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**Kenshi** · 16th June 2008, 06:23 PM

I think you have little or no chance of becoming a member of the EKF/FIK but I wish you luck. Kendo na hEirean wanted to register their name as the Irish Kendo Federation (or something similar) but the BKA made sure that didnt happen... and thats something as small/unimportant as a name. The BKAs issue there of-course, was that N.Ireland is part of the UK.

I can think of a number of reasons why you may hesitate wanting to affiliate yourself with the BKA, but im guessing people will wonder what your reasons are.... after all, you are ignoring an established organisation and potentially denying your students access to seminars/grading opportunities, and the ability to take part in the European and World kendo championships.

Im sure you can get round the 1st load of problems by being a member dojo of a different organisation, but it seems a shame that your younger members might not be able, one day, to take part in the European and World Championship.

**bobdonny** · 16th June 2008, 06:29 PM

Originally posted by Kirwin33 View Post

As far as experience. I have over 20 years of Kendo experience in the AUSKF and I'm a 6th Dan Renshi.

You may have kendo experience but you lack basic manners, IMO.
I know the Irish Kendo Federation has not heard from you, I'm not sure about the BKA.

Also Bother we and the BKA have an excellent relationship and we are actively pursuing developing northern Kendo. There is alot there to be considered, even Iaido and Jodo needs to be looked at.

Maybe talking to us first without posting on this forum could have been a better way.
Maybe even introducing yourself to us may have helped also. We could sure use high grades.

On these islands we all try to help each other, we dont play for power...

**JCM** · 16th June 2008, 07:04 PM

Guys, I think everyone needs to calm down a little bit.

Is a new club in the Island, is early days and the announcement was just made and I thought it meant well, I don't think it was ill intentioned. Lets not burn any bridges.

Join Date: May 2017 · 16th June 2008, 07:13 PM

I think this is an issue that needs alot more thought and discussion with the existing associaitons.

Northern Ireland is very different from Hawaii and kenshi from Northern ireland have represented Great Britian internationally for years under the remit of the BKA.

Dave Bell for example is a Northern Irish Kenshi who was on the British Team for many years at EKC and WKC level.

Given the existing structures, the nature of the relationships between Irish federation and BKA, and the fact that BKA GB team members have come from the region in the past I think you should really reconsider.

If you are a sensei of such quality from the AUSKF why not share your talents with the BKA and help promote kendo in the region? I can't understand why you wouldn't want to?

The Scotish and Welsh Dojo's have no issue with this.

Its not English Kendo Association, its British Kendo Association, and for wrong or right Northern Ireland is a part of Britain.

**don don** · 16th June 2008, 07:20 PM

There isn't a club there yet, as I understand it, and it will likely take three to five years to build one (in my experience) - assuming the sensei is still there after that time.
It seems self contradictory for people to sharpen the knives and begin carving out where a non existent club belongs. The whole point, surely, is to get Kendo established first. That will be a long, slow process and one that should be supported.
And if the sesei isn't keen on involving himself in BKA politics, can we really blame him for that?

Join Date: May 2017 · 16th June 2008, 07:30 PM

Originally posted by don don View Post

There isn't a club there yet, as I understand it, and it will likely take three to five years to build one (in my experience) -

Even more reason to set things up properly in the first instance, there is alot to consider now. CRB checks, risk assessments, and other essential criteria that are very important. The BKA can help with this, and can support new clubs. The association isn't here to hinder kendo, its here to help people.

Originally posted by don don View Post

The whole point, surely, is to get Kendo established first. That will be a long, slow process and one that should be supported.

That is also the point of the FIK affiliated NGB's, definately kendo should be supported in Northern Ireland. I totally support the notion, I don't however support further fragmentation and this notion of the BKA as a hinderance or an evil "big Brother". It's an associaiton of members thats here to help Kendo, and I have always very firmly believed in these principles.

Originally posted by don don View Post

And if the sesei isn't keen on involving himself in BKA politics, can we really blame him for that?

When were politics mentioned? Regardless of recent events the association survived and moves forward. Trivialising or generalising like this helps no one, yes the BKA has it's faults but it is working hard to address these and I think does an admirable job in promoting the arts in Britian.

**PhilMcLaughlin** · 16th June 2008, 08:19 PM

Originally posted by Super Kodachi2 View Post

(
big snip)

Its not English Kendo Association, its British Kendo Association, and for wrong or right Northern Ireland is a part of Britain.

To be picky ;-)

Great Britain consists of England Scotland and Wales.

