WKC 12 Pool Draws

[PhilMcLaughlin]

OK, The pools have been drawn and courtesy of Rob the web master, the details are on the official website

Some intresting draws - im looking forward to watching the matches :-)

www.kendochampionships.com

see you all in July

cheers

[KATSUJIN]

:shocked:
i am in the 59th group for individuals...

:angry:
hey....they spelled my name wrongly....

[Hongsermeier]

Am I reading the draw correctly? Did the US end up in Japan's first round group?

[Neil Gendzwill]

How do the groups work? Round-robin within the group, then top team advances, or top 2 teams advance?

[PhilMcLaughlin]

Hi Neal

as I understand it top 2 teams advance - makes pool 1 intresting and not just because of the US ;-)

[itazura]

As per the rules this is the order of competition.

<in case of 4 teams>
a vs. b
c vs. b
c vs. d
a vs. d

<in case of 5 teams>
a vs. b
c vs. b
c vs. d
e vs. d
e vs. a

If the order posted is correct then the US will not have matches with either Japan or France.

However it is little surprise that the US is in the pool with Japan. And France too? Who does these draws anyway?

[Neil Gendzwill]

Man, that website design needs some work. The draw page is refreshing every couple of seconds so that you can't even use search to find a name or country.

[itazura]

That's because of all the stupid flash adverts.

[Neil Gendzwill]

OK, I don't understand really how this pool stuff works. I presume that the two teams with the best record advance. If two teams have 2-0 records in a 5-team pool, the other teams cannot advance. Looking at pool A:

Japan will beat France and Aruba and advance. The US will beat Aruba and Denmark and advance. France will beat Denmark and lose to Japan and not advance. But if we switch the US and France's spot, France will advance and the US will not. Basically, any team that draws next to a strong team is doomed. What happens if Denmark has a (really) good day and beats the US? Now we've got 3 teams tied for 2nd, I presume it goes to number of wins and then points?

Why not just give the top 8 seeds a bye and let the other teams do a true pool round-robin for the other 8 spots? In the case of pool A, that means 6 matches instead of 5 and probably the US still advances but at least France has a fair shot at it.

[itazura]

If France upsets any of the Japan team then the US if it wins all matches could come out A1. It's an unlucky draw for France. Japan may find it has its hands full with France.

You have to read through the rules to get any idea.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I found the rules on the same website, it has the chart for how the draws go. The US and Canada have a good chance to meet in the quarter finals with the winner meeting Korea in the semis.

[Antonin]

How come the draw list says this haas been done on 11/07/03 ?
unless i am in a timewrap, I though we were still in April...
Antonin

[Tato]

Then you may as well be in a time warp, I think that the rest of us are in may... :p

Rei

[slidercrank]

Would it be unsporting to discuss/speculate who the top 2 finishers will be in each group in the men's and women's team draws??

[Hongsermeier]

slidercrank...I don't think it would be. Could be interesting to see who is right.

[chidokan]

I have decided to enter as my own country after taking over a small island in the Pacific...you will ALL lose to my brilliant swordsmanship. Muhahahaha!!!:evil: :rambo: :laugh:

Phil,
Neils hall is available for a bash... "I'll take yer all on" as us northerners are prone to say to you southern poofters. big room suitable for Iaido as well... Luxury!

Tim Hamilton

[PhilMcLaughlin]

Neil

the IKF make the rules and the draw happened randomly - I was in the room and the positions were drawn by the German Guest to be scrupulous about possible home advantage

japan and Korea were seeded in different halves of the draw

Then the blank draws (to make 4 team pools) were drawn at Random

Then the Usa and Canada (as 11 wkc 3rd place) were drawn places

then the other teams were drawn places

Look at pool H - almost all SE asia and yet it was random too

It raises the possibility of a 'fantasy kendo' wkc on the list - only for fun though :-)

I love the idea that Aruba has an entry in the wkc :-)

cheers

[Neil Gendzwill]

USA was 3rd for the women, for the men they didn't make the top 4 (it was Brazil and Canada in 3rd). Canada got 3rd for both men's and women's teams.

