Does USA Kendo have WA???

[iwatekenshi]

People haven't touched on why many teachers don't get along in the US so here's a new thread.

I'd like to know why as well, because what I've heard from my friends back in the US the reasons are ego trips amongst teachers. Can anybody validate this fact?

I think there might be some truth to that because how can one area have double federations? This seems pathetic and unproductive in organizational abilities. Two dojos can be in the same city but in different federations? What's up with that?


SHOBU!

[Confound]

I was wondering about that too. What are the differences between the federations?

c

[Neil Gendzwill]

There's only 1 national federation in the US now.

[itazura]

We have one national federation now, but we have duplicate federations in S. Cal. and the east coast.

[itazura]

In S. Cal. there is the SCKF and SCK Org. In the east there are the EUSKF, All EUSKF and the Greater NEUSKF. These in turn are members of the AUSKF.

I can tell that the rank anf file members of the US have WA. The US is full of really good kendo people. I'm not necessarily talking about skill here. Everywhere you go you will feel welcome.

[slidercrank]

Itazura is correct. Off the top of my head, at least New York and New Jersey are covered by 3 different regional federations of AUSKF. In addition, I'm sure there are kumdo clubs in these states that don't belong to AUSKF.

A truly bizarre situation.

I'm certain there was politics involved, but one does not get involved in nana-dan seseis' business.

[moocow65]

if you guys want to know why southern california split up into two divisions, you should just ask M.K.Kawai. he'll tell you the whole story. but yeah, it was mostly about money, politics, and people just hating each other.

[Goyaman]

Yes, unfortunately egos and politics are by and large at the root of the situation. A lot of these differences between sensei come from the days of the old BKR (a precurusor of the AUSKF) and the positions that a lot of the sensei took about whether to establish a new national federation or not. This debate (now long since moot) drew lines of division that can still be seen as the basis for multiple regional federations in a relatively restricted geographical area. There are other political differencs too of course, and then there's just the instances where one sensei/dojo/federation felt they were slighted by another sensei/dojo/federation...

I don't mean to overstate the nature of this situation, as it's very true that rank and file kendoka in the US typically have no problem getting along and understanding reigi. However it *is* also true that this undercurrent of tensions between some sensei and regional federations exists, and the degree of autonomy that instructors and RFs have in the US will continue to enable these divisions.
Hontou ni zannen desukedo...

[M.K. Kawai]

Just to clarify, the old precursor to to AUSKF was the Kendo Federation of the USA (KFUSA). When the federation split into two national federations, the IKF stepped in and laid the law down and told the two to either get back together or get out.

Unfortunately, the root causes and the root issues that caused the split in the first place were placed on the back burnner in the interest of responding to and satisfying the IKF order.

MKK

[slidercrank]

MKK:

If possible, without naming names, can you explain what were/are the issues? I'd like to know not so much for gossiping, but because I'm curious as to what kind of vision that kendo leaders in the US have for the development and promotion of kendo.

I suppose, it'd be a hallmark of a good organization that the leaders could communitcate effectively to the rank and file the issues and challenges facing the organization. Sadly, the AUSKF doesn't seem to be one such...

[M.K. Kawai]

Slidercrank,

There were many issues that caused the split. I'll just briefly explain just a couple of them.

For starters, back around 1987 the then KFUSA held its national championship. A Kenshi who was not a US citizen won. Well that caused a lot of problems because the National Champion normally gets an automatic place onto the US team for the 1988 WKC. What KFUSA did was to render the automatic berths null and void and have everyone interested in trying out for the US team go through the round robin process.

The round robin was held at here in Southern California. I remember going there to help out with some of the courts that day. I also remember overhearing several people trying to find out why all the seats for the US team were open and to get confirmation that the National Champion and the Regional Champion from Southern California would not get an automatic seat on the US team.

This was not the reason why the KFUSA split but was one of several reasons that helped galvanize people to be on one side of the issue or the other with the Kenshi caught in the middle.

I found out years later and had it confirmed recently that the main issue that finally caused the KFUSA to split revolved around money. Without going into detail, it would be suffice to say that accusations were thrown around and as they say, it was the "straw that broke the camels back."

The split I believe occured around 1989, early 1990. It was shortly thereafter that the IKF stepped in to have the US come back together as one national organization. That is how the AUSKF was born.

Unfortunately, the issues that caused the split in the first place IMHO were never really dealt with and as a result the Kenshi themslves are once again caught in the middle. Some may say that its better to be here than where we were back then. That maybe true, but coming together as one national organization has not completely eliminated the bad blood between the former members of KFUSA and those who split from it.

It was a very bad time. One that I would not want anyone here to ever go through. During that time, I saw my dojo get split into two. I saw many people who were friends cross the line and go to the "other side" and many more who quit Kendo forever. I could go on but I think you get the point.

