Types of Schools

[megumisita]

For me it is not enough to simply do the kata and attend practice. I'm also interested in learning the history of my school and of others. The point of this thread is to state what school (not dojo) of kendo you practice and what that school is known for. i.e. aggressiveness, defense.
Does your dojo focus on attributes of your school or does it try to teach more on other aspects. For example, I have found some dojos whose school focuses on defense but because of that, their sensei tries to teach more offense to balance it out. Also, if your dojo has a website with its history on it you could post that as well. I find it fascinating on how the dojos began.

[AlexM]

I'm not sure what you mean.

Kendo isn't like karate, there aren't a couple of schools to choose from. There is kendo: Not Tew ryu kendo (lol), Sato ryu Kendo, Miyazaki ryu kendo, etc...
Different fighters have different styles of fighting. Different dojos can have different forms of teaching (and maybe some prefered techniques). But at the end it's all still kendo. If you go to a dojo and don't understand what they're doing it's not because they belong to a different school of kendo, it's probably because they're very bad.

In principle you can walk into any dojo in the world and practice kendo (at least that's what I'm told).

I think the school thing was abolished after Meiji (maybe a bit after... little help?). Styles were combined more or less to give kendo. I'm sure someone other than me gave give a more detailed history of it.

You might want to know who so and so studied under. But a practicing a sensei's style doesn't make it a school so to speak.

[Chusan]

There are still different ryu in Kendo, but I don`t know, whether there are any ryu-specialized dojo outside Japan.

[megumisita]

Perhaps I didn't explain it correctly. My sensei has taught me that all dojos train from one type of school or another. Examples of schools would be Ono-ha Itto Ryu, Muso Shinden Ryu, Yagyu Shinkage Ryu, Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu, Mizoguchi-ha Itto Ryu. I know some dojos have mixed schools which I find curious. My sensei always said that mixing schools is bad in kendo. I hope this better explains what I'm after.

[AlexM]

Still unclear, thought those ryu didn't mean much in modern kendo.

My dojo trains in kendo... nothing else as far as I know. I'll ask my sensei but I think he'll tell me what I wrote earlier: The school thing sort of went the way of the dodo bird.

I hope someone with actual knowledge of this responds because I always thought that kendo went beyond the "School" system to just being kendo.

I wonder what school I in practice then? Happy kendo ryu?
Maybe my kendo sucks because I practice "mixed" school kendo :D

[megumisita]

AlexM-It wasn't my intent in insulting your dojo and I apologize if I have.
This is the first time I have heard of anyone saying that the school system has dissapeared. However I think I know where you are coming from now. Sensei Kotaka is very old fashioned. He teaches Classical Kendo and there are some differences between Classical Kendo and Modern Kendo. He teaches that Iaido and Kendo are one and shouldn't be seperated. If you can AlexM, could you post a link to your dojo website. I would love to learn more about it. Here is a link of my dojo and school of Sakurai-ha Kogen Itto Ryu.....ack! my site is down for maintainence!? Since when has it needed maintainence!?! I'll post it when it comes up again.

[Chusan]

Different ryu:
yes and no. There are still several (lots of) different ryu in Japan. As to modern Kendo, we all play some kind of ´standard Kendo`, so that all ryu and all dojo can play the same game.
Nevertheless there are some differences that can be seen when training with different senseis with their special background (ryu). These differences may be variations in assuming ma-ai, kamae, the way of performing certain techniques and that kind of things.
IMHO it seems to be a good idea not to go for such details too early, you may get a general idea of that when travelling though Japan and visiting several dojos in different parts of Japan.

[megumisita]

Interesting Chusan....

As to modern Kendo, we all play some kind of ´standard Kendo`, so that all ryu and all dojo can play the same game.

I see now where AlexM and you are coming from. Like I said earlier, my dojo teaches classical kendo and our thinking seems to be opposite of yours. We are taught our ryu first and then modify that for sport kendo. We are taught to finish our opponents as efficiently and quickly as possible and not to score points which means no tapping men b/c there would not be enough strength to kill opponent. For example, all three do areas are legal, as are all four kote and the three mens. The downside is that classical kendo is slower than modern kendo. I'm not too familar with modern kendo yet so I don't know if that is the case. Also, sensei encourages us and trains us in other postitions such as jodan. That way the lessons learned there can be applied in chudan. Interesting to see your point of view. If your dojo has a website, I would love to learn more about your ways.

[Chusan]

@megumisita:
There`s a link to my dojo`s website just below here :-)
........................\/

[megumisita]

D'oh! Its in german.:p

[AlexM]

There's a link to my dojo's site in my profile. Nothing as to what "school" we belong to is on the website though.

