How can you do a good shudan no kamae?

[Kitsune]

I always have problems with my kamae when I'm fighting and that's because I can not be relax everytime I know my opponent it's going to hit me, so I want to know: How can I be relax in those moments? How can I get a good kamae?

[Ignatz]

Get hit a lot. No, get hit a whole lot. For a long time.

[MikeW]

Kitsune, theres nothing that will instantly help you.. Ignatz is basically correct in that it just takes a bit of time and understanding of kendo. By time I mean it can take months or even years to use your opponents attacks against them without being worried or tense about getting hit. What you need to do is practice and practice being in that situation (getting hit) so that you lose your tenseness, can relax and execute your waza without worry. Good kendo comes when you can attack at 100% without the fear of being hit. This will often lead to actually getting hit at first but as your technique improves you will find that you are winning points and not thinking about getting hit yourself.

[KhawMengLee]

Get hit a lot. No, get hit a whole lot. For a long time.

Heh...actually mate, my dojomate was asking our Sensei about how to fight against jodan...his reply was the same thing.

Get hit...when you are fed up of getting hit...you'll know what to do.

Kitsune...well, the mirror is your best friend...no kidding...stand in front of the mirror and look at your posture and stance...how you hold the shinai...your sempai can give you pointers on this.

Also, you get hit because your opponent is using seme and forcing you to break your control of center. At the moment just concentrate on cutting properly...learn strong basics and don't worry too much yet on getting hit.

[Ignatz]

Good. Now let me add something. (If it is okay with your sensei) when you are motodachi (receiving) during kirikaeshi, don't block. Let your partner hit you so you get used to it but also pay very close attention to your moving forward and backward, that way you will begin to learn maai and how to change it so your opponent can or can't hit you. I think getting hit in this drill is very good for beginners because you get hit a lot in a short time and it can overwhelm you. This is the first step towards defeating your real opponent who is. . .guess.

[LarsCW]

Good. Now let me add something. (If it is okay with your sensei) when you are motodachi (receiving) during kirikaeshi, don't block. Let your partner hit you so you get used to it but also pay very close attention to your moving forward and backward, that way you will begin to learn maai and how to change it so your opponent can or can't hit you. I think getting hit in this drill is very good for beginners because you get hit a lot in a short time and it can overwhelm you. This is the first step towards defeating your real opponent who is. . .guess.

Funny you are saying this a sempai told me to do this to give me this feeling and yes it was very overwelming especially because of his whole posture and pressence, yet this is then only kiri-kaeshi.

This same sempai was one practise hitting me constantly on my kote while I couldn't see how or where he saw the opening as I just lacked the skill to see it. He told me that I just should give it time. Then went on practising his kote.

[KhawMengLee]

Good. Now let me add something. (If it is okay with your sensei) when you are motodachi (receiving) during kirikaeshi, don't block. Let your partner hit you so you get used to it but also pay very close attention to your moving forward and backward, that way you will begin to learn maai and how to change it so your opponent can or can't hit you. I think getting hit in this drill is very good for beginners because you get hit a lot in a short time and it can overwhelm you. This is the first step towards defeating your real opponent who is. . .guess.

Hahaha...I only do this with juniors or selected members...with the juniors I can stop and say to aim properly and to take their time...

But our seniors move like a whirlwind...the first time I did that I got hit the nine times and it felt like getting a constant barrage of left and right hooks...haha...boy, did my ears ring that day.

[JSchmidt]

I always have problems with my kamae when I'm fighting and that's because I can not be relax everytime I know my opponent it's going to hit me, so I want to know: How can I be relax in those moments? How can I get a good kamae?

Think of it like a typeface. If it's cute, purple, and cursive, it wont be taken seriously. Make it strong & bold and people will take notice.

[mark]

Hahaha...I only do this with juniors or selected members...with the juniors I can stop and say to aim properly and to take their time...

But our seniors move like a whirlwind...the first time I did that I got hit the nine times and it felt like getting a constant barrage of left and right hooks...haha...boy, did my ears ring that day.

I thinks you read his advice backward :) the junior is the one constantly getting hit in order to get over the fear and get use to getting hit.

[Kendoka]

I always have problems with my kamae when I'm fighting and that's because I can not be relax everytime I know my opponent it's going to hit me, so I want to know: How can I be relax in those moments? How can I get a good kamae?

Don't fear death! Anyway you are wearing bogu, I hope, so you can't get hurt when they hit you.

Concentrate on placing your body just where and how it needs to be and always ready to attack, relax the back and shoulders and don't worry if the other guy gets you first. Then just look forward to the next opportunity etc.