Issues from that time still remain and its something that the AUSKF will have to deal with. Has time allowed us to heal and go on? One would like to think so. But there are still a lot of people in the positions of power who still remember and were caught up in that mess. It will take time to get this out of our system.

MKK

[slidercrank]

Originally posted by M.K. Kawai

For starters, back around 1987 the then KFUSA held its national championship. A Kenshi who was not a US citizen won.


I'm surprised that this issue has been around for more than a decade.



It was a very bad time. One that I would not want anyone here to ever go through. During that time, I saw my dojo get split into two. I saw many people who were friends cross the line and go to the "other side" and many more who quit Kendo forever. I could go on but I think you get the point.


Sounds like the Civil War, doesn't it?

As for Northeastern US, I think it was the same situation as Southern California; when the 2 national federations merged, the 2 northeastern regional federations refused to merge. And from one of them a further split occurred, resulting in 3 federations covering that mecca of the US kendo, NY and NJ.

I'm afraid to ask this... but in the existance of AUSKF thus far, has it accomplished anything that went towards the unity of kendo in the US?

[M.K. Kawai]

I sure hope you weren't in the middle of it. It was ugly.

Even I can't believe that almost 15 years have past. Back then, I wasn't interested in the politics after the split. I was more interested in helping my senseis build up our dojo when our dojo split in two. So I can't really say if there was any active effort on the part of AUSKF to do something about merging SCKF and SCKO together. Are you seeing anything over there from AUSKF to merge the multiple organizations into one?

All I can say is that at the regional level, there was one active effort that I know of where someone tried to get SCKF and SCKO together. It ended in failure and the reputation of the guy tarnished on both sides.

As of right now, there is an effort to try to bridge the gap between the two organizations by having both attend certain tournaments together. One of them is the upcoming team tournament that Mr. Kurukuru talked about in his thread about SCKF vs. SCKO.

While this is a step in the direction of goodwill, it does nothing to address the issues that still divide the two organizations. As long as those issues remain unresolved, it will be next to impossible in getting the two back together again.

It will in all likely hood have to involve active AUSKF action to get the two sides to sit down and talk to each other and work out their issues.

MKK

[Confound]

Sounds like egos out of control mixed with lack of respect and poor interpersonal skills. How delightful, and incredibly juvenile. It sounds like something that might happen in a sports organization, not a budo, and it's positively shameful. With episodes like that, how can we promote kendo to a wider audience?

The whole point of having an organization or federation is to bring people together, not to provide a place for bickering and dispute! (Then again, if kurukuru is any indication, forced exile might be good.)

c

[misterkurukuru]

someone reads too much kenshin....i dont think you can back your words confound. you have shown nothing but disrespect on KWF(like me!) and yet you claim to know about BUDO! someone(as well as myself) needs to study a little more before they open thier mouth!and look people i wrote that i too need to study more and that i dont know about budo, so dont jump on my back...i never said i was a kendo master! I left SCKO and went to an SCKF dojo! there i kinda stayed on the subject!

[itazura]

The whole problem of the two federations started in S. Cal. There are two, now three in the east as a result of it, but likely would have occurred anyway (more ego (2), etc.). It is a very few people that are at the core of this.

This is not some unique problem to the US. Japan is full of this. There are egos galore to go around. They have lots of political problems or disagreements. You also still have a few people at the highest levels that don’t believe foreigners should do kendo. Fortunately they are a minority.

Some of the people involved in the original split in the US are now serving as leadership. The AUSKF had many good programs going and now we seem to be doing not much of anything. We get a newsletter that is late and it tells us have we have raised all this money. The fact is we didn’t raise anything but just didn’t spend the money. How did you guys like your awards at the US Tounament?

To Confound, while I may think mrkurukuru gets a little carried away sometimes, his kendo is at a level already that you may or may not attain. I don’t say this with malice or ill feeling. You constantly attack people without provocation and I get a feeling of bitterness from you. The ideals of budo are fine, but like all the rest of us you are on a path hopefully to bettering yourself. We all have a long ways to go.

The solution to the US is the solution to humans everywhere. Swallow the ego. If only it were that simple….

The bottom line is that the members have lots of good feelings for each other and that is what will win in the end.

[sminki]

well, in all fairness, I'm sure the same problems occur whereever there's a political organization is involved. I'm sure that this is not only limited to federations/organizations in California, but also extends to All Japan Kendo Renmei, Korean Kumdo Association, etc. It's too bad really... especially for a still-growing kendo country like USA where it can really stunt the growth of kendo at a national level by having not enough communication/relationship between different regions/federations caused by ego/pride battles...

[JSchmidt]

It amazes me to no end, that people in amateur organizations, all over the world, get so political. Doesnt matter if it's kendo, rose-gardening, whathaveyou. Worst is that it's usually the best people who get fed up with it first and drop away, leaving no real opposition to the egomaniacs (apart from other egomaniacs)
Imagine if they spend all that energy on promoting kendo instead, eh?.

