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  • #16
    Originally posted by Tort-Speed View Post
    Don't know what BPMs are..."bloody poor 'men's" ?
    What I meant by making one's eyes worse is not necessarily contacts but all eye-aids: if we use them to improve our vision, and
    on a constant basis, is it possible the eyes weaken sooner - rather than if we tried to see with what vision we still have?
    No, likely it is the opposite.

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    • #17
      Doc says around 100 beats/min. - over that, stop.
      Wudda thot being sporty since 6, 'bout 40 years' budo (judo, karate, kung fu, iai, kendo), 4 full marathons (granted, not fast), a 20-year lacto-ovo vegetarian diet (granted, peanut butter & cheese every day but also tofu, soy beans), no smoking etc., 'never expected what happened late Nov. last year when I went to my Tokyo dojo. An overseas, non-Japanese visitor was coming and was suggested I may lend a hand (translating or whatever).
      7AM Kendo keiko, not in bogu: did one proper kirikaishi set + 6~7 men-uchis - BUT after a 7 mth layoff due to work & lingering ACL probs. Surprised to be unusually out-of-breath as had been bicycling daily and fast dog-walking twice/day=45 min. total of brisk exercise, walking everywhere else totaling about 60 min., and karate (cross-training) weekly.
      11AM got results of annual med checkup - all "A's" Including EKG, but "C" for cholesterol & weight. That very-experienced Dr. just said "watch both," that's all. Rode my bicycle home and had lunch, got walked by the dogs. Had the afternoon off but by
      9PM, couldn't keep awake; after 2AM, pain started FROM Wrists, going up to elbows.
      4AM, walked myself to the nearby hosp., ambulanced me to another.
      5:30-7:30AM stent operation (happily hooked up to morphine mix, it seems, with a view of a huge clock). Only thing that Doc ever said was "hearto attacku". Go figure.
      Thanks for input, guys.
      P.S. Goal is 6-dan test, possibly 1st try in Nov. (Tokyo). Ha Ha and LOL

      Comment


      • #18
        There is very little chance of you keeping it under 100 bpm. That is a very low rate for any cardio exercise. To put it into perspective, that would be considered the very bottom of the range for aerobic exercise for a typical 65 year old. If your doc wants it under 100 he is advising quite a lot of caution. I would listen to him and also seek a second opinion.

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        • #19
          I generally concur with Neil. Everyone's basal heart rate and amount of increase is different based on age, genetics and level of fitness, but 100 bpm is quite low, based on what I know of my heart rate during kendo. I am 36, and generally during gigeiko my heart rate is at a fairly constant 170-180 bpm if I'm feeling comfortable, if I'm pressed (particularly by a kodansha, or during kakarigeiko), it has been up to 195 or so. During waza keiko, even with instruction, at 5 wazas per turn and brief commentary after each rotation, it cycles through a peak of 145-150 to valleys about 100-110. Generally for me, the only thing that is around 100 bpm is kata, which is the equivalent of a brisk walk around my neighborhood.

          Other thing to think about is that putting on the bogu tends to elevate your heart rate already by about 5-10 bpm (at least for me).

          This has been relatively consistent over almost all of my practices for a year or so, to the point where I can generally look at a graph of my heart rate during kendo and tell you what we were doing during that practice, and when....

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          • #20
            Thank you for those serious comments. The doctor who did the operation and oversaw my progress after that in the hospital where he's in charge, had said I can do Kendo a month after discharge (Jan. 1~). The "around 100" Doc is the second opinion. Though likely controlled by the meds, my resting rate is around 65 bpm (checked at that Doc's after walking 15 min, sitting in a train for 5, then 5 more min' on foot to his clinic). Guess had better change my avatar to snails and start praying? TS

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            • #21
              To be honest I would get a heart rate monitor and go ahead and measure different kinds of activities with it so you can get a better idea of what "100" bpm actually feels like for you across a range of different activities. As well, it would be good to find out of the "100 bpm" mark is time limited (i.e. a month of recovery? or forever?). Also, probably with an abundance of caution I'd find out what your normal standing heart rate is (your heart rate while standing, not sitting or lying down) and then find out what your standing heart rate is with your bogu on.

