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Reactions to 15 WKC in Novara

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  • Hahaha this is why I stepped away from these forums for so long. It's way too tempting to go on here and start bashing people especially when it comes to judging and reigi. I wonder if anyone here remembers the OG Kendo World Troublemakers? misterkurukuru, Inouye02, tenken etc. Those were the days.

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    • Originally posted by moocow65 View Post
      Hahaha this is why I stepped away from these forums for so long. It's way too tempting to go on here and start bashing people especially when it comes to judging and reigi. I wonder if anyone here remembers the OG Kendo World Troublemakers? misterkurukuru, Inouye02, tenken etc. Those were the days.

      Adult kyu 4 life! Ghetto kendo! What what!!

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      • But, I agree - we must practice rei in cyberspace, too.

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        • Originally posted by moocow65 View Post
          Hahaha this is why I stepped away from these forums for so long. It's way too tempting to go on here and start bashing people especially when it comes to judging and reigi. I wonder if anyone here remembers the OG Kendo World Troublemakers? misterkurukuru, Inouye02, tenken etc. Those were the days.
          BWAHAHAHAHA! I remember 'em... How can we forget.

          Is kurukuru still refusing to go for fifth dan?

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          • The tournament is what it is. With competition the possibility of controversy is always there. And with National pride at stake the emotions run a bit amok.

            Or you can do like the USA did, beat Japan. So with all the comments about the judging I have to say, meh.

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            • Originally posted by b8amack View Post
              It's the points which weren't called which seem to be the issue.
              Which ones are you referring to? The crowd bood over the Shodai kote hits, but it's pretty easy to see that Shodai's kote is right up against his doh. It's impossible to hit with monouchi when his kote is positioned like that. Another one that got a lot of boos was a men in the fourth match, which the videos plainly show hit nothing but shinai.

              The only one that I thought was somewhat questionable was Japan's kote in the second match. It looked a whole lot like knuckles to me.

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              • Actually there are 2 levels of accountability on site.. First level is to the court shunin who is on-site at the court. Then the second level is where all are ultimately responsible to the shinpan-cho.



                Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill View Post
                Accountable to who is the question. At the tournament level, shimpan are accountable to the shimpan-cho. It is his responsibility to ensure the quality of the refereeing. I think for something like WKC, they should be accountable to the shimpan-cho and also to whatever committee is responsible for referee selection and training.

                Accountable to the players? Not so much. I like it just the way it is with respect to the nearly non-existent appeal process. If something is wrong, they should be informed by the shimpan-cho or whoever so they can fix it for next time. I always tell people it's a different kettle of fish when you are holding the flags - very easy to criticize from the sidelines, easier still from the interweb.

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                • My original point was very different. The increasing bad behavior I see in shiai that I referee in often has nothing to do with the shinpan call and everything to do with showing poor sportsmanship and bad manners. Nothing to do with poor performance. Everything to do with violating the letter and spirit of article 16: "Shiai-sha are prohibited from insulting or acting offensively against shinpan-in or opponents" The Korean senpo did both. It was within the shinpan's authority to impose the penalties in described in Art. 18:
                  "Shia-sha who has committed Hnasoku prescribed in Articles 15 and 16 shall lose Shiaia and be ordered to retire from the Shiai area, wheras the opponent shall be given two points. The points or the status gained by the above loser shall be totally nullified"

                  They chose to be tolerant; Tagawa sensei, the shushin just walked over and said "Kamae!" and left it at that.

                  What I said is that senshu should be held accountable for their bad behavior in the shiai-jo.



                  Originally posted by b8amack View Post
                  So... kenshi should be accountable for horrible performance, but not shinpan. The two relate.

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                  • Originally posted by AlexM View Post
                    BWAHAHAHAHA! I remember 'em... How can we forget.

                    Is kurukuru still refusing to go for fifth dan?
                    Yes, kurukuru will not go for fifth dan and moocow will not go for fourth dan. Some things never change.

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                    • Originally posted by Curtis View Post
                      Or you can do like the USA did, beat Japan. So with all the comments about the judging I have to say, meh.
                      Who were the shinpan for those matches?

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                      • Originally posted by moocow65 View Post
                        Yes, kurukuru will not go for fifth dan and moocow will not go for fourth dan. Some things never change.
                        You guys are making the rest us look bad...

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                        • Had the shimpan manned up and enforced the rules and expectations around etiquette early on, maybe even booting out one of the worst offenders, most of this could have been solved.

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                          • Well, some thoughts since I haven't posted here in a while and happened to catch the ZNKR vids on youtube (though they looked like they were captured with a potato).

                            -With what we are always told about playing cleanly, the final was anything but. Lot of defensive kendo to me. The Japanese seemed to be playing not to lose. I also didn't sense any flow to the matches at all. Just hitting and blocking and sticking at tsubazeriai.

                            -No matter what happens in the match, don't be all bitter in the end and not bow to your opponent. Its just sportmanship. The crowd was especially raucous. I've personally never seen a crowd that reactive to a judging call.

                            -I'm not going to preach what is right or wrong with the judging, but in the final team match, I would've felt better if the shimpan called wakare at certain points in the match. For whatever reason, the Japanese kenshi were sticking to the korean kenshi and the shimpan were just letting them go as is..

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                            • Originally posted by Gessho View Post
                              Had the shimpan manned up and enforced the rules and expectations around etiquette early on, maybe even booting out one of the worst offenders, most of this could have been solved.
                              That's not as easy as it sounds. Like anything else, it is the things that are borderline that makes things hard to call. For example, what would you do if you were the shushin, the kenshi lost the match already, but refuse to return to kamae to announce the win? Remember the whole world is watching by the way...no pressure.

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                              • Originally posted by DCPan View Post
                                That's not as easy as it sounds. Like anything else, it is the things that are borderline that makes things hard to call. For example, what would you do if you were the shushin, the kenshi lost the match already, but refuse to return to kamae to announce the win? Remember the whole world is watching by the way...no pressure.
                                It's in the rules, insult to opponent or referee results in a 2-0 loss. If it was a one-point win this would be effectively penalize the team.

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