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which way will you vote? Kerry or Bush?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by MabahoMan
    Not all problems can be solved by talking about them. You don't appease a bully, you punch him in the nose.
    Still, if you had a chance to make a bully a peaceful person, would you do it?
    I think your answer is yes, I just think that punching him won't help him alot (well if he's not bright). Please tell the thruth, don't you think punching a bully makes you a bully, so that in this case you would be fighting what you don't like, be becoming the thing you don't like? if, yes, please specify why.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Hisham
      I would ve been pretty shoked if you voted Kerry.
      I won't comment on the issues that you brought up on your posts for the simple fact that your oppinion is based solely on prejudice and propaganda...
      Al-queda supporter alert.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by litige
        Still, if you had a chance to make a bully a peaceful person, would you do it?
        I think your answer is yes, I just think that punching him won't help him alot (well if he's not bright). Please tell the thruth, don't you think punching a bully makes you a bully, so that in this case you would be fighting what you don't like, be becoming the thing you don't like? if, yes, please specify why.

        punching a bully is going down to the bullys level... its better to not stoop as low as the bully...
        my hubby seems to think that saddam was iraqs glue.. he had all thoose muslims under his finger and under control... kinda like a dam wall... now iraq is closer to hell on earth..

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by litige
          Yeah, kinda like a retard, with values 200 years old.
          There is nothing wrong with good old fashioned values. I'd much rather them, than the so-called "values" of today. There is nothing wrong with being classy and having good old fashioned values. Young kids today often are SO rude. Not to mention all the trashy teen behavior and adult behavior seen on TV these days that are shaping people's real life behaviors. Oh man.. Don't even get me started. It is not bad to want clean values.

          Kaoru

          Comment


          • #35
            The war in Afghanistan was justified. Al Qaida was there. The war in Iraq was a fiasco and greed is definately an issue.

            You don't sacrifice thousands of innocent iraqis to get one guilty man.

            Iraq is a volatile state. Saddam, a Sunni muslim, is a moderate in religious terms and the majority of the population are Shiites(hard line fundamentalists). Saddam, as much of a bastard as he was, was keeping Al Qaida out of Iraq because the two hate each other(as per result of the Iran-Iraq war).

            The invasion of Iraq has now pitted both local Sunnis and Insurgent/Local Al Qaida fighters into the fray. So much for keeping down terror.

            ************************************************** ****

            As for greed. Lets not forget Bush and Cheney's onvious link to Haliburton(Who have been awarded uncontested bids to rebuild iraq). Who now face a major FBI investigation into overcharging the American taxpayers for services in Iraq.


            Democracy cannot be forced upon others. It is a goal that must be reached/fought for by the local population.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Wifenmummy
              punching a bully is going down to the bullys level... its better to not stoop as low as the bully...
              my hubby seems to think that saddam was iraqs glue.. he had all thoose muslims under his finger and under control... kinda like a dam wall... now iraq is closer to hell on earth..
              That s why he had the full support of the US goverment before he touched Kowait,not even the support he was the agent of the US goverment ,remember the Irak vs Iran war.
              But like any mafia ,when the bosses percieve you as useless they will get rid of you by any means.

