Poll: Left-kote

[AlexM]

I have a question concerning the left kote. Why is it currently considered invalid as a point when the opponent is in chudan no kamae? My sensei told me it's because of some traditional thing (which I now don't remeber). I just remember that we both agreed that making it a valid ippon wouldn't be the end of the world.

So, why should the left kote, despite it being tougher to get because further away, be considered invaild? Please tell me your thoughts.

I'd also like to know what you people would think about changing the rule so that it becomes a valid point when facing someone doing chudan (that's what the pole is for). I'd have no problem with it myself and it would take off some of the ambiguity of it being valid against jodan and nito (hasso too I think) but not once the opponent is in chudan.

[KATSUJIN]

Well....I am not sure why the left kote is only valid at jodan or nito..but I think maybe becos it is easier to protect at chudan....thats why it is only valid at jodan or nito....well....i think that it should be made valid at chudan too....

[mingshi]

Originally posted by KATSUJIN
Well....I am not sure why the left kote is only valid at jodan or nito...

When you raise your Shinai overhead, your left Kote is a few inches nearer to your opponent. Hence it makes more sense for left Kote to be a valid target.

In addition to those two, from other unorthodox Kamae you can think of in Kendo Kata, i.e. Migi-Hasso and Migi-Waki-Kamae, your left hand is far more exposed your opponent.

**************************

Actually I don't quite understand when they say "any Kamae other than Chudan" when left Kote becomes valid... I mean, when you pick on a beginner who's Chudan is a bit "off", either Kensen too high, or Kensen not in the center -- Is that still a Chudan??

Very recently I doubted on the same question, and I try to cut on left kote whenever people get too close. Sometimes the old Mune-tsuki will work too, when they open themselves up way too much. Those are not "valid points", but followed by a Men cut (nidan-waza) that could be. At least make my opponent more aware... But I am still not sure if this is the right thing to do...?

Left Kote and Mune-tsuki --invalid targets that doesn't hurt :)

[Tato]

Actually, I don't have experience enough to answer the Alex's question.

At the same time I think that two ones from Mingshi are interesting, mune-tuski followed by (usually) men seem a good strategy to create an oppenings in the other's stance, but it's "good" kendo? Same thing for left kote, even if in most cases they are too far away for me.


Rei.

[Neil Gendzwill]

The rule on left kote has nothing to do with kamae. That kote becomes legal target as soon as it is raised above the mune, no matter the kamae.

[AlexM]

What if you use a "low" hasso? With the kote kept right below the mune. Doesn't that make the kote valid despite it being below the mune?

That still doesn't answer my question: Why is not a valid ippon ALL THE TIME?

[Confound]

Maybe this is just my ineptitude talking, but I can't imagine being able to hit left kote if your opponent is in chudan kamae (unless they really have an awful kamae). Unless you move to your left, which exposes your right kote as you strike your opponent's left, or come at the kote from below, which would make it hard to strike the right spot, I can't quite figure out how it might be done.

c

[alexpollijr]

Yes, I'll second that. I can't imagine how to hit the left kote in chudan without poking the opponents arm or torso in a most painful manner.

As for munezuki, I'm pretty sure that if you do it against a chudan or jodan player (as far as i know it's no longer valid) intentionally and repeated times, the referee would issue a warning or a foul.

[mingshi]

Originally posted by alexpollijr
I can't imagine how to hit the left kote in chudan without poking the opponents arm or torso in a most painful manner.[/B]

?
Of course you have to move away your opponent's Shinai first... If you can cut Gyaku-do, I don't know why you can't cut left Kote? Isn't Gyaku-do even further away from your opponent?


As for munezuki, I'm pretty sure that if you do it against a chudan or jodan player (as far as i know it's no longer valid) intentionally and repeated times, the referee would issue a warning or a foul. [/QUOTE]

Actually I have been told the same thing (and still doing it :D). Strange that something completely valid yesterday can be considered a foul today.

Okay we'll wait for some senior people to explain this rule...

Subsidiary Rules of Kendo Shiai and Shinpan
(March 2000 version)

Article 13: Datotsu-bui
......
2. The target area of Kote shall be the right forearm (the left forearm, if the opponent holds Shinai with his or her left hand forward) in case of CHudan-no-kamae, or the left and right forearms in the case of other Kamae.

[R Stroud]

IF you want to screw with your opponents mind/timing, hit the left kote when it is below MUNE height. Even if it isn't in a valid location for the point, you can use this hit as the set up for the one that raises flags. For me, if you make it valid all the time I am happy to hit it. If not, I will use it to set up something else. Just like when the MUNE stopped being a point.

