The Economic Truths About Kendo

[iwatekenshi]

Well here's another kendo and Olympic topic but coming from a different angle through recent info that I heard.

I was at my favorite kendo shop the other day and the topic of kendo and the Olympics came up in the middle of conversation. The owners had just received a survey for sellers of kendo goods about whether or not it would be practical to have kendo in the Olympics. I don't know who put out the survey, but I got the impression that it was in cooperation with big sports makers who want to see if there is a market out there for making gear, if kendo were to come to the olympics. The reasoning is that more exposure would allow the sport to fan out thus creating a market of buyers and sellers i.e. supply and demand.

On a more local note in regards to the owner of the bogu shop they were all for it, because simply they would make more money on the assumption that more people would do it. The owners are die-hard traditionalists but when it comes down to bucks and yen the economic aspects of kendo certainly outweigh the traditional camp's desires.

On a side note. Those in Japan who are pushing kendo in the Olympics are already designing a plan to coordinate training for today's elementary school students to be future Olympians, perhaps in the Beijing Olympics. Intresting because it's just like soccer youth programs here and abroad. Training the youth of today is the Olympic gold of tomorrow.

Like it or not this might be inevitable. However, I trust that it may not go the way Judo went because over the years there has been a lot of reflection and regret over this matter. I believe those with the power to place kendo in the Olympics might be able to find a better outcome than the way Judo did. Perhaps a better balance.

As for my personal opinion? I really don't care as long as both Olympic kendo and traditional kendo are in equal standing with mutual respect.

[Chusan]

AFAIK there are no activities known of IOC concerning any relation between Kendo and Olympics. They even have problems with western fencing because it isn`t easy enough to understand, so I don`t see any chance for Kendo.

[iwatekenshi]

Yes your right, the IOC is not involved. This is an in-country (Japan) issue. Perhaps in the future it will expand to the IOC. However this issue is seriously being debated in buyer-seller community. They will lobby to make more money.

[nollaig]

DON'T LET KENDO NEAR THE OLYMPICS!!!!


Look at judo. They recently reduced the lenght of time available to fight in nea-wasa(ground work) as its more exciting for the cameras to see a "big throw"

Judo has been ruined by big buisness
we can't let Kendo go the same route

[Confound]

Kendou in the Olympics. . . It sounds like a good idea, but I can't think of anyone I know who would watch it, except other kendouka. Getting a sport into the olympics is just as much about the sport itself as viewer ratings. A bunch of people running around in bogu, screaming really loudly (especially high-pitched kiai common among female kendouka), doesn't sound like a good recipe for high ratings, or at least it wouldn't if I were someone concerned about those things.

Maybe increased exposure would make kendou more popular, and thus, generate good viewer ratings. However, that's a bit like putting the cart before the horse, now isn't it? Perhaps as an exhibition 'sport', kendou may have a chance. It's a foot in the door, isn't it?

As someone who is apathetic toward the Olympics, if not downright negative, it doesn't matter much to me one way or the other; however, I really don't like thinking of kendou as a 'sport' in the same way that soccer, baseball, tennis, etc, are 'sports'.

c

[nollaig]

The Olympics is all about how much drugs can you take and not
get caught!

[Raígma]

I wouldn´t like it if Kendo became more popular in the "Olympic Way".
There are really enough people coming to the dojo and practicing
who don´t take it serious enough. (Most leave earlier or later)
More of them would destroy the atmosphere. It would split the kendoka even more than they are split now.
Sport, budo, warrior... and also olympic?
That´s too many for my taste. Kendo isn´t sport only.

[kendomushi]

Boo! Hiss! No to kendo in the olympics!
That being said..........
I doubt we have to worry much about kendo in the olympics. There would not be a broad enough interest outside our own ranks to make a go of it. Kendo might one day become a demonstration sport, maybe even a full sport in the olympics but I honestly doubt it would last that way beyond 3 or 4 olympiads. The only way to garner the fan base, participant base, and sponsorship base is to destroy kendo and make it over into a glitzy commericalized product that i doubt any of us would recognize or even tolerate. I am willing to bet that even those who now push for kendo to be included would see that they must either withdraw or lose kendo in its entirety within 2 olympiads.
Maybe chambara would be more exciting for the olympics than a pair of steady, patient kendoka anyway?

[alexpollijr]

Originally posted by nollaig
The Olympics is all about how much drugs can you take and not
get caught!

Hear hear.

[KhawMengLee]

The Olympics is all about how much drugs can you take and not get caught! Originally posted by nollaig

And do we have a second on that Mr Speaker?