              Mabahoman if you really think that the US military goes around the world fighting for the sake of humanity and freedom ,then you should see less of those propaganda movies.
              How long did it take for the US goverment to give the green light to the military to do something about Bosnia,what happened in Ruwanda and the forgotten Chechnia?(question "what are the benefits we can get by sending troops there?"),how long has Saddam been in power without any US government bothering him over the years ,just look at what the US government did in countries of south america (Noriega ,Pinochet).
              Soldiers come from the people ,from middle and lower class to be specific.Many are desillusioned when they see through the politicians games.
              Wake up man , the US as most countries on this planet are not governed by the people ,financial powermongers are the ones looking after our dear planet.
              You can choose to stick to what your told by biased media and be a sheep or set youreself free by reading between the lines and build up your own view.
              Sadly since Vietnam (who benefited from that war?certainly nor the vietnamese nor the families of the 58.000 US KIAs) american soldiers who i must stress again on the fact that most of em did/do believe that they're fighting for freedom are dying to make a certain elite stronger.Your hate should be focused on the latter.
              Unfortunately human values only exist in speeches and movies ,money is what this world is about,see it from the point of view of WallStreet and you ll have most of the world issues figured out.
              Have you ever been to a "third world country" and sat and talked with its people?by the words that you're typing ,i don t think so.Get out man!you're living in a shell and get rid of your one sided views,the world is not white and black, the world is grey.
              What do i know about islam and muslims?, and what do i know about there history,there countries,there cultures....etc?These are one of the many questions you should be asking yourself before you start giving lectures about world politics.
              If there's anything that a modern country gives to its cityzens ,it's easy access to information from whatever source.Do your homework and don't rely only on what you're told and what you're made to see.
              Live your freedom ,and here i'm pointing to the mind's freedom.Don't be just another consumer ,a statistic be human in the macro sense of the word.
              Humanity of the self and in general is taken for granted, well it s not! we have to work at it everyday,Kendo sould help you with that.
              To go back to the tittle of this thread ,Bush is but the tip of the iceberg.This goes for all the heads of states of the world,think about it.

              Oh about the french and german governments,i totally agree that they weren't upset because poor irakies were suffering but actually because they lost the contracts they had with Saddam .
              The US big corporations suffered a big setback obviously because of the effects of Desert storm and not getting rid of Saddam at that time,now thanks to the saccrifice of US soldiers they claimed the Iraki market back,the only problem as Wifenmummy s husband pointed out Saddam s glue is gone with him.There s a lot to be said on this issue but i went far enough of this thread's subject and for that i appologies.

              Comment


              • #37
                Hisham,
                You are a supporter of Osama bin Laden and Al-queda?

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Hai_hai
                  Hisham,
                  You are a supporter of Osama bin Laden and Al-queda?
                  Hai Hai are you familiar with the term polarizing? Sentences like that are in no way constructive and frankly I don't see any humour in this. Humour I thought you were know for.
                  If you don't like what someone is saying reasoning is the better option.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by ShudoKan Kai
                    Hai Hai are you familiar with the term polarizing? Sentences like that are in no way constructive and frankly I don't see any humour in this. Humour I thought you were know for.
                    If you don't like what someone is saying reasoning is the better option.
                    It is a real question. There are peaceful Muslims and non-peaceful Muslims. Some Muslims who are peaceful don't agree with US policy, and there are others who are not peaceful and believe in the "holy war" against the US. Hisham is making statements that border on indirectly supporting Osama bin Laden's jihad.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by KhawMengLee

                      As for greed. Lets not forget Bush and Cheney's onvious link to Haliburton(Who have been awarded uncontested bids to rebuild iraq). Who now face a major FBI investigation into overcharging the American taxpayers for services in Iraq.
                      Dude, Cheney used to work for Haliburton, the money he is receiving is his retirement.



                      I would certainly hope that if I was a VP or GM of such a large, successful company that i would be able to draw such a large retirement check.



                      And if Halliburton puts in a bid for a job, and it is uncontested due to other companies not being able to do that job for lower then the price given by that company, why is that wrong?



                      And why would the FBI investigate over taxation? In our government that would be the job of Congress and/or a Special Committee made up of congressmen and senators.



                      Could you please give us your sources of this information? I would love to be able to see where you are getting this. And if it is from Michael Moore.....Glad to see you bought into the propaganda.
                      Last edited by JHusch; 5th November 2004, 04:44 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        good clean values is a must in a world that is full of such crap!
                        theres tons of propaganda out there... michael moore is interesting to watch but i dont buy most of it..
                        talking about how its wrong that america went into iraq wont change a thing... its already been done...
                        what was kerry going to do about it? was he leaving troops there or bringing them back? (jus curious)
                        the world is afraid of bush (is it not?) mostly coz he took down saddam and cake walked straight into another country without UN approval? now u have to say Bush has some HUGE BALLS for that! LOL!
                        of course bush would have to wait for the ecomony to pick up again to charge into korea or iran i dont think he will...