You're free to check out the texts in the "archives" section (really must translate some more stuff...) although that won't tell you what you're looking for. You'll mostly find our schedule, pictures and tourney results.

I have no idea what style we practice, although we usually go for "sportyish" kendo in keiko. We limit big movements to beginners, kirikaeshi, suburi and sometimes kihon. It depends what you want to do with your kendo. We try different stuff out for fun and learning.

Our motto remains: Happy kendo! That sounds ridiculous but it makes sense to us.

[megumisita]

My website is still down but for some reason certain links still work.:confused: Anyway, here are two links that hopefully will help you understand my dojo's point of view of kendo as well as some of our history and to foster better understanding.

http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Garden/6305/Sakurailegend.htm

http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Garden/6305/fellman.htm

http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Garden/6305/interview.htm

I hope this helps. :) Sorry about the somewhat large texts.

[AlexM]

Now I get it.

I just realized that you practice with the USCKF (US Classical Kendo Federation) and not AUSKF.

I can't speak for everyone but I think that most of us have not delt with "schools" in kendo because we're dealing with post-war(post-Meiji?) kendo. No longer any distinction between schools of swordsmanship for most of us. Like I said, I just practice kendo. I noticed that your dojo seems to shun modern kendo. That is its choice, but in modern kendo the school thing is gone for the most part (either that or my sensei has been keeping us in the dark).

I don't know your sensei, dojo or reputations but I do know that some people truly dislike "breakaway" federations in martial arts. There is a great fear of "self-procalimed senseis" (although Kotaka sensei seems genuine). I personally don't care too much about the issue.

Maybe other people more familiar with kendo in the United States can give you advice. I think Charlie has had experience with the USCKF members before.

Here are some threads from this board that might interest you. You might want to check out e-budo too.

http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=339&highlight=classical+kendo

http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=244&highlight=USCKF

Do you guys participate in tournaments by the way?

Sorry I can't really tell you what you want to know, but I don't belong to any school of kendo (I'm pretty sure most people don't).

[Hingus]

As a member of the USCKF, I'd like to point out that we don't "snub" modern Kendo as such. Not too sure where the misconception comes from either. That's another topic entirely...

Our intent is to preserve and promote Sakurai-Ha Koghen Itto-Ryu Kendo. We do not actively compete in tournaments, nor are we recognized by AUSKF. Kotaka Sensei held/holds 8th dan in modern Kendo and was at one time president of the Midwest Kendo Federation.

While I agree that there are many "fly by night" dojo's in the world. We have a long, unique and legitimate history. I believe that megumisita's question has raised more questions about where modern kendo has come from... Ahh, that's again another thread!

[megumisita]

I couldn't have said it better myself Hingus. I was beginning to think I was the only USCKF member here. I'm curious to know which dojo you belong too.

I guess then that at least in our dojo we participate in small tournaments. Most of our members participated in the Cleveland tournament.

Sensei Kotaka may not agree with some things in modern kendo but he still respects the people who practice it. We have many modern kendoists currently in our dojo and Lee sensei is one of them and is respected by Kotaka sensei. I too don't understand where that misconception started.

Oooooo, where did you get that avatar of our symbol?

[Priam]

Here's a URL that lists some kenjyutsu ryuha and a bit of history:

http://www.koryubooks.com/guide/kenjutsu.html


I am a very proud member of the USCKF and consider myself fortunate to have a dojo that teaches Sakurai-ha Kogen Itto-Ryu nearby. The history and philosophy of our ryu is of great importance to me. Our ryu does not have a complex history, it comes directly to Kotaka sensei from Sakurai sensei.

Sakurai sensei won many duels (to the death) while he served in the Shinsen-gumi, and honed his skills with some of the finest swordsmen at the time (including Kondo Isamu). Our ryu has 100+ kata that come from practical experience and studing each one is a history lesson in itself.

Besides classical shinai kendo and kata, our ryu also studies iaido, tai-yoho (much like aikido), yari (spear), and some tamashigiri. It's a full-course meal. :)

I love kendo, it's the best. If I didn't have a USCKF dojo nearby I'd certainly study modern kendo. I just also happen to be a history hobbiest and like what the USCKF has to offer.

I have a couple of friends that study modern kendo and there is no significant difference. Here are the few things I've noticed...

I felt less trained in hikibana techniques than my modern kendo friends. I also felt less trained in techniques of attacking from tsubazeriai (although classical kendo has a 'neck slash' technique from this position).

I felt more trained in men attacks (kiriotoshi) than my friends. I also seemed to have quite a bit more training in tsuki attacks.

My modern kendo friends and I definately enjoy sharing with each other.