[thirdegreesidek]

I OFTEN BELIEVE THAT WHEN YOUR IN JODAN NO KAMAE YOU EXPOSE YOURSELF TOO MUCH. FOCUS ON YOUR CENTER. I DO AGREE WITH EVERYONE THAT YOU SHOULD LET IT COME WITH TIME, HOWEVER THE IDEA IS NOT TO GET HIT, BECAUSE YOU WANT TO SURVIVE. I FOUND THAT USING YOUR HIPS HELPS ALOT EITHER IN KAMAE OR GAKU-HANMAE. MY QUESTION IS DO WE USE CROSS STEP AT 45 DEGREES TO DEFLECT OR USE FUMIKOMI FORWARD WITH JODAN/YOKO./

:mad: :mad:

[Paikea]

I OFTEN BELIEVE THAT WHEN YOUR IN JODAN NO KAMAE YOU EXPOSE YOURSELF TOO MUCH. FOCUS ON YOUR CENTER. I DO AGREE WITH EVERYONE THAT YOU SHOULD LET IT COME WITH TIME, HOWEVER THE IDEA IS NOT TO GET HIT, BECAUSE YOU WANT TO SURVIVE. I FOUND THAT USING YOUR HIPS HELPS ALOT EITHER IN KAMAE OR GAKU-HANMAE. MY QUESTION IS DO WE USE CROSS STEP AT 45 DEGREES TO DEFLECT OR USE FUMIKOMI FORWARD WITH JODAN/YOKO./

:mad: :mad:Not in kendo.

[DarQik]

MY QUESTION IS DO WE USE CROSS STEP AT 45 DEGREES TO DEFLECT OR USE FUMIKOMI FORWARD WITH JODAN/YOKO./My question would be, do you actually plan to teach kendo (http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9822) without really knowing anything about it? :disapp: That may be a bit harsh, but have you visited a kendo dojo or talked to one of the sensei nearby yet? It was only 2 weeks ago that you were considering the possibility of visiting one.

I know nothing about aikido, but I did see the motions you mentioned in the one class I observed recently. I didn't think it applied well to kendo--it looked different enough that I decided not to consider aikido any time soon, as swinging from jodan like that might set back my meager kendo progress. I'm sure there are those here who have cross trained though.


As for the original thread, I have been told many times not to worry about getting hit--I wouldn't be able to avoid it or block yet anyway. It's hard for me too, I figure in another few months I might stop flinching when the opponent moves... :silly:

[thirdegreesidek]

Sorry about that! My mistake. I still believe staying focused and looking at your opponent, not fear your opponent. Thanks for the advice on Jodan. As for myself going to a dojo. I have selected a dojo and plan to gothis week, and observe. I just mearly wanted to know when I get in front of someone, I can learn from the mistakes of our peers. I still believe any person willing to get hit is one thing but learning to move and avoid getting hit takes alot of skill. I know when you engage the oppponent you must move, whether it is forward fumikomi, or tenshin,tenkan, taenohenko). Or any other footwork, you are moving, how fast is up to you. Kenshi from all over the world I will hope would agree with me when I say you must move. Or be delivered on a silver plate. Musashi was a great teacher, even now! I think to have good kamae you must be with your center, weight distributed evenly. Now if your going for the kill, not to overextend, this will throw you off balance. Anyone agree, with this!!!::grin: :mad:

[thirdegreesidek]

Sorry about that! My mistake. I still believe staying focused and looking at your opponent, not fear your opponent. Thanks for the advice on Jodan. As for myself going to a dojo. I have selected a dojo and plan to gothis week, and observe. I just mearly wanted to know when I get in front of someone, I can learn from the mistakes of our peers. I still believe any person willing to get hit is one thing but learning to move and avoid getting hit takes alot of skill. I know when you engage the oppponent you must move, whether it is forward fumikomi, or tenshin,tenkan, taenohenko). Or any other footwork, you are moving, how fast is up to you. Kenshi from all over the world I will hope would agree with me when I say you must move. Or be delivered on a silver plate. Musashi was a great teacher, even now! I think to have good kamae you must be with your center, weight distributed evenly. Now if your going for the kill, not to overextend, this will throw you off balance. Anyone agree, with this!!!::grin: :mad:

"Connecting with uke is like the connection between heaven and earth." "Keep your body triangular, your mind circular." - O' Sensei

[Paikea]

Sorry about that! My mistake. I still believe staying focused and looking at your opponent, not fear your opponent. Thanks for the advice on Jodan.You won't be doing Jodan for years - don't worry about it at all.

