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which way will you vote? Kerry or Bush?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by shotobouv
    From what Kerry was saying, is that if his policy was followed the US could pull out of Iraq. Kerry never defined his policy, it could have been getting support from France, Germany and Russia, who are now being looked at in a UN investigation of the oil for food program. France and Germany came out and said that they don't care if Kerry was elected they would not support the war anyway.

    So, Kerry would continue with the same plan as Bush, but again Kerry never said.

    I forget the exact number of UN resolutions that Saddam violated and war could have resulted under Clinton.

    I wonder if people remember what the president of France did after coming into office? Detonated 2 nukes in the south pacific, against UN treaties.

    Did anyone hear about France at war in Africa defending the coaco bean? That happened at the same time as the Iraq invasion.

    Truth, what is truth?

    thanks for the info.. i thought his plan was to pull out of iraq but then yeah what happens next? the opposition party here didnt win the election and they wanted to pull australian forces out of iraq...
    i cant stand france..... i suppose france went into africa when they thought no one would care and everyones to busy with iraq.. typical.. no balls!

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by JHusch
      Dude, Cheney used to work for Haliburton, the money he is receiving is his retirement.



      I would certainly hope that if I was a VP or GM of such a large, successful company that i would be able to draw such a large retirement check.



      And if Halliburton puts in a bid for a job, and it is uncontested due to other companies not being able to do that job for lower then the price given by that company, why is that wrong?



      And why would the FBI investigate over taxation? In our government that would be the job of Congress and/or a Special Committee made up of congressmen and senators.



      Could you please give us your sources of this information? I would love to be able to see where you are getting this. And if it is from Michael Moore.....Glad to see you bought into the propaganda.

      Not Michael Moore, tho I did enjoy the film. If you look back at news on Yahoo news there was quite a few articles on this subject.

      Dick Cheney denied there was any link between Halliburton getting contracts and his office. At the start of this year there was an article(yahoo news) about an email directly from his office instructing the military to award a particular contract to Haliburton.

      One notable one was the 'ghost' freights issue. Where Halliburton was charging the Govt. after driving empty trucks up and down Iraq. The drivers spoke out because they were dying for nothing. This wasn't driving with an empty rig to an area and then picking up something, this was driving to the area and then driving back with nothing on the cargo hold for both trips.

      Then there was the case being investigated where an Australian catering firm was awarded a subcontract, then it was cancelled due to them not paying enough kickbacks to the Halliburton employee involved in hiring them.

      Halliburton has been suspect and under investigation for overcharging taxpayers for the job in Iraq. Its also suspiscious that key members in your Govt. have strong links to the company and at the same time it is not unfeasable they have a hidden vested interest there.

      Comment


      • #48
        Wow this thread has become as entertaining as anything on usenet. In one corner we have the Bush-can-do-no-wrong camp versus pretty much the rest of the world.

        The pro-Bush side says, "leave him alone, it's not his fault the rest of the world sucks. He's doing his mentally-challenged best to make the world safe for America's economy." While the otherside says, "he's a hypocrite and a dangerous fascist."

        Both sides truely believe their positions and in their better moments try and reason with some sort of civility.

        Either way, the election is over. We'll just have to wait and see what happens now. If I lived in Iran, the Sudan, or North Korea I'd be selling my house and moving far away now.

        Brian

        Comment


        • #49
          Being in the UK, it is clear to the majority of the people I talk to that Bush is though to be a puppet of the administration as a whole - and as such takes all the flack (which is his job I guess). As to whether Kerry would be the same - who knows?!!

          My opinion in a nut shell is that Bush was justified to go after Osama, and Sadam was a danger - but unlike in Afghanistan where the people were with the forces there and supported his cause, he completely f*%$d up in Iraq - as is blindingly obvious to any sane person today. The world as a whole should of made far more progress in the years after the first Iraq war and helped the people get rid of Sadam themselves. At the start of the campaign, when the soldiers went into Iraq to remove Sadam the people were hugely grateful. Huge errors on the administrations part have turned this open affection into hatred.

          I completely agree with the statements that A) you can NEVER enforce democracy - it has to be wanted by the people to be successful and B) no one man is worth all this loss of human life.

          I also think it is VERY dangerous for America to mix Christian values with a war against an Islamic state. This does show a Christianity vs. Islam war - whether this is the case or not.

          Also extremists are extremists - and when Christians ran through the world killing 'non-believers' during the crusades they were just as wrong as any others.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Hai_hai
            It is a real question. There are peaceful Muslims and non-peaceful Muslims. Some Muslims who are peaceful don't agree with US policy, and there are others who are not peaceful and believe in the "holy war" against the US. Hisham is making statements that border on indirectly supporting Osama bin Laden's jihad.
            I'm sure you know why i wouldn't answer you before,this last post that i quoted is not an empty comment so here is my answer:No i'm no supporter of Ben Laden or any kind of agression acts ,i thought i made that clear in my posts.I believe in universal human values and i consider myself a cityzen of the world .
            For the record Jihad is a profound and large concept and war in it is waged only to defend against agressors ,in islam provoking somebody is a sin, clearly stated in the Coran (there's even a verse where calling people names is prohibited) and don't go quoting a verse from it like some people do without understanding the context and reading the whole surat .Those muslims who attack innocents are ignorants choosing the easy way out,instead of using there brains to find ways to educate there people so that there countries get back to the light of civilization,a long term venture which will take much Jihad(effort).
            Again as we all know it's pretty easy to destroy than to build on solid basis.
            Well i hope that answered your question Hai Hai.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Hai_hai
              It is a real question. There are peaceful Muslims and non-peaceful Muslims. Some Muslims who are peaceful don't agree with US policy, and there are others who are not peaceful and believe in the "holy war" against the US. Hisham is making statements that border on indirectly supporting Osama bin Laden's jihad.
              Could you point that out for me?