[Chusan]

Hope nobody gets upset now, but I like to hit the far-away-kote (not necessarily the left one, since you may chose which hand to place right behind your tsuba, don`t you...) if it`s open.
A hit is a hit. As long as I´m hitting the bogu, things are fine for me. If it were considered ´no-kendo` hitting the ´wrong` wrist, well, why does it have a kote there?? Obviously it is supposed to be a target. And a target is for hitting.
Anyway, hitting the ´wrong` kote is a fine opening if you are finding your way towards men. (Speaking of chudan, since the ´wrong` kote is always a legal target in hasso, jodan, waki, and some more unusual kamae).
BTW: I`ve seen ´wrong` kote-hits getting scored. If guys get datotsu for hitting right beneath the kote (we all know these nice bruises on our ellbows or upper arms), why not getting datotsu for hitting the ´wrong` kote?

[Confound]

The rule is pretty clear, it says that the left kote is only a target when your opponent is not in chudan-kamae, or when they are holding their shinai with the left hand below the tsuba (is this considered southpaw kendo?).

If you are going to use an invalid striking point to set up another strike, or just to put the other person off balance, you might as well start hitting them in the legs and shoulders too. It's rather hard to have it both ways. You're either hitting something that is a legitimate target, or you're just whacking someone for the hell of it.

c

[kendomushi]

I agree with confound. Our instructor teaches us many ways to throw off an opponents timing or balance, but never ever does he teach use an invalid striking point intentionally to set up anything.
The left kote is not as far away as the do when striking gyaku do, but it is far better protected than the do by being behind the tsuba in a correct chudan.
Often times if you manage to distrupt an opponents chudan, they reflexively pull up at the same time. This will give the quick and astute a change for a valid left kote strike as most judges will interpret the left point to be valid as soon as they see the left hand is clearly rising towards the mune or the stance is so completely disrupted that anyone would try for the exposed left kote.

[KhawMengLee]

Actually, I've had wierd run in's with this one. I've tried(and hit) the left kote on my Sensei and another japanese sempai and both said good hit. It was not until I did the same against one of the non japanese senseis did I learn the left kote is not valid in chudan.

Still it is possible to strike it(not really from isoku itto) but once the nakayui cross its close enough to hit.

Still, would love to hear from the ppl in the know why this isn't a valid point?

[Paburo]

left kote in chudan is risky and makes you open for several attacks. also, since it's farther and well protected(in chuudan). i think it would make place for accidents and tamago uchis if valid in chuudanno kamae.

the question here is, even if it was a valid ippon, would it be worth risking maai? right now it's a surprise attack cause its not legal, but if it was, the opponent would be aware of it, and i think it wouldnt come up as an effective waza whatsoever(in chuudan, of course).

about different kamae. i don't really pay much attention to that. i was told to hit the kote that was closer to me, so i do that. it makes sense.

(lately i came up with a combo against(slow) men uchi. hidarigote + migigote + gyakudou :D
feedback??)

[Old Warrior]

"Our instructor teaches us many ways to throw off an opponents timing or balance, but never ever does he teach use an invalid striking point intentionally to set up anything."

Are you saying that such a technique is illegal or just "bad" Kendo or neither? What about a feint to a non target area?Which leaves me to a still another thought - is innovation "bad" Kendo.

[munenmuso]

I guess not. But crazy kendo is sometimes weird but permissible. Just don't do it with your sensei.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by mingshi
Okay we'll wait for some senior people to explain this rule...

Subsidiary Rules of Kendo Shiai and Shinpan
(March 2000 version)

Article 13: Datotsu-bui
......
2. The target area of Kote shall be the right forearm (the left forearm, if the opponent holds Shinai with his or her left hand forward) in case of CHudan-no-kamae, or the left and right forearms in the case of other Kamae.
That's the letter of the law but how do you define "other kamae"? Is the left kote legal when the aite is in seigan rather than chudan? I think not. The way I've had it explained to me by several senior people it that it becomes legal when it is above the mune.

[kendomushi]

"Are you saying that such a technique is illegal or just "bad" Kendo or neither? What about a feint to a non target area?Which leaves me to a still another thought - is innovation "bad" Kendo."

