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  • What would you do ????

    I watched one of Law and Order episode and this girl was raped in New York public subway in front of other passanger. Most of those passangers were scared and did nothing until the rape was over. Even though it is TV episode, I was shocked that this can actually be happen to me too. What would you do if you were one of those passangers in the subway and have shinai or bokken with you ?

    1) do nothing... You will feel like shit for the rest of your life...
    2) Give him a warning and starts beat him with bokken... Risk of getting hurt..
    2) Hit his head with bokken until he pass out or die... Risk of being getting hurt or sued.. Less chance to get hurt, stopping crime, but you will still feel guilty of killing some asshole..

    Any lawyers out there, what will happen if it was case three ?? Is there chance that you will get charged with murder ??

  • #2
    Originally posted by rainmaker

    1) do nothing... You will feel like shit for the rest of your life...
    2) Give him a warning and starts beat him with bokken... Risk of getting hurt..
    2) Hit his head with bokken until he pass out or die... Risk of being getting hurt or sued.. Less chance to get hurt, stopping crime, but you will still feel guilty of killing some asshole..

    Any lawyers out there, what will happen if it was case three ?? Is there chance that you will get charged with murder ??
    It will feel bad to have done nothing. But in most countries, doing nothing may be the best option.

    1) ditto

    2) risk getting hurt.

    Also risk getting charged by the police for assault & battery (up to 3-5 years in many jurisdictions), assault with deadly weapon (up to 15 years or more in many jurisdictions), and attempted murder (up to a life sentence) if the prosecutor in question wants to make an example out of you in order to gain publicity and get a judgeship quicker.

    Even if you get sympathy from the jury/judge and gets off the charges, you would have still spent around 2 years in jail awaiting trial. Bail may sound easy, but could be *very* significant for the more serious charges.

    Just because you are suppose to be the "hero" does not save you from prosecution. Law frowns upon vigilantes. Cops use to, and still shoot at batman.

    There is also the matter of the civil complaint that the evildoer may lodge against you. He might very well clean you out with one of those.

    3) Ditto.

    If the guy dies you will get charged with murder, but it may get reduced to manslaughter, etc, if you play your cards right. You are still not getting out within the decade. Heck, you might even run into the guy's homies in prison, then it's on like donkey kong and you won't even have a bokken.

    Good luck on getting bail as a murder suspect.

    See above re: civil complaint. Funny enough, a dead person, in some jurisdictions, is worth less in court than a permanently disable person so you might get off a little easier.

    4) VERY IMPORTANT: Don't forget to add legal fees of around USD$300-500 an hour on top of everything above if you want good legal advice. There is NO "no-win, no-fee" for criminal matters.

    Comment


    • #3
      Rainmaker,

      I think common sense would tell you to attempt to stop the crime or assist the victim in some way, however, by using your bokken, you yourself may be commiting an assault (which is an illegal act). Besides which, using the bokken in the crowded space of a subway would be foolish - it will hinder you rather than help, I think.

      Most states (including New York: N.Y. Pub. Health Law 3000-a(McKinney 2000)AED User Immunity, N.Y. Pub. Health Law 3000-b(McKinney 2000)(AED Def.) and N.Y. Pub. Health Law 3013 (McKinney 2000)(Gen. Stat.) have good samaritan laws which protect you when you render medical assistance to those in need. While these laws may not directly protect you in the case you mentioned, the spirit of the law certainly might apply.

      I personally would not rely on the bokken, but rather first attempt to call 911 - if I can get reception in the subway - and then immediately attempt to grapple the assailant. However, any persons response must be crrefully measured - too little force and you may get yourself or the victim injured further and too much force and you will be prosecuted for assault.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by rainmaker
        Even though it is TV episode, I was shocked that this can actually be happen to me too.
        Nobody is going to rape you , buddy. Don't get too much with yourself...
        YOu ain't pretty after all....-_-

        Comment


        • #5
          My my my Issac... so I guess you are pretty boy ???


