Rei...?

[KhawMengLee]

The Hong Kong taikai on the weekend was an interesting event...but I did notice one little sticking point, the lack of rei/manners umongst certain teams.

Not naming anyone or team but I was quite shocked at the lack of proper ettiquette or manners some of the kendoka displayed. This ranged from one guy bringing his girlfriend along and fishing for a kiss whenever he could get a chance. Not to mention the woman wearing her footwear onto the shiaijo. They didn't bow to any of the Senseis (and these guys were dressed as shinpans) they passed and just carried on waffling. No rei when leaving or entering the dojo.

Space was a bit tight so some of these guys would walk in front of the teams that were lined up in sonkyo in front of the court(getting ready to fight). Which was fine but some of them were impolite enough not to crouch a little and extend their right palm forward open. They just walked on by like they were walking in a mall or something. They would push and jostle, use other people's allocated areas to sit in.

Others had very bad rei on the shiaijo...eg. after the match is concluded they would sonkyo, sheath their blades, get up and walk back 5 paces, rei and then turn their back on the opponent. I even saw one Sensei(7dan coach of a country) competing as taisho, give an evil look to the shinpans when he was scored against. When the second point was nailed on him, after sonkyo and rei, he visibly showed his temper and stormed off to the side. One of the shinpans reprimanded him.

Overall the event was a good one but I was very surprised at the lack of rei from teams of a certain country.

Rei/Manners/Ettiquette are part of the joy/culture of kendo. What's your take on this?

[Yann]

Wow that's SAD ! I totally agree with you...
Never seen something like this. Well little mistakes always happen, and I am the first one to do some, but at this point...

It's a shame, somewhat :/

[Halcyon]

I even saw one Sensei(7dan coach of a country) competing as taisho, give an evil look to the shinpans when he was scored against. When the second point was nailed on him, after sonkyo and rei, he visibly showed his temper and stormed off to the side. One of the shinpans reprimanded him.
Reminds me of that nasty "Cobra Kai" sensei in the movie "The Karate Kid." If he doesn't want to get beat, maybe he should stop entering tournaments.:ditsy:

[KhawMengLee]

Reminds me of that nasty "Cobra Kai" sensei in the movie "The Karate Kid." If he doesn't want to get beat, maybe he should stop entering tournaments.:ditsy:

Actually, I was just kinda surprised because I have done keiko before with him and was kinda in awe. Then at the tourney it was a lot of pushing and attitude...so yeah, just a bit of a shocker.

[Halcyon]

Actually, I was just kinda surprised because I have done keiko before with him and was kinda in awe. Then at the tourney it was a lot of pushing and attitude...so yeah, just a bit of a shocker.
Some people just don't handle competition very well, especially if they feel they've lost face, so to speak. That's one reason why 7 dan sensei usually don't compete in open tournaments with lower-ranking folks. It's considered somewhat unbecoming of their station. Rather they compete amongst themselves in tournaments specifically for 7 dan sensei.

[nodachi]

I've seen people hit their shinai against the floor in frustration and angrily look at the shimpan when hit after hit of theirs weren't scoring. Perhaps they should figure out why and fix it rather than basically nonverbally complaining to the shimpan. I think they forget their manners because of the competition side of things. I also think there is a bit of ego in some of these situations. "I am so great" or "that last hit was definitely an ippon so why aren't you raising your flags"thoughts running through peoples heads.

In competition, I think convincing the judges is just as much a game as the actual fighting of your opponent. If they don't like something, you need to adjust to it. That's life, adapt and deal with it. Either that or throw a temper tantrum like a 2 year old...

[Hisham]

I guess that some people's high rank status skill-wise isn't symmetrical to there mind's progress level, competition isn't the reason, you're either respectfull or not.

[KhawMengLee]

Shiai is one thing but general rei was also absent from the group. A guy from the NSW squad was pretty annoyed when one guy stepped on his shinai and didn't even bother to look at what he did let alone apologize.

[Landorph]

man wish i was there to watch... any results on the compeition?? where can i take a look? photos? draw list?

well.. compeition brings out the good and bad side.. alot of things are at stake.. and when people are stressed... things they forget.. and ignore..

Just hope they dont do this in their own Dojo...

[KhawMengLee]

http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?goto=lastpost&t=9001

Results are two posts up.

[Stefan]

By the way. Does anyone know the reason or the purpose why one should pass behind people sitting in seiza or standing in seiretsu? And why should one extend his arm?

[Rurouni Kenshin]

By the way. Does anyone know the reason or the purpose why one should pass behind people sitting in seiza or standing in seiretsu? And why should one extend his arm?

It's etiquette, like in many daily things you do. You dont sit in a restaurant with your feet up on a table farting around, you dont slam doors into peoples faces that walk behind you, you dont cut off people when driving a car.....very common things and often related to safety issues like in kendo/Iaido etc.
When people are in sonkyo ready to fight or in seiza ready to perform a kata it means they are in their designated space about to use it. If theres no other means for you to pass around them you go in this 'crouch' and extend your right arm and show the palm. I dont know if it has anything to to with 'look I'm friendly have no weapon in my right hand so plz dont kill me' or it's just a 'pardon me, coming through'.
People familiar with this method respond to this and let you pass. If you just stand there and decide to walk in front of me when I'm busy, dont be surprised if you'll get a nice men cut or a slice to your kneecap.

[Kingofmyrrh]

...you dont slam doors into peoples faces that walk behind you...
You do if you're in Japan!

[Newbie]

I dont know if it has anything to to with 'look I'm friendly have no weapon in my right hand so plz dont kill me' or it's just a 'pardon me, coming through'.

I'm pretty sure I've been told the reason for this is that you show that you mean the person gearing up no harm, that you pose no threat to him/her.

[Andoru]

Etiquette is everything in kendo without which it's just two person whacking each other with sticks.

I'm happy with the results - the NSW teams have done us proud! Wished I was there.

[KhawMengLee]

By the way. Does anyone know the reason or the purpose why one should pass behind people sitting in seiza or standing in seiretsu? And why should one extend his arm?

You pass behind them to be polite. If he is getting ready to fight or is watching his teamate it would be rude to block him right. If space does not allow it then go ahead. But we crouch as a semi-bow of respect and you extend your right hand to show that you have no blade or have no intention of drawing your blade.

Andoru...you had a giant on your nidan below squad. I wanted to fight him!!!

[Stefan]

You pass behind them to be polite. If he is getting ready to fight or is watching his teamate it would be rude to block him right. If space does not allow it then go ahead. But we crouch as a semi-bow of respect and you extend your right hand to show that you have no blade or have no intention of drawing your blade.


I think I didn't use the right words for my question. I was interested from what this etiquette was developed.

For example, if someone passes behind me, it might not block my vision, but it is a more dangerous situation for me, because for a certain amount of time I cannot see what the person is doing. But maybe we shouldn't be so psychotic anymore.

[Morvran]

I didn't read all the posts, but I think that different people join and learn Kendo (and other arts) for many different reasons...not all of them caring about tradition and custom. But of course if there are gaffs as big as the ones described here, then the students aren't being taught well. Tradition and custom must go hand-in-hand with Kendo (imo) or it's just about attacking people with sticks (or pretend swords).

All it takes is one bad teacher/sensei to produce a whole wave of ignorant students.