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Sorry but this just ticks me off!!!

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  • Sorry but this just ticks me off!!!

    Bush Calls Human Rights Report 'Absurd'

    WASHINGTON - President Bush on Tuesday dismissed a human rights report as "absurd" for its harsh criticism of U.S. treatment of terrorist suspects at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, saying the allegations were made by prisoners "who hate America."
    I'd hate America too if I was tortured and imprisoned without trial for over 2 years.

    These incidents in Iraq stretch beyond Abu Ghraib. Civilians have submitted reports such as this and recently, Afghanistan had similar cases of prisoner abuse.

    Take the leader of the largest Sunni Muslim political group Mohsen Abdul Hamid. They stormed his house. Hog tied him and had a soldier put his foot on the guy's neck for 20 minutes while they ransacked the house( and this guy was an ex-interim Prime Minister). Confiscated money, files, a computer and detained his sons and bodyguards.

    Later they released him saying "oh, sorry...we made a mistake."


    On North Korea

    On another foreign policy issue, Bush shot back at critics who suggest his diplomatic approach to North Korea is allowing the communist regime to expand its nuclear program. "If diplomacy is the wrong approach, I guess that means military. That's how I view it as either diplomacy or military. I am for the diplomacy approach," he said.
    Yeeeeeeeeeeees...then why the invasion of Iraq? Is not War the result of the collapse of all diplomatic solutions?

    On Justice
    Bush said he expressed concerns with Russian President Vladimir Putin about legal proceedings against former oil tycoon Mikhail Khodorkovsky. Once the richest man in Russia, Khodorkovsky was convicted Tuesday of fraud and tax evasion and sentenced to nine years in prison following a trail widely denounced as politically motivated.

    "Here, you're innocent until proven guilty and it appeared to us, at least people in my administration, that it looked like he had been judged guilty prior to having a fair trial," Bush said. "We're watching the ongoing case."
    And thus we imprison thousands of terror suspects for years without trial, subjecting them to torture and humiliation...nice...freedom and democrazy.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050531/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush
    ************************************************** ****
    Arrrrgh! The man is such a hypocryte!!! He's like evil Senator Roark from Sin City where he says:

    "Power doesn't come from a gun. POWER comes outta lying and lying BIG and getting the whole damn WORLD to play ALONG with you. Once you got everyone AGREEING with what they know in their HEARTS ain't TRUE, you got them TRAPPED. YOU'RE THE BOSS"

  • #2
    I shouldn't say this, but.....

    Now that you have it off your chest about Bush, I'm waiting to hear what you have to say about the so-called "Peoples Democratic Republic of China", one of the biggest human-rights violators in the world. They don't even let their citizens have internet access to the rest of the world for fear they'll pick up "tainted information and thoughts".

    Yeah, well, it's easy to sit back in your easy chair and criticize, and in the U.S., you're free to criticize. What happens to those people in China who criticize the government? Same for the Peoples Democratic Republic of Korea, who kidnaps people from the South to do propaganda for them.

    I guess if I wanted to, I could find fault with every government and every country, and every person on this earth. Would it make me better? It's good that you put this in the flames forum, because it sure doesn't have a thing to do with kendo.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by joekc6nlx
      Now that you have it off your chest about Bush, I'm waiting to hear what you have to say about the so-called "Peoples Democratic Republic of China", one of the biggest human-rights violators in the world. They don't even let their citizens have internet access to the rest of the world for fear they'll pick up "tainted information and thoughts".

      Yeah, well, it's easy to sit back in your easy chair and criticize, and in the U.S., you're free to criticize. What happens to those people in China who criticize the government? Same for the Peoples Democratic Republic of Korea, who kidnaps people from the South to do propaganda for them.

      I guess if I wanted to, I could find fault with every government and every country, and every person on this earth. Would it make me better? It's good that you put this in the flames forum, because it sure doesn't have a thing to do with kendo.

      Amen Joe...last time I checked this was Kendo World. Not Political World. Its nice to have open discussions here, but lets keep the politics and religion off these boards. IMHO all it does is cause fights.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by joekc6nlx
        Now that you have it off your chest about Bush, I'm waiting to hear what you have to say about the so-called "Peoples Democratic Republic of China", one of the biggest human-rights violators in the world. They don't even let their citizens have internet access to the rest of the world for fear they'll pick up "tainted information and thoughts".

