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  • hiki waza

    again these aren't the most interesting/flamming topics but why not...

    I heard that in some dojo, Hiki waza aren't really use that much.

    I personaly use hikiwaza a lot, to get out of tsubazeria and sometimes I can get a point doing it. I think these techniques are the less dangerous to use since there isn't many possible way the oponent can do any oji waza against them.

    However, I don't want to put a lot of importance on these waza in my training since they are techniques I don't really believe that can improve my overall kendo. So I usualy use them without really thinking/caring of getting ippon.


    So my question is what do you think about hiki waza?

    Happy kendo!!

  • #2
    I think it's too hard to get a point with

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    • #3
      Hiki-waza is an excellent wayto get out of tsubazeriai without getting into trouble. in the places where I train,i'm guaranteed that my opponent is going to be thinking about hiki waza.

      look at it this way: If your opponent thinks about hiki waza, you need to think about it too. if your opponent isn't thinking about it, you may score a quick point.

      it's the hiki waza arms race...

      c

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      • #4
        I look at it the other way. I try to get people to do hikiwaza, so I can follow up and often score that way. It's hard to defend when you are going backwards.
        Having said that, I also need to work on mine. It's only just now, that I'm starting to people to do fumikomi with right foot, when doing hikiwaza, but I'm making sure I move fast enough to get away for any eventual counter-attack.

        Jakob

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        • #5
          If you use hiki waza without thinking/caring whether you get a point or not, it certainly won't improve your kendo.

          What are you doing in tsuba zeriai if you've not got any real intention of trying to strike your opponent with a proper strike? If you're not going to use hiki waza with full intent, tai atari off at a different angle and try again from issoku itto no ma-ai.

          There's nothing wrong with hiki waza at all, and there are any number of oji waza to use against hiki waza: nuki waza, kaeshi waza, suriage waza, uchi-otoshi waza come to mind immediately.

          Some techniques are more suited to some people's kendo than others, so if you like using hiki waza, go for it, but you shouldn't be trying to do hiki waza at the expense of other techniques from issoku itto no ma-ai, that's the only proviso.

          Hamish

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          • #6
            I have difficulty doing hiki waza properly enough to get a point. The foot-stomp-while-going-backward-thing screws up my timing. I'm going to try using my forward momentum to push the opponent back and then get the hit (basically something like men-"push"-hiki men) all in one movement.
            Also, hiki waza really only looks good (to me at least) when it's painfully obvious (i.e. the opponent is completly open, maybe after a feint). I personally have difficulty scoring it when watching a match (not as shinpan but just as a spectator): any tips?

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            • #7
              As with kendo from chudan, you need to create the opening.
              Simplest way, is to push the opponents hands the way you want to cut. Push down and the opponent will push back up, making an opening for do; Push up and you can create opening for men; Push his top hand to the right and you can open up the kote, etc.

              Of course, as with anything, all these can be used against you, if the opponent is aware of it.

              Daff

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              • #8
                I personally do not use Hiki waza alot, only for hiki-do which I find if you do right looks obvious enough. Our club uses hiki waza rather often and there are a few in the club that do it very well, unfortunately I am not one of them. I use it only for do/kote strikes since I am much shorter than my average male opponent. Any other time I use it is to get out of tsuba zeriai and back quickly to get a kote or men as it usually throws the other person off balance and while they are thinking about keeping their balance you can use it as an opportunity to score.

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                • #9
                  Our sensei likes to see a lot of hiki waza, especially in the junior students, because it shows our spirit is up. However, when he shinpans in the dojo or at our annual tournament, he has never, to my knowledge given a point to a hiki waza, even to a senior student. So most people treat it as a way to get out of tsubazeriai rather than as a real opportunity to get a point.

                  I was pleased to see a hiki waza in the 49th All-japan tournament. Until then, I thought it was an unspoken rule that such a point was impossible.

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                  • #10
                    That's true doing hiki waza and not just backing up is a lot more active way to do kendo. I personaly prefer it that way.

                    I got a few points with hiki waza in tournaments so far,
                    but ya again i'm just mudansha so they give almost anything that looks like a hit. lol

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                    • #11
                      I use hiki waza a lot, especially hiki kote. I don't know why. But doing this a lot will get you tired very soon, if you're doing keiko.

                      hey max, yoshiiiiiiiiiiih ^-^

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                      • #12
                        On a side note, I've been watching some clips of the high school championships (probably watched about 200+ seperate points) and the nearly the most common point scored was a hiki-men, outstripped only by men- coming up in roughly 20% of the points I ended up watching .. man, those high school kids sure know how to put 'em in there...

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                        • #13
                          would it be better for short people?

                          My theory is that, Hiki-waza is for shorter Kendoka.

                          Tall people generally have a longer reach, and they can even cut Men from toi-maai if their opponent is much shorter.
                          Applying the same principle, a short person can go back to the correct striking distance from Tsuba-zeriai faster... because from there a taller person has to travel a longer distance for the first 1/3 of the blade to arrive on the opponent...

                          When fighting against "blockers", Hiki-do/gyaku-do/gyaku-kote are really useful because most of them expect a hiki-men/kote...

                          Sigh... sorry for the bad English here.

                          Another thing is that, I think it's much harder to score a Hiki-waza because:
                          1) It's hard to get Ki-ken-tai-ichi when going backwards, especially if you want the stamping sound.
                          2) Where should your Zanshin go? (I need some advice too because for most of the Hiki-do I made... I went Hasso for zanshin )
                          3) Again, this is an invention of Modern Kendo. You cannot possibly cut someone effectively on going backwards. Plus, If your opponent has a strong center, he/she doesn't need to care about any Hiki-waza you made because his/her Shinai tip is on your Tsuki already. Just quietly go backwards.

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                          • #14
                            "3) Again, this is an invention of Modern Kendo. You cannot possibly cut someone effectively on going backwards"

                            I saw a kenjutsu video once where there were kata that uchidachi perfomed a serie of cuts going backwards while pursued by shidachi .

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                            • #15
                              "2) Where should your Zanshin go?"

                              Initially, where you cut it, as in a forward cut. In that sense, you still have to 'cut' the target. Just bouncing it off the men is not enough; Then, with men cuts especially, throw your arms up and slightly back, to assist your movement away from the opponent.
                              (Note, that the opponent has to be either static or moving backwards when you cut, otherwise it wont count.)
                              With kote or do, only pull the shinai to the side until you are far enough away from the opponent that they can't counter-attack.


                              When you get sufficient distance away, resume chudan.

                              As for the fumikomi, the only way to get a nice sound (for me anyway), is to use the right foot. As with the forward cut, use it as springboard to propel you backwards. (It's only after 2 years I'm able to get something that feels right).

                              Jakob

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