As for myself going to a dojo. I have selected a dojo and plan to gothis week, and observe. I just mearly wanted to know when I get in front of someone, I can learn from the mistakes of our peers.You will learn more by actually going to practice and doing what your sensei tells you to do.

I still believe any person willing to get hit is one thing but learning to move and avoid getting hit takes alot of skill. I know when you engage the oppponent you must move, whether it is forward fumikomi, or tenshin,tenkan, taenohenko). Or any other footwork, you are moving, how fast is up to you.
First you learn to walk forward and backward. Then you learn to hold the shinai. In the third month you might be allowed to wear a hakama and keikogi.


Kenshi from all over the world I will hope would agree with me when I say you must move. Or be delivered on a silver plate. Musashi was a great teacher, even now!Then there's that whole "Musashi" fetish thing...you get delivered on a silver plate every practice for five to ten years - get used to it.


I think to have good kamae you must be with your center, weight distributed evenly.
Welcome to year 2 (are you getting the "patience" message yet?)


Now if your going for the kill, not to overextend, this will throw you off balance. Anyone agree, with this!!!::grin: :mad:I'm not trying to kill anybody - I'm trying to make excellent yukodatotsu.

[Sepiraph]

Think of it like a typeface. If it's cute, purple, and cursive, it wont be taken seriously. Make it strong & bold and people will take notice.

Or you should just make it blue. :devious:

[Kitsune]

Yeah I should cos they banned me from using light purple:silly: Anyway they won't get me to give up my comic sans ms hohoho:silly: And they won't hit me with my kamae (now it's pretty good!)

[Sepiraph]

Yeah I should cos they banned me from using light purple:silly: Anyway they won't get me to give up my comic sans ms hohoho:silly: And they won't hit me with my kamae (now it's pretty good!)

Did they really ban the use of light purple? O_o Somehow I find that incredible.

[thirdegreesidek]

Happy someone replied Paikea, I have patience, also I know how to hold a shinai- I have been practicing Iaido for a few years now, and I have extensive knowleadge of the cudgal, as for a variety of weapons. I didn't mean to "garbal" and offend you. I appreciate any advice anyone can give, as long as it is constructive. I know it takes a long time to develop good waza. I am not totally inept.:happy:

[Po5i]

Try to be the one who owns the center of the battle, also the "seme" helps

[Paikea]

Happy someone replied Paikea, I have patience, also I know how to hold a shinai- I have been practicing Iaido for a few years now, and I have extensive knowleadge of the cudgal, as for a variety of weapons. I didn't mean to "garbal" and offend you. I appreciate any advice anyone can give, as long as it is constructive. I know it takes a long time to develop good waza. I am not totally inept.:happy:Not "offended", and nobody is implying that you are "totally inept" but you seem to be not getting an important point - you don't do kendo, and you will not be qualified to teach kendo for years. Your knowledge of karate is not relevant, neither is your experience with a cudgel (are you kidding with that?) or any of the "variety of weapons" you may have worked with in the past. As far as my advice being constructive goes, my opinion is that aspiring kenshi sould avoid operations like the one you seem to be determined to set up like the plague.

As far as your experience with Iai goes, care to mention what form and where you practice?

[Ignatz]

Did someone say "CUDGEL"?

[Paikea]

Did someone say "CUDGEL"?Down lad. Only in passing....

[thirdegreesidek]

Hey getting someones deer headlights are really fun! I just was stating first I know I am not qualified to teach Kendo, however yes I did say Cudgel! Anyone else use this massive piece of stick!!!Weaponry is weaponry as far as I am concerned. Footwork is similar, hand position is similar. When did I say I was ever qualified to teach anyway. I cant help it that I read books and videos and go to seminars! What part of the universe is this world from!:mad: The twilight zone?:silly:

[DarQik]

Weaponry is weaponry as far as I am concerned. Footwork is similar, hand position is similar. When did I say I was ever qualified to teach anyway. I cant help it that I read books and videos and go to seminars! What part of the universe is this world from!:mad: The twilight zone?:silly:I don't know about the twilight zone, but I think it's the part of the universe where we've seen people teach really bad things as legitimate and discovered later that it was nothing like the real thing. There are a lot of fraudulent instructors out there, and people who think can learn things immediately. If you're teaching martial arts, you've probably seen a few of those. I believe most everyone is truly pleased to have another student dedicated to long term progress take up kendo.

Rolling back a bit, I would agree that weaponry is weaponry in as much as its original function is to kill, maim, or destroy in combat; but I do not agree that the hand positions and footwork are similar. There is far too much variation even amongst western sword arts for that to be true. Just give it a few weeks after you start learning kendo, and then see if the comments make sense. I would sincerely like to know how well your previous arts affect your progress (for better or worse), but again that's after you've been doing it for a while.