        Yeah, well, it's easy to sit back in your easy chair and criticize, and in the U.S., you're free to criticize. What happens to those people in China who criticize the government? Same for the Peoples Democratic Republic of Korea, who kidnaps people from the South to do propaganda for them.

        I guess if I wanted to, I could find fault with every government and every country, and every person on this earth. Would it make me better? It's good that you put this in the flames forum, because it sure doesn't have a thing to do with kendo.
        I for myself have never understood how the fault of one nation makes it legal for another country to act like bastard... I mean pointing and saying "they did it first, and worse!" is quite childish.
        And since the US is the de-facto only superpower today you will just have to deal with the fact that the world is looking...

        Comment


        • #5
          myeah, I'm not too sure what reactions you're gonna get here, and I'm not sure if this is the right forum for such an arguement.
          I do however, believe that situations like Abu Ghraib have nothing to do with political stance, nowone in their right mind could justify these situations.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hmm.... The only thing I have to say about this "Prisoner abuse" thing is this. These guys get fed 3 times a day, given shelter, given clothes, kept warm, given copies of the Koran (sp).... and while there may have been some prisoner abuse (aside from the dumbasses stacking prisioners up). The US are the bad guys.....

            How about Nick Berg...how about anyone who wants to comment on how the US is so bad take a look at the terrorists who are cutting peoples heads off, kidnapping....

            Just remember that...people who want to forget about that and forget about what happend on 9-11 make me sick.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by joekc6nlx
              They don't even let their citizens have internet access to the rest of the world for fear they'll pick up "tainted information and thoughts".
              Where did you hear this? I'm chatting to a mate of mine in Shanghai right now on MSN. Yes, she's Shanghainese. Yes, she's a Chinese citizen.

              China does monitor internet traffic but so does Singapore, who will fine you and send you to jail for downloading porn. Tho' China tries to moniter the internet they realise they can't 100% monitor it.

              A client of mine, from Beijing, studied in the US. She likes Americans and loves America but at the same time she's very dedicated to her homeland. She works in Beijing now and as far as I can see isn't in jail for being exposed to the "taint' of the west.

              ************************************************** *******
              I agree that Tianamen was horrible but at the same time I also think that democrasy needs to be nurtured not dumped on the population. China will see a change in its politics...but it takes time.

              China has its need for social reform. That is a matter of internal action. The US had its own civil rights violations on the road to democrasy.

              The thing here that cheesed me off is Bush's hypocrisy. Does China go around the world invading a nation for 'human rights' then tortures people? Does anyone else go around telling other nation's that what they do in court is wrong and at the same time detain people without trial.

              How about telling the world about the dangers of lifting China's arms trade ban. Why because it will destabilize the region. Right, and then he goes and sells a bunch of jet fighters to Pakistan who isn't the best of friends with its neighbor India. And when India complains of the arms imbalance he says, "oh, you can buy some too."

              Here's another great one...Bush says countries need to be globalized. they need to free their markets to outside competition. But when China starts producing cheaper textiles that starts to hurt the US industries he puts a tariff on chinese textiles. And its not just with China, its Australia and the beef and wheat industry...he placed a tariff on that too because US farmers were being put out of business. etc etc

              As I said...I don't hate Americans or America. I just hate hypocrites.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by JHusch
                Hmm.... The only thing I have to say about this "Prisoner abuse" thing is this. These guys get fed 3 times a day, given shelter, given clothes, kept warm, given copies of the Koran (sp).... and while there may have been some prisoner abuse (aside from the dumbasses stacking prisioners up). The US are the bad guys.....
                'Some' prisoner abuse? Way to go on marginalizing that! 'Some' women get raped too, but most don't, so why should we care?

                Being fed, getting shelter&clothes and being warm is part of your human rights, but they're not ALL your human rights.

                Originally posted by JHusch
                How about Nick Berg...how about anyone who wants to comment on how the US is so bad take a look at the terrorists who are cutting peoples heads off, kidnapping....
                Kidnapping...? Like locking people up for years without charging them...? If you want to go after terrorists only to be one yourself, I'd rather do nothing at all.