Basically I think it is ineffective kendo. Granted it can lead to an attack, but I feel that if I can see a chance and get in on an invalid point, I can just as effectively find a valid point to try an attack against. Also I will be testing for 4-dan this autumn and one thing every sensei has told me is that I will not pass if I make attacks that cannot score (no wild uncontrolled attacks, no blindly striking in the hope of a point, no striking an invalid point). So such an attack would only hurt me. However, a feint is a different matter entirerly I think. It is not an attack, it is an action designed to draw the opponent off guard, not confuse or unbalance him with actions he knows aren't valid strikes.

[Old Warrior]

I'm struggling with a lack of talent and being 30 years older than my classmates. The only advantage I have is many many years of European fencing experience and years of Shotokan Karate training. The kids are faster, more flexible and their eyesight is better. Frequently I can "feel" their movement and I just can't get out of the way or launch my own attack before they are upon me.

So, I ask myself, what quality do I bring to the table that can improve my Kumdo. As of this moment, given the nature of the art, I haven't found it. Perhaps in time I will. But, I don't believe I will ever be able to do the basic movements cleaner or faster than young adults who are 1/3 my age. I am searching for what I can best focus my practice. In the meantime, I just show up and try my best.

[JSchmidt]

Old Warrior, at your stage, I wouldnt worry too much about what qualities you bring, rather worry about learning the basics.
You will certainly be able to do the basics just as clean as anyone.
One of the guys I just to practice with, returned to Kendo at the tender age of 57, not having practiced for almost 30 years and he did just fine.

Jakob

[KhawMengLee]

Yeah, wasn't there a post about one of the 7th Dans in the UK who only got his shodan at 30 and started kendo around 27. Goes to show age isn't everything just the will must be there.

[Inouye02]

hey old warrior , don't worry about a thing just keep practicing and you'll be fine , 1 of our sensei's started at the age of 50, he's a 7dan now , still goes at least 3x's a week , and still gives the youngsters the smackdown..

[William Honda]

Old Warrior,

First item on the agenda, stop being a martyr. With that mental attitude you will not advance. I know that sensei who began his kendo at 50. His fingers are all messed up from gout and his knees don’t work well. He can hardly get up from seiza.

Complain about age? Never heard a peep. Your age, slowness, fighting with younger people is a constant theme. It goes beyond self-effacing humor. Get over it. I think it is holding you back.

I am most positive that when you put that attitude away, you will get better. Try it. Because if you think it, you be it.

Regards,

William

[M.K. Kawai]

Old Warrior,

I know the sensei that Inouye and William Honda are talking about and I respect him for what he does at his age. Not to mention he's a blast to be with after practice. In fact, he acts younger than most of the Kenshi at both his dojo and mine. You should hear some of his colorful explainations on doing some of the techniques.:D

BTW, there is a 7 Dan sensei at my dojo who is 50 years my senior and can still kick my butt!:rolleyes: Just focus on the basics and you'll do just fine.

Peace...

MKK

[kendomushi]

I know a gentleman, now passed, Kobayashi sensei here, he started kendo over the age of 50, developed mild parkinsons, hands twitched like dry leaves in a strong wind all the time. But give him a shinai, and suddenly he looked like a rock solid 25 year old. I new him when he was in his 70s and a go-dan. He was a roku-dan when he passed.
Just stick with the practice, focus on the basics, forget the overly fancy stuff, good to know, but work hardest on the basics. You'll eventually find that some techniques you develop speed and timing that will best the youngsters I think.

[Confound]

I was under the impression that this thread was about left kote, and its validity, or invaildity, not the trials and tribulations of age?

c

[stinkyKote]

Originally posted by kendomushi

I agree with confound. Our instructor teaches us many ways to throw off an opponents timing or balance, but never ever does he teach use an invalid striking point intentionally to set up anything.




Originally posted by Confound

I was under the impression that this thread was about left kote, and its validity, or invaildity, not the trials and tribulations of age?



Indeed.. back on tangent: Sometimes at my dojo we do kote-men drills where the kote hit is on the opposite side, usually on the tsuba... I do know of some more experienced players that sometimes open with a strike to the left kote to set up kote men ... hmm.. I think I will ask my sensei about this tommorrow if I remember... seems like an interesting topic...

[misterkurukuru]

you cant hit left kote for a point unless the other persons left hand is above thier chest. even if you did hit it, it would be a clean cut. OH I now that 7 dan sensei too! he has been beating the crap out of me from the time i started kendo at 8-9 years old!
He still swings the jack hammer to this day!
p.s.
yaba daba doooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
gahahahahaha!!!

[Inouye02]

i'll ask the favorite hachidan sensei friday night ..

mrkurukuru iku no ?

