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Cross Swords, Know Love??

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  • Cross Swords, Know Love??

    Noticing the motto at London's Mumeishi dojo, "Cross Swords, Know Love", I was wondering...
    What type of Kendoka do you particularly HATE practising with?

    This is to express my anger+frustration over some fellow Kendoka. Damn them sometimes after Kendo I think I've to go for some anger-management class because of those dumb-asses.

    I'll start by saying---

    I fully understand Kendo is a full body-contact martial art, and missing cuts on undesirable areas is inevitable. One smash on my elbow, I can take. It's okay if you've missed twice. But for the 3rd time? Please pause for a while and think about what you're doing. Most of the time when people miss cuts they sign for a 'Ya-me' to check if their opponent is okay. I think this should be an unspoken part of Reigi because a normal human being would understand this. Hey if I did 10 jikeiko and every one misses 3 cuts on me, then I'll be receiving 30 with my own flesh. Although it's not my primary concern, I don't want special attention on public transportation when I go home at late-night with numerous bruise on my arms (the big fishing gear pack is drawing enough attention already).

    Someone please have their own entry and explaination, so that we'd all know what we shouldn't be doing, and to make our practice more enjoyable. Thanks. (or I'll fill up the list by putting down more of mine)

    (BTW... This teaching of Kendo actually contradicts with the Jedi Codes, which states that, "A Jedi Shall Not Know Anger. Nor Hatred. Nor Love." )

  • #2
    I like practicing with all types of kendoka -- perhaps even more so those who piss me off.

    Because those who piss me off are most often the ones that are showing me my weaknesses, technical and psychological. Sometimes it's a bitter pill to swallow, though. :P

    Mingshi -- I think we've all been on the receiving end of that kind of kendo, but maybe think about it this way instead: if the guy can hit me three times in the same WRONG spot, then if he were just a little more skilled, that means he can hit me three times on the same RIGHT spot. So somehow you've gotta come up with a counter-strategy for those guys. IMO, learning how to control your opponent is a big part of kendo, whether they know how to hit correctly or not.

    Hey, they might not be playing kendo, but you are, right?


    • #3
      I absolutely agree with cklin.
      Although missed hit do annoy people, but then, inevitably, they are quite "lethal" if you look at it. If they do some how controlled their hit, you already lost a point. Plus, if they hit and missed, it could mean they do not ment to missed, but somehow missed it. But, if you look at another perspective, that mean you have opening for them to attack.
      I personally don't hold any grudge on those missed hits, since I often receive them in the pass when I was helping to teach the beginner.... acting as mototachi, it is definately not fun (can you imagine 25 beginners, practicing "Do" cut on 2 motodachi only. I went how and found my rib cage near the arm pit was bruised the size of my fist).

      The only time I really don't forget the person (which happened once), was the person deliberately pushed and wack regardless of anything. I end up have no choice and Tsuki him so hard, just to teach him a lesson.


      • #4
        Mistakes are okay, we all make mistakes.

        But I hate it when people don't learn from their mistakes.

        Theres a person in my dojo who started out the same time as us(8months) and he still makes the same mistakes.


        Maai and seme. He doesn't begin his cuts at the correct distance. like for a men cut. we start at sakigawa (the tips) of the shinais touching. we move in and then cut.

        he will start too close in, take another step and hit you with the bottom part of the shinai(below the nakayuki).

        We keep telling him adjust your distance but still it doesn't click.

        sigh, maybe he's just too tired.


        If I screw elbow hit instead of do, I will usually carry on but apologize later after practice because I don't want to distrupt the flow.



        • #5
          h@hat person@sucks at practicing keiko.@@Then just say thank you, end it and move on. No point in practicing with someone who doesn't know what kendo really is. They'll get the point sooner or later.


          • #6
            The only type of Kendoka that I dislike practising with is the type that shows you absolutely no respect. For example, hitting you when your back is turned to them. I don't even mind getting hit in untarget places, however, if someone is obviously making mistakes, and not just hitting you by accident, it makes me a little upset. But, as cklin said, it is a lesson in patience.


            • #7
              I guess my pet peeve is beginners who show no attempt to follow dojo etiquette or respect. My problem with them, is I'm never sure what to do with them when they dont behave. I'm still a newbie myself (though I at least wear partial bogu so obviously dont look like its my first week), so in part its not my place to discipline them, and also I dont want to frighten them away by seeming severe. But it does piss me off to play motodatchi and be waiting for the next person in line (line? what line?!!) to come at me cos they're too busy chatting, propping up the wall, leaning on their shinai etc etc. If I'm gonna stand there and be a human target, at least have the decency to hit me!!!

