who uses a 38 shinai?

[Alison2805]

Ive been advised by several people to change from using a 39 (regulation size) shinai to a 38 girls one. I find with the 39 that when I extend my arms for a men cut, my left elbow is still bent - my palms are too far apart. I was wondering if anyone else has had this problem and if using a smaller shinai helped, or did it cause you to be disadvantaged because it shortened your reach?

[tantadi]

The 38 has a shorther tsukagawa (handle leather) so that you can not grip that wide. But what is right for you, depends on your size and strength. Ask your sensei. (And get a ladies 38, much better than standard 38)

For women the male 39 usually is too heavy. If you want a 39 to keep the reach, get a ladies 39.

The bendy left elbow: Let the power come from the left arm. If it comes from the right, the left elbow is more inclined to bend.

[andrew_kumdo]

Ive been advised by several people to change from using a 39 (regulation size) shinai to a 38 girls one. I find with the 39 that when I extend my arms for a men cut, my left elbow is still bent - my palms are too far apart. I was wondering if anyone else has had this problem and if using a smaller shinai helped, or did it cause you to be disadvantaged because it shortened your reach?hmm now that i think about it i believe when i make a strike my left elbow is still bent..(i use 38 btw) maybe its cause im short? 5'5 anyways tell a sensie or something i really cant give u any advice

[tantadi]

Your elbow doesn't bend because you are short!..it bends (too much) because your grip is too wide (or just plain incorrect like holding a club) and/or you are using too much right hand.

[fighting mochi]

one of our kendoist is about 5' 1" and he uses a 39 shinai. he also had a problem with holding the shinai properly until we had him change his tsukagawa to 38.

[fighting mochi]

he still uses a 39 shinai, the weight distribution is slightly changed because of the shorter tsukagawa.

[tantadi]

Sure she can buy a shorther tsukgawa or shorten it, but if she is using a 39 for men it still will be too much for most women..in fact it will feel even more difficult since she will move her right hand back and change the balance point of the shinai more forward.

[h2o]

my left elbow is still bent
Depending on the grade of "bentiness" (yay, english is not my first language :D) that wouldn't be an error. My left elbow is also bent during a men cut, and I believe it should be so. The important thing is that the right arm is extended (without being overextended==locking elbows, ofcourse, since that would damage your elbowjoint).

[Newbie]

I didn't know there were "men's" and "women's" shinai! I feel so ignorant. I just use a standard 39. Not that I'm gonna change but what's the difference between mens and womens shinai?

[mingshi]

I didn't know there were "men's" and "women's" shinai! I feel so ignorant. I just use a standard 39. Not that I'm gonna change but what's the difference between mens and womens shinai?
It's not reaaaally about "men's" and "women's"... But more about the IKF standard... You'll see guys using 38, mainly because they are high school students, etc.

I've a female kohai holding a heavy 38 (480 grams) - okay for a high school boy, but 40gram overweight for a grown-up female.

... And then I have one of my 38 shinai on a 37 tsukagawa... It was 437grams - going 3 grams underweight...

I might need to invest on a eletronic balance later on...

[Ignatz]

For elbow, when you practice imagine that the tsukagawa is a wet washrag and at the moment of contact you re trying to wring the water out of it (right hat turns left and left hand turns right) Once it is ingrained into muscle memory you will do it all of the time and your left elbow will be straight.

For mens/womens shinai, I don't think there is any "overweight. The weights given are minimum. You won't be in trouble with shinai being overweight, except for maybe being slow, but if it is underweight you will not be allowed to use it in competition.

[Lloromannic]

I'd also like to point ot that many people (in my experience) forget that they don't need to put the right hand right next to the tsuba but they can move it up and down.
I have both 38 and 39 tsukagawa on different 39 shinai, generally, even with the 39 I grip it the same way as with the 38.

[h2o]

I'd also like to point ot that many people (in my experience) forget that they don't need to put the right hand right next to the tsuba but they can move it up and down.
Hmm, is that really ok? I've had the impression that if you need to do that, your shinai is the wrong size. But I can't remember actually having gotten specific instructions about it.

[tantadi]

I've gotten specific instructions to keep the right hand pretty close to the tsuba at all time, or shorten the tsukagawa. Sometimes you can cheat to get greater reach, but it is not quite "right".

[Neil Gendzwill]

Depending on the grade of "bentiness" (yay, english is not my first language :D) that wouldn't be an error. My left elbow is also bent during a men cut, and I believe it should be so. The important thing is that the right arm is extended (without being overextended==locking elbows, ofcourse, since that would damage your elbowjoint).
The important thing is that both arms are straight. A bent left arm is a sign of a right-handed cut. You're going to have some problems with slipping off the target, making the cut sharp and also not making the most of your distance, among other things, if you continue with this bad habit.

If you make sure the left is straight, the right will follow. One good check is to make sure that at extension, there is a gap between your left fist and your right forearm. If they are touching or if there is only a little gap, your left arm is probably bent. If this is a consistent problem for someone, it is a showstopper for even being allowed in bogu in our dojo.

Allison, I suggest you listen to your sensei and use a 38. But don't let the tsuka length dictate your grip width - you need to use the width that is correct for you. If that's a little tighter than with your right hand up against the tsuba, that's just fine.

[Lloromannic]

Hmm, is that really ok? I've had the impression that if you need to do that, your shinai is the wrong size. But I can't remember actually having gotten specific instructions about it.


Maybe, I'd be more comfortable with a 40 or 40 shinai with a 38 tsuka.

At a recent seminar, one sensei explained to me that he shifts his hands depending on the condition, he said that for quick kote strikes his hand is at the tsuba to get maximum leverage but for men ithey are closer together.

[andrew_kumdo]

For elbow, when you practice imagine that the tsukagawa is a wet washrag and at the moment of contact you re trying to wring the water out of it (right hat turns left and left hand turns right) Once it is ingrained into muscle memory you will do it all of the time and your left elbow will be straight.

yeah our sensie tells use to imagine the shinias like a wet towel and u want to squeeze it in

[stuartwilson]

My first shinai was a 38, and I still like it, although all my others have been 39. It's a heavy 38, but has nice balance.
From what you describe, I would recommend that you try a 39 shinai and put 38 leather on it. A visiting sensei from Japan brought me such a shinai, which he described as a "competition shinai" (or so it was translated). Anyway, it has the shorter grip length AND the advantatage of not only 39 length, but just a bit more, because the tsuba is slightly closer.

[Kenshi]

The weight and length definitions are for shiai only. What you prefer and feel comfy with in your normal keiko (and shinsa) is another point. If you intend to take part in shiai, then it makes sense to at least be familiar with a shinai that follows the defined standard.

In all the shiai ive been in (America, Britain, mainland Europe, Japan) the only time my shinai were properly weight/size checked where for the 2 Europeans and 1 World Championships I took part in. In some UK shiai they were kind-of checked (not weighed), but nothing much at all really. In Japan I have never seen any shinai check at any competition ive been at.

I can also safely say that a lot of Japanese adult men do not use shinai that would pass a WKC shinai-check, for weight and maybe length as well.

When I was a competitive kendoka, shiai compliant shinai always felt ackward to me. I guess i'm just weak!! But seriously, the tsuka were always too fat. Part of that was I was living in the U.K., so couldnt pop down to my local bogu shop, which I can do now.

[Alison2805]

Alrighty!! Just to clear up a couple of things:

I KNOW that the grip has nothing to do with how tall I am!! But being short, I naturally have short arms, Im no gorilla.

The weight of a 39 doesnt bother me at all. Grrrr, arrrgg!!

Im not bending my left arm out of habit. With one hand behind the tsuba and the other at the end of the handle, I cant hold the shinai in front of me without my left arm bending - it is physically impossible for me to have both straight unless I move my right hand halfway down the handle (which is really hard to do when Im in the habit of having it at the top!). You can see what I mean if you try holding your shinai with the right hand above the tsuba. It took me ages to try to explain this to the sensei who picked my up on it - he too thought it was a habit. Im left handed so Im not dependant on the right too much (I think!!)


