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hiki waza

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  • #16
    I have been told that for zanshin on hiki men. You have to try to hold your shinai the highest possible pointing upward.

    Also have to go very very fast backward at least 3-4 steps , then ya resume in chudan.

    Hiki dou......hum I think you have to keep your shinai a bit on the right side. DUnno! Watch Mitsunobu Satou on 47th zennihon championship. He does one nice hiki dou there.

    But I think the key is really that you go the fastest possible backward without your opponent being able to catch you back.

    happy kendooooooooooo!!!!!


    • #17
      Re. hiki waza being from modern kendo:

      In a lot of the Katayama-ryu kenjutsu basic drills and kata, we cut going back. Since your body is moving back at the same time as you're cutting, it actually makes for quite an effective cut. To cut properly you have to either push the sword forward or pull it back.

      Seitei iai no. 3 is similar, as you do the final cut as you step back into kamae, technically a hiki waza, and you see a lot of cuts in naginata where you pull back, or move back with the cut.

      However, you wouldn't see tsuba zeriai if you both had a 3 foot razor blade in your hands, would you

      There's a nice Katayama-ryu technique where you proceed to push the kensen down with your left hand and cut your opponent's jugular from tsuba zeriai!

      Obviously the use of shinai has shaped the kinds of hiki-waza that are used these days, but I don't think cutting while going backwards is incompatible with the use of a real sword.



      • #18
        Plus, If your opponent has a strong center, he/she doesn't need to care about any Hiki-waza you made because his/her Shinai tip is on your Tsuki already

        You've only got a problem if you choose to go back along that line, if you go off at an angle and strike, you should get a very clear point.


        • #19
          Mingshi: Where should your Zanshin go? (I need some advice too because for most of the Hiki-do I made... I went Hasso for zanshin

          Your shinai shouldn't move too far from the position it strikes the do (before returning to chudan), in particular, don't let the hassuji (blade angle) change, as the shinpan will often look at that to decide whether it was a valid strike or not.


          • #20
            Yeah, I mean, I am always told, and tell my kohei, that you should either be at maai, going forward, or going backward, never in between resting or whatever. If you're at tsuba-zerai, you can't just hang out there, you've got to take your shot. This comes out in kakari-geiko, when you're going all out - you should either be attacking forward or attacking backward.


            • #21
              Thank you Hamish. Your explaination make more sense.

              Okay, so cut while stepping back is effective. However, why would anyone holding a sword be in that situation? I can understand that for Naginata... but a sword? The Tsuba would have been cut in half! I should have said a "cut-while-stepping-back" from Tsuba-zeriai is an invention of modern Kendo.

              BTW, is a Hiki-Tsuki valid too? (Sort of like the one in Kendo Kata #7)


              • #22
                Hiki tsuki?

                is that humanly possible?


                • #23
                  Re: hiki waza

                  Originally posted by kendokamax
                  "I am Doka , Ken Doka."
                  No you're not, I am.



                  • #24

                    many ppl can have the same name....right?


                    • #25
                      I practice hiki waza frequently during ji geiko. My favorit method to do space for a hiki men is to do so if you cut a hiki dou, then after it hit a hiki men fast it usually works, the opponent will pull down his shinai to parry the dou.
                      But off course there are the other methods mentioned above.


                      • #26
                        I like to use hiki-waza sporadically from tsuba zeriai or tai atari so that my opponent has to wonder if it is coming or not. However, like many of you have noted, I've never scored with it even when I thought I had a clean cut. I've concluded that I don't understand the foot work necessary. I've been told I need an expert to walk me through it, as it is hard to describe in words, but could some here give it a try?

                        I've guessed at two ways: 1) push back per normal with the right foot (toes/ball), shift weight to left foot and then "stomp" with the right foot as I snap right foot back again, simultaneously contacting the target with the shinai; and/or
                        2) push out of tsuba zeriai with a little "jump" backward like in chiauga (sp- sorry)- pushing off with the right foot, but then land with a "stomp" of the right foot slightly before the left foot, simultaneously contacting the target with the shinai.

                        I don't think think I've got it and would enjoy some help.



                        • #27
                          No expert myself but my 2nd Sensei, Kazu san ex[lained to us that when we move into tai atari our stance should be a bit wider(eg. back left foot a bit further back) to ave balance and to be able to stomp the right foot with the strike.


                          • #28
                            Thank you for your reply. So, do you mean that in backing out of tai atari, the left foot stays firm on the ground and you push back out of tai atari with arms & maybe a bit of right foot, and you then "stomp" the right foot, simultaneously contacting the target. Thus, at the time of the cut, your feet would be no further back than your left foot was in tai atari. Is this your meaning?

                            Thank you,


                            • #29
                              yep, I think that as what Kazu san was trying to say. The push out you give each other in tai atari may help to add momentum.
                              At the moment I am still trying to master this.

                              I keep trying to jump back or push back with my right foot and stomp at the same time. So I end up jumping back instead of stomping and moving back.



                              • #30
                                Will will will, you still can't score with hiki men? :P j/k

                                Anyways, I love this one. It is a hard one to get with the shimpan. The strike has to be solid. Then you need to coordinate that with your fumikomi. When you zanshin after the hit, your shinai is pointing "backwards" with hands and forearms above your head. When you do that, you should be scooting out of the opponents ideal striking distance as soon as possible so he can't come back and strike you.