[Paikea]

Hey getting someones deer headlights are really fun! I just was stating first I know I am not qualified to teach Kendo, however yes I did say Cudgel! Anyone else use this massive piece of stick!!!Weaponry is weaponry as far as I am concerned. Footwork is similar, hand position is similar. When did I say I was ever qualified to teach anyway. I cant help it that I read books and videos and go to seminars! What part of the universe is this world from!:mad: The twilight zone?:silly:That's super...really.

Next, please?

[rainmaker]

I went through all the previous thread but I don't think thirdgreeksidek ever mentioned that he is planning to teach anyone. He gives his opinion based on what he have learned from Aikido class which I do appreciate. He also mentioned that he is planning to visit Kendo class to learn little bit more.

His response was not that bad. Most responses are from non-sensei and we are just trying to share information as much as we can. I am sure thirdegreesidek will eventually learn the differences between Aikido and Kendo.

Let's not get too personal.... :vampire: happy kendo, happy kendo, happy kendo..



Hey getting someones deer headlights are really fun! I just was stating first I know I am not qualified to teach Kendo, however yes I did say Cudgel! Anyone else use this massive piece of stick!!!Weaponry is weaponry as far as I am concerned. Footwork is similar, hand position is similar. When did I say I was ever qualified to teach anyway. I cant help it that I read books and videos and go to seminars! What part of the universe is this world from!:mad: The twilight zone?:silly:

[Paikea]

I went through all the previous thread but I don't think thirdgreeksidek ever mentioned that he is planning to teach anyone. He gives his opinion based on what he have learned from Aikido class which I do appreciate. He also mentioned that he is planning to visit Kendo class to learn little bit more.

His response was not that bad. Most responses are from non-sensei and we are just trying to share information as much as we can. I am sure thirdegreesidek will eventually learn the differences between Aikido and Kendo.

Let's not get too personal.... :vampire: happy kendo, happy kendo, happy kendo..The mention of adding kendo to his MA program is here: http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showpost.php?p=167958&postcount=60

[Ignatz]

. . . happy kendo, happy kendo, happy kendo..
You are soooooo sweet but how come you try to kill me in keiko, I'm just a poor old man.:rolleyes: BTW, I'm seem to be getting healtier, I can do about 30% of class now. I'm hoping that 6 months, without relapse, will put me back in shape. Keep a spot on your calander.

This young man has never been to a kendo class but is making assumptions based upon whatever. Kendo is different from anything he has ever done in his whole life and if he starts now he will be middle aged before he think he is any good at it.
The problem is that you and I and the other experienced people know this but can't explain to someone who as not done it. His likelihood of continuing in kendo, assuming he gets started, will be decreased if he focuses upon his other experiences, videos, books fantasies etc. Kendo is really, really hard to learn and it takes a really, really long time.
As for his Cudgel, when I was growing up it was not uncommon to have a Louisville Slugger at your disposal. We lived in the city and did not have baseball fields, we played stickball with broomhandles. The baseball bat was for other endeavors. I can assure you that my knowledge of the baseball bat is not a factor in kendo.
With regard to Aikido, we always say you're only as good as your uke. Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with Aikido, but it ain't kendo and neither is cudgel. It's not "parts is parts and you just fuse the various parts into one big part".
So thirdgeeksidek, keep reading about osensei but also go back and read Paikea's posts, it will be quite some time before you have to worry about engaging opponents and learning from their mistakes and such nonsense. If you don't walk the walk you can't talk the talk, your expertise in cudgel notwithstanding.

[Paikea]

As for his Cudgel, when I was growing up it was not uncommon to have a Louisville Slugger at your disposal. We lived in the city and did not have baseball fields, we played stickball with broomhandles. The baseball bat was for other endeavors. I can assure you that my knowledge of the baseball bat is not a factor in kendo.
"There's nothing like a good piece of hickory"
~ The Preacher, Pale Rider.

[rainmaker]

Hi Paikea,

I was reading his thread and he mentioned that he is planning to contact one of Kendo sensei and I really hope he does too..

http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9822


================================
Posts: 25
thirdegreesidek is on a distinguished road
I have been given permission by the Head Instructor of our school to introduce Chabarra, Kendo, and Iaido. So I wasn't totally ignorant about that. However is it necessary to belong to some Federated Association? I would like to have Kendoka or Sensai's come to our school to show my students this awesome sport. Our school is under a Federation, so I wouldn't be able to belong to an exclusive organization. Is this ok or can I forget the idea! Thanks again!