Ive heard of the towel squeezing thing before, I try to conciously do it as much as possible, it will definitely be easier with both arms straight.

Belive it or not, nowhere in Perth sells 38s!!! Ill have to order a couple over the net. I will try the 38, and also try a 39 with the 38 grip on it and see which feels better. I think it will take me awhile to get used to either.

Can you really get "ladies" and "mens" 39s?? I havent heard of that before!

[tantadi]

You can cut down your tsukagawa on your 39 if you feel that that is the shinai for you. It is not very difficult. You will see how the knot is done when you turn the inside of the tsukagawa inside out. You can also chop a 39" down to a 38", with an electrical saw..but the slats might splinter in the process.

Tozando.com have ladies 38. budo-aoi.com and e-mudo.com have ladies 39". Their definitivly feel faster.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Im not bending my left arm out of habit. With one hand behind the tsuba and the other at the end of the handle, I cant hold the shinai in front of me without my left arm bending - it is physically impossible for me to have both straight unless I move my right hand halfway down the handleYou definitely have to find your correct grip distance, and for a shorter woman with a 39, right hand against the tsuba is definitely too wide. However, every beginner on the planet says "that's impossible" when asked to get both arms straight while the hands are in a proper grip. You'll get it eventually.

Can you really get "ladies" and "mens" 39s?? I havent heard of that before!Yes. The regulations dictate minimum weight and maximum length. The maximum length for both men and women is the same, 120 cm (the length of a 39) but the weight is different. If a man chooses to use a 38 in competition, it must be at least 510 g but a woman's shinai can be as light as 440 g if memory serves. Also, a men's 38 will typically have a bit thicker tsuka. BTW the men's 38 is the unusual one - most stock 38 you buy are intended for women. You can also find ladies 39 shinai, which are lighter weight and slimmer in overall construction than a mens 39.

[Kent Enfield]

BTW the men's 38 is the unusual one - most stock 38 you buy are intended for women. You can also find ladies 39 shinai, which are lighter weight and slimmer in overall construction than a mens 39.I think that actually most stock 38s are for high school boys, with a minimum weight of 480 g, rather than the minimum weight of 440 g that adult women have. Though not so common, at least around here, adult women can use a "standard" junior high boy's 37 and still make minimum weight. I'd guess that they tend to be too skinny in the tsuka to be held comfortably, though.

[tantadi]

Yep, the standard 38" do feel heavier than the ladies versions. And a big vendor like tozando sells both. The tsuka of the 37" looks pretty similar to the ladies 38, interesting to know that they can make the minimum weight.

[Alison2805]

At our state championship over the weekend one of the girls had 2 new 38s - unfortunately when they were wieghed, both were underweight!! Im not sure if they were "mens" or "womens" 38s. Hopefully when the ones Ive ordered arrive they will be fine.

[Takuan]

I tried a lot of different Shinais, for I am not the strongest person and tend to get tired when doing lots of suburi and I'm quite slow when hitting with a heavy Shinai. In the last year I tried out the different "element shinais" available in Germany, first a 39 "Do" shinai, an Earth-shinai which had an oval grip. It was quite heavy, but I had a good feeling of control with this oval grip.

Now I use a "Ka" shinai, a fire-shinai, which has the weight of a 38 shinai, but the length of a 39 shinai, but it's balance point is very close to the tsuba, so it appears to be quite lightweighted - in fact it feels as if it were the lightest shinai I ever had, even lighter than a regular 38 shinai and opponents are quite surprised when they recognize that the shinai is longer than they suspect ;-)

[Alison2805]

Well, as a happy ending to all this stuff, I had a training on the weekend when I finally got to use my new 38 shinai. It was great!!! Even though when compared to everyone elses it doesnt seem much shorter, it was easier to swing and I could reach easier because I could straighten my arms. I didnt find any problems with it being shorter either.

[Commander]

I've been using my tozando oval 38 shinai, very good compared to the usual round shaped.

No complaints yet. :)

[yohed55]

In the last year I tried out the different "element shinais" available in Germany.

Do you know of any online dealers that sell these?

[Takuan]

Yes, go to:
http://www.kendo24.com/index.php?id=390&L=2

Element shinais can be found unter "swords".

I bought a lot of stuff there over the past few years, including different shinais and my bogu - it's a good shop. Their website is in german and english, so there should be no problem with shipping to the US.

[yohed55]

Thanks a lot, I will look into buying one of them.

[Kitsune]

I use a 38 shinai but it's because my height is 1,67 mts. no because I'm a girl. If you ask me, several of my male kenshis use a 38 shinai just because they're not so tall and they're thin.

[runsyi]

Ive been advised by several people to change from using a 39 (regulation size) shinai to a 38 girls one. I find with the 39 that when I extend my arms for a men cut, my left elbow is still bent - my palms are too far apart. I was wondering if anyone else has had this problem and if using a smaller shinai helped, or did it cause you to be disadvantaged because it shortened your reach?

I just went the other way (38 --> 39). It's taking some getting used to the increased reach. Just a note though, I have 37 tsukagashira on my 39s.

[LarsCW]

After reading the advise on this tread well and checking the way I used to hold my shinai I found out that when I keep my right hand about an inch away from the tsuba I'll stretch my arms more, I'll use my right arm less and my shoulders seem to stay more relaxed.

So thanks for the usefull advise

[Alan Molstad]

For health rasons my wife has to use a 36.

it has helped her a lot.

I believe a 36 is for kids, they are well made and very fast .

[Alison2805]

Ive bee using the 38 for a few weeks now and my left wrist certainly feels happier!! It used to get quite sore before.

[rottunpunk]

36. i found 38 very big and heavy.
:p

[Alan Molstad]

If I ever want to have some fun, I just pick up my wife's 36 Shinai....
It's fast.
Thats the one thing you notice, very fast.
It is shorter, but to tell the truth you dont really notice the length,
But the weight is so different that it does bring a smile to you when you first hold it....

[butcherbird]

Just a point!!!
a 38 has a longer tsuka [and a longer sakigawa] than a 39. Remember the shinai is a training instrument, so that one day you may use a sword properly.
One dog barks wrongly and 10,000 bark correctly
The length is so that you may learn tenno uchi, without locking the elbows. the 39, a more mature instrument, has a shorter tsuka that brings the hands slightly closer together and is therefore allowing tenno uchi to occur later, when the arms are more fully extended. This requires much more ki and a mature waza. Most people can't handle a 39 properly as they haven't mastered a 38. Small differences have enormous effects
When Iwas a kid 38 was standard for kyu grades.
remember too that a completely straight arm is bent. there's far too much hyper-extension of the arms in dojos. I will add that since shinai's are now made all over the place, I do see 39 shinai with 38 tsukagawa. Is this another sign that kendo's goin to hell in a handbasket? I think so

[butcherbird]

Just a point!!!
a 38 has a longer tsuka [and a longer sakigawa] than a 39. Remember the shinai is a training instrument, so that one day you may use a sword properly.
One dog barks wrongly and 10,000 bark correctly
The length is so that you may learn tenno uchi, without locking the elbows. the 39, a more mature instrument, has a shorter tsuka that brings the hands slightly closer together and is therefore allowing tenno uchi to occur later, when the arms are more fully extended. This requires much more ki and a mature waza. Most people can't handle a 39 properly as they haven't mastered a 38. Small differences have enormous effects
When Iwas a kid 38 was standard for kyu grades.
remember too that a completely straight arm is bent. there's far too much hyper-extension of the arms in dojos. I will add that since shinai's are now made all over the place, I do see 39 shinai with 38 tsukagawa. Is this another sign that kendo's goin to hell in a handbasket? I think so

[Neil Gendzwill]

Just a point!!!
a 38 has a longer tsuka [and a longer sakigawa] than a 39. A 38 is typically smaller in every dimension than a 39 and the tsuka is shorter. I'm not sure where you are getting your information.
I do see 39 shinai with 38 tsukagawa.People who prefer a closer grip will often put a 38 tsukagawa on a 39 shinai just because it is shorter.