-Priam

Megumisita, a few of us from our dojo are coming out to visit your dojo. We'll be in town June 26-29, I look forward to meeting you.

[smith]

Nice post Priam. The differences between Kohgen Itto-Ryu's shinai kendo and ZNKR kendo are very interesting. One of the main ones that I know of is that in KIR, ai-uchi is considered a point to both opponents, is it not?

The various branches of Itto-ryu in Japan would have students that also train in modern kendo. This kendo-kenjutsu connection is unfortunately not as common in the West. You are indeed lucky to have the opportunity to experience this connection first-hand.

[Hingus]

Small correction to my previous post.

Kotaka Sensei was vice president of the Midwest Kendo Federation in the 1980's and holds 6th dan.

megumisita, Priam and I train at the same dojo in Utah. Feel free to copy and use the avatar!

[megumisita]

I too will look forward to your visit. I know that our school has other dojos and Kotaka sensei has mentioned that on occasion( he doesn't seem to speak much) I am fairly new at kendo but I will double my efforts in training so that I can present to you what my dojo and what Kotaka sensei has taught me with honor. Hmmmm....that last sentence came out kinda corny sounding but it came from the heart. Thank you so much for the link. It had alot of info that I didn't previously know.

Thank you very much Hingus.

[Priam]

Smith,

Yes, I consider myself very fortunate to have this opportunity. I know that my dojo companions feel the same way as well. And you're correct, in KIR the point goes to each for 'mutual destruction'. I was told this is because, philosophically speaking, as long as you have defeated your enemy you've won; your own death is a trivial matter.

We have a small dojo, there are currently only four regular students and about six other students that come and go (I can't speak for the size of Megumisita's dojo). So we don't have any real opportunity to have an official USCKF shiai so I've never competed with our ryu's techniques. It may also be that these types of tournaments are simply not important to our studies. For me, personally, I am not opposed to participating in modern kendo shiai.

We do, however, have some intense keiko. Because our ryu comes to us through the shinsen-gumi we train in multiple-opponent techniques (rondori). The shinsen-gumi would attack their opponents in mass and typically employ ambush techniques in the streets of Kyoto (their primary charge was to keep the streets safe)...overwhelm the enemy was the idea. My understanding is this is why they were called the 'wolves of Mibu' because they attacked in a pack. In our keiko some of our techniques are many-against-one and many-against-two (and the opposite). Quite exhausting. :)

The USCKF is open for visitors, if you ever find yourself in one of our areas you are welcome to keiko with us.

Megumisita,

I've never met Kotaka sensei before. I'm both excited an nervous to finally meet him. I hope I don't embarass our Utah dojo. :) Our sensei here in Utah is Diguangco sensei, you've probably met him, he was out there about a month ago.

-Priam

[megumisita]

At my dojo, the average attendence is about 15 though it tends to fluctuate heavily. However, most of those are come and go. Most of them are at least 1 Dan and are graduates so I guess life takes them away, others are just lazy. Its at the university so attendence also comes and goes depending on the quarter. Also, the minority are students of Sakurai-ha Kogen Itto Ryu. Most are from the japanese association or the korean association. Since I've started at the dojo, I'm the only one that has not missed a practice and I intend to keep it that way. I try to value every second of Sensei Kotaka's teachings. However, I can't speak of how things were before I got there....other than our uniform colors changed. Used to be white with blue hakama. Now its all blue uniform.

Priam,

I don't remember meeting him....its completely possible that I saw him but didn't know who he was.

[officer_fujita]

Originally posted by Priam
Smith,

My understanding is this is why they were called the 'wolves of Mibu' because they attacked in a pack

-Priam

The "ro" in miburo (the "nickname" of the shinsengumi) was actually a shortened form of "roshigumi", not for ogami-ro (for wolf), and they were once called the MIBUmara ROshigumi, or the "wandering swordsmen of Mibu village". But hey, Mibu's wolves sounds cooler, so I guess many writers stuck with it. :D

There are still many schools which teach classical Japanese swordsmanship (most of them in Japan), and some of them have greatly influenced modern kendo (like Itto-ryu and Shinto Munen). I once had a friend who's sensei was also a practitioner of Ono-ha itto ryu, and although they practice kendo, their sensei's background in a classical style also influenced their techniques (they are taught to be aggressive against their opponents and to keep attacking).

As for me, as far as I know, we only practice post-war kendo.

[hyouriittai]

I guess I'm just posting this to let the other Sakurai-ha kenkaku know that they've got a (very) new addition to their ryu over in the Pacific Northwest.

[Priam]

Thanks for the information officer_fujita, sorry I didn't see your post earlier.

hyouriittai, glad to have you with us (cool screen name too).