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  • question about shinai

    Hi everyone!I have one question.Is tehere any carbon shinai except the "Hasegawa".What is the best carbon shinai?Because "Hasegawa" doesn't have a good construction

  • #2
    Hi Don,

    no there are no other carbon shinai apart from Hasegawa. I am very interested to hear why you think think that Hasegawa is no good.

    By the way, I intend to go and interview the president of the Hasegawa company for an article for the 3rd issue of Kendo World.

    I am interested to know what people think of Hasegawa shinai.



    • #3
      I find the Carbon Shinai to be sort of floppy and not at all as firm as Take Shinai.
      I have one standard CF and one Heavy Dobari (555g). The latter is less floppy due to its greater circumference.


      • #4
        Alex most the people in my opinion doesn't like the "hasegawa"
        they prefere the good old bamboo shinai.


        • #5
          I agree with don_lubo. There is difference between a hasegawa and a bamboo shinai. I have both and I think that the balance of a bamboo is much better, the cut will be faster and stronger.



          • #6
            Hi folks,

            Although I cannot afford a carbon one yet, it's still interesting to know about it. Keep up with the technology.

            I want to add another question. Apart from the manufacturing country (Japan>Korea>Taiwan>China, etc.), what constitute the quality of a shinai? I heard of the word "balance" a few times. Can someone explain more...?

            Thank you with bowing _\O/_


            • #7
              Hi Mingshi,

              I write down my experience with these questions.
              I experienced that the center of gravity differs in the case of the shinais and this gives that balance feeling difference. This is one of my "problem" with my hasegawa, that has not so good balance. The other thing which I experienced that the diameter of the tsuka is a little bit larger in the case of carbon shinai and the grasp is not so good . I am interrested that what other hasegawa owners think in this question.
              I saw so that the quality of a shinai depends on the quality of the bamboo stick ,which from the shinai is made, and on quality of that small leather parts( tsuka gawa, saki gawa...). Others must be better informed.


              • #8
                Originally posted by Alex
                I am interested to know what people think of Hasegawa shinai.
                Alex> I have the Hasegawa CF-39M - the base model, I believe. In comparison to a traditional shinai:

                it has/will last ages without breakage.

                it is more flexible which you can definitely feel in your strike. the bend test (tsuka on the wall, sakigawa on the floor 20 degree angle, and push with roughly even force just below the tsuka)
                next to my regular shinai gives it about 2-3 times more bow.

                it does tend to 'clack' and sound loosely tied no matter how tight I tie the nakayui.

                conclusion: hasegawa shinai = regular keiko. traditional shinai = shiai & gradings

                Originally posted by mingshi
                I want to add another question. Apart from the manufacturing country (Japan>Korea>Taiwan>China, etc.), what constitute the quality of a shinai? I heard of the word "balance" a few times. Can someone explain more...?
                mingshi> at the most extreme sort of balance difference, you have regular shinai, and doburi shinai.

                doburi shinai have a fatter mid-body and thinner monouchi than regular shinai - thus the weight distribution is closer to your hands which theoretically makes a shinai easier to weild by taking all that nasty weight away from the outer extremities.

                I think in regular shinai the general shape is unchanged, but the weight distribution/balance is tipped towards either end by the thickness of the take at any given point on your shinai

                For example, I took apart my japanese shinai and saw that the tsuka end of it had virtually no 'hole' at the end so I could look down the barrel, so to speak.

                my first shinai on the other hand I could probably have fit my pinky finger into the end of it.

                Hope this helps.


                • #9
                  A little bit off thread but most of these bamboo shinai are not Japanese anyway. Neither is the bogu. It is said that Japanese bamboo is far more pliable and will not dry out so quickly. So if you can get a Japanese one its better.

                  As I mentioned earlier doesnt anyone spare a thought for the person on the receiving end?

                  Hyakutake Colin


                  • #10

                    I've heard stories that most shinai and bogu are not really japanese made. They just produce it on korea or china and take it to japan to stamp that cute little label on them, but do you mean it's for real?

                    It seems that only 'madake' bamboo shinai and tezashi bogu are completely japanese, is it so?

                    Alex Polli


                    • #11
                      Hi all,

                      I am working and living at Shanghai. There are a lot of manufacturing factories here making all kinds of product including kendo related products. People from Japan , Korea and Taiwan set up their factories here for the production of martial art product. The consumption of kendo product is very very low here in China. So you can say they export everything to countries worldwide.

                      However , it's the philosophy of the owner of the factory which determine the quality of products. It's the boss who determine whether their worker should be well-trained for the skill of making bougu or not. It's the boss who determine whether they should have a strict Quality Control Policy. And the same to the choosing of the raw material.

                      IBM , Compaq & HP set up their factory here. But they will say it's made in china when they put the product in the market.

                      Here're my opinion in short :
                      1. Lying to people who buy product from them is absolutely
                      wrong (say "made in Japan " but actually from china).
                      2. It's the management people of the factory who determine the
                      quality of product. Not country
                      3. Even the product is final-assembled in Japan. Some or even
                      most parts may came from other country such as china.


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Hyaku
                        As I mentioned earlier doesnt anyone spare a thought for the person on the receiving end?
                        Hyaku> I've had no complaints from my training partners... I'm told that the force of my strikes are roughly the same if I'm using the hasegawa or traditional shinai.


                        • #13

                          I picked up my first one in 88 (a CF-39 of that vintage), and finally broke it over someone's head in 99.

                          Two years ago when we stayed at your place and watched the Kyoto takai, I went up to the Hasegawa people at their stand, and told them how wonderful I though their product was. When I told them how many years I got out of it, their response was, "sou iwareru to komarimasu yo." I thought they'd have been delighted to hear it. I guess they want us to break them faster so that we have to buy more of them?!

                          That one got probably an average of two practices a week over the ten years. It finally went t.u. in a renshu jiai by splitting transversely on one slat.

                          While I think they feel a little nibui compared to bamboo, they've saved me from not being able to practice on many occasions.



                          • #14
                            Ecerybody knoes that the most masters of kendo prefere the bamboo shinai.It is not so good as the hasegawa but the old kendoist are conservations.


                            • #15
                              Well, I will voice the opinion of the receiving end. i hate carbon sinai, because:
                              1) they look horrible
                              2) they sound horrible
                              3) they sting the receiving end during kote
                              4) they bend too much
                              5) they mark my do
                              Ok, the last point doesn't bother me too much givne the curent state of my bogu, but it will when buy a new one.