[Alan Molstad]

Tha handle of a 38 might be longer if, the guard has slid a bit farther up the shinai due to the thinner bamboo?

[Saaga]

I agree: A 38 stuka is usually shorter than a 39 tsuka. However, in the moment I have one 38 shinai and one 39 with tsukas of exactly same lenght - both are new ones and from Tozando. Some 38 shinais have longer and some have shorter tsuka - so it does not always depend on if the shinai is 38 or 39 but on the model of shinai too.

[thirdegreesidek]

Gendzwill Sensei, I am about 5' 11" and have a 39? Which is best, considering. What do you use and how does it reflect on your speed? 38 or 39"

[thirdegreesidek]

Gendzwill Sensei, I am about 5' 11" and have a 39? Which is best, considering. What do you use and how does it reflect on your speed? 38 or 39"
"Keep your body triangular, your mind circular." -O'Sensei

[manjisan]

I mainly use the 39 out of reach reasons but my sensei had be use a shorter on, 37, to help improve my knowlege of distance and speed on the first hit. I'd recommed that type of training to anyone. But I do like to use the 37 normally because closer in you are able to control your shinai a little bit better than your oppenent will, for instance, hikiwaza.

[Lone Kitten]

i definitely use a girls 38... try tozando.com. They do a lovely women's weight 38 dobari. they're really good. i think they do a couple of other women's shinai. Theyre also lighter, so if you've been using a men's 39 you'll be much quicker.

[tantadi]

I like the ladies versions from Tozando as well, but they seem to bend on me, take the banana shape.

[Lone Kitten]

i've never had that problem.they've always sprung back into shape for me. i like the tozando ladies dobari because i prefer the weight as far back towards me as possible.

i've never come across anywhere else (other than in japan - i still get my kendo teacher to make em up for me and send em out by mail!) that does proper ladies shinai. If u know anywhere else hat does them let me know.the only argument i have with tozando is the price for shipping etc

[tantadi]

Aoi budogu have them. So does boguzen.com, kendo24.com, e-bogu, and e-mudo. I've tried the one from Aoi, I really liked it, but it splintered and broke fairly fast. I think I might try boguzen next.

[GreenArrow]

i've never had that problem.they've always sprung back into shape for me. i like the tozando ladies dobari because i prefer the weight as far back towards me as possible.

i've never come across anywhere else (other than in japan - i still get my kendo teacher to make em up for me and send em out by mail!) that does proper ladies shinai. If u know anywhere else hat does them let me know.the only argument i have with tozando is the price for shipping etc

I use a 38 shinai, got mine from e-bogu. It's the "Tenchi" I got that as it also has the oval tsuka, which was what I wanted.

I noticed the other day that emaishop also seem to be doing a decent 38, I got mine from e-bogu before they came on the site.

The e-bogu shipping price wasn't too bad, and they labelled the package "sports sticks" with a value of less than $12 so it didn't get stopped for duty.:happy:

[Lone Kitten]

ooo! I'll have to have a look there, it has to be cheaper than getting my sensei to send them over! I might have to try one of the ones with an oval tsuka

i'm very funny about my shinai, suppose all kendoka are. i have tiny hands so i have to have very small grips and just generally small things.

[Alan Molstad]

Due to some health reasons, My friends in Kendo got a kid's 36 shinai for my wife to use.....

It's so easy for her now to do Kendo with,,,,and she is a lot faster now,,,her hits have snap to them,,,

also, just for fun I use her 36 for a second,,,Man,,,it's a gas,,,,,,a 36 is like nothing,,,,it's so light, so fast,,,,

[GreenArrow]

Due to some health reasons, My friends in Kendo got a kid's 36 shinai for my wife to use.....

It's so easy for her now to do Kendo with,,,,and she is a lot faster now,,,her hits have snap to them,,,

also, just for fun I use her 36 for a second,,,Man,,,it's a gas,,,,,,a 36 is like nothing,,,,it's so light, so fast,,,,

Yeah, when I got the 38 I was surprised at how much lighter it is- as it is a LADIES 38 not the gents... It weighs in at just over minimum weight (from memory about 450g), it's about 60g lighter than the gents 39 I had and better balanced...

It's amazing how much difference that few grams makes actually, as well as it being easier/more comfortable able to hold it properly with my little shortcake arms. :happy:

Oh, and before I get the usual "you're not holding it right 'cos you're a rubbish newbie, it's not your arms they are standard length" note that as an exerienced archer I know EXACTLY how the length of my arms compares to "standard" for my height/gender... :wink:

Seriously though, I found that getting a shinai to fit my arm length wasn't exactly considered when I started, it was only after reading the forums here and a book or two I realised that shinais do come in different sizes and weights for ladies. Is this a common experience for us girlies? Are male instructors just lacking experience/awareness in this aspect? What's other people's experience?

[Lone Kitten]

to be honest i thinkmale instructors aren't lacking, it's just that outside japan they don't have the experience. No one told me the importance of a sports bra etc.

I sometimes use my japanese high school 38's and theyre 420g, or just under. they are a lot better than men's 38's. Women's 38's tend to be slimmer and easier to hold in my experience.

It's a well known fact that men are proportionally stronger in the upper body than women. I think that it's much better to use a shinai that's made for you gender, rather than to hurt yourself using a men's. getting the correct shinai is never what you think about when you start. i was just given one and did what i was told!

[tantadi]

I don't know what it is, women practice kendo outside Japan also and why do the instructors give them male shinai when they start. Maybe they don't really understand the difference, they go all wide eyed when they try my ladies 38" and 39".

[Lone Kitten]

I suppose newbie girls are given men's shinai because there are more of them around and they're cheaper. Still, they wouldn't give a 39 to a kid would they. My sensei in Japan used to get me to practice with a men's 39 for a few weeks before taikai but that was a speed thing and it wasn't as if i was a newbie then.

I know in the UK there's a severe lack of women outside london doing kendo. There's 3 in the dojo i practice at, but i've been to other dojos where there aren't any. It might just be that us girlies are an unknown quantity

[Baritonekidd]

Im a man and ive always used a 38, it has th spead and if have the skill you dont need the length, ive been doing kendo for four years and i can use a 39 just fine but i like the 38, then agin im only 5'4"

[Lone Kitten]

i think size and height has a lot to do with it. If you're short then a 38 is best for you. As far as i remember i haven't seen any guidelines on size , just weight guidelines

[Baritonekidd]

Yeah that it does but it also has to do with cmfort, there is no girly or manly shinai. alot of my companions use 37, and two use 36 and only 3 out of my 9 friends are female. they men that use the 36 lok the speed and the control.

[GreenArrow]

I suppose newbie girls are given men's shinai because there are more of them around and they're cheaper. Still, they wouldn't give a 39 to a kid would they. My sensei in Japan used to get me to practice with a men's 39 for a few weeks before taikai but that was a speed thing and it wasn't as if i was a newbie then.

I know in the UK there's a severe lack of women outside london doing kendo. There's 3 in the dojo i practice at, but i've been to other dojos where there aren't any. It might just be that us girlies are an unknown quantity

Agreed.

I the dojo I attend, there is one other lady- she's been going only about 4 months more than me, and is somewhat younger than I am... so I didn't really get the "female" slant.

I also tend to somewhat more demanding/adventurous than she is... I've been working in a male-dominated technical sphere for all of my career, so kind-of learnt how to look after myself in terms of getting kit to fit... (ever tried to get a boiler-suit or fall-arrest harness or decent rigger boots to fit when you've got hips and feet that are not man-sized?)

The only way it'll change is if coaches/instructors are actually educated to be aware that, yes, in some ways, women are different to men and equality is no about being gender-blind but gender aware...

Actually, Kendo is not unique to this... although I was fortunate when I started archery that I fell in with a very experienced coach who had worked a lot with women before... and understood both the physical and mental differences (and who feeds me chocolate during that one week in four when I really NEED it!). But many more coaches do not have such awareness...