AYE!!!

[KATSUJIN]

Hmmm.....good topic....Personally I think that being in Olympics is not bad....but like wat others have told me....it may become too sportive and commercialised......

[JSchmidt]

Katsujin, look at the two other martial arts in the Olympics..Judo and Taekwon-do...they have both become martial sports and got very little to do with their original purpose.

Jakob

[KATSUJIN]

Katsujin, look at the two other martial arts in the Olympics..Judo and Taekwon-do...they have both become martial sports and got very little to do with their original purpose.

Jakob

Not that I think if kendo goes to Olympics is good....but wat I meant was that for kendo going into Olympics is very contradictive....

[iwatekenshi]

Ok here's the bombshell...Seems like Olympic kendo will be nothing like we see today. These sport makers are pushing for complete change in order to make money. Hey isn't what the Olympics is all about? MONEY! What happened to the amateur spirit??? You will see makers like Mizuno and Addidas take it to a new dimension. Economics will override tradition. There is complete ambivalence toward it but these little budo shops need to make money. That's just the situation here.

[Neil Gendzwill]

You can all relax. Kendo will never be in the olympics unless it can be magically transformed into a winter sport. The IOC already has plenty of summer sports that are better money-makers and is in fact trying to get rid of some of the old sports that aren't much of a draw. Like fencing. The odds of a relatively obscure sport with little crowd appeal being picked up are slim and none, and slim's out of town.

[KhawMengLee]

You can all relax. Kendo will never be in the olympics unless it can be magically transformed into a winter sport. The IOC already has plenty of summer sports that are better money-makers and is in fact trying to get rid of some of the old sports that aren't much of a draw. Like fencing. The odds of a relatively obscure sport with little crowd appeal being picked up are slim and none, and slim's out of town.


AMEN! There is a god after all!:D

[Confound]

'God is money; God is dead, but my credit card still works.'

I can see how small budo shops could stand to benefit from kendou at the Olympics, but it won't fly. Kendou isn't much of a spectator sport for non-kendouka, and even on the really slim to impossible chance that the sport did get nitot he Olympics, the traditional companies would then have to compete with larger, multi-national nasty sports monstrosities (adidas, nike, etc), as was mentionned by Iwatekenshi.

There must be some other way we can help out local budo stores, some way that is more likely to suceed. For my part, I'll be buying from the same store even after I leave Japan. No uncertain internet retailers for me. (Bujin's long delays have me hot under the collar.)

c

[stevemcgee99]

...buy locally. Or at least from "mom and pop" sellers.

Here here, Confound. I think that bogu manufacturing goes hand in hand with good kendo. (I feel this way due to the influence of my work/tool use). There are a lot of things for sale in the world with a long "list" of "features", but are made poorly by uninspired and inexperienced "assemblers". I choose to support the craftworkers. I don't really value commercialism or corporations that provide cheaper, newer goods faster.

[Fraz]

I'd have to disagree. These days televised sports consist of Football, snooker, golf and Darts, at least in the UK. I welcome the olympics as a chance to see sports I normally wouldn't see....

Judo, Fencing, Archery and shooting I have tried after seeing the olympics. From fencing I found my way to Kendo. When People ask what I'm carring in the big bag on my way to practice i tell them, then have to explain what kendo is.

Anyway you look at it Raising the awareness of kendo can only be a good thing....

It would be up to the ZNKR, IKF, BKA and my fellow kendoka's to ensure popularity doesn't change kendo.

[Tato]

Yes, awarness is a good thing, and the posibility to view unusal "sports" (I'm not trying to re-start here this discussion ;) ) is interesting.

The question is if Olympic games and its business/marketing aproach is the one that will give the best results for kendo and for kendo comunity. My opinion is NO.

Can we think on other kind of event?, closer to the "art" aspect of our budo rather than the "competition" side? That may be a better way to get that awarness.

Rei

[titus]

Kendo being in the Olympics would probably not last very long, because the IOC would demand they change all of the rules to make it shorter, easier to understand, and "more exciting."

Western fencing has devolved into a real "sport" rather than something "higher" because of changes made for the Olympics. For example, there is something called "flicking" people now do to get points which is considered improper style but gets points easily. The equivalent in kendo would be ducking, headbobbing, "tricks", etc.

So, it would be likely that kendo would turn into a real "sport" where winning would be the only thing that matters and things like posture, grace, proper attitude, would go out of the window.

Remember, the only audience in the world that matters when it comes to Olympics advertising is the lowest common denominator American.