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by stinkyKote


Indeed.. back on tangent: Sometimes at my dojo we do kote-men drills where the kote hit is on the opposite side, usually on the tsuba... I do know of some more experienced players that sometimes open with a strike to the left kote to set up kote men ... hmm.. I think I will ask my sensei about this tommorrow if I remember... seems like an interesting topic...
Hitting kote from the other side is just a nice drill for harai-men. Keeps you from getting your kensen way off line as so many people do.

[hamish]

Hitting non-target areas (ie left kote) and then going for a valid strike, or other kinds of feints is all very good against a lower level, reactive opponent. However, if you try it on anyone of a decent level, you'll get cleaned up.

Echoing the most common theme throughout most of the forums, work on the basics! True strength comes from your kihon.

I don't mean to say not to try and innovate, as that is important too, just don't neglect the basics for tricks.

[Old Warrior]

"Hitting non-target areas (ie left kote) and then going for a valid strike, or other kinds of feints is all very good against a lower level, reactive opponent. However, if you try it on anyone of a decent level, you'll get cleaned up."

Why? The most troublesome opponents I faced in 20 years of epee fencing were those who were of modest skill and totally unpredictable. Youngsters with lightning reflexes and speed were particularly troublesome. I don't question the wisdom of practicing basics, especially before working on "tricks", but isn't there some merit to practicing the unusual?

[misterkurukuru]

if he is going ot be there...NO!

[Inouye02]

wakarimashita

[hamish]

>question the wisdom of practicing basics, especially before working on "tricks", but isn't there some merit to practicing the unusual?

There's certainly nothing wrong with it, but its easy to focus on the fun stuff over getting the fundamentals right, that's all.

Fighting high school kids and students here, you get to see all sorts of weird and wonderful stuff, but there's a totally different feeling to being beaten by something out of left field than there is to the men that comes straight down the middle. For me that's the money shot!

[Old Warrior]

"there's a totally different feeling to being beaten by something out of left field than there is to the men that comes straight down the middle. For me that's the money shot!"

Since part of successfully teaching is maintaining student interest there are considerations beyond pure art. The above strikes me as the position of one who has already acheived great skill and who is a classisist. I teach fencing (European). I stress all of the basics and some of them I perceive as inviolate. However, in bouting, if students rely solely upon the techniques they are taught, without some innovation, twist or change of tempo, they will never succeed. While I have no right to speak for Kumdo, I enjoy it most when a student internalizes the basic lessons and shows me something I never considered.

[slidercrank]

Originally posted by Old Warrior
The above strikes me as the position of one who has already acheived great skill and who is a classisist. I teach fencing (European).

Old Warrior:

Having read many of your messages in various forums here, I think your European fencing background have influenced too much in your study of kendo/kumdo.

While you can draw many parallels between fencing and the physical aspects of kumdo, you musn't forget that there is a tremendous spiritual aspect to kumdo. There is a reason they stress the word "do" in ken-do/kum-do. I assume here that you know the two Chinese characters used in the words kendo/kumdo and the meaning of each character. Fencing is a sport. Kumdo/kendo is much more.

As a beginner, you are not expected to grasp the spiritual aspects of kumdo; you are only expected to do exactly what you are told. Eventually, you will understand the philosophy of the whole thing, if you stick around long enough. But that process takes time. As a thinking adult, you, no doubt, will want to accelerate the learning process by analyzing on your own each little thing the teacher said or asked you to do in class. Well, at this point, you simply are not equiped to understand much about kumdo, your age, profession and fencing experience notwithstanding.

It's not to say that you shouldn't think at all. Often, an adult (of reasonable age and physical fitness) progresses faster than a kid precisely because the adult understands the instructions better. But there is a limit to that. When a kumdo student of only several months starts debating the pros and cons of big techniques or small tricks, that student is definitely over-reaching, regardless of his age, talent or IQ.

At this stage of your learing process, your body is still getting used to the motions of BASIC kumdo movements. You may have good eyes for the opponent's move from your fencing days, but your body does not know kumdo enough to do anything about it; nor do you have the timing to execute whatever kumdo moves correctly. Thus, there is no point now for you to consider the "merit to practicing the unusual." If one didn't know how to walk yet, how could one expect to run 100-meter hurdle?

At the beginner's level, the student practices big, straight techniques becuase those are the only things they can do, for only the mastery of those makes possible the small techniques that he learns MUCH later on.