Just a thought: the ArcheryTalk forums have a forum for ladies... would there be interest in such a Kendo forum I wonder?

[Mugu]

Just a thought: the ArcheryTalk forums have a forum for ladies... would there be interest in such a Kendo forum I wonder?

Nice idea, but all the kendo guys will end up in the women's forum to look for hot kendo chicks...

[tantadi]

Regarding a female forum, I don't know, are there really kendo related issues that needs to be kept away from the guys? If it is of no interest to them, they don't have to engage in it.

Besides that, I think that any male instructor is able to create a good training environment for both genders. If they want to. Women might be an unknown quantity in the dojo, but not many other places.

[Mugu]

Regarding a female forum, I don't know, are there really kendo related issues that needs to be kept away from the guys? If it is of no interest to them, they don't have to engage in it.
I don't think it'll be a problem. I think the guys will like it now that they even know a central location to look for kendo chicks... I can even see the first thread in the forum by a guy something like "Single male Kendoka's looking for hot single female kendoka"... j/k

Back on topic about shinai length. I've been using women's 38 from Tozando for quite a while now that I really like the balance and weight. One problem I noticed lately. Whenver I strike Men (suburi, kirikaeshi and so forth), I kept extended my left arm to far out that my wrist is bending outward. But if I don't bend it outward, I feel like my left arm is bent, not straight. So I kept getting corrected by bending my left arm slightly. I've been wondering, should I switch to a different shinai? Like a 39 women instead maybe because my left arm is longer than I thought? Any advice will be appreciated.

[Lone Kitten]

Just a thought: the ArcheryTalk forums have a forum for ladies... would there be interest in such a Kendo forum I wonder?

DEFINITELY - have to think of a way of keeping the men out tho!!:dog:

[Lone Kitten]

Regarding a female forum, I don't know, are there really kendo related issues that needs to be kept away from the guys? If it is of no interest to them, they don't have to engage in it.



I think this thread proves that there are things for woman to talk about -another one that was on KWF - dou to fit women. I have to say that kendo is a rather male dominated martial art - i've always said that there definietly needs to be a little something to persuade women to start who would like to but who are put off by the lack of women! There's a lady at our dojo, who's had her kids and they've grown up, has always wanted to do kendo but was too afraid. her son started and she joined in. then son quit but she carried on, however she said that she'd never have joined in if there hadn't been other women there. It's like being put off joining a gym when you're a bit podgy round the middle (like me!) because the gym's full of slender, toned, fitness freaks who can actually wear lycra without looking like a strangely shaped sausage!

[tantadi]

Back on topic about shinai length. I've been using women's 38 from Tozando for quite a while now that I really like the balance and weight. One problem I noticed lately. Whenver I strike Men (suburi, kirikaeshi and so forth), I kept extended my left arm to far out that my wrist is bending outward. But if I don't bend it outward, I feel like my left arm is bent, not straight. So I kept getting corrected by bending my left arm slightly. I've been wondering, should I switch to a different shinai? Like a 39 women instead maybe because my left arm is longer than I thought? Any advice will be appreciated.

That sounds like an "ask your sensei" - question. In general think it is good to try out different shinai, not only because the "try out", but because your preferences might change with experience. For me your question sounds to have something to do with the with between your hands and how you cut (obviously), and I's sure that your sensei will see exactly what it is.

[Lone Kitten]

hmmm, to be honest i think you'll know if you're using the right size shinai. Using the right sized shinai for me tends to make me feel like my kendo is more comfortable, even if i've not done kendo for a while.

[GreenArrow]

I think this thread proves that there are things for woman to talk about -another one that was on KWF - dou to fit women. I have to say that kendo is a rather male dominated martial art - i've always said that there definietly needs to be a little something to persuade women to start who would like to but who are put off by the lack of women! There's a lady at our dojo, who's had her kids and they've grown up, has always wanted to do kendo but was too afraid. her son started and she joined in. then son quit but she carried on, however she said that she'd never have joined in if there hadn't been other women there. It's like being put off joining a gym when you're a bit podgy round the middle (like me!) because the gym's full of slender, toned, fitness freaks who can actually wear lycra without looking like a strangely shaped sausage!

That was my feeling. There's a lot of thins that are specific to women that I don't think men really consider, never mind understand. It's not aboutkeeping men out- but about sharing experience if there's not another woman in your dojo to ask.

I gather that the other woman at our dojo was really glad when I joined- now she's not the only one. Particularly as I tend towards the "gobby" category- like I've worked in the male world as (often) the only female, often the boss and with the professional expertise, so have no problem with being acceptably assertive- and being confident of knowing when to question and research and adapt. I also participate in another discipline (archery) where I have learnt that in any physical activity there ARE small differences in the experience for MOST women.

Also the little things like getting a hakama to fit over hips when you're over 25 and not so thin as you used to be... it's difficult to feel any dignity and self-respect when you feel like a blue ball (and lets face it, we keep being told of the importance of a dignified appearance in Kendo). Sizing on your first gi/hakama when you are encouraged to order through the club to get discount offered by a supplier- hey, maybe I don't want the guys to know my bust measurements?! As for hakama... well, if you've got a sewing machine, they CAN be made to fit... and look dignified. But the info does take some digging out of US (aikido) websites.

I'm not yet looking for my first set of bogu, but the discussion on the Chibabogu website abotu sizing and construction for ladies is very interesting. Particularly for thise of us with short bodies and wider hips... and a generous bust. Working what size do to get to cover the tender parts yet not be too long in the torso... where does one start...?

Let's face it, there's a lot of women, particularly older ladies whose kids have now left home, who can find the usual Kendo situation quite daunting. Actually, we have a similar issue in archery (though lesser in degree)- so some of us more experienced ladies do mentor other ladies (how to not look like a big snowman in green/white regulation dress for example).

Maybe a ladies' forum would both give us an area to discuss such issues and have a chance of getting a response from women with relevant experience, and to know that you are not the only one facing these things, but also could be a place where men, particularly those who are responsible for training others in their dojos, could learn what specific issues are of relevance to women..? It would also give a file of reference articles that women coming into Kendo can easily reference and find.

What you you think?

TGD
(The Good Doctor- reflecting that point where one of my clients finally admitted that female professionals DO know what they are talking about, and accepted that not all who have earned the title "Dr." are male...)

[Lone Kitten]

hey, i'm under 25 and not as slim as you used to be...

I agree about the ladies kendo forum. Greenarrow, PM me if you're interested in trying to sort one out, it would bring female kendoka together.I think it's a GREAT idea!

[GreenArrow]

hey, i'm under 25 and not as slim as you used to be...

I agree about the ladies kendo forum. Greenarrow, PM me if you're interested in trying to sort one out, it would bring female kendoka together.I think it's a GREAT idea!

Kitten, I've pm'd you with my thoughts.

Ladies, you might want to go take a look at the ArcheryTalk Women on http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/index.php to see how the archery folks use the idea- inappropriate stuff is moderated out, but it is useful for women to air specific issues- and also for men to ask ladies for advice on occasion.

Any thoughts people?

TGD.

[Lone Kitten]

PM'd you back. had a look at the archery one and it looks good.

just got a new 38 from tozando. can't wait to try it out! It seems a bit thinner in the tsuka than my others, but that's probably because i've fixed them with 39 taki cut down... that's the thing about using 38's, there are very few spare taki about!!

[Commander]

Nice, i used to be the only girl in the dojo for the past year, but now there's 2 of us.

It would be nice to have more women participate though.


As for the bogu problem, i had to replace my men because it was too big, i am replacing it with the mine men from chibabogu. Standard bogu is just not women friendly if you ask me.

P.S i use an oval 38 from tozando, great wee shinai

[GreenArrow]

Nice, i used to be the only girl in the dojo for the past year, but now there's 2 of us.

It would be nice to have more women participate though.