                Originally posted by JHusch
                Just remember that...people who want to forget about that and forget about what happend on 9-11 make me sick.
                People who blatantly ignore the rights of their fellow human beings make me sick. Wait, let me be more precise, you make me sick. Even though I think that you're not worth to be called a human, you still have your human rights, and I will not lock you up without charging you even if I could.

                Pot... kettle... black... I hope you get me point. I don't want to generalize but you're part of that group of stereotypical narrow-minded Americans that the whole world dislikes (to avoid using the word 'hates').

                Comment


                • #9
                  [QUOTE=JHusch]Hmm.... The only thing I have to say about this "Prisoner abuse" thing is this. These guys get fed 3 times a day, given shelter, given clothes, kept warm, given copies of the Koran (sp).... and while there may have been some prisoner abuse (aside from the dumbasses stacking prisioners up). The US are the bad guys.....
                  [\QUOTE]
                  Er...that sounds like the crap the Nazis tried to sell about Auchwitz. Sending out postcards showing smiling prisoners eating full meals having nice beds etc etc

                  The Pentagon has sanctioned certain methods to obtain information. This includes sleep deprivation, stress positions etc. In other words torture is used.

                  "Some prisoner abuse"? Hello, a civilian shot and then thrown off a bridge by US troops. Or cases now being addressed in Afghanistan. etc etc is not "some" prisoner abuse.

                  As for the US being bad guys. When you base a war on morality and humanity, and you abuse this edict of conduct you are held to higher accord.

                  A thief can spend a lifetime doing dirty deeds and be exonorated with just one good deed. A King can spend a lifetime in noble achievement but just one wrong act will damn him for eternity. This is because everyone expects nothing good from a thief but they expect the world from a King.


                  How about Nick Berg...how about anyone who wants to comment on how the US is so bad take a look at the terrorists who are cutting peoples heads off, kidnapping....
                  Kill a man. Kill 10 men. You are still a murderer.

                  As H20 said its childish to point at another when you do wrong and say they are worse.

                  Terrorists are expected to be scum. The US troops were expected to be liberators.

                  Just remember that...people who want to forget about that and forget about what happend on 9-11 make me sick.
                  You know...the world wept for the US after 9-11.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JHusch
                    Hmm.... The only thing I have to say about this "Prisoner abuse" thing is this. These guys get fed 3 times a day, given shelter, given clothes, kept warm, given copies of the Koran (sp).... and while there may have been some prisoner abuse (aside from the dumbasses stacking prisioners up). The US are the bad guys.....
                    Well, the problem is not how they are treated. I believe the problem is that there are a lot of people sitting there who still have not been prosecuted or told why the f-ck they got there in the first place.

                    How about Nick Berg...how about anyone who wants to comment on how the US is so bad take a look at the terrorists who are cutting peoples heads off, kidnapping....
                    See my last post about one evil deed not making another evil deed legal.

                    Just remember that...people who want to forget about that and forget about what happend on 9-11 make me sick.
                    People who don't try to understand WHY that shit happen make me worried... People are not born to be terrorists. They become terrorists for a reason. Does that make it right? No ofcourse not, but it's worth to think about. I mean, if people walk the other way when I enter a room, perhaps I should sit down and check if I smell bad, and use a deoderant, instead of shooting those evil bastards for not looking at me.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Berugijin
                      'Some' prisoner abuse? Way to go on marginalizing that! 'Some' women get raped too, but most don't, so why should we care?

                      Being fed, getting shelter&clothes and being warm is part of your human rights, but they're not ALL your human rights.



                      Kidnapping...? Like locking people up for years without charging them...? If you want to go after terrorists only to be one yourself, I'd rather do nothing at all.



                      People who blatantly ignore the rights of their fellow human beings make me sick. Wait, let me be more precise, you make me sick. Even though I think that you're not worth to be called a human, you still have your human rights, and I will not lock you up without charging you even if I could.

                      Pot... kettle... black... I hope you get me point. I don't want to generalize but you're part of that group of stereotypical narrow-minded Americans that the whole world dislikes (to avoid using the word 'hates').

                      Glad you missed the entire point of the post. Also glad I make you sick.... whatever...

                      Where are the human rights when our servicemen and woman are killed like Nick Berg. What about the contractors when they get killed? Bet you dont have a answer for that since you pretty much sidesteped that enitre arguement.