That then is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

cheers

**Moose** · 17th June 2008, 04:29 AM

To be really picky

Super Kodachi2 used the term Britain which is commonly used when refering to the United Kindom. He did not use the term Great Britain which is, as you say, the largest island of the British Isles.

**PhilMcLaughlin** · 17th June 2008, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by Moose View Post

To be really picky

Super Kodachi2 used the term Britain which is commonly used when refering to the United Kindom. He did not use the term Great Britain which is, as you say, the largest island of the British Isles.

little one is keeping me awake tonight so,

Jons post referred to NI as part of Britain - in fact its not (despite popular usage of the word)
NI is legally part of the UK

this probably has no relevance on whether Mikes dojo succeeds or not and what umbrella organisation it ends up in

I just wish him luck starting his club
ATB

phil

**Moose** · 17th June 2008, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by PhilMcLaughlin View Post

Jons post referred to NI as part of Britain - in fact its not (despite popular usage of the word)
NI is legally part of the UK

That all depends on what you consider "Britain" (rom the Roman Britannia) to be.

You consider it to be Great Britain(the island of England, Scotland and Wales) where as others consider it to be the British Isles(Britannia) which includes all the islands including Ireland(Northern Ireland and the Republic)

And since Mr Kirwin has not been back for sometime I fear the Nothern Ireland Kendo Federation may be stillborn.... but I hope his club will flourish.

**Kirwin33** · 17th June 2008, 01:40 PM

As far as the NIKF it will be an open and free dojo for anyone to come and practice or join as a member and their will be NO POLITICS involved with this federation in anyway.

The federation has come into some money and a sponsor to self support the federation for years to come, so as to not have to worry about polictics or membership level to survive.

This money and support is going to be used to build a new dojo complex with weight rooms,changing and shower facailities,etc. The federation has also come into the land to build this dojo.

Due to this support their will be no membership or monthly fees or joining fees what so ever. This dojo is being started for people to learn and practice kendo freely without having to worry about fees or polictics.

I'm currently back in the U.S. right now and we will have the dojo up and running come the end of summer.

Thanks for the nice words though the PM's and I hope to speak with the federation in Ireland soon about this, but anyone in world will be welcome to come and train at the dojo at anytime with no committments.

As I said, I hate polictics and this federation will not be invovled in them, but I will respond to some of the PM's that I recieved on this post from members of the BKA apparently.

Once and only once this federation will never ever belong to the BKA they can whin, cry and moan and even threaten all they want too, but its never going to happen as we dont need their threats or polictics to survive and that is all thats going to be said on the subject.

Mike Kirwin 6th Dan Renshi
President Norther Ireland Kendo Federation

**Kenshi** · 17th June 2008, 04:39 PM

Have free Guinness pour out of the taps in the changing rooms and you might just pull this off!

Join Date: May 2017 · 17th June 2008, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by Kirwin33 View Post

Once and only once this federation will never ever belong to the BKA they can whin, cry and moan and even threaten all they want too, but its never going to happen as we dont need their threats or polictics to survive and that is all thats going to be said on the subject.

Mike Kirwin 6th Dan Renshi
President Norther Ireland Kendo Federation

Thats incredibly narrow minded and I am really sorry for you that you feel that way.

But can I ask just once again why do you not want your club to be a BKA Dojo?

If you register with the Association it will not "own" your dojo at all. No one has any intention of threatening you or your Dojo, infact quite the opposite. Everyone welcomes a new Dojo in Northern Ireland and we'd all love to help.

Since you are American I really don't understand where this hostility towards the BKA comes from?

The BKA in a non for profit organisation, run by volunteers, to help and promote our Arts, not a dictatorship that wants to seize your assets.

**xvikingx** · 17th June 2008, 05:48 PM

Originally posted by Super Kodachi2 View Post

Since you are American

Is he? Perhaps he's an Irishman who lived in the States and returned home.
If he is can an American be the founder and president of a FIK recognized kendo association outside of the United States?
Either way I am interested in where he was located in the US.

Join Date: May 2017 · 17th June 2008, 06:09 PM

Originally posted by xvikingx View Post

Is he? Perhaps he's an Irishman who lived in the States and returned home.
If he is can an American be the founder and president of a FIK recognized kendo association outside of the United States?
Either way I am interested in where he was located in the US.

True, thats an assumption on my part, so apologies if that isn't the case.

The point being that since Mr Kirwin lived in the States I was interested to know what experiences or connections he had with the BKA that had made him so certain of not working with them.

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