As for the bogu problem, i had to replace my men because it was too big, i am replacing it with the mine men from chibabogu. Standard bogu is just not women friendly if you ask me.

P.S i use an oval 38 from tozando, great wee shinai

Women's participation: will take time I think. Like all male-dominated activities, Kendo does seem to have that casual sexism that some ladies can find rather daunting- confidence more often being lacking in women (please forgive the generalisation). I'm one of the gobby minority- but of course, that makes me "awkward..." :wink: Well, someone has to be.

Bogu: I'm not in bogu yet, but I was looking at the ChibaBogu site recently... not that I could afford it for ages even then!

But there was much food for thought. I'd be interested to know how you get on with the men, and also what it is like dealing with ChibaBogu from UK, that way I'll have some idea of how much I need to save (ouch)

Maybe some UK suppliers will take note?

I'll make it simple: most women are a different shape to men. Women do Kendo too, even if not so many of us. Women like bogu to fit properly too.

Why do I have to pay so much more than a bloke to get a do that fits me as well as the low-cost stuff does for them...?

(Sits back to await the flames...!:rolleyes: )

[GreenArrow]

PM'd you back. had a look at the archery one and it looks good.

just got a new 38 from tozando. can't wait to try it out! It seems a bit thinner in the tsuka than my others, but that's probably because i've fixed them with 39 taki cut down... that's the thing about using 38's, there are very few spare taki about!!

Cutting down a 39 doesn't feel quite the same- I did that after week one (read about the idea in a book) just so I could hold it OK! When I finally got a 38 the diffrence was unreal, I bet you'll enjoy the new one.

Is it round or oval handle?

[Commander]

Women's participation: will take time I think. Like all male-dominated activities, Kendo does seem to have that casual sexism that some ladies can find rather daunting- confidence more often being lacking in women (please forgive the generalisation). I'm one of the gobby minority- but of course, that makes me "awkward..." :wink: Well, someone has to be.

Bogu: I'm not in bogu yet, but I was looking at the ChibaBogu site recently... not that I could afford it for ages even then!

But there was much food for thought. I'd be interested to know how you get on with the men, and also what it is like dealing with ChibaBogu from UK, that way I'll have some idea of how much I need to save (ouch)

Maybe some UK suppliers will take note?

I'll make it simple: most women are a different shape to men. Women do Kendo too, even if not so many of us. Women like bogu to fit properly too.

Why do I have to pay so much more than a bloke to get a do that fits me as well as the low-cost stuff does for them...?

(Sits back to await the flames...!:rolleyes: )

True, its like everything else and not just kendo, i.e women pilots. Just because we're women doesn't mean to say we lack brains, if anything there are women who work harder than men to get noticed in the world with the "its a mans world" title because its such a struggle, pay dispute etc.

Not trying to generalise but from men, women are still looked down upon as being the weaker sex. Bulls*it if you ask me, its more insecurity for them than anything. In my job I look after a team of 9 people and its balanced with both men and women, the women are fine and so are most of the guys but theres always the odd one that nags or tries the lame sexist comment. How sad.

Regarding the mine men, i am not too sure what UK suppliers will do.
Michael from Chibabogu has been very helpful so far, just waiting on him getting back to me.

Im glad Chibabogu has took initiative to make "Women-friendly" bogu, that what has really drawn me to them, cant wait!

If i had alot of money to splash i would certainly have gone for a full set of mine bogu but unfortunately i cant afford it. The rest of the bogu i have is fine apart from the men and the kote, kote is a bit big but i can live with that.

[Lloromannic]

Why do I have to pay so much more than a bloke to get a do that fits me as well as the low-cost stuff does for them...?



I agree with basically everything you've said. As to why you have to pay more, it's really simple. Supply and Demand. When there are enough women practicing Kendo for sellers to justify large scale production of women's bogu then there will be more Women's bogu. So get your women friends into the dojo :D

[Ignatz]

True, its like everything else and not just kendo, i.e women pilots. Just because we're women doesn't mean to say we lack brains, if anything there are women who work harder than men to get noticed in the world with the "its a mans world" title because its such a struggle, pay dispute etc.
There are certainly "glass ceiling" issues regarding women, minorities etc in industry but berfore you make statements like i.e. women pilots you should have some idea about what you are talking about. I understand that it is your dream to be a pilot and I hope you get the chance but, woman or not, if you don't have a bachelors degree and 1000 hours you won't even get an interview with a regional carrier let alone a major. It has nothing to do with being a woman. Women pilots start out at the same payscale as men pilots, crappy. Maybe $20,000 a year to start. You can probably qualify for foodstamps.
Most people get their licences (at considerable cost) and their degree (also at considerable cost) then fly airtours or work at FBO's as instructors building their time. They take every opportunity to fly whether the get paid or not. Then they take the crappy job at the regional and build seniority and maybe get in the majors then after 15 years or so when they are about 50 years old they are doing ok.
So please, spare us the I'm discriminated against in the pilot industry because I'm a woman. You don't even have 1 hour of flying time.
Sorry but it is not easy for anyone. It is like anything else in life, "I want it" won't cut it, you have to crawl before you can walk.

[Commander]

There are certainly "glass ceiling" issues regarding women, minorities etc in industry but berfore you make statements like i.e. women pilots you should have some idea about what you are talking about. I understand that it is your dream to be a pilot and I hope you get the chance but, woman or not, if you don't have a bachelors degree and 1000 hours you won't even get an interview with a regional carrier let alone a major. It has nothing to do with being a woman. Women pilots start out at the same payscale as men pilots, crappy. Maybe $20,000 a year to start. You can probably qualify for foodstamps.
Most people get their licences (at considerable cost) and their degree (also at considerable cost) then fly airtours or work at FBO's as instructors building their time. They take every opportunity to fly whether the get paid or not. Then they take the crappy job at the regional and build seniority and maybe get in the majors then after 15 years or so when they are about 50 years old they are doing ok.
So please, spare us the I'm discriminated against in the pilot industry because I'm a woman. You don't even have 1 hour of flying time.
Sorry but it is not easy for anyone. It is like anything else in life, "I want it" won't cut it, you have to crawl before you can walk.

I know that, i used a woman pilot only as an example.

I am quite far up in the company i work for and i see the discrimination. It does happen. I did crawl, i've had countless crappy jobs at £3 per hour working in a crappy store during college doing Advanced highers or (Associate degrees as you call them there) so i do know what its like to start from the bottom, its took me 4 years to get where i am now. To be a pilot would be a dream but first i gotta save, which i am in the process of doing.

Everyone has dreams, its a matter of grasping it or not, some can do it and some cant. I am determined i will do it, no matter how long it takes.


Sarah

[Lone Kitten]

i don't think discrimination per se is too much of an issue, it's just that it's misunderstanding women that's probably more dangerous.

working in a bank i don't get too much discrimination... we're 15 women to 3 men... we bully the heck out of them. they go and hide in the stationary cupboard!!

[GreenArrow]

There are certainly "glass ceiling" issues regarding women, minorities etc in industry but berfore you make statements like i.e. women pilots you should have some idea about what you are talking about. I understand that it is your dream to be a pilot and I hope you get the chance but, woman or not, if you don't have a bachelors degree and 1000 hours you won't even get an interview with a regional carrier let alone a major. It has nothing to do with being a woman. Women pilots start out at the same payscale as men pilots, crappy. Maybe $20,000 a year to start. You can probably qualify for foodstamps.
Most people get their licences (at considerable cost) and their degree (also at considerable cost) then fly airtours or work at FBO's as instructors building their time. They take every opportunity to fly whether the get paid or not. Then they take the crappy job at the regional and build seniority and maybe get in the majors then after 15 years or so when they are about 50 years old they are doing ok.
So please, spare us the I'm discriminated against in the pilot industry because I'm a woman. You don't even have 1 hour of flying time.
Sorry but it is not easy for anyone. It is like anything else in life, "I want it" won't cut it, you have to crawl before you can walk.

Ignatz,

Some women are very qualified too...