          Originally posted by ISSAC RU
          Nobody is going to rape you , buddy. Don't get too much with yourself...
          YOu ain't pretty after all....-_-

          Comment


          • #6
            I know about Samaritan law.. But I was wondering about such situation. I will probably walk away such situation. It doesn't have to be rape. It can be assault, robbery or something else. All you can do is scream and call the cop... Wait until such assault is over. How frustrating !! I guess it is time for Batman..



            Originally posted by KevinF
            Rainmaker,

            I think common sense would tell you to attempt to stop the crime or assist the victim in some way, however, by using your bokken, you yourself may be commiting an assault (which is an illegal act). Besides which, using the bokken in the crowded space of a subway would be foolish - it will hinder you rather than help, I think.

            Most states (including New York: N.Y. Pub. Health Law 3000-a(McKinney 2000)AED User Immunity, N.Y. Pub. Health Law 3000-b(McKinney 2000)(AED Def.) and N.Y. Pub. Health Law 3013 (McKinney 2000)(Gen. Stat.) have good samaritan laws which protect you when you render medical assistance to those in need. While these laws may not directly protect you in the case you mentioned, the spirit of the law certainly might apply.

            I personally would not rely on the bokken, but rather first attempt to call 911 - if I can get reception in the subway - and then immediately attempt to grapple the assailant. However, any persons response must be crrefully measured - too little force and you may get yourself or the victim injured further and too much force and you will be prosecuted for assault.

            Comment


            • #7
              The Wonderful World of Torts...

              Originally posted by rainmaker
              1) do nothing... You will feel like shit for the rest of your life...2) Give him a warning and starts beat him with bokken... Risk of getting hurt..3) Hit his head with bokken until he pass out or die... Risk of being getting hurt or sued.. Less chance to get hurt, stopping crime, but you will still feel guilty...what will happen if it was case three ?? Is there chance that you will get charged with murder ??
              I like how Kanyil-san analyzed the question...Cheers to ya, Kanyil-san! I just wanted to add a few things that are specifically New York law. Each state is a bit different and New York may still be a bit behind in the evolution of its legal system.

              You know the idea of self defense, so of course the girl being attacked has the right to defend herself by using reasonable force to protect herself. To use deadly force, there must be danger of serious injury or threat of life. It seems reasonable that the girl being attacked could use a bokken or shinai in such a case as you described because of the threat of serious bodily harm. New York is still a state that requires that when using deadly force, the person has an obligation to retreat is such a retreat is safe. There are some situations where retreat is not required, such as burglary and arson or in one's own house. Your "Law and Order" scenario seems that retreat would not be possible, or even necessary. So, therefore the girl being attacked could beat the guy with a weapon if she wanted even if it ended with the death of the perpetrator.

              So, here is the catch. After a infamous death of a woman being killed by her husband while others sat and ignored it, laws were rewritten where a third party could also assert the same self defense argument as the person being attacked as long as the third party honestly believed the person was in trouble. Legislature wanted the public to help keep their environment safe. Self Defense or Defense of a Third Party. So, if you were to assist the girl in the subway, then you will have the same argument as I have written above so long as the girl was really in trouble, then your use of a deadly weapon could be justified. If they were just making out, then you would be busted HARD just as Kanyil-san has written. You would still be held to the standard of using reasonable force and if deadly force, then the retreat requirement would also apply to you.

              The short version is that if you see someone in trouble, you can assist with their defense but if you are wrong and you help assist in an assult, then you will be treated as a criminal. Just make 100% sure that the person is in trouble (i.e. cries for help) then you can use the force reasonable for that situation.

              Hey, just wanted to throw in my 2 pence.....

              Cheers!!!!!!!!!!

