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Kendo/Kumdo revisited

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill View Post
    That's an over-simplification. Japanese people combine the Chinese characters in different ways. Sometimes they mean the same thing, other times not. Show the average chinese person the characters for kendo and they'll translate it as "knife road".
    Actually, 劍 doesn't mean knife, it means double edged sword. so, more like sword road. But that statement is not true. The fact that it can mean one thing does not mean it can only mean one thing in chinese. And unless you ask a very uneducated person, they won't think it's sword road.

    Also, the meaning differences also come from othe fact that chinese usage of chinese characters have evolved a lot more than how japanese people use it, probably because chinese have had a lot more outside influences and the fact that chinese usage have always been somewhat different throughout China. As you know, the first emperor of china unified the writing system after unifying china.

    There are no instances where a chinese word can't mean the same thing in japanese as in chinese. Just the basic usage could be different. For example, the kanji used for hot water in Japanese means soup in Chinese usage now, but the basic meaning for it is hot liquid.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by bullet08 View Post
      i think almost everything came to korea and japan from china. other than kimchee.. KIMCHEE'S OURS!
      haha. actually... northern chinese people eat a lot of kimchee stuff, but they just don't put spice in it like john mentioned. Southern Chinese don't have the culture of eating kimchi because they didn't have to to survive.

      But yea. I do agree kendo is japanese just to be clear.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by johnkichu View Post
        True - if there is Chinese character for it, it's a Chinese word.

        Speaking of Chinese characters - doesn the character for kum/ken, 劍,actually refer to the double bladed sword, and there is another character (do - but not the "way" do) which refers to the single bladed sword?

        Also, since the term kumdo/kendo (劍道) was never trademarked or copyrighted, anyone who teaches any sword art can use it - to the chagrin was many in this forum.
        劍 does mean double sided sword usually, but, it is also used to class the weapon class 'sword' double or single sided. Also, 劍 is viewed as a more esteemed weapon than 'to' (dao in chinese), maybe that's why too.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Shazzanzzz View Post
          劍 does mean double sided sword usually, but, it is also used to class the weapon class 'sword' double or single sided. Also, 劍 is viewed as a more esteemed weapon than 'to' (dao in chinese), maybe that's why too.
          Hi Sean,

          Can you post the character for 'to' (dao in chinese)?

          I guess it does sound kind of stupid to say do-do. Kendo/kumdo sounds much better.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Shazzanzzz View Post
            And unless you ask a very uneducated person, they won't think it's sword road.
            Well, my college-educated friend from mainland China translated it "knife road" but when I said "sword way" he said he could see it that way, too.
            There are no instances where a chinese word can't mean the same thing in japanese as in chinese.
            True, but the common usage can be so different that it becomes tough to translate. I've asked Chinese friends to translate some Japanese descriptions from a catalog, and they struggle to come up with anything. Similarly my Japanese friends have trouble reading Chinese. So even though it's the same characters, the usage makes a big difference.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill View Post
              True, but the common usage can be so different that it becomes tough to translate. I've asked Chinese friends to translate some Japanese descriptions from a catalog, and they struggle to come up with anything. Similarly my Japanese friends have trouble reading Chinese. So even though it's the same characters, the usage makes a big difference.
              I've heard almost the exact same thing from a French guy complaining about Canadian French. I worked on a roll out of a system in Canada, and on my team was a French couple. I grew to feel really sorry for them - they were so aggravated!

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill View Post
                descriptions from a catalog, and they struggle to come up with anything. Similarly my Japanese friends have trouble reading Chinese. So even though it's the same characters, the usage makes a big difference.
                I think thats mainly because where the chinese have tense altering (or the like) kanji for various situations, different forms in hiragana are used in japanese, so unless the chineses person understands hiragana, then even something as simple as a negative might slip them by, and vice-versa.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Nanbanjin View Post
                  Could we maybe just agree that it originated in Taiwan?
                  Hong Kong, definitely. Or maybe Vancouver?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Nanbanjin View Post
                    Could we maybe just agree that it originated in Taiwan?
                    i cast my vote with swiss. they are a neutral contry, who's going to debate with them? hahahaha.

                    in the end, only the results matters. until then let the political corrupt/savy individuals deal with the politics, and we (the majority of us who do kendo/kumdo) have will have our kendo intacted/undisturbed.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by johnkichu View Post
                      Hi Sean,

                      Can you post the character for 'to' (dao in chinese)?

                      I guess it does sound kind of stupid to say do-do. Kendo/kumdo sounds much better.
                      one sided sword is 刀. That's what they would use for a katana also.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill View Post
                        True, but the common usage can be so different that it becomes tough to translate. I've asked Chinese friends to translate some Japanese descriptions from a catalog, and they struggle to come up with anything. Similarly my Japanese friends have trouble reading Chinese. So even though it's the same characters, the usage makes a big difference.
                        agreed. to me it's a little like reading spanish. You can make out some of the words... but that's it.

                        It would be funnier you ask your chinese friends if they know what 'jiandao' 劍道 is verbally. Because it pronounce the same as 見到, which sounds exactly the same but means 'have seen'... And add in some english accent... it'll probably sound like 剪刀, which is also 'jiandao' but with different accents, and it means scissors...

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Masahiro View Post
                          i cast my vote with swiss. they are a neutral contry, who's going to debate with them? hahahaha.
                          A Swiss Army Shinai would be really cool.
                          When I first looked for shinai in Austalia most of them had a sticker on them saying "Made in Taiwan" which is about as strong as any evidence for the origin of kendo I've seen put forward. Anyway, I'm sticking with Taiwan.

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                          • #28
                            For all of you spelling guys and gals. Not kanji but can they do this in chinese?

                            http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...ading_Test.jpg


                            p.s. Kimchee was invented in Brooklyn by a guy named Omar.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Ignatz View Post
                              p.s. Kimchee was invented in Brooklyn by a guy named Omar.
                              I knew it!

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                              • #30
                                I heard kimchi strengthens your kendo spirit...

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