At the more advanced level, the student STILL practices the big, straight techiques, because of the spiritual aspects kendo/kumdo, which was the basis of Hamish's statement that you questioned.

My message isn't meant to spur a debate with you. It's my hope that you can start seeing kumdo with a differect perspective.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by slidercrank

My message isn't meant to spur a debate with you. It's my hope that you can start seeing kumdo with a differect perspective.
Unlikely. Many of us have told him the same things, the reply is always basically "yeah but I can't get a point that way, so based on my fencing experience I want to do X, Y or Z". If I were instructing him, I'd probably have stopped telling him anything by now. If he doesn't want to listen, why bother teaching?

[Old Warrior]

"If I were instructing him, I'd probably have stopped telling him anything by now. If he doesn't want to listen, why bother teaching?"

You guys are really harsh. I go to class 3 days a week and do everything asked with 100% effort, including my turn at floor mopping. I pose some intellectual questions in a respectful manner (to someone other than my teacher), never implying I have greater knowledge, and the best you can do is the above.

An ad hominen retort is the first place people go when they don't have a good answer. The spirituality and traditions of Kumdo are part of its appeal, but it is still a learned skill. Also, it is unlikely that I will ever live long enough or get good enough to be able to truly understand and appreciate the spiritual side. Does that make me a student who is not serious or worthy enough to participate in these discussions? I don't think so. There is some advantage to being older, having raised a family, and had a 30 year successful career - you are not put off easily.

[mingshi]

Originally posted by Hamish
Echoing the most common theme throughout most of the forums, work on the basics! True strength comes from your kihon.


Yes Sir!

Though I must add that many of us are just beginners who get overly curious. Can't we just at least talk about advance techniques? (please? please? please??)

------ Imagine a KW forum with everyone working on the basics ------

mingshi: "Greetings. Er, hmmm, how to do a Men cut?"
-
Neil Genzwill: "Raise your shinai on top of your head and step forward."
-
JSchmidt: "Ummm... and put it down with the top 1/3 of the shinai on top of your opponent's head..."
-
alexpollijr: "Don't forget Te-no-uchi."
-
kendokamax: "Waaaaaaaaaait. Kiai!!!!"
-
Confound: "This must be the most intelligent question ever being asked. Well done."

[Hai_hai]

This is an interesting off-shoot from the original question.
Old Warrior's statement "It's my hope that you can start seeing kumdo with a differect perspective." alone has a slightly arrogant tinge in that the kohai (in regards to kendo experience level, not physical age or experience in life) is stating the he has more wisdom than the senpai.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by Old Warrior
"If I were instructing him, I'd probably have stopped telling him anything by now. If he doesn't want to listen, why bother teaching?"

An ad hominen retort is the first place people go when they don't have a good answer.
How is that an ad hominem attack? It's just the truth. I've tried answering your questions directly before, but it appears that you don't want the answers. Several other people have given you similar advice, but still you come back with essentially the same questions.

FWIW here it is again: work on your basics. Keep your kendo as straight and clean as possible. Ignore the hits you take from the younger kids, worry about your own attacks. Don't think about tricks, feints or whatever. Try your best to put your fencing background aside.

I don't buy the age argument for a second. We have one gentleman in our dojo who started in his mid-40s, he's 3 dan now. There was another gentleman in Vancouver who started in his 40s or later, he's now 6 dan.

You are never going to be faster than the kids. Tricks don't work either. What works against kids is strong basic kendo with a lot of pressure.

[Chusan]

Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill
Don't think about tricks, feints or whatever. Try your best to put your fencing background aside.

Yes. @OW: this will even influence and improve your fencing technique. Believe me...

[Inouye02]

"You are never going to be faster than the kids. Tricks don't work either. What works against kids is strong basic kendo with a lot of pressure."

that is true , you just have to out think them , since kids get frustrated more easily, stay patient, use Jedi mind control..and you will get that ippon...

[misterkurukuru]

I am not faster then the 1kyu's and the lower dan people, but i use my smarts! maybe you should get some smarts! try slowing them down with a nice kamai...it works for all the senseis that i have seen fighting against poeple with speed. Oh mix in a kote men, its the best move against kids...unless you cant hit kote men...then...just work on that. Dont try to change peoples kendo, you are not a sensei!even senseis do not try to change peoples kendo(well there is that 8 dan...super slide). If you cant even hit them you'd best worry about yourself before worrying about the kids.

[slidercrank]

Old Warrior:

There is nothing wrong with posing an intellectual question either to yourself or to a group. As I said earlier, this is exactly why some adults progress faster than some kids, because they make up for the lack of speed, strength and stamina with intelligence.