[slidercrank]

Here's my guess how the thing will run:

Top group finishers:

A: JPN, USA
B: AUS, GER
C: BRA, HWI
D: NZL, ITA
E: GBR, ARG
F: CAN, SWE
G: TPE, SIN
H: KOR, HKG

2nd Round:

JPN : SIN -> JPN
SWE : AUS -> AUS
BRA : ARG -> BRA
HKG: NZL -> HKG

GBR : USA -> USA
ITA : CAN -> CAN
TPE : HWI -> TPE
GER : KOR -> KOR

Quarter Finals:

JPN : AUS -> JPN
BRA : HKG -> BRA
USA: CAN -> USA
TPE : KOR -> KOR

Semi Finals:

JPN : BRA -> JPN
USA : KOR -> KOR

Final:

JPN : KOR -> JPN

I will confess that D1, D2, E2, and F2 are nothing more than pure guesses. USA over CAN? I think that's a tough call, but my citizenship demands me to pick patriotically :) TPE over Hawaii? That's only because I'm from Taiwan (for the politically uninitiated, TPE = Chinese Taipei = Taiwan).

What do you think?

[itazura]

Partial guess based on 2002 European Championship.

A: JPN, USA
B: GER, SWE
C: BRA, HWI
D: ITA, NDL
E: GBR, ?
F: CAN, Spain
G: TPE, FIN
H: KOR, HUN

[slidercrank]

Oops, my F2 pick should have been SUI for Switzerland. SWE is Sweden. My bad.

[Hongsermeier]

Slidercrank.....your pics sound pretty reasonable to me. Though I must admit, outside of Japan and US I'm not very familiar with the other teams.

[Ares2907]

I think slidercrank has a pretty astute (or well guessed ;) ) layout.

[PhilMcLaughlin]

Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill
USA was 3rd for the women, for the men they didn't make the top 4 (it was Brazil and Canada in 3rd). Canada got 3rd for both men's and women's teams.

OOPs my mistake, Neil is right, the USA MENS position was pure chance

[KATSUJIN]

....I have to keiko with a Thai and Aruba kendoka......where is Aruba anyway???

[S. Takamori]

Aruba is a part of the Netherlands in the Carribean Islands zone. They got their qualification to the IKF apart from the Netherlands as other "countries" like Hawaii or Macao & Hong Kong...

By the way, my friend Serge confirmed the presence of Hirakawa sensei, kyoshi 8th dan, at the post WKC geiko in Edinburg...

see you in Glasgow!

Saigo

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by Ares2907
I think slidercrank has a pretty astute (or well guessed ;) ) layout.

Except for the part where the US beats Canada.

[mingshi]

Originally posted by S. Takamori
Aruba is a part of the Netherlands in the Carribean Islands zone. They got their qualification to the IKF apart from the Netherlands as other "countries" like Hawaii or Macao & Hong Kong...


Don't know about the other places... But a women from Hong Kong once won the Olympics windsurfing gold medal. (To be exact, it was in the 1996 Atlanta Olympics, when the region was still the ex-colony of the UK). The HK team also did quite well in the fencing events of the Paralympic Games.

Hong Kong and Macau are now "Special Administrative Regions" of The People's Republic of China. Only the military defence is under Chinese government's control, so people there pay taxes to their regional governments, and not China's.

Taiwan is not a technically a recognized country, and their government is desperately seeking recognition from the UN... But Taiwan is completely separated from the Mainland China in terms of politics. They always enter international sports events under the name of "Chinese Taipei". They can't even have their "national flag" in the Olympics.

Yet the Chinese Taipei Kendo team members, much like the Korean teams, are all locals... Er, I mean no Nisei or neutralized Japanese. Kendo became popular in the country under the Japanese occupation.

[slidercrank]

Originally posted by mingshi

Taiwan is not a technically a recognized country, and their government is desperately seeking recognition from the UN... But Taiwan is completely separated from the Mainland China in terms of politics. They always enter international sports events under the name of "Chinese Taipei". They can't even have their "national flag" in the Olympics.