[samurai999]

There was a post way back debating the moderization of Kendo. I would like the attention, but wouldn't like using the "dou" to advertise Mizuno, Nike, etc. Instant replay for controversial calls. No way. Hantei instead of unlimited encho because people are bored watching a 30min match while both kenshi are sitting around. *shiver*

Titus.. Headbobbing and "tricks"? Headbobbing is done all the time in our taikais.. I'm guessing you're talking about moving the head from side to side to avoid a strike?

Also, tricks such as? Debana kote? Kaishi men? Men to misete kote? Those are waza/tricks/techniques.

Tim

[Hongsermeier]

Tim...headbobbing can be countered. I seem to recall a match in the mens team final at the US championship, where a certain sensei from up north lost by tsuki from C. Yang. I have it on video. I've watched it many times and its still amazing.

[Hongsermeier]

Oops, forgot to ask. Tim, hows the rehab going?

[m_french]

Originally posted by titus
the lowest common denominator American.

Ah yes titus- more anti- american sentiment from our cousins to the north. Try to be a little more neighborly. I think Canada is in america too....eh?

As for Kendo in the Olympics...not a good Idea it would definately dilute the sport; however that being said it would be nice to have the oppertunity to see more matches on video or TV.....Kendo channel anyone......KTV?....dundadundadnunnunun.:beard:

[m_french]

Echo to Brad...tim how is that injury goin'???:beard:

[Phlebas]

"I think Canada is in america too....eh?" -- m_french

Erm... last time I whipped out an atlas, I couldn't help but notice that the largest part of North "America" is actually Canada. :wink: But perhaps the American maps are not to scale... :rolleyes:

[m_french]

That's my understanding as well we have the same book...atlas i think you called it? being a native Seattlite thos maps came in handy as a youth when i couldn't find my way back across the border after a weekend of boozing in Vancouver (read drinking age 19, carded infrequently) Ah Vancouver what a beautiful City...... ah well back to reality:beard:

[Phlebas]

Ah yes... Vancouver blackouts, I called them. I quite agree; what a wonderful city to party in! Wish I lived there. Maybe someday I'll get out of the East... I'll keep dreaming. :-)

[titus]

Originally posted by samurai999
There was a post way back debating the moderization of Kendo. I would like the attention, but wouldn't like using the "dou" to advertise Mizuno, Nike, etc. Instant replay for controversial calls. No way. Hantei instead of unlimited encho because people are bored watching a 30min match while both kenshi are sitting around. *shiver*

Titus.. Headbobbing and "tricks"? Headbobbing is done all the time in our taikais.. I'm guessing you're talking about moving the head from side to side to avoid a strike?

Also, tricks such as? Debana kote? Kaishi men? Men to misete kote? Those are waza/tricks/techniques.

Tim

I basically just meant breaking "proper" form simply to try and score points. After all, kendo isn't supposed to be about winning is it? I sure hope not, because that's why I left fencing.

[samurai999]

Originally posted by titus


I basically just meant breaking "proper" form simply to try and score points. After all, kendo isn't supposed to be about winning is it? I sure hope not, because that's why I left fencing.

Of course not. Some people here take winning a little TOO seriously. But when you are in a shiai, you are there to win like if in a battle. If you go to a shiai to lose, then you will lose. But, the trick is recognizing the fine line between the drive to win and pure insanity. :D

Hey Brad and French! My rehab is doing great! I'm helping out Hashimoto sensei in Union City and in Palo Alto since I'm a gimpy shodan. I am strengthening right now and will be at it for a month or two. I'm on bike, treadmill, stairmaster, and when summer comes, I'm hoping to use the local hs pool to swim.. And doing about 300 combined suburi a day helps out my upper body and my forearm strength a lot.

Hey did you guys know that the Uenos are moving back to Japan?

Tim

[m_french]

Originally posted by samurai999


, I'm hoping to use the local hs pool to swim..


Tim if I remember correctly you had a scary adversion to public pools! Glad to here your swimming it's fantastic exersize! Great for the upper body and lung capacity.:beard:

[samurai999]

Originally posted by m_french


Tim if I remember correctly you had a scary adversion to public pools! Glad to here your swimming it's fantastic exersize! Great for the upper body and lung capacity.:beard:

Ya.. Public pools are not too sanitary, the kids sorta do their thing in there:eek:, but much cheaper than what I can find around where I live. Theres 24hr fitness places all over the place as well, and its like 127 bucks for 90days? Yo Brad, do you still work out there? Since I'm not getting another job for a while, I'm trying to save up a bit...

Tim