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Kaoru
                          There is nothing wrong with good old fashioned values. I'd much rather them, than the so-called "values" of today. There is nothing wrong with being classy and having good old fashioned values. Young kids today often are SO rude. Not to mention all the trashy teen behavior and adult behavior seen on TV these days that are shaping people's real life behaviors. Oh man.. Don't even get me started. It is not bad to want clean values.

                          Kaoru
                          The grass is always greener on the other side Kaoru. It's also the retro effect which makes us yearn for the times gone by. The values 200-100 years ago were not better than those today. Gentlemanly conduct at it's base was veiled chauvinism and mysoginous conduct. It goes against my belief that women are just as good as men and don't need special privileges to mask the social inequality. Many of my favourite writers are from that period and as much as I like them, they were elitist. Mass education was not available in those times and the educated people could not care less for those uneducated. The rich people were very rich and the poor people very poor, governments were totalitarian regimes who made war on a whim, actually we haven't progressed much since then. Pining for the values gone will not bring them back, nothing will, they are outdated and useless for our times.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Wifenmummy
                            good clean values is a must in a world that is full of such crap!
                            theres tons of propaganda out there... michael moore is interesting to watch but i dont buy most of it..
                            talking about how its wrong that america went into iraq wont change a thing... its already been done...
                            what was kerry going to do about it? was he leaving troops there or bringing them back? (jus curious)
                            the world is afraid of bush (is it not?) mostly coz he took down saddam and cake walked straight into another country without UN approval? now u have to say Bush has some HUGE BALLS for that! LOL!
                            of course bush would have to wait for the ecomony to pick up again to charge into korea or iran i dont think he will...
                            From what Kerry was saying, is that if his policy was followed the US could pull out of Iraq. Kerry never defined his policy, it could have been getting support from France, Germany and Russia, who are now being looked at in a UN investigation of the oil for food program. France and Germany came out and said that they don't care if Kerry was elected they would not support the war anyway.

                            So, Kerry would continue with the same plan as Bush, but again Kerry never said.

                            I forget the exact number of UN resolutions that Saddam violated and war could have resulted under Clinton.

                            I wonder if people remember what the president of France did after coming into office? Detonated 2 nukes in the south pacific, against UN treaties.

                            Did anyone hear about France at war in Africa defending the coaco bean? That happened at the same time as the Iraq invasion.

                            Truth, what is truth?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Kaoru
                              There is nothing wrong with good old fashioned values. I'd much rather them, than the so-called "values" of today. There is nothing wrong with being classy and having good old fashioned values. Young kids today often are SO rude. Not to mention all the trashy teen behavior and adult behavior seen on TV these days that are shaping people's real life behaviors. Oh man.. Don't even get me started. It is not bad to want clean values.

                              Kaoru
                              I'm more talking about the Constitution, espcially, Amendment number 2
                              "Amendment II

                              A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

                              It's more than 200 years old, but still people say in America that have to do it, because it's written there.

                              Also look at the Fourth
                              "Amendment IV

                              The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

                              Wich was obviously violated during the war in Irak.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by JHusch
                                Could you please give us your sources of this information? I would love to be able to see where you are getting this. And if it is from Michael Moore.....Glad to see you bought into the propaganda.
                                Main Entry: propaganda
                                Pronunciation: "pr-p&-'gan-d&, "prO-
                                Function: noun
                                Etymology: New Latin, from Congregatio de propaganda fide Congregation for propagating the faith, organization established by Pope Gregory XV died 1623
                                1 capitalized : a congregation of the Roman curia having jurisdiction over missionary territories and related institutions
                                2 : the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person
                                3 : ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause; also : a public action having such an effect
                                - propagandist /-dist/ noun or adjective
                                - propagandistic /-"gan-'dis-tik/ adjective
                                - propagandistically /-ti-k(&-)lE/ adverb
                                Please look at entry number 2. If we go by the dictionnary, everyone is doing propaganda, every time we speak!
                                Now, I would say that Micheal Moore passed information, for the purpose to help the residents of the United-States decide for who to vote. So in my sense, it's not bad (As far as I know, he didn't insulted him in the movie).

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