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SHINAI: Dobari is "Fat body" ... What is KOTO?

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  • SHINAI: Dobari is "Fat body" ... What is KOTO?

    Hi guys!!!
    We know Dobari shinai is a "fat body" shinai thinner tip for faster koteuchi...what is koto? and what is the use? thanks

  • #2
    Originally posted by Kaisei
    Hi guys!!!
    We know Dobari shinai is a "fat body" shinai thinner tip for faster koteuchi...what is koto? and what is the use? thanks
    Thinner toward the tsuka, weight more balanced forward. Difficult to master, not recommended for beginners.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Paikea
      Thinner toward the tsuka, weight more balanced forward. Difficult to master, not recommended for beginners.
      Aside from a little extra strain in the arms, I don't see why it would be difficult. Sure, it's harder to get nidan waza working fast, but if you practice with a koto shinai, and use a dobari at shiai, shouldn't it help make your cuts faster?
      I prefer the balance of a koto shinai, and no longer use dobari at all. Since I am still a beginner, should I not be doing this?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by tattooedasshole
        Aside from a little extra strain in the arms, I don't see why it would be difficult. Sure, it's harder to get nidan waza working fast, but if you practice with a koto shinai, and use a dobari at shiai, shouldn't it help make your cuts faster?
        I prefer the balance of a koto shinai, and no longer use dobari at all. Since I am still a beginner, should I not be doing this?
        I won't pretend to know whether or not you should use it, I do know one person at our dojo who does, but he's nidan. Personally, I don't like to switch shinai types between keiko and shiai (but I suck at shiai so maybe I should). I based my opinion on that of Arnold Matsuda-sensei who wrote this on the subject. They do seem to pack a better wallop than a dobari does (at least, they feel that way), and for a beginner learning the difference between a nice men or kote and a split log, I'd prefer to get hit with the lighter tip.

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        • #5
          Matsuda sensei's post makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the link. I acctually have the opposite problem though, as i find most tsuka too small for my hands. I also agree with your position on biginners. We all start out like we're trying to cut down a tree, and it's really not fun to be on the recieving end (I still have bruises from our newest group).
          I don't think I'll be changing, but it does give me something to think about.

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          • #6
            If it's heavier at the tip, would koto make a louder pop during a good men-uchi upon impact?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Omnis
              If it's heavier at the tip, would koto make a louder pop during a good men-uchi upon impact?
              It definitely seems to.

              Comment


              • #8
                Lol... I just realized something...

                Imagine Shiai using one of these: http://elm.fukuyama.hiroshima-u.ac.jp/life5/koto.jpg

                Comment


                • #9
                  I find the dobari feels fat and heavy compared to chokuto.

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                  • #10
                    I agree with you...but not all of the dobari, but quite a few. I've tried a couple of koto, and in general I like their balance. The lack in speed is small, imo. Soem dobari I just can't use, they feel stiff and hard on the left hand.

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                    • #11
                      I suppose I use dobari, not sure if I've ever tried a chokuto shinai. I wonder what the Hasegawa carbon shinai counts as? Mutant? Feak? F***ed up? Although e-bogu now has a Dobari Hasegawa carbon as well now... I would suggest trying the different styles at a tournament when a vendor shows up to see what you like.

                      Originally posted by Paikea
                      Personally, I don't like to switch shinai types between keiko and shiai (but I suck at shiai so maybe I should).
                      I use my carbon for suburi, kirikaeshi, and kihon, and switch to bamboo for yakusoku geiko and jigeiko. Helps save my bamboo shinais this way. I definitely feel a difference though, so I switch to bamboo only and no carbon for a couple of weeks before tournaments.

                      Originally posted by Omnis
                      Lol... I just realized something...

                      Imagine Shiai using one of these: http://elm.fukuyama.hiroshima-u.ac.jp/life5/koto.jpg
                      lol, only in a Chinese kung fu novel/film. Which happens quite often actually...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I have a couple of old carbon shinai and one of them is sort of chokuto style, pretty straight throughout (very little bulge after tsuba). I finally broke the darn thing on a men shot a year or so ago. When I showed it to Kataoka Sensei he said it was just as well, if I used it in Japan I would not make many friends because it is almost solid. I never really liked it because it sort of gave me "tennis elbow".

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ignatz
                          I have a couple of old carbon shinai and one of them is sort of chokuto style, pretty straight throughout (very little bulge after tsuba). I finally broke the darn thing on a men shot a year or so ago. When I showed it to Kataoka Sensei he said it was just as well, if I used it in Japan I would not make many friends because it is almost solid. I never really liked it because it sort of gave me "tennis elbow".
                          Ahehehe yeah try that kind of swinging using this http://elm.fukuyama.hiroshima-u.ac.jp/life5/koto.jpg and I wouldnt want to play motodatchi to you either ahehehehehe

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            A friend told me about a BIO shinai .... from chiba bogu...looks like a normal shinai but it "treated" with resin...feels little bit heavier that usual .. might be the resin....
                            http://www.chibabogu.com/catalog/pro...roducts_id=154
                            Shinai - Bio Shinai (Dobari)
                            [S-830]


                            This is a specially treated shinai, in which much of the water in the cellular spaces of the bamboo has been displaced, and replaced with a hard resin. Therefore the shinai is much less susceptible to changes in humidity. This shinai is especially well-suited to dry environments which normally render un-treated shinai brittle and easily broken.
                            A dobari-type shinai, with a fat mid-section, the center of gravity is back toward the middle-portion and tsuka, giving the shinai a very light tip.
                            Very sturdy, these are a premium shinai, the strongest bamboo shinai available, recommended for dry climates, and heavy practice schedules.
                            Built with premium quality tsuka-gawa, the handle portion, and all leather fittings according to current IKF rules.
                            Plastic tsuba and elastic tsuba-dome included.
                            Price of one shinai JPY 10,800, sold in boxes of 3 shinai for JPY 32,400.


                            http://www.chibabogu.com/catalog/pro...roducts_id=159
                            Shinai - Bio Shinai (Koto)
                            [S-850]


                            This is a specially treated shinai, in which much of the water in the cellular spaces of the bamboo has been displaced, and replaced with a hard resin. Therefore the shinai is much less susceptible to changes in humidity. This shinai is especially well-suited to dry environments which normally render un-treated shinai brittle and easily broken.
                            A koto-type, or "old-sword" shinai, the this shinai has a more straight, cylindrical shape than dobari, or conventional shinai. It is of the style of shinai first used in kendo.
                            Very sturdy, these are a premium shinai, the strongest bamboo shinai available, recommended for dry climates, and heavy practice schedules.
                            Built with premium quality tsuka-gawa, the handle portion, and all leather fittings according to current IKF rules.
                            Plastic tsuba and elastic tsuba-dome included.
                            Price of one shinai JPY 12,500, sold in boxes of 3 shinai for JPY 37,500.


                            i think this also answers my question about the diffrence about the 2 kinds ...nice description about the diffrences

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by tattooedasshole
                              Matsuda sensei's post makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the link. I acctually have the opposite problem though, as i find most tsuka too small for my hands. I also agree with your position on biginners. We all start out like we're trying to cut down a tree, and it's really not fun to be on the recieving end (I still have bruises from our newest group).
                              I don't think I'll be changing, but it does give me something to think about.
                              I like the kunimasa shinai that e-Bogu sells, it's pricey, but the one I have has lasted a year and a half and is only now just about ready to be retired. They have a nice, fat tsuka and are quite meaty.

                              We had our "newbie night" last night, where the folks in the latest beginners class get to start working with motodachi for the first time. Bad night to forget the kote pad, and my neck is sore...

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