I have a good physical science degree, PhD, I am Chartered with two professional bodies and a member of a third, and I have an excellent track record of achievement. I also work in a male-dominated field. I have no children, nor do I want any- I am career focused. I started out from a family with little money and worked my way through college- I didn't have rich parents to bail me out, unlike most of my peers.

If I am assertive- I am a bitch, iron lady- take your pick, I've had them all. If I am not assertive- I am weak and pathetic and useless. If I accept my place as inferior- I am deemed sound and doing the right thing.

When I attend a seminar/meeting in which the other participants only see my surname and the title "Dr" I am ALWAYS presumed to be male. ("A bloke in his late 50's with a beard" as one more honest delegate told me he expected).

I have taken every opportunity too- and the crappy jobs- but I still get the predujice. But then again, I'm not in the funny handshake club, and some influential golf-clubs still bar me purely because I don't have the right sort of balls. I learnt early on that it isn't enough for a woman to be as good as a bloke- she has to be much better.

In the end, one learns to use it to advantage. If I have a meeting I know I can get a dodgy contractor off-balance as they will always assume I'm the admin (if they see me before being introduced), or that I will be a bloke (if the see my name before meeting me). Where I meet predujice, I turn it against the person from whom it issues.

Think about it. When you hear of a Prof/Dr so-and-so how often do you perceive them as female? As black? As black and female? As Asian? Or do you perceive them as a white caucasian male...?

Research carried out about funding for projects showed that we all tend to subconsciously favour those most like ourselves. Anything not like ourselves is "not the norm" and usually regarded as "inferior"- fear of the unknown leads to defensive reaction. All cultures do this- just look at the Ancient Greeks in Athens, where only male citizens born in the city and owning property had the vote (some democracy!).

OK, this is getting off the subject of the thread. But few, if any, white middle-class men have truly faced the shock of realising you are deemed inferior not because you are not so good/qualified/willing to work but because you are not a white middle-class male (OK, maybe class not so much of an issue in US as it is over here?). The first time you realise- it's not nice. Eventually you wise up and can turn it back on itself in most cases.

But how much does our society lose it the process...?

[Ignatz]

Ignatz,

Some women are very qualified too...
Absolutely and there is discrimination. I'll send you a PM

[GreenArrow]

I agree with basically everything you've said. As to why you have to pay more, it's really simple. Supply and Demand. When there are enough women practicing Kendo for sellers to justify large scale production of women's bogu then there will be more Women's bogu. So get your women friends into the dojo :D

I'd say you've got it the wrong way around. Consider this:

Lots of women do archery- although less than men.

Until recently, few manufacturers bothered to realise that women tend to be better with a 23" recurve bow riser instead of the usual 25" one- when I got mine I had the choice of only 2 to get a decent one to match the level I shot at.

Then a main Korean manufacturer noticed... and started to corner the intermediate level market. Now they supply an excellent range of 23" risers, and others are starting to follow suit.

Point is, the market was there, always had been. It's the male marketing managers that hadn't noticed it. Then one did- and the world changed- and in only about 2 years.

It's a similar situation in the cycling world, the availability of decent ladies bikes is becoming much better. And also, women are realising that they don't have to put up with poor fit that limits their performance.

Ironically, there's chicken and egg thing. Once more women can get kit that fits, more stay in the sport.

The market is there; how do we get the mass-manufacturers to wake up...?

I've decided I'd like to save up for ChibaBogu kit... but it'll take a while. But I'd rather wait and support a supplier that CAN be bothered.

BUT- how many people would still be in Kendo if all bogu was priced at that level...?

[Solinde]

Wow, this thread has certainly worked it's way through different subjects. ;) I'll try to just shortly tell you my points of view...

When it comes to shinai I started out mainly with borrowed 39's, until I realised that I cannot get a grip with a 39 tsuka. There simply isn't enough space in front of me to make room for both dou and a 39 tsuka. When I started using 38's there was an immediate difference. I have two of Tozando's Tozan 38's, one regular and one ladies. I haven't decided which one I prefer yet.

There is currently 6 girls doing kendo in my dojo (3-5 in iaido, depending if people have dropped out or not). I think that everyone is very aware of that fact that kendo scares off many girls/women at an early stage. To counter this effect we have started trying to things. One is that we have newbie practise for kendo and iaido at the same time (this requires a lot of space and a temporary wall, but we have been using a school gym where these things are available), this way there are more girls in the changing rooms and they don't feel as odd. The other is that we're trying to get the girls to get to know each other better, by organizing girls' nights. Don't know yet if that will make a big difference, but it'll certainly be nice. :D

Another tip if you have at least one decent female kendoka in your dojo and separate newbie sessions like we have, is to try to have a female sempai in the dojo as often as possible. I think that most girls feel more secure when they see other girls that are actually pretty good at kendo.

[GreenArrow]

Another tip if you have at least one decent female kendoka in your dojo and separate newbie sessions like we have, is to try to have a female sempai in the dojo as often as possible. I think that most girls feel more secure when they see other girls that are actually pretty good at kendo.

I wish.

Unfortunately we don't have that luxury, and there's not many other dojos near us. I agree about seeing other women helps- in my other activity (archery) it's the same- as the senior female club member I end up doing quite a portion of informal mentoring of ladies who join.

I am told that the other woman in our dojo was glad when I joined- as she is now not the only woman, I guess being older and established in my professioanl sphere I find it somewhat easier- but it's still nice to be able to ask the delicate questions of another woman instead of having to figure it out.

I wonder how many women we lose to Kendo because of a lack of senior women in dojos?

[Alison2805]

quite a few I would expect. I work in a male dominated industry (mining) and am quite used to being the only girl, but even I found it hard to get the guts to really kiai and let loose at training, I still do sometimes.

Speaking of the whole male-female thing, I just finished a stint on a drilling rig on a station in outback NSW (I cant wait to get back in the dojo!!!!!), and one of my bosses mentioned that from now on I am the only female that will be allowed on our rig sites - because they hired ONE woman previously who was lazy. Im seen as "as good as the guys" in terms of work ethic and that is supposed to be unique. Instead of the lazy chick being the exception to the rule, its seen as the other way around. To me, its amusing, it doesnt get to me. Particularly when I had to teach one of the guys how to change and fix a tyre and turn off a subtank on a 4WD.... I laughed my ass off.

[Budo Angel]

It is male dominated, but hey horses for courses. But one London sensei I know commented, girls attract girls - this is not meant as a pervy comment (guys !!!), but simply that 2-3 women, will encourage more. 1 woman, and a newbie turning up will see how that woman "fares"... that's what I noticed most when I moved from Cardiff to London. The changing room was CROWDED (oh my god !!!! :scared: ) but fun.

Outside London I know its a fair guess unless you're a big club that its only 1-2 women..

But Keep going girls, don't burn bras just yet :cyclops:

...and you should most definately be using a 38 shinai !!! I'm horrified when women (even equal in size to blokes) use size 39s.... no need, get a grip !! (the right one of course :glasses: )

[runsyi]

...and you should most definately be using a 38 shinai !!! I'm horrified when women (even equal in size to blokes) use size 39s.... no need, get a grip !! (the right one of course :glasses: )

Why are you horrified? I'm 5'4, 130 lbs. and use size 39s (albeit women's 39s). There isn't much of a discernable difference from my 38s, expect for better shibori on my part (which probably is a mental thing).

[Paburo]

...and you should most definately be using a 38 shinai !!! I'm horrified when women (even equal in size to blokes) use size 39s.... no need, get a grip !! (the right one of course :glasses: )

no need...? it's not a matter of need, it's a matter of advantage! if a girl can be equally skilled with a 440g/3.8 shaku and a 440g/3.9 shaku shinai, then that extra sun/3cms could def make a lot of damage to your opponent...

[Commander]

How do you determine what size to use?