Jakob

[sminki]

Itokazu,

Did we get a newsletter from AUSKF? Those of us in the eastcoast haven't even heard of one...

Anyway, (to be fair) while mrkurukuru's kendo may be at a very high level (and I have nothing personal against him at all) some of the language and stuff like smack-down, etc. does not entirely seem befitting for a kodansha. He's been in this forum for a while now and while I now see that it's really because of his type of personality being active and candid, I also see that it may rub people in the wrong way...

[itazura]

Yes, we get a newsletter once or twice a year. You can find old copies on the US website, http://www.auskf.info/newsletter.htm still I think.

As far as the smackdown talk goes what can we expect from a nation that embraces the WWF. Jeez what trash. Well that's my opinion anyway. Let's see... what's on pbs tonight?

[samurai999]

Mr Kawai, thanks for redirecting me into this thread.

It seems like all of the disagreements are about the things that I care somewhat or none at all about. Money and politics respectively.

I remember some email passed around a year back talking about the money issue. Where the president wanted to raise more money to provide more seminars (shimpan and summer camps) throughout the nation and help out the situation where kendo is far and few in between. But, somebody argued back that if we did, then the AUSKF might not be considered a "non-profit" org by the US govt anymore. That is where I stopped caring and those emails got promptly deleted from my email inbox.

WWF? We have WWF followers in my dojo. One "really skinny" person that is 3dan comes to mind. m_french and Hongsermeier will know who I'm talking about. :D But all of the things that we make up and play around with in the dojo are outside of practice. It makes practice that much more fun to go to! :D

Tim

[Inouye02]

hahaha hey tim , we have the Jedi mind control wave ..

[Hongsermeier]

ah Tim...the famous wet noodle.....I do miss the peoples kote
Sorry I missed the North-South this year, but Japan called. I do look forward to next year and the smack down that will come when you enter our turff.

[m_french]

Tim..... you wouldn't be talking about the master of massivity himself would you?? I didn't think he was into wrestling as much as the ultimate eating chapionships with his hero Kobayashi. Brad if you liked the peoples kote, how did you feel about Insta-Men??

[Hongsermeier]

Big Mike...ah the Insta-Men.....working on a new one myself. Haven't got a name yet. We can talk about it later.

[TheBraveFencer]

hahaha thats funny...the people's kote and insta-men...haha...I don't see why people can't take things like this with a grain of salt...I think kendo should be fun, and if pretending to be the WWF or acting like kenshin (at appropriate times of course) makes if fun, then do it. I think that a lot of people take kendo too seriously in the way that you disrespect kendo if you act like my good friend Mr. Kurukuru. I have no doubts that he respects kendo and that it is important to him, and he shows it, though he may be a bit brazen when he does.

[samurai999]

Haha.. You go to our practices long enough. You will catch up on different wazas.

Ghetto-ryu
The people's Kote
Shadow-ryu (from the shadow dojo of course)


Also, different nicknames for people

Gung-ho
Ogreslayer
Crimson-commando
The Wall
Latino Heat
Ninja Master Ret.

This is all in fun and outside of practice. Here's one for you Brad.

The Blonde Bushido Basher (too long?)

Hows Miwako doing? She still kicking butt down in SoCal?

Tim

[Hongsermeier]

We had our first Taikai back in Jan. Miwako drew the womans US champ first round. After one year off, due to the kid, she came out and got a beautiful do in about 30 sec. After that she gave up one men, and the judges gave up the other men. I got it on video. The second men never touched her. One shimpan came to our practice the following week and appoligized. She's still pissed.

[kawa]

Source:
http://collection.nlc-bnc.ca/100/202/300/iaido/1995/tin54.html
"
*EUSKF PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION* ----------------------------- The Eastern U.S. Kendo Federation held its Board of Directors Meeting in December 94. The first, and as it turned out, only item of business was the election of the President. The previous election in December 93, had seen the loss of the President's position by Mozart Ishizuka to Garrett Huehner. This year Mr. Huehner declined to run for re-election. Mr. Ishizuka ran for election to President against his son-in-law, Shozo Kato. The result was a 9 to 9 tie. A mail vote was called for, and the results are now in. The new President of the Eastern U.S. Kendo Federation is Shozo Kato. He won with a vote of 11 to 6 with 1 abstention. Congraduations to Mr. Kato. Since his dojo is also sponsoring the May Kendo & Iaido Shiai as well as Iaido Seminar & Shinsa, I am sure he will be very busy. -John Prough
"

You can figure out the rest…..:eek:

[kawa]

EUSKF and Greater Northeastern :D

[Will]

whoa whoa whoa tim, I want a nick name too!

Don't forget two other names
The Korean Bus
and Air Michioka

[samurai999]

I thought you were the "pimp machine".

Tim

[Will]

THAT WAS THE CAR!

[samurai999]

Oh my bad.. Speaking about car, I saw your car in the lot after the Oakland Taikai. Saw the damage you were talking about. Too much drifting practice?

Tim