Talking Thank You
_____
Thanks Gendzwill Sensei for the info. and I will contact them. I hope I can meet some of you in a dojo setting. My space is not very big. I have about 1100 sq feet, but a ceiling that goes about 11 feet. We are looking to expand over the next year or so. I want to add Kendo to my program, so I will start training and maybe by that time I might have a better understanding of it. Like all things in martial arts we need that time to understand.
This dojo is near Monroe, Ohio near Dayton area? That is about 60 miles from where I am. I could probably make it at least 2 times a week, but not all the time because of my schedule.
Thanks again for the feedback.
thirdegreesidek




The mention of adding kendo to his MA program is here: http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showpost.php?p=167958&postcount=60

[Paikea]

Hi Paikea,
I was reading his thread and he mentioned that he is planning to contact one of Kendo sensei and I really hope he does too..

http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9822
Yes, on that we agree. We need more qualified kendo dojos - not more of the Ronald McDonald ones.

[rainmaker]

This is the funniest Kendo fight video I have seen. Just watch this. No need to mention. This video is credit to Phil....

http://fight-vids.net/video/modules/...p?articleid=70 (http://fight-vids.net/video/modules/...p?articleid=70)


"HowD,

I run fight-vids.net and that video is a LOT more funny when you know the situation. That is a guy i used to do kendo with, he is very cocky. I put him in his place a few times, and i think he is the only person i have seen cry from getting hit through bogu. But in any case, he is in Japan on a forigen exchange program. He decides to challenge the teacher of the class! The teacher has him fight the guy in the video, rather than himself. His student only has 4 months of training. The guy that trips is known for trying to challenge people to "duels" with is boken. Anyway, its always good to see people get what they diserve.

-Phil

P.S.- He(the one that trips) had been doing kendo for a few years at the time of this video(this happened about a month ago)."

[rainmaker]

John,

I am very happy to hear you are doing better. You know you are always welcome to our dojo but I have to say that you seems pretty good shape for poor old man... Remember, people pay money to be in your shape. ha ha.. Cheers and look forward to see you next year.




You are soooooo sweet but how come you try to kill me in keiko, I'm just a poor old man.:rolleyes: BTW, I'm seem to be getting healtier, I can do about 30% of class now. I'm hoping that 6 months, without relapse, will put me back in shape. Keep a spot on your calander.

This young man has never been to a kendo class but is making assumptions based upon whatever. Kendo is different from anything he has ever done in his whole life and if he starts now he will be middle aged before he think he is any good at it.
The problem is that you and I and the other experienced people know this but can't explain to someone who as not done it. His likelihood of continuing in kendo, assuming he gets started, will be decreased if he focuses upon his other experiences, videos, books fantasies etc. Kendo is really, really hard to learn and it takes a really, really long time.
As for his Cudgel, when I was growing up it was not uncommon to have a Louisville Slugger at your disposal. We lived in the city and did not have baseball fields, we played stickball with broomhandles. The baseball bat was for other endeavors. I can assure you that my knowledge of the baseball bat is not a factor in kendo.
With regard to Aikido, we always say you're only as good as your uke. Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with Aikido, but it ain't kendo and neither is cudgel. It's not "parts is parts and you just fuse the various parts into one big part".
So thirdgeeksidek, keep reading about osensei but also go back and read Paikea's posts, it will be quite some time before you have to worry about engaging opponents and learning from their mistakes and such nonsense. If you don't walk the walk you can't talk the talk, your expertise in cudgel notwithstanding.

[thirdegreesidek]

I have always believed in the good old fashioned Louisville Slugger, but I hope to try on Bogu, and swing Bamboo! This art looks really fun, and I am delighted for all the honest feedback. Rest assure I have no fantasies about it. I know its takes alot of hard sweat and blood! You guys know more than I ever will, but I hope I may enjoy the company of fellow martial artist. Anyone got a cudgel?:silly: Hope to meet some of you soon. Happy Kendo!:wink:

[kendosensei]

My sensei taught me that your left hand should be about one fist from your bellybutton area and that the inside of each elbow should be lightly against your do. I noticed that most students that have a difficult time are the ones that are tight, their arms are in a locked position making it difficult to move and block. If you have both inner elbows resting lightly on your do then you should feel a lot better.

[mark]

My sensei taught me that your left hand should be about one fist from your bellybutton area and that the inside of each elbow should be lightly against your do. I noticed that most students that have a difficult time are the ones that are tight, their arms are in a locked position making it difficult to move and block. If you have both inner elbows resting lightly on your do then you should feel a lot better.

This is one of the challenges I was told to work on last week :)
mark