[tantadi]

I guess you have to try it out..imo it has to do with your personal style and ability. I like to have the extra inch when I train with the tall and lanky guys, it makes an difference. And not only against them, some women like to get real close and I like to hit them on their way in. Someone said that the 39" ladies was "just too long for women", well, I think I need a better explanation than that, espcially since many smaller guys than me use a 39. If they can handle the length, why shouldn't we.

[Commander]

Hmm i use a 38 because i was told to, BKA regulations aswell. :(

[tantadi]

I don't think the BKA can overrule the international regulations.

I'm annoyed that women are told to use shorter shinai than the guys when there is no need to. I think maybe it happens because the clubs buy regular 38 and 39, and thus give the 38 to the women. I don't agree with this at all, if the shinai is more cumbersome than it needs to, it will brake the speed you develop with. You don't see the dojos giving 39 to kids, do you?

[Budo Angel]

BKA regulations only apply to official events like shiai. You can use what ever length you like ! they only measure the shinai at a taikai.

[tantadi]

My point was that I don't think that the BKA can limit the length of the shinai women can use to 38 only, that doesn't correspond with the international rules. If you use a 39, it has to match the minimum weight and tip size at shiai.

[Alison2805]

you should use whatever you are happy with! I prefer the 38 now, but Id be happy to use a 39 with a 38 tsuka.

One problem I have come across though - everyone at the club ordered a batch of shinai together, with my ones being the only 38s. Everyone elses were great, mine disintergrated within a few trainings. I know its not me cos my last shinai lasted over 6 months without a splinter. These ones split down the centre of the slats, sometimes 2 at a time. Im down to making frankenshinai until I can get some more. I have no idea why only mine had that problem.
Im hoping it was just a freak occurrance

[Oxygen]

I started using a 39 shinai, but due to my shoulder problems, I recently changed to a 38 shinai. It helped, my shoulders are better and I hope the same can be said about my technique

[Myy]

My experience on 38/39 shinais

With the old rules women were not allowed to use a 39 in competitions so the choise was automatic and the only question when chosing a shinai was how thik the tsuka should be and how much money one wanted to invest to a new shinai.
For a long time I thought I was fine with 38 but when the 39 shinais were allowed in competitions I tried one and it felt good. With the little extra reach and a bit more weight, many techniques became easier to perform.
So I started using the 39 shinai.
Some problems arose though; First there are not many dealers selling 39 womens shinai and the ones I could find have usually been poor quality. The reason seems to be that it is just not possible to make a women's competition minimum weight shinai with the lenghts of 39. Or it is possible but the result is weak.
In japan I do not know any women who would use 39 shinais. I was wondering this for a long time. Until I developed an elbo problem with my 39 shinai. I think now that I must change back to a 38 shinai to save my elbo. then again the problem with 38 shinai is that the tsuka is often way too thin for me. So I guess I'll go for men's 38 shinai or a light version at least.

The ideal would be to be able to go to a bogu shop, hold the shinais and choose the best each time. This not being possible though. I have left a model shinai that I really liked in one store in Japan and I always just order more of the same kind.

One thing I was wondering that someone posted is the claim that women's shinai would be more expencive. At least to my experience this is not true. It is the opposite.

Another one is about choosing a shinai for a beginner. I do not understand the problem or the mistakes here. There are quite simple rules if not in each federation, then at least in EKF, IKF and AJKF about the sizes of shinais for each age and sex. The rules are for competitions but they should be applied as general guide lines when getting the first shinai when one has no preferences yet.

Sorry for getting back to topic :old_man:

Myy

[Inner_Silence]

i use 38 and im a guy! so what? haha

i like it coz is faster.
anyway 39 are nice too...
to me its more important how long is the tsuka

[euclid]

you should use whatever you are happy with! I prefer the 38 now, but Id be happy to use a 39 with a 38 tsuka.

One problem I have come across though - everyone at the club ordered a batch of shinai together, with my ones being the only 38s. Everyone elses were great, mine disintergrated within a few trainings. I know its not me cos my last shinai lasted over 6 months without a splinter. These ones split down the centre of the slats, sometimes 2 at a time. Im down to making frankenshinai until I can get some more. I have no idea why only mine had that problem.
Im hoping it was just a freak occurrance


Maybe old stock, 38s probably don't move as quick as 39s so perhaps a little more dry?

[Alison2805]

yep, thats probably it.

[namabiru]

I've a female kohai holding a heavy 38 (480 grams) - okay for a high school boy, but 40gram overweight for a grown-up female.

... And then I have one of my 38 shinai on a 37 tsukagawa... It was 437grams - going 3 grams underweight...

I might need to invest on a eletronic balance later on...

For practice it doesn't matter so much. Even for your average shiai it won't matter, as they aren't weighing everyone's shinai beforehand. I was told in Japan that I didn't even need to worry so much about the specific weight unless I was going to the Big Show--All-Japan, or the Worlds, or something like that. For that matter, if you were going to a big tournament, you'd probably go ahead and get new shinai to take in order to avoid teary scenes when your practice one breaks anyway, so then you could make sure it was regulation.

[hunnysan]

i use a 38 that was the one given to me according to my size.

[stephanie dee]

I use a 38 shinai. I dont like the 39ers, far too big!!!!

[KendoKidd]

I use a 38 shinai and got it off E-bogu (with no special ladies label). I have had not issues with it. I am 5ft, and when I first started kedno a 38 is what sensei gave me. Perhaps I will got with a ladies 39 next go around. Though I figured if sensei gave me a 38 originally, I'll keep with 38s until told otherwise. It's not like I will be doing anymore growing...

[Raindrop]

So far I've only been using 38er. All except one are ladies 38 and the other one (my 1st one) is just regular 38. They all still feel different, but I have yet to find a "favourite"

I have a question, about those women's weight 39ers. I bought one of those by accident, I wanted to buy a 38er that was heavier (for suburi purposes) but now that I'm starting to become faster I was thinking that the extra inch yet 38er weight would be a big advantage. I do have abnormally long arms (2 inches longer than my height, I'm a monkey :O ) so if I was to use that light 39er I could reach even further.

Now my question is, isn't that cheating in a way? I mean, against a guy, it would even out the playing field, if you will, but against another woman who uses 38, wouldn't it be unfair? They don't measure or weigh our shinais when we do national shiai.

I'd like some thoughts on that from other women/girls, cause I'm using that light 39er at home for shomen-uchi and I'm loving it, I might want to use it during training and maybe even during shiai.

[Neil Gendzwill]

39 is perfectly legal for women.

[bellatrix]

I use a regular 39, but at one tournament recently (*cough yesterday cough*) I handed it over for inspection and the person doing the checking said "isn't that a bit heavy for you?" So maybe most of the women there used a 38. (NYC area.)
I just like the weight and heft of the 39 better. I used to have an issue with women's track gear back in high school. I always used men's spikes, and I preferred the weighting on the men's javelins. Though, that last one might just be because women's javelins weren't regulated for nearly as long. Then again, I could be weird. But I have a pretty typical female body shape...

[ben]

Thought I might weigh in here (hur!) because I often use a women's 38. I also have some custom made 36s and 37s, in both dobari and koto shape, that are >520g.

But I find the 38 good sometimes for its lightness. A light shinai is not a bad thing. It will actually reveal more of your tenouchi flaws than a heavy one. It also means you don't have to put so much strength into your upper body so you can concentrate on what your feet, legs and hips are doing.

For anyone who has the Yoshiyama sensei video (http://www.kendo-world.com/products.php?s[id]=4&s[cat]=4), the woman demonstrating in it appears to me to be using a shinai that is too heavy for her. There is something unwieldy about her kendo and I reckon a lighter shinai would help. Anyone else notice this?

Although she is 6th dan so I probably shouldn't be telling her how to suck eggs...

b

[Tort-Speed]

Hi Ben, Ashamed to ask, having been in Japan a few years, but what are "dobari" and "koto" (the musical instrument, a J. harp, have heard of tho) shinai?
Still-learning-every moment, Pam

[ben]

dobari　胴張り (http://www.onlinekendo.com/extra_photo/421.jpg)

and

koto 古刀 (http://www.onlinekendo.com/extra_photo/451.jpg)　or chokuto　直刀

ｂ

[Raindrop]

39 is perfectly legal for women.