                      And I am far from narrow minded, I know the difference between right and wrong. And I am NOT saying that what has happened in Iraq with the treatment of POW's has been great, but it is FAR better then how our POW's are treated.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JHusch
                        Glad you missed the entire point of the post. Also glad I make you sick.... whatever...
                        I'm not glad YOU missed the entire point of my post and those two others quoting your original post...

                        Originally posted by JHusch
                        Where are the human rights when our servicemen and woman are killed like Nick Berg. What about the contractors when they get killed? Bet you dont have a answer for that since you pretty much sidesteped that enitre arguement.
                        There is no argument. If you don't see how wrong you are than I really pitty you and those around you. Now enough with the ad hominem attacks. To put it in one little line you can comprehend: violating terrorists human rights makes you just as bad as them.

                        Originally posted by JHusch
                        And I am far from narrow minded, I know the difference between right and wrong. And I am NOT saying that what has happened in Iraq with the treatment of POW's has been great, but it is FAR better then how our POW's are treated.
                        You don't know the difference between right or wrong... An eye for an eye eh? It doesn't matter how the treatment of POW's is 'far better', the truth is that it's not good enough, and that's all that matters.

                        After all, why should you behave human when others don't?

                        Ladies and gentleman, that's the excuse of JHusch and the American goverment to simply give up on their 'humanity' and all those years of civilization.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          As prisoners of war, they do not have to be prosecuted. They are prisoners of war, they are incarcerated under the terms of the Geneva Convention. They are given food, water, shelter, access to religious leaders and materials. If they were criminals, then they would be prosecuted under the 4th Amendment of the United States Constitution, the same as the citizens of the United States are tried for criminal cases. As we used to say in the Navy, you don't have the "big picture", you only see your little area of it.

                          As for China invading another country???? Maybe you would like to ask the Dalai Lama about what China has done to his country? Or China's continual claim that Taiwan is not a separate country, for which reason Taiwan was removed from the U.N. Security Council and the PRC was placed there.

                          I'm not talking about downloading internet porn, that's irrelevant. The article about China restricting internet access to the outside world was from the Associated Press. Granted, they don't always have the right facts, just like Newsweek, but they're one hell of a lot more objective than Al-Jezeerah, TASS/PRAVDA, and a slew of other so-called "news agencies".

                          You can continue to point fingers at what you call hypocrites, and I really don't much care if you criticize the President of this country, or JHusch, or me. I criticize lots of politicians, but that doesn't mean they're wrong and I'm right. They aren't perfect, we aren't perfect, you aren't perfect. The only thing that we can do is keep working toward perfection. Hmmm, seems to me I've read that somewhere, maybe in one of my kendo books...........
                          Last edited by joekc6nlx; 1st June 2005, 03:28 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by h2o
                            Well, the problem is not how they are treated. I believe the problem is that there are a lot of people sitting there who still have not been prosecuted or told why the f-ck they got there in the first place.


                            See my last post about one evil deed not making another evil deed legal.


                            People who don't try to understand WHY that shit happen make me worried... People are not born to be terrorists. They become terrorists for a reason. Does that make it right? No ofcourse not, but it's worth to think about. I mean, if people walk the other way when I enter a room, perhaps I should sit down and check if I smell bad, and use a deoderant, instead of shooting those evil bastards for not looking at me.
                            It was not my intent to say One Evil deed makes another legal. The intent was to say that there is a lower standard that is accepted on what the terrorists are doing and that is wrong.

                            I kinda understand what you are saying in your last paragraph. Yes we should try and findout what makes things happen. But the sad thing is that most of these terrorists are taught to hate from a early age, they are only told about the Evils of America and the free world without ever discovering what is and what is not true on their own.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by joekc6nlx
                              I'm not talking about downloading internet porn, that's irrelevant. The article about China restricting internet access to the outside world was from the Associated Press. Granted, they don't always have the right facts, just like Newsweek, but they're one hell of a lot more objective than Al-Jezeerah, TASS/PRAVDA, and a slew of other so-called "news agencies".
                              For your information, Al-Jazeerah is actually quite objective, have you ever watched it? In fact it's being criticized in Muslim countries for giving too much airtime to Israelis... The Pravda ("the truth") was once indeed full of communist propaganda, but that was a LONG time ago. Today it's an ordinary quality newspaper.

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