              I do not in any way sympathise with Bin Laden, or any other Muslim fanatic's faction. But I read Hisham's text as a point of view that is somewhat different point of view as ordinary Americans.
              Don't just criticize his text. If you disagree, tell him where he's wrong. Then there is a discussion, and duscussion is good.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Hisham
                I'm sure you know why i wouldn't answer you before,this last post that i quoted is not an empty comment so here is my answer:No i'm no supporter of Ben Laden or any kind of agression acts ,i thought i made that clear in my posts.I believe in universal human values and i consider myself a cityzen of the world .
                For the record Jihad is a profound and large concept and war in it is waged only to defend against agressors ,in islam provoking somebody is a sin, clearly stated in the Coran (there's even a verse where calling people names is prohibited) and don't go quoting a verse from it like some people do without understanding the context and reading the whole surat .Those muslims who attack innocents are ignorants choosing the easy way out,instead of using there brains to find ways to educate there people so that there countries get back to the light of civilization,a long term venture which will take much Jihad(effort).
                Again as we all know it's pretty easy to destroy than to build on solid basis.
                Well i hope that answered your question Hai Hai.
                Well since you stated it for the record, that's fine. There are direct supporters, sympathizers (people who wouldn't perform acts of aggression but support the activity), and non-supporters. I can't tell since you are from Morocco, a country known for having peaceful Muslims but have had recent "extremist" Muslim activity.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Hai_hai
                  Well since you stated it for the record, that's fine. There are direct supporters, sympathizers (people who wouldn't perform acts of aggression but support the activity), and non-supporters. I can't tell since you are from Morocco, a country known for having peaceful Muslims but have had recent "extremist" Muslim activity.
                  Every country has seen or is seeing some extremists activity be it religious,nationalistic or racist ,unfortunately Morocco is no exeption as it was proven by the bombing that took place in Casablanca.Poverty and ignorance makes it easy for some people to manipulate others, and i think this to be true wherever you go.
                  Last edited by Hisham; 6th November 2004, 05:31 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Lloromannic
                    The grass is always greener on the other side Kaoru. It's also the retro effect which makes us yearn for the times gone by. The values 200-100 years ago were not better than those today. Gentlemanly conduct at it's base was veiled chauvinism and mysoginous conduct. It goes against my belief that women are just as good as men and don't need special privileges to mask the social inequality.
                    I don't see such things as opening a door for a girl/lady, standing when a lady enters a room or raising a hat to them or other such pleasentries as chauvinistic or as special priviledges. Most of these things have gone out the window because of feminists. My Dad has told me of so-called "ladies" who have yelled at him for opening a door for them.
                    What is wrong with that? I think a guy can be respectful of a girl/lady and not be chauvinistic, if they are taught not to think girls are worth nothing. And, I think a girl can be taught to think the same of a guy.
                    I just think it is a shame for chivelrous conduct to die out. It can survive in a modern form, if it is allowed. But sadly, guys often don't want to be polite to girls, and girls often try too hard to be just like guys.There is nothing wrong with being a girl. I believe in equal rights and everything with it. But, I am not opposed to a guy being a gentleman.

                    Oh and also, there where codes for girls to follow too, and some of those are just good manners. Some though ARE outdated. hahaha, You should see this article I read from the oh, 40's I think it was, on how to be a good wife. Oh MY. It is so funny! Sme of it, yeah, I think it should be like, but some well, waaay out of date. I think a girl today would throw something at a guy who actually expected it!

                    Anyway, yes and no for me, if the values 100-200 are just as good today as they where then. I think some are outdated, but some, we could really use now. Ah well...

                    Many of my favourite writers are from that period and as much as I like them, they were elitist.
                    Same here. Yeah, I agree for the most part on that. There was definately a class system back then. Some ideas they had are really different.

                    Mass education was not available in those times and the educated people could not care less for those uneducated. The rich people were very rich and the poor people very poor, governments were totalitarian regimes who made war on a whim, actually we haven't progressed much since then.
                    That is very true. I think those days would have been very tough to live in, you happened to be of the poor set. And, a girl most of the time, was not educated as a boy was. Not many options were available to girls then. Yes, some things are just better left in the past. I think governments all over are never gonna learn to talk first and solve instead of fight. Sigh.