So I could just use one for the national women's champs for example?

[ewanwalker_2001]

I've been thinking of switching to a 38 and wondered if someone could give me some advice. At training previously when using a 39 my right hand wasn't next to the tsuba, leaving about a one inch gap between my index finger and the tsuba. I was thusly told to move my right hand up closer to said tsuba.

At training yesterday, I was informed that my right shoulder was stretching out too far when making a cut. E.G. I should keep my body straight so that my shoulders form a horizontal line adjacent to the opponent.... (If that makes sense...)

I never noticed this problem before when I was using my old 38. If I switched back would this be better for me? Or should I retrain myself in order to keep my shoulders straight whilst using the 39? (Should have asked my Sempai last night but it wasn't until I saw this thread that I started thinking that a switch in Shinai length may have hindered me somewhat...)

Ta,

Ewan

[PhilMcLaughlin]

ewan

as ever ask your senesi, however;

make sure your tsuka is the correct length for your arm before changing

place the end of the shinai in the crook of your right elbow and grip with your right hand
your index finger should just touch the tsuba
if it doesnt then shorten the length of the tsuka gawa (sp?)
you may find you dont like the balance of the shinai as much in whoch case you may consider getting
one with the weight more towards the hands than the tip

hth

cheers

[MiddleEarthNet]

I use a 38. But given that I'm only 4'9'' and when I tried a 39 on my first nights, if it stood on the floor, it would touch my chin. It was too long, even if the weight was fine.

[Alison2805]

I've been thinking of switching to a 38 and wondered if someone could give me some advice. At training previously when using a 39 my right hand wasn't next to the tsuba, leaving about a one inch gap between my index finger and the tsuba. I was thusly told to move my right hand up closer to said tsuba.

At training yesterday, I was informed that my right shoulder was stretching out too far when making a cut. E.G. I should keep my body straight so that my shoulders form a horizontal line adjacent to the opponent.... (If that makes sense...)

I never noticed this problem before when I was using my old 38. If I switched back would this be better for me? Or should I retrain myself in order to keep my shoulders straight whilst using the 39? (Should have asked my Sempai last night but it wasn't until I saw this thread that I started thinking that a switch in Shinai length may have hindered me somewhat...)

Ta,

Ewan

Try taking all the leather parts off a 38 and put them onto a 39. That works for me.

[H.Sandsleth]

Yoshiyama sensei video (http://www.kendo-world.com/products.php?s[id]=4&s[cat]=4), the woman demonstrating in it appears to me to be using a shinai that is too heavy for her. There is something unwieldy about her kendo and I reckon a lighter shinai would help. Anyone else notice this?

Yes I did notice it. And didn´t want to because of her rank..

[Alicia]

I have found that using a 38, or 39 with a smaller tsuka causes most women to coordinate their hand movements better. It decreases problems such as pulling back with the right hand first, and the unison in the movements is much improved. I am not sure if this applies only to women, or if smaller guys do it too, I have only noticed in the girls.

Personally I use a 39 most of the time in training, and 38 or lightweight 39 in competitions. Even just a little difference in weight has a large effect on the speed of the shinai through the air, it is a torque thing. So I train with the heavier one to build up strength. But it is also important to train with the lighter ones that will use as well, to build up your speed at striking and your coordination. Suburi with the 39 or a suburito, jigeiko sometimes, but usually with the lighter one. There is no point in using a heavier shinai than you have to in competition/ji geiko, just because you can handle it and your kendo is fine with it. Give yourself all the advantages you can get. It is like going to training with not enough food or sleep, or too much drink. Sure you can do it, maybe even feel fine, but you won't perform to your optimum. You don't have a point to prove to the guys in your club that you can use the same size shinai as them. Of course you can. But if you don't have to...

I haven't found the length of the 38 to cause any problems at all. If you are striking with the last inch of the shinai you are too far away anyway. If you are hitting with the monouchi of your 39, then you also will with your 38.

Nice to see this thread resurrected, I had a discussion about it with my mate the other day, I think it is relevant, because lots of girls feel they are being lazy for using a 38. This is not the case!!!

[ben]

Do you find that in switching up to a lighter shinai for shiai, that sometimes your hasuji is compromised? IOW do you find sometimes in matches your cuts just don't stick or make the target, esp. waza like harai that have a circular start, can get affected by the lack of tip weight?

Training with one and then competing with the other can be problematic. I would advocate regular suburi with the lighter one to 'groove' the correct tenouchi for a successful cut at that weight. I think it can be incorrect to assume that because you can handle a heavier shinai, a lighter one will be easier. I think lighter shinai are harder to control.

b

[JSchmidt]

I haven't found the length of the 38 to cause any problems at all. If you are striking with the last inch of the shinai you are too far away anyway. If you are hitting with the monouchi of your 39, then you also will with your 38.

Sorry, that's nonsense. Of course you'll lose an inch in distance/reach. You'll need to get an inch closer in order to hit correctly.

[Alicia]

Sorry, that's nonsense. Of course you'll lose an inch in distance/reach. You'll need to get an inch closer in order to hit correctly.

Of course you are correct about being an inch closer. However I don't think that it mans I am not hitting correctly if I don't move that inch closer. I think there is at least an inch worth of the shinai that is the optimal place to strike with, otherwise why would the monouchi be at least ten inches long. I don't think you can say that if you strike at say 4 inches from the end that is a worse or better cut than at 5 inches from the end. Otherwise we would just have a line on the shinai for marking the absolute best place to cut. If you are striking really close to the end of your shinai already, then yes taking off an inch would probably make your cut incorrect. But I have found that I don't notice a significant difference - ie I don't start missing cuts or only hitting with the very tip. It may be that I am slightly too close using my 39 anyway...

[Alicia]

Do you find that in switching up to a lighter shinai for shiai, that sometimes your hasuji is compromised? IOW do you find sometimes in matches your cuts just don't stick or make the target, esp. waza like harai that have a circular start, can get affected by the lack of tip weight?

Training with one and then competing with the other can be problematic. I would advocate regular suburi with the lighter one to 'groove' the correct tenouchi for a successful cut at that weight. I think it can be incorrect to assume that because you can handle a heavier shinai, a lighter one will be easier. I think lighter shinai are harder to control.

b

Yup definitely it takes a while to get used to again. I would switch back to a 38 about 3 weeks before a shiai. as well as mixing it up the rest of the time. The most problems that I have are actually not so much with the control of the shinai, but syncing it with my footwork for ki ken tai ichi. But I find that overall it makes my footwork better, because then you become very aware of your own timing and able to change timing for fumikomi better, even when using one size shinai and doing different speed cuts. But that is just me. I do agree that you can't expect to switch from one to the other overnight, it takes getting used to and some change in your kendo, but if you do it regularyl, I find it beneficial. But I guess it isn't for everyone.

I would take your suggestion to do the suburi with the lighter one and reverse it. I would say train normally and ji geiko etc with the lighter one, then suburi with the heavier for resistance training. But as always it depends on the individual situation.

[ben]

Alicia: Yes, there is definitely the aspect of suburi that is for building up strength and power. But the other (and I would say main) purpose of suburi is to keep your tenouchi honed so that all your cuts remain straight. There's a great Japanese saying, "the only time a snake is straight is when it is inside a length of bamboo," meaning that it is only with the discipline of (constant) practice that we can stay true. That's how I see suburi.

If you allow some time to change over from one length to the other, then you obviously know what I mean.

Jakob: the only time I find the reach on a shorter shinai creates problems is for some debana kote (but usually only when I am not using my feet enough to come forwards, and/or my opponent is pulling back for nuki waza), and hiki waza, especially hiki kote. Otherwise it is not hard to make the adjustment.

The good thing about using a shorter shinai is it demands that you pay more attention to entering (入る). This in turn helps to develop the ability to "win, then cut". That's what I'm working on anyway...

b