              Also, I've personally been trying to develop my anaerobic stamina and increase my intensity during kendo practices, so I am deliberately trying to push myself during practice. Intentionally not trying to push myself does yield lower BPMs, but for my own training goals that hasn't been part of the picture so far, so I don't know how "low" you can go during a kendo practice.

              I should add, and not as a direct critique of your prior exercise plan, that I also do quite a bit of walking now as part of my fitness program, and at least in terms of heart rate, a brisk walk doesn't even come close to elevating my heart rate as a "normal" kendo practice does. When I first looked at my heart rate in kendo compared to things like walking, working out in the gym, and stationary bicycling, it was somewhat shocking. The kendo practice hadn't felt particularly "hard" but what the objective measurements were telling me was that consistently I was in the upper edges of "anaerobic" and what my measuring program calls "red-line" for 10-15 minutes at a time during regular gigeiko sessions (fight 3-4 people of similar grade for 10 minutes, each for 2-3 minutes, with rotations but no breaks, giving it a good effort and not being lazy). I was concerned if this was "normal" or not so I read one or two published scientific sources that I could find and they essentially reported that during gigeiko heart rate goes very high. Granted, you're not supposed to really make an informed decision on one or two scientific sources, but I figured that I hadn't died over the years that I have done kendo, and that I'd just keep measuring.

              Over the past year that I've been measuring myself, gigeiko, kakarigeiko, hayasuburi (choyaku suburi), and kirikaeshi consistently elevate my heart rate to anaerobic levels. Footwork exercises (ashi-sabaki) alone doesn't seem to do so as much. I have some suspicion that in addition to the actual activity, fight or flight responses start occurring during kakarigeiko and gigeiko, but I'm not sure if there is an easy way to measure that with my smart phone.

              It has made me cautious about more elderly beginners with per-exisiting health conditions starting kendo, it is a very intense activity compared to other things....

              Comment


              • #22
                Enkorat, thanks for the continued input. Today I bought and tried the heart monitor, which has 2 parts, one inside above the ribs and against the skin, the monitor about heart area. The watch part has an alarm that goes off when you reach the limit you enter (high and low hb) for yourself. I tried a few kote, two going past the imagined opponent after striking; others were men strikes using hidari jodan but not going past aite. My pulse rose from about 73 to 78~79 bpm.
                I also, btw, ordered small-lens glasses that will fit inside the "men." (There's anti-fog stuff here, too, as mentioned in above post.)
                But at the bogu shop, the fellow commented that the impact of tai-atari or getting munet-tsukied would break the heart monitor, besides possibly same with the watch part with a kote strike. Nevertheless, we investigated switching to lighter-weight bogu, since it was mentioned the extra weight can increase heartrate.
                I see there are several challenges but still want to try: perhaps do high-Sensei or old-man Kendo, meaning no patterns to
                develop speed and stamina, just gi-keiko and trying to control mind and spirit=breathing. If it were not for the fact that a well-known 8-Dan Sensei, who is aware of my illness, has agreed to take me on as one of his students, I might leave it all and do soft stuff like Kyudo, Tai Chi and ink-drawing painting.
                I met him 18 years ago and hadn't the courage or is it foolishness to ask him to teach me, though seeing him several times since I moved here in '95 like at my Tokyo dojo or at shinsa; and exchanging New Year's cards. It is because of him and also that the older guys who first taught me have passed on, the remaining one having terminal cancer, that I want to keep trying.

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                • #23
                  You can't just do a couple of kote and evaluate it from that. Your heart rate foes not respond that quickly. Furthermore the longer you exercise the higher it will go for the same effort. If I go fir an easy run I observe a 20+ bpm difference between the start and the end at the exact same running pace. As far as wearing the strap under bogu I have done it and it is fine. If you are going to taiatari hard enough to break it I guarantee you will be practising too hard for your HR goals. I simply buckled the watch part on the tare himo at the back as I was only interested in checking the data post-keiko.

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                  • #24
                    Gendzwill Sensei, on second thought, after reading your comments, maybe the bogu shop man keikos with many younger or lower dans, having them slam into him as part of their training. Tare himo sounds good but up-front to easily look at...maybe between the o- and ko-tare flaps?, if on the wrist would likely break. This morning 'will give the monitor and me a longer check, using uchikomi-dai.

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