              Alex

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Alex_McGrady
                So, here is the catch. After a infamous death of a woman being killed by her husband while others sat and ignored it, laws were rewritten where a third party could also assert the same self defense argument as the person being attacked as long as the third party honestly believed the person was in trouble. Legislature wanted the public to help keep their environment safe. Self Defense or Defense of a Third Party. So, if you were to assist the girl in the subway, then you will have the same argument as I have written above so long as the girl was really in trouble, then your use of a deadly weapon could be justified. If they were just making out, then you would be busted HARD just as Kanyil-san has written. You would still be held to the standard of using reasonable force and if deadly force, then the retreat requirement would also apply to you.

                I believe that this is also the law here in the UK. ( I think thats what my old law teacher told me, shortly before I was kicked out of the class for asking too many irrelivant 'what if' questions)

                Personally if I were in this situation, I would leave the bokken (but not out of reach) and tell the guy to stop, or I will kick the shit out of him. If he pulls a flick knife, grab the bokken. If not, kick his arse / or get you arse kicked for a good cause, the commotion would at least stop the attacker for long enough to attract enough attention.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Can't you just pull the emergency handle thingy and make the whole train stop?

                  New York subway is dangerous - everybody knows.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Depends on where you are. In Malaysia the law is very much on your side so if you shot or killed a rapist/robber its kudos for you.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Sadly, such things already happened in real life too...

                      in China,
                      http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117...-23109,00.html


                      New York..
                      http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_k.../3.html?sect=2

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by rainmaker
                        My my my Issac... so I guess you are pretty boy ???
                        Hes pretty enough to drop the soap a few times a day, at least thats what my big gay mate Bubba tells me. He also says that Issac is "finger lickin' good", whatever that means...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          no good person would ever stand there and see someone getting raped....if one person steps in, others prob. will help out too. Fear? Thats absurd, get over it and help em out! Thats at least what i think....

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            i grew up in nyc back in 80s. people will walk by and will not 'notice' anything that's none of their business. maybe it has changed in last 20 yrs or so, but back then it used to be normal to hear stories such as this all the time. as for cops back in nyc in 80s? hell, they were never around when you needed them. i know of few store owners who got shot, called the cops.. cops didn't arrive until 30min to 1hr later.

                            knew this indian fella who owned a little shop down the street.. a guy walked in, shot the owner.. walked out in a daylight. the guy called the 911 on his own after the robber walked out. cops and EMS didn't come for 30 min, and the hospital was only 5 min drive from there and the police station was less than 15 min away. go figure.

                            best thing to do in such situation is to kick the crap out of the guy as quickly and hard as possible (and multiple times if necessary) on the head. hope he doesn't die. and walk away. believe it or not, if it was in nyc back in 80s, no one will remember you as the person who kick the crap out that raper like people didn't 'notice' that girl getting raped. no one wants to get involved in anything back then

                            pete

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rainmaker
                              I watched one of Law and Order episode and this girl was raped in New York public subway in front of other passanger. Most of those passangers were scared and did nothing until the rape was over. Even though it is TV episode, I was shocked that this can actually be happen to me too. What would you do if you were one of those passangers in the subway and have shinai or bokken with you ?

                              1) do nothing... You will feel like shit for the rest of your life...
                              2) Give him a warning and starts beat him with bokken... Risk of getting hurt..
                              2) Hit his head with bokken until he pass out or die... Risk of being getting hurt or sued.. Less chance to get hurt, stopping crime, but you will still feel guilty of killing some asshole..

                              Any lawyers out there, what will happen if it was case three ?? Is there chance that you will get charged with murder ??
                              There was also real cases a few months back in South Africa the bus drivers were rapping girls who wear short skirts. and people did absolutely nothing because the bus drivers said the girls temp them. But then, that's Africa, a lot of things don't make sense there sometimes.

                              As for the bokken/Shinai, do we really have to hit them multiple times to knock them out? Come on, just do a really good shomen on him he'll sleep like a baby That, you can avoid being charge for almost everything

                              Comment

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