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  • Does it exist?

    G'Day!

    The question I want to pose here is whether diarrokan(I think this is the word) exists?

    What I refer to here is the warrior's sixth sense. An example of it can be seen in the book Musashi. The scene describes how Musashi passed an old Abbot raking the ground and felt a force coming at him and he had to take a defensive posture. The Abbot however had not moved, nor taken an attacking posture, but Musashi could "feel" an attack coming from the end of the rake.

    On speaking to the Monk Musashi explained the melevolance he had felt. The Monk then replies that it was Musashi who had radiated such force and that he had only reacted defensively. Now the story goes on to the monk explaining that Musashi is too strong...etc. But the question I pose here is whether the ability that these kenshi had to sense attacks was real?


    I have heard stories of kendokas (usually Godan) who can actually do this. Whereby they counter your attack even as you think about it.


    Three questions then:

    1) Does this sixth sense exist?

    2) Is this ability inherent?

    3)Or, does this ability come with age, maturity, training?


    Peace,
    Meng

  • #2
    Damn

    Meng your giving all my secrets away.

    Hyaku

    Comment


    • #3
      ?

      I always thought mystical powers were the province of anime and romanticized views of samurai. I don't think it's some kind of psychic sense, if anything it's the accumulated years of shiai experience, and understanding how your opponent thinks, or how they may move next from what they have done already.

      As for attacks from rakes, it certainly did act as a nice segue for an important conversation about power, fear and the need for mercy, now didn't it? Maybe musashi had a hidden fear of garden implements in the hands of monks. he was tied to a tree, in a garden, by a monk in his youth, was he not?

      obviously, i'm kidding about the psycho-analysis, but the rest is serious.

      c

      Comment


      • #4
        <whisper>
        I see dead people...
        </whisper>

        P.S. I apologize in advance for the complete offtopic and harebrained post above. I just couldn't help it, I hate that movie!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Ian Russell
          <whisper>
          I see dead people...
          </whisper>

          P.S. I apologize in advance for the complete offtopic and harebrained post above. I just couldn't help it, I hate that movie!
          Yep, i usually see dead people too when i go through the family photo album. too many great grandparents. Put down the photo album, Mr. Russell, just put down the photo album.

          (i don't really watch movies, but i'm sure the one your'e referring to had nothing to do with a photo album.)

          c

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Confound


            Yep, i usually see dead people too when i go through the family photo album. too many great grandparents. Put down the photo album, Mr. Russell, just put down the photo album.

            (i don't really watch movies, but i'm sure the one your'e referring to had nothing to do with a photo album.)

            c
            I wish I had more time to watch the movies I like, its one of the few escapist tendencies I have, I like to curl up on the couch and watch a good movie when the snow is piled up outside on a sunday afternoon... In the summer month (haha, Canada joke) I spend as much as I can outside. The Ottawa Blues fest is on this week . Good music goin' on.

            I'll shut up now, I'm totally dragging this serious thread off topic.

            Ian "keeper of many photo albums filled with extinct relatives"

            Comment


            • #7
              Hmnnn...interesting


              Anyways, A friend of mine who is currently training in Singapore was telling me how during practice with a 7th Dan (Ican't remember his name but I know he is a Catholic Priest in Singapore) it wouldn't be the case of you attacking and getting a counter movement. What he said was, as soon as he thought of the attack, the counter came. Eg, he was thinking, I'll attack Kote and the next thing he knew the Sensei was on his left with shinai resting gently on hidari kote. He was telling me it was pretty unnerving how whenever he tried to attack his opponent, the reaction was already there beforehend.


              This doesn't have to be the supernatural but at the same time what is this skill that high level Kendoists have? Experience?

              Meng

              Comment


              • #8
                More likely the 7th dan forced him into cutting kote and countered because he knew it was coming.
                (I've been on the recieving side many a time).