                    Pining for the values gone will not bring them back, nothing will, they are outdated and useless for our times.
                    No, you're right, pining for them won't bring them back. But, I think many of them are not outdated and useless for our times. If people tried harder to be more polite and remember the old values, maybe things would clean up just a little. Haha... Wishful thinking though. Ah well...

                    Kaoru

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Kaoru
                      I don't see such things as opening a door for a girl/lady, standing when a lady enters a room or raising a hat to them or other such pleasentries as chauvinistic or as special priviledges
                      The thing was that in those times women were considered glorified poodles. You had them made up pretty and you showed how good and courteous you were.
                      My Dad has told me of so-called "ladies" who have yelled at him for opening a door for them.
                      I've met them too. Only a few of them. Once I saw a woman having trouble carrying many of the most crass and tasteless clothing I've ever seen. I offer her help and I am called a sexist pig and I am "kindly" informed that she can do it alone. Three seconds later one of her newly bought clothing falls to the ground. Having no appettite for abuse I don't move. She glowers at me and asks: "Why don't you help me?" I answer "weren't you able to do it alone?", she calls me a rude **** and spits at me.

                      There was definately a class system back then.
                      There was definately a "you are poor, I am rich, that's how it should be" attitude those days

                      Wishful thinking though. Ah well...
                      Why should it stay as wishful thinking. It is up to us to make a difference. If I ever need to have children to fulfill a marriage contract I will make sure to educate them to the best of my abilities. And they will start doing kendo as soon as they can walk.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        ahh I hate politics. Especially this year! They both annoyed me. wooo go nadar.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Lloromannic
                          The thing was that in those times women were considered glorified poodles. You had them made up pretty and you showed how good and courteous you were.
                          Ahahahahaha!!! I couldn't stop laughing when I read that! Glorfied Poodles....had them made up pretty... hahahaha!! So FUNNY! Sorry, I can't help myself. I'm going to run that one by my family and friends, you know. hehehe!
                          That was priceless!! (Ok, you can tell me to shut up if you want. But it was so darned funny!)

                          I guess I am too much a girl, because whenever I see the beautful dresses from back then, I wish I could dress pretty like that just once, and see what it was like to be treated properly according to the etiquette of those days. I can't help but be curious... (Of course, minus the guy saying that girls are too stupid to understand men's affairs and that sort of thing. Trust me, I believe in the same rights and everything for girls as you do.)

                          BTW, I grew up with Poodles(I love Poodles!), and I have a new very spoiled girl poodle my Mom and Grandma just bought for me who I named Sakura Usa-hana.(さくら うさはんあ) So watch it!

                          I've met them too. Only a few of them. Once I saw a woman having trouble carrying many of the most crass and tasteless clothing I've ever seen. I offer her help and I am called a sexist pig and I am "kindly" informed that she can do it alone. Three seconds later one of her newly bought clothing falls to the ground. Having no appettite for abuse I don't move. She glowers at me and asks: "Why don't you help me?" I answer "weren't you able to do it alone?", she calls me a rude **** and spits at me.
                          Ahahaha!! That was the best story! Funny she had the nerve to ask why you weren't helping after she was so rude to you when you offered in the first place. I don't blame you for just standing there watching. Not to be mean, but it served her right! I liked your reply.

                          There was definately a "you are poor, I am rich, that's how it should be" attitude those days
                          You put that so well. Agreed!

                          Why should it stay as wishful thinking. It is up to us to make a difference.
                          That's true. I forgot about that.

                          If I ever need to have children to fulfill a marriage contract I will make sure to educate them to the best of my abilities.
                          "Need" to have children? haha, I never heard it put that way before. And fulfill a marriage contract? Do you mean you think it is a must or something? I never thought of that way before. Had to ask... Was curious! And, me too. If I get married and have kids, I want to do the same!

                          And they will start doing kendo as soon as they can walk.
                          Somehow, I think all us Kenshi must want this.

                          Kaoru

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Kaoru
                            "Need" to have children? haha, I never heard it put that way before. And fulfill a marriage contract? Do you mean you think it is a must or something? I never thought of that way before. Had to ask... Was curious! And, me too. If I get married and have kids, I want to do the same!
                            I intend to become a househusband, in oreder to do that comfortably I need to marry a rich woman, hopefully one who works full time as a lawyer or politician (first gentleman doesn't sound so shabby), but someone from a rich family is also OK. Now in the second case it is likely that the marriage will be an arranged affair, in many of those cases there are certain "conditions" to be fulfilled by the parties, some of the most common include a generous dowry and children. Sort of a company merger on a smaller scale.

                            I guess I am too much a girl, because whenever I see the beautful dresses from back then, I wish I could dress pretty like that just once, and see what it was like to be treated properly according to the etiquette of those days. I can't help but be curious... (Of course, minus the guy saying that girls are too stupid to understand men's affairs and that sort of thing. Trust me, I believe in the same rights and everything for girls as you do.)
                            Don't worry, I know what you mean. I think I am the only person in my school (no uniform) who still wears shirts, proper ones (buttons, neck, ironing, etc), shoes and boots (dress ones). Although to be fair it's been 3 years since I ran a comb through my hair.

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