Kim Taylor

Mcdojo limitation techniques??
It's nice to try and keep on the 'straight and narrow', but it will never happen...

Marketing will always win out over Quality... (remember Betamax and VHS...) For me, it probably would help if we did a bit more 'advertising' of the good stuff...

However one thought is the real garbage would disappear with the inventor...most money making scams, (because that is what most are) usually do...

As for the 'slightly away from the main root' ones, I do worry slightly. A clash of personality/ideas is the usual cause, however a note from Japan reminded me that pre-war there was only one umbrella organisation, and that competitive iai has had an effect of dojos 'closing down' their information trading in order to give them an edge over other dojo.... not good for the long term if the effects carry over to koryu dojos...

I think budo ryuha suffer the same fate as anything in an environment of natural selection and the strongest surviving. Determining what these "strengths" are is difficult but as Tim alludes to, the appearance of being a money-machine in the long run creates a weakness.

The existence of menkyo, makimono, named lineages, organisational titles and recognitions are all strengths which will increase the chances of survival but not guarantee it.

As for value of true lineage, I am not sure how this is measured anyway. If people value that "value" then it is valuable, some people do not. Some are quite happy for their jujutsu teacher to make up a kata as a way to learn how to handle the sword. Some go to Japan and learn from a soke of an unbroken lineage. I think in the end, a ryuha which has a history will by its nature, generate a future as people do value things which are old and a bit weird. The students of the aforementioned jujutsu instructor are unlikely to pass on the new kata as their is very little actual substance or weight to the system to be passed on.

Personally, a koryu lineage seems as valuable to me as the current instructor. If the teacher is good, the school will survive for his lifetime at least. The more koryu I get exposed to the more I come to appreciate an instructor who can teach.

Tim wrote:

a note from Japan reminded me that pre-war there was only one umbrella organisation, and that competitive iai has had an effect of dojos 'closing down' their information trading in order to give them an edge over other dojo.... not good for the long term if the effects carry over to koryu dojos...

So your note-maker was saying that there was more sharing of information under the old Butokukai than now when we have the ZNIR or ZNKR which contain competitive iaido? I'm not buying that, presumably the ZNKR tournaments are going to be won by someone who is closest to the currently flavoured seitei gata, and, since it's scored rather like figure skating, is "due". Can't see where not sharing information can help anyone. In fact Jeff Broderick, in his blog a while ago, was bemoaning the homogenization of iai he sees in Japan because, one assumes, of too much information sharing.

As for the koryu, aren't they all about keeping information secret so that they can have an advantage over the guys over the hill? One hears constantly about the deep secrets one only gets told after years of training.

Kim.

If I ask one of the guys I'm learning from where he got his stuff, and we can go back two or three iterations without fabrication, is that a "true lineage", or is it fake because the names don't sound Asian enough?

they do have some 'secrets', but I read these as 'you can't learn without some building blocks below it'... I got shown some interesting stuff on kiritsuke which previously hadn't occurred to me, tried it with my students, but they didnt get it...
I was also wondering about the Butokukai stuff vs modern iai...I think I see what he was getting at, in that people used to travel a lot more between dojos, but seem not to as much nowadays perhaps??

True lineage... where the student can go back several generations with each sensei having spent a LONG time with his sensei...not just a one week seminar...

Originally Posted by Kim Taylor

Personally, a koryu lineage seems as valuable to me as the current instructor. If the teacher is good, the school will survive for his lifetime at least. The more koryu I get exposed to the more I come to appreciate an instructor who can teach.

Something about this jumped out at me again while reading. It almost sounds like you're saying some koryu have instructors that cannot teach as well as you'd like.

If this is the case now, how can we be sure it wasn't also the case at one or more times in the past?

Something about this jumped out at me again while reading. It almost sounds like you're saying some koryu have instructors that cannot teach as well as you'd like.

If this is the case now, how can we be sure it wasn't also the case at one or more times in the past?

The very simple answer is that you can't. That's my point, you're playing telephone tag down the ages without any chance to know what the original phrase was since we have no written or video text from 400 years ago.

What you have is the teacher in front of you, either he's good or he's not. Either you learn lessons from what he is teaching or you don't.

Why would anyone assume that there are not poor teachers in the koryu right now and at all times in the past?

Kim.

For what it is worth, I am very much in agreement with this sentiment, and wanted to be sure I was understanding you correctly.

you have evidence of 'poor' teachers getting visited and harrassed by ronin etc looking to improve their reputations. What is not often recorded is when 'good' sensei get visited and give said visitor a good thumping...

I think you have more chance nowadays of having 'poor' guys teaching, as it is not possible to go round and do these visits any more. (There are a few I'd like to visit, thats for sure! hahaha!!)

I guess the hard part for beginners is spotting who is good or not, as unless they know what they are looking for I guess it could be easy to get taken in...

Indeed Tim, and if your reference standard is the movie industry...

Presumably it is easier these days to find good exemplars with so much on youtube, but of course we are told not to put stuff on youtube because it's impolite or some such... thus making it likely that recordings of the really good guys continue to be lost while the awful stuff remains to serve as an example.

Perhaps your second article (how's the first one coming?) for EJMAS would be to find some good examples on youtube and gather them all in one place. ;-)

Kim.

Indeed Tim, and if your reference standard is the movie industry...

you have even more examples!! hahaha!!

Finding good examples on youtube is like honest politicians... hard to come by...hahahaha!!! Saying that Scott set up a group to gather up the good stuff...maybe not so difficult now I think about it...

For [some] good examples try visiting; [url]www.BrusselsYaegaki-kai.be/ Iaido videos[url]

Some very nice Yamazaki Sensei embu there...........

http://www.yaegaki-kai.be/iaido/iaido-videos/

Ah, top video is of Oda Katsuo sensei who will be visiting Vancouver in July.

Kim.

thanks, nice link with great videos - and if I may add so, a very nice and informative page all in all, IMHO.