiatari that doesn't look like it connects on the right spot or small cuts( which one Sensei mentioned would not 'cut' if it was a real sword) but with jodan its all big baby! I mean its always gonna be an impressive point scored with jodan...big downswing onto the target.


Is it kinda like float like a butterfly, sting like a bee? If you gonna sting once you better sting good!

[samurai999]

Manga-kenshi-wannabees. Woah. I wannabee like Roronoa Zoro. So far the only waza of his that I can incorporate into my kendo is the Tora-Gari. For right now I'll have to stick with my Niji-Giri (Rainbow Slash), Air Jordan, and my newest waza, The Sundance Men. If you want to see a demonstration, visit my dojo! You might also get to see the Mr. Kurukuru Bunny Men! :) :)

I saw it being utilized well at the tryouts. I think somebody pointed out the house of pain, the air jordan and I saw the sundance men. That was some good shiet! Good job moocow! :evolved:

Tim

[kanyil]

I would if i could:bored:
I am more of an AOkI kind of guy anyways.

i was going to name doguri koro koro to unko samba... that name didnt seem to fly.

Maybe uppercut from tsubazeriai coupled with a smack-down men-uchi while wolves howl in the background?

[Legionario]

When I went to the Kendo World Championships in Glasgow there was this Italian chap in all white who always went into Hidari Jodan. Well, this went well against the Mexicans but then he came up against the Koreans and the Japanese. Imagine the scene (no, forget the bagpipes), Il kendoka just starts to go into Jodan when....wham ...Kote... the flags go up. Start again, and Il stupido does the same again and of course.....wham....Kote. Its all over. na dthe bizarre thing was that after the Korean had dispensed with him so summarily, he tried the same thing with the Japanese lad and recieved EXACTLY the same treatment.
Excuse me if I ask, but are you sure that the person you are talking about was a member of the italian team? I'm asking because, as far as I know, no one of the italian team fought in white attire in Glasgow; and no one apart from Walter Pomero, who only wears indigo, fights in jōdan no kamae - and he's pretty good at it too.

So I'm guessing if you somehow mistaked that "chap in all white" for an italian while he probably was not.

[A Wadlow]

Any thoughts? What is the general opinion of other kendoka?

Well in my oppinion Jodan is like the Nentendo Wii. It looks fun and "cool" but then you do it and you realise its crap and your wrist hurts.

I think the only prerequisites are having strong wrists and learning it 100%.
People say you have to be good at chudan first because people who have spent 10 years doing chudan who go to jodan for one year are better than a person who did 1 year chudan then jodan for a year. So people get confused and think that you need to do chudan brilliantly before hand. Get that same guy and make him do jodan for 10 and hes going to scat all over the (10 chudan and 1 year jodan) guy.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Get that same guy and make him do jodan for 10 and hes going to scat all over the (10 chudan and 1 year jodan) guy.Really doubt they'd be in the same division - that jodan guy's going to have a hell of a time getting past his shodan exam.

[A Wadlow]

Really doubt they'd be in the same division - that jodan guy's going to have a hell of a time getting past his shodan exam.

I passed shodan while doing Jodan.

[mashu19]

my advise for you is this. be prepared to start from scratch, thats whole experience thing. its a load of.%$$#.. it doesnt count for anything. chudan and jodan are totally different. the only prerequisit is to want to play it. jodan is a different style, so natuarlly the moves are different, and the way you think in a shiai will change, so if you want to learn jodan, i advise you, just be prepared to start kendo over again...though, knowing chudan comes in handy wen your too close to go into jodan. so you have already got a good advantage... go for it