              Am I being too anal? Obviously, a lot of these guys arent going to stick at it, but I dont want to come over as firebreathing, especially when I'm a novice myself. But when "running the shallow end" as the most experienced non-boguist that day, its annoying to have to repeatedly ask people to get in line, and yet end up standing there shouting "Hajime!!" so that someone will wake up and come hit me....

              I want to welcome them to Kendo, and hope they do stick at it, but I also want them to help me get on with the session!




              • #8
                I know what you mean David, especially as you do Motadachi quite a lot.

                Generally though, those who get as far as buying a Hakama do 'get with the program' and start to follow Dojo rules. Maybe it is something to do with being 'in costume'.

                I think you need to step up into the middle end as it were - you are at least as ready, as say, me.

                My peeve is people who ignore the Sensai's instructions during Jigeiko - as an EG he will say, practise cutting Men, don't block, do it slowly and concentrate on getting it right, and people are so fired up to do Jigeiko that they cut Kote, block, dance around etc etc

                then you have the option of following suit or just allowing yourself to get bashed.

                thats a new in armour fault to match the newbie fault...


                • #9
                  Posted by Mingshi

                  I sympathize with you mingshi, every Kendoka should be big enough to admit that they have landed a crappy cut and periodically when its particularly heavy, stop and check that your opponent is okay - I think this is an important part of Dojo etiquette. My personal pet hate, which I'm sure will drive me to anger management courses is Kendoka who do nothing but block every single attack you make. This I could deal with if say, someone is attempting to develop a counter attacking technique or trying to time suriage waza to perfection, but to have someone block everything you do with NO ATTEMPT to do anything themselves drives me mad. Perhaps I'm being to harsh, I'd be interested to know from any of you how you deal with such Kendoka.


                  • #10
                    Er that might be me actually - especially when i am tired. i'll try not to be so defensive in future.

                    i get annoyed when people do Men cut so hard your teeth rattle.

                    i have literally seen stars sometimes.

                    i think, "we're not in a Shiai, chill out a little bit!"

                    especially if your armour is not so good, you come out of Keiko half an inch shorter.

                    I always come away from Keiko with bruises up and down my arms - i just figured this was part of the deal?


                    • #11
                      A visiting sensei once told me that there is no shame in being cut whilst practicing jigeiko, in fact he used to watch your cuts come in 3 maybe 4 times, working out your timing, your weaknesses, your overall approach. Then he'd leather you! It appears to me that no-one learns anything from constantly blocking without any attempt to develop their own Kendo. If you really are so tired that you cannot physically attack any more, try watching one or maybe two cuts coming in, look at your opponents timing, footwork, body movement etc, etc, you may find it more beneficial than simply blocking all the time.

                      Keep practicing


                      • #12
                        Good advice.

                        often also it is fear or emotional tiredness which causes one to block rather than take the initiative.

                        but like in all things, conquering fear and tiredness to take the initiative is always a better tactic than allowing your opponent to take the initiative and then trying to catch up.


                        • #13
                          boiling rivers of hatred flow within my veins

                          I am aware that this is not very buddhist or polite or whatever, but I deeply hate some kind of people who pop up at the dojo.

                          The first is the 'i-know-it-all-about-martial-arts' type. This guy says he has practiced every imaginable martial art and claims to know everything about it. So, even beinh your kohai, he thinks he's in his right to correct the others, even his sempai.

                          The second is the 'i-whack-you-whatever-i-want-to' type. This guy has some bizarre notions about kendo and makes it a point to not only strike whatever part of you but to teach shushinsha to do the same. They tuck the kensen inside your sleeve, causing a nasty welt/bruise combination, he turns around and strike your back when you are following through after 'do', strike the neck, the arm, the arm pit, whatever. And he makes no apology and continues to employ these unimaginable stupid techniques practice after practice.

                          The third type is the cocky shushinsha/mudansha. THis kind has just joined the dojo, makes everything wrong but thinks he's so much better than the other shushinsha who joined with him that he starts to pester around asking when he can use kendogu, when can he spar, etc.

                          Coincidently I have them all in my dojo. The first one I concluded that I would just ignore him completely and in keiko just outmatch him, even if he can't notice that. The second one I'm going to settle things with this weekend. I'll probably strike him in his wounded shoulder. That'll teach him not to strike people's back. The third type I already solved last practice by bashing his skill in front of all the shushinsha.

                          For now, I'll keep boiling this rich blend of contempt and anger in my mind as I try to heal the physical wounds.


                          • #14
                            "to come at me cos they're too busy chatting, propping up the wall, leaning on their shinai etc etc. If I'm gonna stand there and be a human target, at least have the decency to hit me!!! "

                            David, just tell them. Most are not aware of the etiquette and just need to be told once (sometimes twice).



                            • #15
                              Originally posted by JSchmidt
                              David, just tell them. Most are not aware of the etiquette and just need to be told once (sometimes twice).

                              After the third time was when the frustration started to kick in...