Nevertheless, it appears to me that you are dedicating most of your thinking to the wrong path. Just saying that to you might sound supremely arrogant, and I can only assure you that it is not my intention to be so.

When I started, I too practiced 3 times a week and did everything just as told, just like you. At some point, I also had thoughts that somewhat mirror your current thinking. And it is no doubt due to your fencing experience that such thoughts of yours occur at an earlier stage of your kumdo career than mine did in my career. It was fortunate for me that I quickly saw the error of my way, mainly because my teacher took the time (and pain) to explicitly emphasize to students the non-physical aspects of kendo. And as I progress up the ranks, I have seen how right he was and how silly my notions were.

I have taken the time to write all these down, because I actually know your teacher, Master Seoung, by reputation and had once upon a time sparred with him. He was a great kumdo player and I'm certain he's a great teacher. However, I know his English (at least back then) was a little limited and this might have prevented him from verbally explaining to you some kumdo/kendo philosophy. If I am way off on this aspect, I will apologize in advance, for I am in no way trying to denigrate Master Seoung.

I'm digressing. Getting back on track here: there is a saying in kendo that describes how a student should carry himself as his study of kendo goes on. In Japanese, it's "Shu-Ha-Ri." I don't know its Korean equivalent. You might want to look into and ponder about the meaning of that saying on your own. There are plenty of resources on internet on kendo/kumdo philosophy.

You will progress faster in the long term if you dedicate your energy now to think and analyze how to do the basic techniques better and better, instead of how to one-up that 16-year-old kid. That time will come, but it's not now, and you're definitely not too old for that day to arrive.

Let me end my participation in this thread by making this final point: as a law school applicant, I definitely have respect for your professional accomplishment. Your wisdom in life and fencing, however, might not automatically or necessarily extend to kumdo/kendo. There are some here who are certifiably far more advanced in kendo than you are, and when such persons comment to you that your thinking on kumdo is mis-directed, they are doing you a great favor and you would do well to pause and think about it. Humility is important in kendo/kumdo. As someone who's junior to you both in age and in career, but just a little more advaced in kendo, I have done my best to convey to you some aspects of kendo without sounding arrogant. I hope you will take my messages well and continue to practice hard under Master Seoung.

[munenmuso]

OW: I admire your intellectual abilities to argue and expound on subjects that are either nondebatable or debatable. But from my humble understandings, kendo, unlike fencing which you've mastered for 15-20 years, is not a mere sport that you simply considered also as a learned skill. It's greater aspects revolves around its origins as a martial means or ways, whereby its spiritual aspect transcends over its technical aspect or the skills involved in it. Zen plays a major role also in kendo, thus if you want to learn it wholeheartedly you must learn first how to empty your cup in order to fully embrace the idea that is kendo, not just as a learned skill but as a philosophy. It's almost impossible to learn or master it when there are always two ideas in conflict running through your head. Remember, that pride and ego are the two mental stains of kendo. The trainee must be humble. One must exhibit "nyunanshin", or softheartedness, a certain flexibility of spirit that attest to his readiness to accept things as they are presented by the master.

[Old Warrior]

To: slidercrank/munenmuso

Thanks for your considered replies. Master Seong's English is limited and although he takes great effort to lecture, most of it is in Korean to a class of mostly first generation Korean Americans. My profession has taught me to understand and operate within my place in life. My age has taught me that I know far less than I would like about most subjects; although I am quite learned, in a few. Kumdo, is not one of those subjects.

I practice at home on non class days. I read all I can and visit this board for the constructive thoughts. I have a very flexible mind and I am a humble obedient student. Between Master Seong's language limitations and the fact that my classmates are just about all teenagers (be it with greater physical skills) there is no discussion of the subject matters you address. To the contrary, the kids just want to best the old guy and I think the Master is half worried I'll snap and do someone some real harm.

I get the point. What does escape me is why my curiosity is so offensive to some. If this BB is not the place to express it - where is the proper forum? There is a difference between taking a subject seriously and taking oneself too seriously.

[alexpollijr]

Hey,

Don't let the purist faction of the Forum put you down.

But I agree with them guys when they say that you should put your 'fencing background' aside. It's not to say that it's unuseful, but wouldn't it be easier for you to just start with a blank sheet and let the experience of learning kumdo flow naturally? Expect no results, just keep going there and taking your medicine from the teacher.


PS> the men that comes straight down the middle and hits right on is the money shot for me too.