                Jakob

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by KhawMengLee
                  what is this skill that high level Kendoists have? Experience
                  Not that I'm speaking from experience but if I had to venture a guess, I would agree with you. Some people just get so good at kendo that their skills seem somewhat supranormal to people like us with considerably less experience.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    yeah, I think it's experience/knowledge too. I don't believe in spiritual powers in kendo.

                    (Now let me hide down here and wait for the flames to come form the spiritual boys

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by alexpollijr
                      yeah, I think it's experience/knowledge too. I don't believe in spiritual powers in kendo.

                      (Now let me hide down here and wait for the flames to come form the spiritual boys
                      ah don't be afraid of the spiritual boys, just give them a big nasty look, and they'll suddenly see the 'great power of your spirit' and back down.

                      c

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by alexpollijr
                        yeah, I think it's experience/knowledge too. I don't believe in spiritual powers in kendo.

                        (Now let me hide down here and wait for the flames to come form the spiritual boys

                        Hello Alex

                        Well put it this way. Sometime or another a very high ranking teacher will perhaps ask you questions that relate to this thread. Hope you have your answers ready. It doesnt relate to just Kendo but budo in general.

                        But can't relate to this Musashi story. I does not fit in with the Hyoho that he taught.

                        I can understand threat a sudden move on the part of someone strong sending someone else into a defensive position. Such as the monk being disturbed by his presence.

                        Towards the latter part of his life Musashi's way was based on naturalness. Movement is based on a natural walk in to attack.

                        One of the methods of success in his hyoho is not to to let the opponent have any idea whatsoever of ones intention.

                        Also there are no defensive postures. There are adopted stances taken when an attack is imminent. Did he have a weapon in his hands. The jujitsu/unarming techniques have no actual kamae.

                        This story leads one to believe that he had completely disregarded his principles and made a mess of it.

                        Hyaku
                        Last edited by Hyaku; 9th July 2002, 08:50 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by alexpollijr
                          yeah, I think it's experience/knowledge too. I don't believe in spiritual powers in kendo.

                          (Now let me hide down here and wait for the flames to come form the spiritual boys

                          Hello Alex

                          Well put it this way. Sometime or another a very high ranking teacher will perhaps ask you questions that relate to this thread. Hope you have your answers ready. It doesnt relate to just Kendo but budo in general.

                          But can't relate to this Musashi story. I does not fit in with the Hyoho that he taught.

                          I can understand threat a sudden move on the part of someone strong sending someone else into a defensive position. Such as the monk being disturbed by his presence.

                          Towards the latter part of his life Musashi's way was based on naturalness. Movement is based on a natural walk in to attack.

                          One of the methods of success in his hyoho is not to to let the opponent have any idea whatsoever of ones intention.

                          Also there are no defensive postures. There are adopted stances taken when an attack is imminent.

                          This story leads one to believe that he had completely disregarded his principles and made a mess of it.

                          Hyaku

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            This story leads one to believe that he had completely disregarded his principles and made a mess of it.
                            I can't fully remember the story but maybe he didn't go into a defensive stance. Don't have the book with me at this moment. The part I do remember is how Musashi felt, as described, "something murderous about the way the abbot held the hoe/rake". He was describing how he felt that an attack could come, though the abbot did not at face value show any sign of hostility.

                            Later on the Abbot describes how he himself felt Musashi's aura and felt an attack so he naturally responded in readiness to defend. He goes on to say how Musashi is too strong and needs to be more calm or balanced.

                            Of course this story is early in the book and he goes on to learn to balance his "aura" so to speak.

                            ******************

                            Meng

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              critical point

                              Originally posted by KhawMengLee


                              Of course this story is early in the book and he goes on to learn to balance his "aura" so to speak.

                              Meng
                              Meng, I don't think you're wrong, Meng. I have to admit to only having seen the movies, but if i remember correctly, that talk with the abbot was the turning point for Musashi, when he realized that strength was not enough.

                              c

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