Yep, that's why I identified my place of origin here, because they have Taiwan's "national flag" in the forum software and it's displayed next to my name. You don't see that flag around much internationally.

Originally posted by
Neil Gendzwill

Originally posted by Ares2907
I think slidercrank has a pretty astute (or well guessed ) layout.

Except for the part where the US beats Canada.


Hehe, I knew this was coming sooner or later:)

[Raiza]

Originally posted by mingshi
Yet the Chinese Taipei Kendo team members, much like the Korean teams, are all locals... Er, I mean no Nisei or neutralized Japanese. Kendo became popular in the country under the Japanese occupation.

Uh, mingshi, I think you meant naturalized Japanese. If not, you're on your own. :eek:

[Inouye02]

Seishin Kendo Dojo will be hosting a goodwill kendo event with the Japanese Marine Self Defense Force (JMSDF) Shimakaze and JMSDF Kurama kendo clubs between 1 pm and 4 pm on Sunday June 29, 2003 and 7:00 pm to 9:30 pm Tuesday July 1, 2003. About 9 members Japanese Navy kenshi are expected. This event will be held at the Main Street Gym of Ventura High School at 2155 East Main Street, Ventura, California 93001. Admission is free.

[m_french]

Originally posted by mingshi


(To be exact, it was in the 1996 Atlanta Olympics, when the region was still the ex-colony of the UK).

Hong Kong or Atlanta!?!?!?!?!?

[Hongsermeier]

Inouye2......I work at Port Hueneme. You are correct, but that could change. I'll let you know if it does.
Every summer we get at lest one Japanese ship in. They always have a kendo team on board. The practice last year went very well, except for our poor showing. We played a friendly taikai, but we were short on people. I got to play twice. I did learn alot!! One guy I went against was a godan jodan player. I was lucky enough to get a tie. The only match we didn't lose. I hope more kenshi come out this year.:cross_eye

[Inouye02]

Thanks Hongsermier, I'll probably hear a update at this weeks SCKF meeting...i'm pretty sure myself frenchy, stephan , maybe honda will show up

[doubissu]

We had them come over last Tuesday. About 12 showed up, i'd say half of them under 25 and most 3-dan. Tanaka-sensei was the top guy at 5-dan (6?) if I remember well. What was interesting was 1- they all had very different styles and 2- they don't practice much (i'm not making this up...) being on the boats. They seemed a bit tired. Two of them were attending this weekend's taikai, ask them what they thought about it...

Hope you treat them as well as we did (in terms food & drinks of course)...

Eddy

[Neil Gendzwill]

The US men's team has a shot at 2nd place due to some weirdness in the draw. The initial pools are 5 teams and the US pool looks like follows:

Japan Aruba USA Denmark France

You fight those to the left and right of you and they rank based on team wins, then match wins, then points. Japan thus fights France and Aruba, and the US fights Aruba and Denmark. The US has a very strong team. France has a pretty good team. They might not get a point or win on Japan but even if they hold any of the Japanese to 1 point the US can win the pool on points. In that case, Japan heads over to the B side where they will likely meet Canada in the quarter-final, then Korea in the semi.

If that happens, the US doesn't have any serious opposition until they hit Brazil in the semi. They might be able to get past Brazil and into the final.

Canada came close to beating Japan last time, so if they can manage to do it this time then Japan will be shut out of the top 4. If they get past us, then they have to beat Korea to get in the final and Korea would just be aching to stuff Japan and have a (relatively) easy final against the US or Brazil.

Much better for Canada is if Japan wins their pool. Denmark has to have a good day and/or France has to have a bad day. But if that happens, then its USA vs Canada in the semi for a shot at the Koreans. Maybe I'm biased, but I think Canada can take the US. Korea will be tougher :)

[Hongsermeier]

Eddy..Thanks for the info. I plan on taking some Liquid refreshments. I don't know the rest of the info about food. :cross_eye

[chidokan]

I always prefer to fight the guys in front of me..:D
That has got to be a really weird way of working out the points, no wonder people are panicking over the computer programme!! :rolleyes:
See y'all saturday!

Tim Hamilton